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post #1 of 26 Old 08-27-2012, 06:25 AM - Thread Starter
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I have started to explore Magix Pro X4 a litte bit more. Two reasons for that:
- it is another s3D editing tool
- it offers the possibility to build a 3D-Blu-ray with menus.

Genrally spoken, it is a young product - what means that it has potential for improvement, even if I think that it is a great product today too.

The 3D-BD generation suffers from an error in the Mainconcept MVC encoder, since the encoding breaks down a lot of time. Here Magix waits for an update from its supplier Mainconcept.

https://support2.magix.com/customer/de/node/187968

Beside that, I have been successfull to generate a first 3D-BD with menus. The menus are 2D only, what means that your 3D HDTV will have to switch between 2D and 3D during presenation - what seems to work fine for the first time you do that, but I have seen some issues when going back from the video to the menu - where you switch back from 3D to 2D: here my 3D-HDTV shows some flickering, what does not go away any more (until I stop the 3D-BD).

But beside that I see a product with some potential, that can become even better.

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post #2 of 26 Old 08-28-2012, 12:30 AM
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Hello,
I also tested Magix Pro X4 and am very satisfied with the quality of Blu-ray 3D format created, MVC encoding has some problems but the result was excellent.smile.gif

By cons I have not managed to create menus correct:mad:. The menu pages are created but when I select one of the videos, such as the number 3, the menu all the other videos are played one after the other. I wish I could play the videos one by one independently of each other.

Do you have an idea of ​​the parameters used to obtain a real menu?

I apologize for my English, this is a Google translation.

Bests regards
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post #3 of 26 Old 08-28-2012, 02:22 AM - Thread Starter
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I am not sure if you can generate such a menu, where the end of a sequence results in a jump back in the menu. That would require that you can define end-actions, and I have not seen that end-actions are available with the authoring function. So I assume that this is not possible.

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post #4 of 26 Old 08-28-2012, 06:08 AM
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In Cyberlink's Power Director, you can get the option to play a chapter and then return to the original scene selection menu. In Playback Options, it is playback mode #3 on the list. The conventional playback of starting at the beginning and then playing the rest of the disk to the end is playback mode #1 , mode #2 is to select a start point at a chapter and play through to the end.
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post #5 of 26 Old 08-28-2012, 09:53 AM
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Hello,

Ok, I use also Power Director 10 but I have try to compare the Blu-ray 3D created by PD10 and by Magix Pro X 4 in MVC format : The Blu-ray 3D make Magix Pro X 4 is a better, very hight quality !!!!

For this I need to use authoring with Magix X4.

It is possible that the future Magix MX 2013 offer authoring and possibility to make Bluray 3D in MVC format...I hope this possibility.

Jacques from France
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post #6 of 26 Old 08-28-2012, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Jacques,

I have been successful to author one test-3D-BD with Pro X4. Yes, quality seems to be nice - similar to what I know from Vegas.

But I do not know what Magix will offer in MX 2013 really. But I am not sure if they will over MVC-based 3D-Blu-ray authoring, given the fact that they have significant troubles to cure the identfied weaknesses in the MVC-encoder in Pro X4.

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post #7 of 26 Old 08-28-2012, 08:59 PM
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Wolfgang-

What technical advantages do you see for 3D BD authoring of Magix over PD10? I just authored a menu driven of my Bryce Canyon in 1080 24p and it looks same quality as my original. I rendered the video as a TB Full for import to PD10 and used the default video with DTS 5.1 audio in PD10. I wonder what Magix does that is better?
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post #8 of 26 Old 08-28-2012, 11:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I am not sure if there is a technical adavantage at all. There has been opinions that the PD10 generates structures that are not really 3D-BDs - even if I have never been able to understand where the differences are. The quaility seems to be fine in Pro X4 - if it works at all. For the PD10 it is tough to use interlaced footage that you deinterlace. A number of customers have complained about that.

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post #9 of 26 Old 08-29-2012, 08:46 AM
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Thanks for your assessment. I won't bother with playing with it then.

I am really pleased with everything about PD10 for what I use it for. The menu designer could be a little easier to use but I'm struggling through it to a complete project now. The stability in rendering is better than Vegas Pro and the PQ looks to be the same. Audio with DTS is superior dynamics to a Vegas iso using DD5.1. For a low cost product that operates only at BD 1.0 license it is quite nice and my only limitation now seems to be my own limited ability to create. More I use it the better I get.
Remember, I still do all my editing in Vegas Pro and render to TB Full with a 50,000 / 20,000 VBR video and separate PCM 5.1 file as a PD10 entry point.


So, with that said, I won't be spending any time with Magix. I am encouraged that it too offers BD menus, however. The more these companies add capability, makes it more pressure for Sony CS to do the same with Vegas Pro some day. Wishful thinking! smile.gif
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post #10 of 26 Old 08-30-2012, 01:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Sure, if it does not add value for you, why then spend some time to test it?

