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post #91 of 156 Old 08-17-2012, 12:55 PM
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Wolfgang, thanks for the pointer to the GV forum. Lots of good info there.
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post #92 of 156 Old 08-18-2012, 02:13 AM - Thread Starter
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There has been an urgent request by a lot of 3D-Users to establish again a 3D-section for Edius use in the GV forum. However, up to now they state that it takes time for them to decided that. A little bit borring that answer, and so interesting 3D-threads tend to be splitted throughout the forum. frown.gif

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post #93 of 156 Old 08-18-2012, 02:31 PM
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SHould just take them a few minutes to add a 3D section.

3D items I own:

Sony 46" LX900 active 3D set

Sony HMZ-T3 (Cushion pads and light blocker mod)

LG LW6500 passive 3D set

PS3 & PS4

Sony BDP-S570 BD3D player

JVC-GS-TD1 (with Cyclopital base extender)

Fujifilm W3

Sony Alpha 55 (for 3D panoramic photos)

Quadcopter + Zenmuse and GoPro Hero 3 (Filming...

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post #94 of 156 Old 08-19-2012, 02:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Right. But the decision seems to take endless. Must be a quite complex process..

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post #95 of 156 Old 08-20-2012, 02:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Clever idea! I will try that next time too.

Have tested it - it works fine in Vegas too, and preview is improved in a nice way. You have to switch the preview to zoom up to the full window maybe, but it works fine.

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post #96 of 156 Old 08-20-2012, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang S. View Post

Well, one nice way to overcome that limitation in Edius is to change the project setttings from 1080 50p to 720 50p - for the purpose of editing. I see here a stabel playback with two paired 1080 50p clips, when I use the 720 50p settings. For editing, that is fine. For final rendering, I will change back the settings to 1080 50p again.

This works for 2D as well. I'm sure it does for any project. Edius tries to give you the best preview it can, but it slows down even on my i7 3930 if I try to work in 10 bit mode with lots of corrections. Switching to 8 bit works just fine, since it doesn't have to make all those real time calculations. As long as you switch to 10 bit for the final render, the results are the same.

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post #97 of 156 Old 08-21-2012, 12:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Sure, I would switch in the end (for the rendering) to 10 bit. But edit in 8 bit.

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post #98 of 156 Old 08-25-2012, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang S. View Post

Have tested it - it works fine in Vegas too, and preview is improved in a nice way. You have to switch the preview to zoom up to the full window maybe, but it works fine.

My results didn't match yours.
Finally tested it last night and I actually get better frame rate using 1080p24 than switching to 720p60 for edit. I tested it with both TD10 MVC and paired 1080 24 P clips on the timeline. I will stick to project properties at 1080p60 or 1080p24 for now. My GPU may have something to do with better performance.

In 1080p24 I am getting consistent 23.976 fps at Best half setting but at 1080p60 I get only 35-55 fps and it varies. This is only for single timeline clips. When I make a dissolve the frame rate goes down to about 10 fps. Setting everything to Preview auto, then my quality on the 32" vizio look awful
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post #99 of 156 Old 08-25-2012, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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But as far as I understand that, you did another test Don. You took 1080 24p, while I took 1080 50p. That makes a difference, since for 1080 50p you have to calculate 100 progressive frames a second from the two streams, with 1080 24p you have 48 progressive frames. Second difference - switching to 720 60p means that the system has to calculate new frames for the preview (from 24p to 60p) and to resize the footage on the fly. For me with 1080 50p to 720 50p no additional frames have to be calculated, but the footage has to be resized only.

A compareable test would be to take to 1080 60p clips, and switch to 720 60p in the project seetings. Since you have here 35-55 fps, here I think you will see a nice improvement to the 60p fps.



What I could do is to shoot in either in 1080 25p instead of 1080 50p - that would help in a nice way. Or I could stay with 1080 50p - it has a playback rate of 30-40 fps with two streams, not so worse and with the project settings at 720 50p it works fine too.

