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post #1 of 156 Old 06-30-2012, 12:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Press release:
http://www.grassvalley.com/news/press/releases/view/1654-grass-valley-ships-latest-version-of-edius-with-cross-platform-codec-and-powerful-3d-content-editing-features


30 day trial:
http://www.grassvalley.com/support/downloads/demos


Features:
http://www.grassvalley.com/assets/media/5098/PRV-4185D-2_EDIUS_Pro_6_5.pdf


Reference manual:
http://cdn1.grassvalley.com/unsecure/DL/EDIUS_6.x/documentation/ENG/EDIUS65_Reference_Manual.pdf



As far as I see, there seems to be no MVC-encoder for 3D-Blu-ray. Have I overseen it?

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post #2 of 156 Old 06-30-2012, 02:11 PM
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Woo hoo, been dying waiting for this!! Ah, no MVC encoder for 3D bluray?!.. Not good..

3D items I own:

Sony 46" LX900 active 3D set

Sony HMZ-T3 (Cushion pads and light blocker mod)

LG LW6500 passive 3D set

PS3 & PS4

Sony BDP-S570 BD3D player

JVC-GS-TD1 (with Cyclopital base extender)

Fujifilm W3

Sony Alpha 55 (for 3D panoramic photos)

Quadcopter + Zenmuse and GoPro Hero 3 (Filming...

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post #3 of 156 Old 07-01-2012, 02:37 AM - Thread Starter
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I am still not sure about that. But beside that Edius is a great product.

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post #4 of 156 Old 07-01-2012, 03:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes it seems to be true - if User of a TD10 ask for the MVC export with Edius 6.5, the answer is that they should use sbs full or top-bottom full - and then use other tools for the MVC-3D-BD authoring. Tools like the PD10:

http://forum.grassvalley.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26745

http://forum.grassvalley.com/forum/showthread.php?p=184434#post184434

It is a shame that they have not build in an MVC-Encoder. mad.gif

I would tend to use Vegas Moviestudio HD Platinum for that, depends if one wishes to have menus or not with his 3D BD.

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post #5 of 156 Old 07-02-2012, 01:11 AM
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I'm glad you started this thread. If you hadn't, I would have. smile.gif

I've been working with Edius all evening. This is a tremendous development for me! I also noted over in the Edius Forums that they are doing away with the need for a USB dongle for activation and usage of the program. You can activate it on 2 computers. I'm anxious to compare my i7 3930 with the i7 2600k. I installed it on the 2600, which plays back a typical 3D timeline for me with barely a hesitation, even in places that would bring Vegas 11 to its knees, such as dissolves between MVC clips that have both color correction and stereoscopic adjustments applied. This system has a smallish 120 GB SSD system drive and a couple of RAID0 7200 rpm HDDs. The video card is nothing special - an nVidia 460 1 GB. But it's smooth as butter. I'm adding a couple of bigger SSDs to it tomorrow.

And I have another time saving development that's making 3D editing a much improved experience. This past week, I added an LG 47LM7600 passive 3D monitor to my edit room. Wow!!! By setting the Edius preview monitor to "Line Interleave," I see a 3D preview in the small window. When I double click and go to full screen, the whole screen becomes full color 3D without my having to do anything. The TV still thinks it's in 2D mode, but I get a fantastic looking 3D image by flipping down the passive polarized glasses. It's as though I'm watching the raw clips playing from PowerDVD 12, only smoother! The one downside to the process is that the polarized glasses make for a funky looking Edius interface. Every other line of the display is gone. But by flipping the glasses up and down, it's workable. And does it ever save time. I like to preview often, and this makes it painless compared to doing it with an active display. It's far superior to anaglyph or SbS previewing.

What a day this is for JVC users! No more second class citizenship.biggrin.gif I rendered some TD1 clips as dual stream Canopus HQX Fine 10 bit. Then I dropped them into Vegas for the Blu-ray 3D burn. With the 2600, the render time was about 1.5x real time. I expect that to be closer to real time for the i7 3930. And the output looks great!