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post #11 of 26 Old 08-31-2012, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

.......... I still do all my editing in Vegas Pro and render to TB Full with a 50,000 / 20,000 VBR video and separate PCM 5.1 file as a PD10 entry point.......

Don, I just got the PD10. I successfully imported L/R files from Edius 6.5 into it, and want to burn 3DBD. If you don't mind, could you jot down the workflow on how to pair the files and at least get started on 3DBD creation? I am lazy to spend half a day doing trial and error, every one of these has unique user interface, and I would like to shortcut the learning curve a little.

Thanks.

Wolfgang, sorry for intruding on your thread.
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post #12 of 26 Old 08-31-2012, 05:26 PM - Thread Starter
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I think we have tested and described the workflow some time ago, how to use the PD10 to generate 3D-BDs with footage from other NLEs. For Edius and the PD10 take care - the PD10 seems to have issues if you use the Canopus HQX codec within the PD10, at least to some user comments. And I think there is still not possibility to pair two streams in the PD10 - so you have to stick to sbs-half or use a codec that can use sbs-full or (as Don prefers) top-bottom-full. But this discussion is in another thread in this forum, I am too lazy to search for it.

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post #13 of 26 Old 08-31-2012, 08:12 PM
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Thanks, I am just recently looking into BD,s using streaming for a long time, so I don't know what is around the forum. Thanks for the heads up. I think that you actually answered my question. i have a limited need for 3DBD, needing to generate some for an upcoming Film Festival and for distribution to some of my contacts. I am mainly interested in quality, what would you recommend, that doesn't cost thousands of dollars? I hear that the PD 10 BW is very limited. Vegas is limited to 25Mbps, is there anything better? What is the Magix quality like?
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post #14 of 26 Old 09-01-2012, 02:40 AM - Thread Starter
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The quality of the Magix MVC encoder looks good, but you are also limited even to lower data rates then in Vegas. And at least in my tests, the encoder failed a lot of times to complete the rendering - an issue that is well-known by Magix and they wait for an update from Mainconcept for their encoder. Funny, that update should be ready since July, but in reallity it is stil not available.

True, in Vegas there is a limitation to 25 mbps - but the Sony AVC/MVC encoder has a good quality. Given the issues with the Mainconcept encoder in Magix, I would recommend to foreget the menus - and perform the 3D-BD authoring with Vegas or Vegas Moviestudio.

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post #15 of 26 Old 09-01-2012, 03:58 AM
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Hello,
I acquired Magix Pro X 4.
My experience allows me to say that the quality of the encoding MVC for creating 3D Bluray is greater than those obtained with PD 10 and Vegas 11.0. Definition images offer a very good quality:), encoding MVC with Pro X 4 did not have a problem.

The menu design is very easy and it is definitely a plus compared to Vegas.

Magix Pro X automatically recognizes the videos from the camera JVC GS TD 1, but the best results are obtained with AVCHD, the MVC does not give good results:mad:.
cordially
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post #16 of 26 Old 09-01-2012, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
The menu design is very easy and it is definitely a plus compared to Vegas.

Vegas has no menu design.

How do you think the menu design in Pro X 4 compares to PD10's menu design?

In my opinion, because PD10 uses many predesigned templates, it is really easy to use to create menus for 3D BD. I feel that when you try to design your own menus it gets confusing at times trying to find where to set things up. I have no experience with Pro X 4 so I am interested to learn.

As far as the encoder is concerned, Comparing 3D BD from PD10 to camera originals, I have no problem with the image quality using 1080 x 1920 24p and DTS audio 5.1 output. It plays as good as any commercial 3D BD here. I have seen others complain when working in PAL format, however. It is important to note these differences when expressing an opinion based on experience.
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post #17 of 26 Old 09-01-2012, 10:04 AM
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Don,
I really like PowerDirector and I was delighted by this software ... except that I put a lot of time to master the design of menus, I had to use the services of a French friend sometimes involved in this group .

Pro X 4 it was easier to design pages with several options to choose films with several chapters themselves with multiple choice options in movie playback. I do not use the templates provided by Pro X 4, only a very simple ... but very effective.

I actually forgot that I was working in PAL, with mandatory conversion of 25 fps in 24 i / s for creating Bluray MVC.

This is my experience, sorry for the Google translate

Jacques,from France
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post #18 of 26 Old 09-01-2012, 11:10 AM
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Don, is your source 24p? I have problem, since I capture at 29.97 and 59.94 fps. The judder is bad, no matter what I try.

Does anyone have an experience in best quality conversion from 60Hz to 50Hz material? What is your recommendation?
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post #19 of 26 Old 09-01-2012, 01:23 PM
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Merci, Jacques.