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post #100 of 156 Old 08-26-2012, 01:36 AM
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Actually I did test 1080p60 and it, too, was slower using project settings for 720p60. I will stick to using 1080p24 as that gets me the best playback regardless of the clips in the timeline. It also provides the best image quality on preview screen. Glad you find it an answer on your PAL clips but here it just
didn't work.
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post #101 of 156 Old 08-26-2012, 01:56 AM - Thread Starter
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What did not work? To use 1080 60p footage?

The advantage of 1080 50p is, that you are abel to generate every format you wish to have in the end. For 3D-BD, you can go to 720 50p if it is important to maintain the better movement-resolution. You can go to 1080 24p, since that is a change in speed by ~4% only. Or you stick with 1080 50p or make 1080 50i for a presentation with the stereoscopic player.

The disadvantage of 1080 50p is the higher performance required during editing, and that the data rate is splitted up to 50 fps on each stream, compared to 1080 25p. And that you need another render generation if you wish to go to 1080 24p.

If I would have 1080 24p on my TD10s available, it is a good solution to shoot in 24p, since you avoid the converstion to 24p for 3D-BD - all what you loose is the better movement resolution. But if you do not need that, then you will not care.

So it depends...

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post #102 of 156 Old 08-26-2012, 06:27 AM
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What didn't work is to set project to a 720p60 for improved timeline playback speed during editing. It made it worse. Did not matter whether I used clips with 1080 60i (TD10 native) or 1080 24p ( My NTSC paired clips) or 1080 60p Paired clips from either TD10 or NEX5n. I tested them all and all played worse that the settings I had been using which is 1080 23.976p in the project properties. This is the only setting where I do get Best Full single clip playback of the timeline. When two clips are present for a dissolve, the playback slows to about 15-18 fps which isn't bad.

Even if I edit TD-10 native clips ( 1080 60i) only on the timeline, I still get good playback with the Project properties set for 1080 24p.

If I shoot 1080 60p paired clips, and set project properties for 1080 60p (Double NTSC) the frame rate runs 35-55 fps but the playback looks tolerable to get a sense of timing. However, I only was able to achieve this when I unselected the box to match video to project render or properties in the project properties settings.

Note- I do not use stereoscopic player as a routine part of my editing.

Also, if I disable the GPU on the FirePro nothing plays back even close to a speed that I can watch.

When it comes to render output, I will stay with 1080 24p as that is compatible with my primary distribution which is Blu Ray or You Tube. I do not have anything that plays 1080 60p 3D ( except the PS3 but that is only for Game disks).


Wolfgang- it sounded like a good idea but it did not work here and I was disappointed. On 1080 60p clips, maybe the bottleneck is not the compute power but the thruput from the SSD. It's possible that I may have reached the upper limit for a single SSD and would need to run several in Raid 0 to achieve this. I'm not ready to consider adding more SSD drives now until the 1080 60p format becomes a standard. For now working in the BluRay standard of 24p is working well enough that I don't slow down the edit process like I used to before the FirePro card.

Anyway, this doesn't have anything to do with Edius so maybe we should leave it at that.
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post #103 of 156 Old 08-26-2012, 08:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Interesting - so we see a different either between 1080 50p and 1080 60p, or between your and mine system.

Whatever it is.

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post #104 of 156 Old 09-14-2012, 09:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang S. View Post

Yes, Edius is very very stable - rock solid. I can confirm that.
.....

I'm considering changing over to Edius (or adding to my NLEs) for 2D and 3D. Is the concensus still that Edius is stable? After Vegas 11, I'm looking forward to no unexpected errors that have no descriptions and no way to fix.
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post #105 of 156 Old 09-14-2012, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
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I'm considering changing over to Edius (or adding to my NLEs) for 2D and 3D. Is the concensus still that Edius is stable? After Vegas 11, I'm looking forward to no unexpected errors that have no descriptions and no way to fix.

