Problem projecting 3D image stills taken with a Panasonic 3D1. - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 13 Old 11-04-2012, 08:42 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
threed123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Troy, MI, USA
Posts: 2,471
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 35
I thought I'd start a new thread rather than posting this on the 3D1 forum as it probably applies other cameras producing MPO files as well. I visited Germany a couple of weeks ago and took hundreds of 3D shots on my Panasonic 3D1. In the past, I would project them through my Panny 3D bluray player through my Optoma HD3300 onto a new 159" Dalite Highpower. I didn't pay much attention in the past to resolution and overall sharpness as most of these were indoor shots between 10-20 feet and appeared very good in 3D. Now, I'm looking at my Germany 3D images and I have to say, anything more than 25 feet away on outdoor images is not sharp when projected in 3D, yet when looking at the same image in 2D, it's very sharp. I'm trying to compare to 3D blu-ray movies of landscapes that appear tack sharp through the same bluray player. Does this have something to do with how MPO files are projected? I'm trying, now, to realign all the images through Stereomaker, but it takes about 5 minutes to for each image and I'm still only seeing a slight improvement. Is there something I'm missing. I've got to say, I'm very disappointed. These are well-lighted, sharp images when viewed in 2D.
threed123 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 Old 11-05-2012, 05:32 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 10,756
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 105
I have not looked at my MPO files in virgin form on my Sony Projector but I have used hundreds of mpo's, in a Vegas Pro timeline, animated for a slight zoom movement in my videos and the result is a good match in quality to my twin camera 1080 24p video. If you wish, I could upload a couple of those MPO's I have approved and you could compare to see if it's your camera, playback or that rendering an MPO to 1080 24p on a 3D BluRay fixes everything. Let me know.
Don Landis is offline  
post #3 of 13 Old 11-05-2012, 06:30 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
threed123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Troy, MI, USA
Posts: 2,471
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Yes, Don, I would appreciate a couple of MPOs for comparison. I spent a few hours yesterday, realigning some that had lots of distant detail, and I'm coming to the conclusion that the lenses are slightly mismatched with barrel distortion causing slight mismatch in the size of detail when projected on a such a big screen as mine. This mismatch causes a slight bluriness. Realigning in Steremaker does improve the image, but I also need to sharpen 30%. I guess I'm stuck with technology that is still evolving.
threed123 is online now  
post #4 of 13 Old 11-15-2012, 04:00 AM
Member
 
dpaul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have been experiencing the same blurriness with the Panasonic 3D1. No ability to achieve focus on subject matter beyond about 6 feet. When you think of it, however, this is how the eye sees, is it not? Except that the eye automatically re-focuses as your attention moves to a different distance, whereas the MPO is fixed to a specific focal distance.

The same blurring on both my Panasonic 3D 60" plasma and the Epson 3d projector.

The accompanying JPGs are good - no blurring, so the lens are OK in themselves.

The 3D video has the same blurring problem. OK within about 5-6 feet - blurred beyond that.

When watching 3D SBS MKV files - no unusual blurring at all (Titanic, Avatar etc.)

Very disappointing. Surprised there has not been more feedback from 3D1 users (are there any?).

The 3D1 user manuals throw no light on this situation.
dpaul is offline  
post #5 of 13 Old 11-15-2012, 07:36 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
threed123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Troy, MI, USA
Posts: 2,471
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 35
This is maddening for me. The MPOs are not exactly twice the size of the JPG, but close, so the information must be there. The JPGs appear to be in focus to infinity ok, and I have lots of scenes that were focused to infinity, so I'm not sure about the 6 foot focus idea, but you are right when projected, anything close is fine. Could be because the objects are so much bigger that the detail is simply easier to see but not necessarily sharper. I can see why the videos would be blurry as each eye image is compressed when taken and decrompressed when projected, but the MPOs are not. Maybe has something to do with how MPOs are split and shown by the software used in the device. I am experimenting with splitting the images in Stereomaker and realigning them and sharpening them with some success, but now I get some sharp areas and some blurry areas. So I've arrived at the conclusion that the lenses are not properly matched and the barrel characteristics of each are ever so slightly off, so that true alignment cannot be achieved. To see what I mean, use a program like Stereomaker to create an anaglyph, and note how the objects align across the image. You will see that some align while others do not. Since I take most pics at wide-angle, that probably creates the most distortion.