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post #6 of 156 Old 07-02-2012, 01:34 AM
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Joe- How much drive space is required to install the Edius demo? I may give it a try but currently I only have 11Gb of space left on my SSD C: Drive. Been waiting for the 256 Gb OCZ V4's to come down in price.


Never mind- Got my answer from the specs-

Hard Disk
• 6 GB of hard disk space is required
for installation (including third-party
software)
• Drive with ATA100/7,200 RPM or
faster is necessary for video storage:
——Available HDD disc space should
be twice the size of the file to
be edited
——RAID-0 is recommended for HD
resolution editing
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post #7 of 156 Old 07-02-2012, 01:56 AM - Thread Starter
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I have not installed the testversion yet - Joe do you see any color issues when importing the Canopus HQX codec in the Vegas timeline? That is the important question if it allows us to use Vegas at least to generate the 3D-BDs or not. It was mentioned in the Grass Valley form that the PD10 does not work fine here with that codec.

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post #8 of 156 Old 07-02-2012, 07:33 AM
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Blu Ray rendering support seems to be for 720p only, Bravia. You'll probably be more interested in using a dual rendering of 2160 x 1920 24p Top/Bottom for export file for PD10 blu Ray anyway. Render PCM wav file for 5.1 audio for export to get DTS in PD10.

I like Joe's comment on playback speed.
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post #9 of 156 Old 07-02-2012, 01:39 PM
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Yep, you are correct Don smile.gif

Would have been nice though if they allowed menus for 3DBD's

3D items I own:

Sony 46" LX900 active 3D set

Sony HMZ-T3 (Cushion pads and light blocker mod)

LG LW6500 passive 3D set

PS3 & PS4

Sony BDP-S570 BD3D player

JVC-GS-TD1 (with Cyclopital base extender)

Fujifilm W3

Sony Alpha 55 (for 3D panoramic photos)

Quadcopter + Zenmuse and GoPro Hero 3 (Filming...

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post #10 of 156 Old 07-03-2012, 07:21 PM
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According to an Edius forum poster (see http://forum.grassvalley.com/forum/showpost.php?p=171641&postcount=18 ) :-
Quote:
Edius 3D DOES make real 3D Blu-ray content now. It is called L/R Dual Stream. It is an mvc file format. From there you need to use an authoring software.


I found I could export an mp4 file in what seemed to be 24p 1920x1080 h.264 MVC format, but Vegas would only recognise the audio stream. A software player (Arcsoft TotalMedia Theatre) could play the mp4 as 3D video, and audio.

Based on a quick play with the demo version, this Edius software seems very promising, though the price (which I haven't seen quoted yet but which I imagine could be in the vicinity of $1000) would be a stumbling block for some users. I like its ability to play a preview with minimal stuttering (to see the effects of edits immediately), and I like its "layouter" function for variable (animated) crop, zoom and pan along the timeline.
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post #11 of 156 Old 07-04-2012, 01:16 AM - Thread Starter
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That is an old posting - I would really like to know if there is an mvc encoder integrated or not.

It is clear that it should be possible to transfer the output to Vegas using a suitable codec and make then a 3D BD in Vegas - but I would like to know if that is possible in Edius 6.5 now too.

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post #12 of 156 Old 07-04-2012, 05:47 AM - Thread Starter
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I have the confirmation that there is no mvc encoder in Edius - from my dealer. However, since I run Edius as the second system, I have ordered the upgrade. Will see how it works.

The trial version is not the latest version available - seems to be one with some additional bugs.