Edius is the most stable editor I've ever used. I just finished a huge 2D project with it. It was a joy, especially after the nightmarish number of crashes I experienced while working in Vegas 11. Sony tech support was useless, when they finally bothered to respond after a couple of weeks of silence. Soon I'll be back in a big way into 3D editing, and I'll have more to report. To date, though, the 3D has been very stable as well.

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post #106 of 156 Old 09-14-2012, 10:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Edius is the most stable editor I've ever used. I just finished a huge 2D project with it. It was a joy, especially after the nightmarish number of crashes I experienced while working in Vegas 11. Sony tech support was useless, when they finally bothered to respond after a couple of weeks of silence. Soon I'll be back in a big way into 3D editing, and I'll have more to report. To date, though, the 3D has been very stable as well.

Thank you, Joe! Looks like I have some ordering to do this weekend (crossconvert). Price for crossconvert certainly seems reasonable.
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post #107 of 156 Old 09-15-2012, 08:59 PM
 
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...and ordered today. Hopefully my crossgrade box will be here this coming week.
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post #108 of 156 Old 09-15-2012, 09:52 PM
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I think you'll like it. IMO It's no harder or easier than Vegas or Premiere - just different - and now that I've adjusted to the interface, I've become a big fan. For JVC 3D camcorder users, it's a Godsend.

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post #109 of 156 Old 09-16-2012, 08:57 AM - Thread Starter
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One has to train himself to understand the product philosophie of Edius - what is different to Vegas and again different to CS. But if you are well-trained with one of those professional tools, you should be able to recognize fast how things are done in such a different NLE. You can use training courses if you wish - they are worth the money they take, since they bring one up to speed and save a lot of time, compared to learn everything by trial and error.

I like both Edius and (still even more) Vegas, but both are great tools.

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post #110 of 156 Old 09-18-2012, 01:22 AM
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Is there any way to convert the Edius 6.5 output to get Pro Res or Pro Res LT file?
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post #111 of 156 Old 10-19-2012, 05:11 PM - Thread Starter
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There is now an update to 6.52 available.

Seems to have AVCHD 3D included now.

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post #112 of 156 Old 10-19-2012, 11:05 PM
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Edius 6.5 recognized my JVC TD1's AVCHD 3D files weeks ago. I believe the support Grass Valley has added is in the form of AVCHD 3D file export. Edius now lets you export 3D video as 60i m2ts files (up to VBR at 26mbps max). In my limited testing, however, the usefulness is questionable. PowerDirector 11 sees the Edius m2ts files as 3D, and it allows you to write AVCHD 3D folders to an SDHC card from the timeline. These files can then be burned to a Blu-ray disc for playback on an AVCHD 3D compatible player (like my Panasonic 320). This works. Unfortunately, the video has nasty artifacts when there is any motion, or even a simple dissolve. PowerDirector 11 re-compresses the AVCHD 3D footage, and IMO the resulting image quality is unacceptable. What use is PD11's creation of such AVCHD 3D folders if the original quality is not maintained? I see exactly the same artifacting in a Sony TD10 video created by PD11 (sent to me by a fellow AVSer). Finally, unless I'm missing something, Edius can't burn these 60i m2ts 3D files to an AVCHD 3D disc. It burns only 2D discs.

The other test I did tonight was in Vegas. Unfortunately, Vegas sees the Edius 3D m2ts video as 2D only. It was exactly the same file that PD11 recognized as 3D in the first test. Once again, the AVCHD 3D "standard" seems to be anything but standard to these various software packages.

On the positive side, the quality of the Edius 3D m2ts file is very good. If only there were some way to play it! PowerDVD 12 plays back such 3D files at 24p, not 60i, so motion is choppy. And there doesn't seem to be any way of getting this AVCHD 3D video onto a disc without re-compression. If I'm mistaken about any of this, I'd love to hear it.