I'll keep experimenting until I find a reasonable solution.
threed123 is online now  
post #6 of 13 Old 11-17-2012, 12:44 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 10,756
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 105
Did you ever test the images I uploaded for you?

I've been out of the loop on 3D work the past month but try to check in here once in awhile. Just to clarify, I have only looked at the MPO's created with Pany 3D1 as rendered to 1080 24p inside my projects. They all look sharp on my projector.
Don Landis is offline  
post #7 of 13 Old 11-18-2012, 07:50 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
threed123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Troy, MI, USA
Posts: 2,471
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Haven't, but will tomorrow. I've been out of town. I now have some Fuji examples as well, and have some realigned 3D1s to try. Will be interesting if rendered 1080/24 fixes the problem...thanks Don.
threed123 is online now  
post #8 of 13 Old 11-20-2012, 06:59 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
threed123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Troy, MI, USA
Posts: 2,471
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Had a chance to view and compare MPOs taken with a Fuji W3 and 3D1 last night. I also compared some images from the 3D1 that were realigned in Stereomaker, and also 4 from Don Landis. I have a 159" High Power screen and an Optoma HD3300 projector. This is how they looked to me, and were mostly landscape shots:

3D1 MPOs from Don Landis: Appeared more evenly sharp throughout.

3D1 MPOs from my camera: Some good, some not--especially those with heavy contrast changes.

3D1 MPOs from my camera--realigned in Stereomaker: Improved somewhat, but still issues.

3D1 from Fuji W3: Better than the 3D1, but because of the wide eye separation, didn't project well--will have to fix the separation or my eyes will turn out.

I've concluded that the lenses are slightly mismatched on my 3D1. It's probably a production issue where lenses are typically passed through a machine to match and pass within certain limits, so you might get a good set or an average set.
threed123 is online now  
post #9 of 13 Old 11-23-2012, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
threed123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Troy, MI, USA
Posts: 2,471
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Another update. Spent an evening looking at just 2D jpgs from the 3D1 and noticed the same lack of detail focus. I examined the screen closely and found that pixels between objects were blended and not distinct, so now I'm thinking it's the scaling engine on the Panasonic bluray player. Bluray is coming out perfectly in focus and lots of detail, while the jpgs and 3D and somewhat mushy, so I might have to try something different to view them properly.
threed123 is online now  
post #10 of 13 Old 12-03-2012, 06:47 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
threed123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Troy, MI, USA
Posts: 2,471
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Another update. After much consideration, I bought a Darbee to enhance the sharpness and contrast of the 3D images. It does help and make the images tolerable. I also noticed I have slight double vision in my right eye, which might be the crux of my issue with not getting good detail in the more distant objects in the images. Perhaps the issue is more with my projector and my eyes than with the 3D1.
threed123 is online now  
post #11 of 13 Old 12-03-2012, 07:33 PM
Member
 
dpaul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
threed123 - not your projector and not your eyes. I am using 60" Samsung plasma and Epson 6010 projector - different setup from yours - and I continue getting what appear to be out of focus MPOs with my 3D1. Foreground OK - background very blurry.
dpaul is offline  
post #12 of 13 Old 12-04-2012, 05:59 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
threed123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Troy, MI, USA
Posts: 2,471
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpaul View Post

threed123 - not your projector and not your eyes. I am using 60" Samsung plasma and Epson 6010 projector - different setup from yours - and I continue getting what appear to be out of focus MPOs with my 3D1. Foreground OK - background very blurry.

Hmm. My problem is not that severe. My issue is that most distant objects do not resolve properly. As I've said, I now see improvement and think it might be my projector. Have you used a program like Stereomaker to split the MPOs and look at them individually to see if there are issues at the MPO level. Also, you can use Stereomaker to do a realignment, and see how far off it is, or view the realigned image and see if that changes anything. When you project an image, look at objects in the distance and see how they horizontally align. The right/left images should be at most 2.5 inches apart, and aligned horizontally. Also, when looking at the screen through your 3D shutter glasses, hold your hand over each eye and view the individual image and see if it has the same blurriness.
threed123 is online now  
post #13 of 13 Old 12-04-2012, 06:18 AM
Member
 
dpaul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks, threed123. It is with background distant objects that I am having the blurring problem I'll try your suggestion of viewing left eye and right eye separately to see if that helps diagnose the problem.
dpaul is offline  
Reply 3D Source Components

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off