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post #13 of 156 Old 07-04-2012, 06:21 AM
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I tried installing Edius and had nothing but problems.
After a while I was finally able to remove it I think but don't really know.
I ran the installer again and it seemed to go O.K.
When I try to launch the program, a tiny little unreadable box appears on the screen and then disappears.
I have a feeling that this has something to do with some form of draconian copy protection going on and I've had my fill.
I'm too upset right now to even think about trying this again. Perhaps I'll try it again on another system sometime.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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post #14 of 156 Old 07-04-2012, 06:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Frank, but you have interrupted the installation if I understood you right? No idea what happend when you did that. But there are also other first reports from user, who had problems with the installation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Here's my TD1 workflow:
Organize. It's the most important part, especially in a long project.
Drop the clips into Edius and tweak.
Export the finished video as a Canopus HQ or HQX, dual stream 60i 3D file. Experiment with different quality levels (such as standard, fine, superfine), to see which you like. Render small, challenging sections of the project so you can evaluate the results.
Drop this Edius file into Vegas 11. Let it do the de-interlacing and scaling and burn the Blu-ray 3D iso file.
The results will blow you away. biggrin.gif I'm stunned by how well my TD1 clips are holding up in this process.

Joe, well it is not so much my thread, but I think that a focused discussion makes sense. Thank you for the first expience with your workflow. I think the way you go here is quite good - the Canopus HQ codec is great. The HQX codec is for 10 bit, so most of us should work with the 8bit HQ codec. There is a white paper fo the codec: http://www.grassvalley.com/docs/WhitePapers/professional/GV-4097M_HQX_Whitepaper.pdf

Maybe it is a good idea to make the deinterlacing and resizing in Edius - at least the deinterlacer seems to be slightly better then the Vegas deinterlacer is.

Another workflow: maybe you can use the AVCHD converter, and convert the TD1 to the HQ codec - for editing them in Vegas. But that makes sense only for user who wish to edit in Vegas and not in Edius.

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post #15 of 156 Old 07-04-2012, 07:41 AM
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Could those of you who have worked with Vegas and Power Director before make a list that explains the advantage of using Edius 6.5 ( specifically for 3D editing) here that people can add to over time? I suggest taking the list I started below and copy and paste it into your post so a complete list can be constantly updated in the latest postings to this thread. It will help keep things from being scattered and difficult to find.

Here's an example of what I have summarized so far from Joe:
Pros-
1. Edius can import JVC TD1 video clips directly from the camcorder without any preprocessing.
2. Edius can play previews of your editing at normal speed from the timeline without stuttering and hesitations while others can't when viewing MVC 3D clips.


Cons-
1. There isn't a direct way to render and burn a Blu Ray 3D at 1080 24p x 1920 from the time line. Blu Ray is limited to 720 60p x 1280 for blu ray burn.
2. No Blu Ray menus, even simple ones.


Joe, please correct the above if I have any of it wrong, and add to it.

If we can, lets try to avoid items like price and work flow differences, like how you click on a clip to change a transition since these could be a pro or a con depending on the editor's viewpoint. Of course, if the price is the lowest of all 3D editors on the market, that may be worth mentioning.
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post #16 of 156 Old 07-04-2012, 08:08 AM
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I see that indeed no full definition 3D burning is available, as indicated in the instruction manual for the trial. The manual (at page 469) states that stereoscopic burning must be done with Mpeg2; which of course is not Mpeg4-MVC. I verified this today: you can export your timeline video as an isolated mp4 file in what appears to be an h.264 MVC format, but you cannot create a full resolution 3D Blu-ray disc from the timeline. (All I got was 2D.)


The 6.5 trial installed ok on my 64-bit Windows 7 pc. However it would fail at about the 80% mark when burning a Blu-ray from the timeline. The solution that worked for me was to uninstall Microsoft Security Esentials. (I found that answer at http://forum.grassvalley.com/forum/showpost.php?p=180804&postcount=9 ).
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post #17 of 156 Old 07-04-2012, 10:08 AM
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Sorry I'm behind. I thought I subscribed to this thread but discovered just now that I hadn't.

I still have a lot to learn about Edius. I think this thread will be a great place to share productivity tips as we discover them.

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post #18 of 156 Old 07-04-2012, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Could those of you who have worked with Vegas and Power Director before make a list that explains the advantage of using Edius 6.5 ( specifically for 3D editing) here that people can add to over time?