So, my workflow remains unchanged for 60i 3D projects: I edit in Edius and then export the video in a format Vegas understands (Canopus HQX, MPEG2, interlaced). I then let Vegas do the de-interlacing and create a standard 24p Blu-ray 3D iso. In my experience, Vegas is far superior to PowerDirector for de-interlacing. Going forward, I'll be shooting serious subject matter in 24p to eliminate the nightmarish problems caused by interlaced video. For some casual stuff, like family events, I may shoot in 60i for the better motion handling, but I'll use the free MediaBrowser software that comes with the JVC to edit such footage. It's ultra simple, but it doesn't re-compress the video at all. It lets you burn an AVCHD 3D disc whose 60i 3D video looks identical to the original footage (except for simple dissolves or titles, and these don't seem to cause any noticeable image degradation).

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post #113 of 156 Old 10-20-2012, 05:21 AM - Thread Starter
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I see it the same way - they have added support for the "AVCHD 3D Writter", where you can now export the 3D footage as 1080 50i/60i to SD-chip or memory stick.

I have also seen no possiblity to burn those files from Edius - but MAYBE that works if you use another burning tool to create the file structure. Up to now I failed to playback those file structures from my Sony TD10 but also from my Prodigy 3D - but I do not have an AVCHD 3D compatible player.

I do not even know how to recognize that a 3D-Blu-ray player is AVCHD 3D compatible. Fine, if it is the Panasonic DMP-BDT320 - but even there I have not found a technical specification that says so. I agree that this is the worst case - you have a new feature but you do not know what hardware is able to playbackt the footage. What a shame for the industry.

But Joe, maybe you could try to export such a structure with Edius to the harddisc. And then use a tool like CDBurnXP to generate an ISO file, that can be burned to BD. I think Edius does not support menus - but the footage should be fine also with 1080 50i/60i, even if they recompress it too.

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post #114 of 156 Old 10-20-2012, 07:06 AM
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I don't see a way to burn an AVCHD 3D file structure - to a hard drive folder, or an SD card, or a physical disc. All I can find is the ability to export a 60i 3D m2ts file. Any disc I've burned in Edius has been 2D only. Perhaps there is a way (using CDBurnXP) to create an AVCHD 3D folder structure using the file, as tsMuxer can for standard HD files. I'll explore that.

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post #115 of 156 Old 10-20-2012, 07:08 AM
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BTW, the Panasonic web site makes no mention of AVCHD 3D when talking about the 320 player. It does say it on the box, but there's nothing under specifications on their own site.

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post #116 of 156 Old 10-20-2012, 09:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, it is mentioned in the manual - that the 320 is able to playback AVCHD 3D from SD-Chip.

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post #117 of 156 Old 10-20-2012, 09:27 AM
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The Panasonic 320 can play back AVCHD 3D from a Blu-ray disc, too. I've verified that with discs burned in PowerDirector 11, as well as discs created with the JVC-supplied MediaBrowser software that comes with the TD1. This seems like it should be such a simple thing to do - to get standard AVCHD 3D files to a Blu-ray disc. The problem appears to be with the "standard." My Panasonic Z10000 manual says in a couple of different places that its AVCHD 3D files may not play back on all gear that claims AVCHD 3D compatibility.

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post #118 of 156 Old 10-20-2012, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes I undstood that. Joe, the AVCHD 3D (Writer) in Edius 6.52 is also able to render the 3D-file only. Joe, have you tested if the 320 is able to playback the file standalone?

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post #119 of 156 Old 10-20-2012, 12:07 PM
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I've tried that and had no luck so far.

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post #120 of 156 Old 10-21-2012, 02:37 AM - Thread Starter
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That is what I have expected. For the pure file, what would make a lot of sense if that can be played back, we still do not have a 3D-player. Maybe that can be done with the Sony 590. Here I have found at least some user reports, that the Sony 590 is able to playback native MVC-files from the TD20.

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