Maybe I should consider Pro X 4 for menu design. I'm doing much better now with PD10 menus but I did spend 3 days in a learning curve. Lots of reading experience from other users and looking at training videos helped. It is mostly learning where things are. PD 10 has a great support group fortunately.

_______________
Quote:
Don, is your source 24p? I have problem, since I capture at 29.97 and 59.94 fps. The judder is bad, no matter what I try.

I have equipment that I can capture in 24P and 60p as well as the 29.97i and 59.94i Most of my work with wide stereo base is done with 24p ( 23.976) I'm just now experimenting with 60p. I use twin NEX5n's and twin TD10's for 60p. For single camcorders I capture with the TD10 which is 29.97i and the Panasonic 3D1.

I have no more problems with judder with any of these frame rates. This was a serious problem when I used Vegas Pro 10e but since Vegas v11 it is no longer an issue. I mix formats all the time on the timeline and have no concern over it. But my output is generally 24p to match with 3D BD standards.

Also, understand that I make my evaluations on judder using a 240 Hz TV system but on a 60 Hz monitor I do still see some judder. However, I also see this same amount of judder with commercial 3D and 2D movies on this monitor. So, this is a problem with the refresh rate of 60Hz and not the videos I make.

I use:
Vizio 32" for secondary monitor in edit suite. In Home theater I have a Sony VPL VW90ES projector.
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post #20 of 26 Old 11-09-2012, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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There is a new patch for Magix Pro X4:

https://support2.magix.com/customer/de/node/222150

Thje issues with the MVC encoder should be solved!

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post #21 of 26 Old 11-09-2012, 12:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang S. View Post

There is a new patch for Magix Pro X4:
https://support2.magix.com/customer/de/node/222150
Thje issues with the MVC encoder should be solved!

Ah, "Intermittent crashes during MVC encode fixed"

Now if we can get 3D menus out of it (although not a requirement but you're right that it would keep the projector from switching formats).
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post #22 of 26 Old 11-09-2012, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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No, you cannot get 3D menus out of it. I think it will allow 2D menus only.

What is fixed here is that the MVC-encoder crashed a lot of times during encoding the footage to MVC.

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post #23 of 26 Old 11-11-2012, 02:58 AM
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Still the problem persist with the new update for the mvc encoder. Also the 3dbd file created with it is not able to play properly with powerdvd 12 especially with 3d mode on. Although the quality of the encoder is great but it suffers with compatability.
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post #24 of 26 Old 11-11-2012, 05:23 AM - Thread Starter
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But that can be an issue of PowerDVD, or an issue of the MVC-Encoder. Magix has build that for 3D-BDs - have you tested your output with a 3D-BD-Player?

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post #25 of 26 Old 11-13-2012, 05:22 AM
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Thankyou for ur valuable feedback as the issue is with powerdvd 12 playing back incorrectly but the breaking of the file is their, u r bound to make .iso file than u r successful but previously this was happening before the new update. File producing has got issue. i mean m2ts. but .iso no issue with mvc encoder.
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post #26 of 26 Old 11-13-2012, 06:05 AM
 
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I've been successful in creating a 2D menu structure with 3D videos using Magix Pro X4 (at least the demo version). The rought workflow is to create the 24Hz stereoscopic pairs in Edius Pro 6.5, output with the Canopus HDX encoder. Take that output into Magix Pro X4. Create a project for each video and then generate the menus. Create the ISO with MVC option enabled in Magix Pro X4. Iso is then burned with Imgburn.

I'm using the demo version which limits the videos to 3 minutes each but they are good 3D HD. The picture quality is on the order of those created by Sony Vegas Pro but I have not yet had a chance to do a side-by-side comparison. I believe the videos are higher PQ than the default settings in PD11, but I'm trying to alter the PD11 encoding settings (test is burning as I write this).

My biggest problems with Magix Pro X4 are that 1) it generates 2D menus which means you lose around 10 seconds of the beginning of the movie as the projector reconfigures; 2) the audio options are really poor - particularly in the U.S. where AAC isn't used (no PCM option apparently available); and 3) non-intuitive menu interface. Combine all of those and that there is an alternative available and I think (for me) that Magix Pro X4 is a non-starter.

Hopefully Wolfgang's hint will be released at the end of the month. But, until then, I'll use PD11. Magix Pro X4 is just not ready for prime time yet although I've not had an encoding problems since going over to 64-bit Windows 7 last weekend. I could never get a successful encode in 32-bit Windows 7 with Magix Pro X4 and the large Canopus HD or Canopus HDX files.

For those curious the Magix Pro X4 demo program is available at their website. You get 7 days of trial which can be expanded to 30 days of trial by filling out the registration form. The only restriction with the demo version is that all videos are limited to up to 3 minutes long.
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