Yes that is a good idea. Will me take some time to contribute my part, I have ordered the upgrade today and will have it tomorrow or on Friday.

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post #19 of 156 Old 07-04-2012, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang S. View Post

Frank, but you have interrupted the installation if I understood you right? No idea what happend when you did that. But there are also other first reports from user, who had problems with the installation.
Joe, well it is not so much my thread, but I think that a focused discussion makes sense. Thank you for the first expience with your workflow. I think the way you go here is quite good - the Canopus HQ codec is great. The HQX codec is for 10 bit, so most of us should work with the 8bit HQ codec. There is a white paper fo the codec: http://www.grassvalley.com/docs/WhitePapers/professional/GV-4097M_HQX_Whitepaper.pdf
Maybe it is a good idea to make the deinterlacing and resizing in Edius - at least the deinterlacer seems to be slightly better then the Vegas deinterlacer is.
Another workflow: maybe you can use the AVCHD converter, and convert the TD1 to the HQ codec - for editing them in Vegas. But that makes sense only for user who wish to edit in Vegas and not in Edius.

Yes, it's a good idea to let both Vegas and Edius do the 24p conversion and pick the one that works best. One reason to create a 60i Canopus 3D export, though, is that eventually I'm hoping we'll have an AVCHD 2.0 workflow that will take the edited 3D 60i straight to a Blu-ray disc. That would eliminate the conversion loss to 24p. Although it wouldn't work in regular Blu-ray 3D players, I'd have the best looking 3D disc for my own archives. So, I'll create a Canopus file and store it on my server. The Canopus HQX Superfine codec is indistinguishable from the original footage, but the resulting files are huge. I'm going to experiment and try to find a compromise. Even with my big servers, I don't think I'd have enough space to store a lot of long video projects using it.

As for editing in Vegas with converted JVC clips from the Edius utility, you're right, I'd have no incentive to do that. There's simply no comparison between the smooth Edius workflow and the jerky playback I get in Vegas. Edius plays back my JVC 3D clips natively and beautifully. Sony has some catching up to do.

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post #20 of 156 Old 07-04-2012, 10:50 AM
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In the earlier public trial, Grass Valley included an MVC encoder with Edius. I exported 3D m2ts files a few times, but the results were lousy. That may well have been my fault, since I was new to the program and still struggling with all sorts of things. But I gave up and let Vegas do that from Canopus dual stream exports (usually allowing Edius to do the 60i to 24p conversions, too). Those results were infinitely superior. I've done it that way with this release, too, and the results in Vegas have been spectacular. I don't notice any color issues at all. As a matter of fact, the 24p Blu-ray 3D discs (burned to DVD and played back on a Sony 480 player) look stunning! I'm floored by the detail and color I see!

BTW, I discovered that the Sony 590 does not play back Blu-ray content authored to a DVD disc. It has to be a Blu-ray. I promptly returned the Sony and picked up a Samsung. It has no problem with 3D on a DVD. Of course, DVD is cheaper for doing quick tests - about 20 cents a disc.

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post #21 of 156 Old 07-04-2012, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Could those of you who have worked with Vegas and Power Director before make a list that explains the advantage of using Edius 6.5 ( specifically for 3D editing) here that people can add to over time? I suggest taking the list I started below and copy and paste it into your post so a complete list can be constantly updated in the latest postings to this thread. It will help keep things from being scattered and difficult to find.
Here's an example of what I have summarized so far from Joe:
Pros-
1. Edius can import JVC TD1 video clips directly from the camcorder without any preprocessing.
2. Edius can play previews of your editing at normal speed from the timeline without stuttering and hesitations while others can't when viewing MVC 3D clips.
Cons-
1. There isn't a direct way to render and burn a Blu Ray 3D at 1080 24p x 1920 from the time line. Blu Ray is limited to 720 60p x 1280 for blu ray burn.
2. No Blu Ray menus, even simple ones.

Joe, please correct the above if I have any of it wrong, and add to it.
If we can, lets try to avoid items like price and work flow differences, like how you click on a clip to change a transition since these could be a pro or a con depending on the editor's viewpoint. Of course, if the price is the lowest of all 3D editors on the market, that may be worth mentioning.

Good idea, Don. I don't like threads where you have to dig to find the gems. I think that's a pretty good summary for right now, but I haven't done much with Blu-ray burning in Edius, so I can't speak to that. It works so well in Vegas 11 that I'm not worried about it. The Edius forums discuss such issues and are a good place to get answers to basic questions. Grass Valley moderators chime in frequently.

The bottom line is that Edius legitimizes the JVC format, and it's a joy to use. That's not to say that it will work as well on every system out there. I've already seen that it won't be as smooth on a Core i5 with 8 GB of RAM and an nVidia 450 GPU. It plays MVC cleanly, but it hesitates with dissolves and corrections. Hopefully, we'll establish a baseline system for smooth editing. My sense (based on only two days, of course) is that Edius works just about as well with native JVC clips on my Core i5 750 as Vegas does with converted JVC clips on my Core i7 3930 system that has a more powerful GPU (nVidia 560 2 GB). That is, it plays haltingly when you start adding dissolves and 3D adjustments. It's disturbing enough to disrupt how I like to work. Not so with Edius on that same i7 3930 system (or the i7 2600k system, for that matter).

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post #22 of 156 Old 07-04-2012, 11:28 AM
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BTW, that Core i7 2600k system is built around a CPU I picked up for under $200 in a sale at Micro Center and a Gigabyte Z68MA-D2H-B3 motherboard I got for $68 in another sale. I was using the mobo for a HTPC, but because I had a lot of parts lying around I decided to build a cheap backup 3D editing system and re-purposed the mobo. The system has an nVidia 460 video card and everything is running at stock speeds. The whole thing probably set me back a little more than $800 - less if you consider that I re-used old parts, including an older SSD and 3x 500 GB HDDs. The drives are RAID0 striped.

I do notice that when I play an MVC clip with a title that it hesitates the first time it plays back from the timeline. From that point on, it plays fine. I'm sure Edius is doing a lot in the background to keep things moving smoothly.

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post #23 of 156 Old 07-04-2012, 11:33 AM
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Of course you could render a particularly complex section of the timeline if you were having trouble with smooth playback on a slower system. But even on a modest i7 system, I don't see someone needing to do that.

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post #24 of 156 Old 07-04-2012, 03:15 PM
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Joe, using the JVC files in Edius are you using the same settings as posted before long ago, or did you find some new settings with better results when you render?

3D items I own:

Sony 46" LX900 active 3D set

Sony HMZ-T3 (Cushion pads and light blocker mod)

LG LW6500 passive 3D set

PS3 & PS4

Sony BDP-S570 BD3D player

JVC-GS-TD1 (with Cyclopital base extender)

Fujifilm W3

Sony Alpha 55 (for 3D panoramic photos)

Quadcopter + Zenmuse and GoPro Hero 3 (Filming...

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post #25 of 156 Old 07-04-2012, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bravia3D View Post

Joe, using the JVC files in Edius are you using the same settings as posted before long ago, or did you find some new settings with better results when you render?

Hmmm. I don't think I've changed any basic workflow settings for the JVC files, but I'm not sure I posted the details. Here's what I use when I launch Edius:

For "Project file" select

Project name: My Project Title
Folder: choose the folder where you want the project to reside

Check "Customize" and hit "OK."

Video Preset: HD 1920x1080 59.94i
Audio Preset: 48kHz/8ch

"Advanced" Drop Down Menu:

Stereoscopic Editing: Enable

Setup:

Render format: Canopus HQ Standard.

Resampling method: Lanczos 2

So far I've left other settings at their defaults. The 60i JVC clips play back just fine on my systems with these settings.

It's only been two days, so I haven't experimented much with export codecs. Here's how you set that:

Go to File>Export>Print to file... (or F11)

In the left column, pick the file type: AVI>Canopus HQ Fine or Standard. I've used Canopus HQX Superfine but that uses tons of space on the drive. I'd suggest you try HQ Fine or Standard (because that's what I'll do next) to see if it maintains enough image quality. I have lots of experimenting to do to find a good balance of file size and quality.

Check "Enable Conversion" if you want Edius to do the de-interlacing and scaling instead of Vegas:

Select "Stereoscopic processing: L/R Dual Stream."

Select the "Advanced" drop down menu.

Check "Change Video Format."

Select HD 1920x1080 23.98p

Click "Export."

Select where you want the file to be saved., give it a descriptive name and hit "Save."

It will render as a single file with left/right streams in the Canopus HQ xxx codec.

When it's finished, drop it into Vegas and create the Blu-ray 3D disc. That's it. My results were stellar!

If you don't want Edius to do the 60i to 24p conversion, don't check the "Enable Conversion" box. The export format will use your project settings. You want to edit in interlaced, because it will look smoother, but you can export in any format you want.

This is not a refined work flow. It anyone comes up with better settings, let us know. I haven't had much of a chance to try different things.

Joe Clark

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post #26 of 156 Old 07-04-2012, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

... I think that's a pretty good summary for right now, but I haven't done much with Blu-ray burning in Edius, so I can't speak to that. It works so well in Vegas 11 that I'm not worried about it. The Edius forums discuss such issues and are a good place to get answers to basic questions. Grass Valley moderators chime in frequently.
Yes the Edius forums are the natural place for some of these questions. As for Bluray burning from the timeline, I found this works ok in 2D for 1920x1080p24 and chapters will be listed (if you place markers on the timeline) in a basic Blu-ray menu style.
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post #27 of 156 Old 07-04-2012, 04:08 PM
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Thanks Joe! I'll fool around with that and try some other settings as well.

3D items I own:

Sony 46" LX900 active 3D set

Sony HMZ-T3 (Cushion pads and light blocker mod)

LG LW6500 passive 3D set

PS3 & PS4

Sony BDP-S570 BD3D player

JVC-GS-TD1 (with Cyclopital base extender)

Fujifilm W3

Sony Alpha 55 (for 3D panoramic photos)

Quadcopter + Zenmuse and GoPro Hero 3 (Filming...

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post #28 of 156 Old 07-04-2012, 04:24 PM
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Here's an export option I'm going to try:

AVCHD>AVCHD Exporter Plug-in. This can be set up to create separate left and right m2ts files, as high as 17 mbps each. I seem to recall getting bad results with this in the public trial, but I may be mis-remembering. biggrin.gif If it works, it has the advantage of creating very small files for Vegas to render. They're going to be tiny compared to the Canopus versions. Renders are much longer, but Vegas should have to less to do. This could be an option if you don't have much drive space.

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post #29 of 156 Old 07-04-2012, 04:42 PM
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Vegas chokes on those two AVCHD files. It crashes at about 90% of the way through the render.

More tomorrow. I was up until 5:30 this morning playing with Edius, and I'm beat.

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post #30 of 156 Old 07-04-2012, 04:56 PM
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I wanna try to find a setting that is close to what the JVC shows plugged into the HDMI and can be imported to Vegas and burned to a disc with little image loss. I doubt it's possible though. My biggest problem ever is converting to 24p gets me slow motion kinda when cars drive by and stuttering.

3D items I own:

Sony 46" LX900 active 3D set

Sony HMZ-T3 (Cushion pads and light blocker mod)

LG LW6500 passive 3D set

PS3 & PS4

Sony BDP-S570 BD3D player

JVC-GS-TD1 (with Cyclopital base extender)

Fujifilm W3

Sony Alpha 55 (for 3D panoramic photos)

Quadcopter + Zenmuse and GoPro Hero 3 (Filming...

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