Thoughts on Possible 3D Camera and editing Setup - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 10 Old 03-03-2013, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Hunter Mackenzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Hi Everyone I have enjoyed all of the threads on 3D I would like to get your thoughts on this possible setup I'm thinking of getting

I am going to get the new Sony 3D Camcorder the HDR-TD30

Planning on getting a New top of the line Imac running Parallels or Bootcamp to run Vegas Studio Platinum 12 or Visual effects Suite 2

and then attaching a Blu ray Burner to do Blu Ray Discs

Would this be enough to do some moderate editing in 3D? also has anyone picked up the new Sony I went to the Sony store near me and they still did not have it in yet

Thanks for any insight

Hunter
Hunter Mackenzie is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 10 Old 03-06-2013, 08:27 AM
AVS Special Member
 
TrickMcKaha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,016
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Most of us edit on a PC because the 3D video drivers are all there. While I'm sure you can do about anything on an imac with bootstrap that you can do with a PC, not many of us would know how to get 3D video out of the imac.

Also, editing 3D video is a little easier if you have two monitors, one a passive 3D display to monitor your video as you edit. The PC video cards, software, and drivers make that fairly easy. If you do go with the imac, please post your experience once you have it up and running.
TrickMcKaha is offline  
post #3 of 10 Old 03-07-2013, 02:12 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Joseph Clark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 10,409
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Liked: 130
Yes, unless someone is heavily invested in the Mac world, it's just easier, cheaper and more flexible to stay with a PC for editing 3D video.

Joe Clark

Joseph Clark is offline  
post #4 of 10 Old 03-09-2013, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Hunter Mackenzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Does the group have any suggestions of a good PC Setup? Such as processors, graphics card...and brand of PC?
Hunter Mackenzie is offline  
post #5 of 10 Old 03-20-2013, 09:43 AM
AVS Special Member
 
TrickMcKaha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,016
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
I like IBuyPower for a good price on a good PC. You will want a quad core processor, something like an Intel i5, and a lot of ram, something like 16 Gigs. Most any modern gaming video card will give plenty of power for 3D video editing - you will not need a $400 video card. My experience has been that the best video card I can find for about $200 is right for my needs in any given year.

Some people will steer you away from spinning hard drives, recommending SSD drives because they are faster, but I recommend you just get a few 3 Terrabyte drives and distribute your video footage so that no one drive is accessing two files at once. You fill up drives fast when making your own 3D video. I personally have not found SSD drives to be big enough to be very useful to me.

As I noted before, a second video monitor capable of passive 3D, such as a Visio 3D display, will help your editing go easy on your eyes. You will want two monitors almost for sure when you are doing any serious work.

Most of us like to use Sony Vegas Pro for the 3D editing, as it has a lot of capability. Their less expensive version is fine for starting in 3D editing, but you would probably outgrow it.

You'll want a Blu-Ray burner, of course.
TrickMcKaha is offline  
post #6 of 10 Old 03-20-2013, 09:48 AM
AVS Special Member
 
TrickMcKaha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,016
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Oh, and you may want a pair of musician quality powered speaker monitors for your audio editing. Asus is fairly good, available at Guitar Center or Musician's Friend.
TrickMcKaha is offline  
post #7 of 10 Old 03-20-2013, 11:55 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Joseph Clark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 10,409
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Liked: 130
I'm in that other camp. I like SSDs for 3D editing. They've dropped in price dramatically and they're really fast, which is something you'll need for 3D. Even 3 RAID0 striped 7200 HDDs feel a bit "sluggish" compared to a high quality SSD. MVC video doesn't take up a lot of space, so even a long form project usually fits on a single SSD (256GB or, better, 512GB). Once you're finished, store the footage on archive grade Blu-ray discs and/or a server, then move on to the next project. I like having a fast 7200 rpm hard drive on my editing system, but eventually the material gets moved to my Unraid server. 3D editing is very demanding of a computer, so I use a 6-core i7 3930 CPU and 16GB of fast RAM. It's important to try to eliminate as many bottlenecks as possible. In a year or two, the hardware should catch up and we shouldn't have to worry about the issues that MVC video editing creates for us now.

Joe Clark

Joseph Clark is offline  
post #8 of 10 Old 03-20-2013, 01:58 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 10,941
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 155 Post(s)
Liked: 129
Quote:
Some people will steer you away from spinning hard drives, recommending SSD drives because they are faster, but I recommend you just get a few 3 Terrabyte drives and distribute your video footage so that no one drive is accessing two files at once. You fill up drives fast when making your own 3D video. I personally have not found SSD drives to be big enough to be very useful to me.

TrickMcKaha- While I agree with your other suggestions I have to say the above is not at all practical and in fact just completely wrong from an editing efficiency as well as performance.

It is nearly impossible to manage your footage so that your A-B roll will always put A on one hard drive and B on a second hard Drive. In addition, once you have your clips placed that way then you still can't to an A-B-B-A edit with dissolves anyway. The process of managing clips to always have subsequent content in an edit always on different hard drives will get highly restrictive so that your story is edited based on hardware management for performance rather than content. You'll be spending all your time making sub clips from master clips that you can place.

The performance on data throughput of an SSD is roughly 4-5 times the data throughput of the fastest HD so even if you do manage to play the musical HD game it still will be twice to 2.5 times slower than the single SSD. Of course you could always spend the money for multiple HD in raid config but this could require 4-5 drives in RAID0 to achieve that. Hardly practical considering the cost.

The argument that you "need" 3-4 TB of disk space for most projects is just not true. My longest projects that end up being 2 hours long in finished editing that hold 15 hours of raw video clips, music and graphics occupy at the most 120Gb of space on my work drive, a 256Gb SSD Vertex 4. It is rare that I build huge projects like that and my average project folder size is usually 50Gb in size for all the files.
What you should do is plan a second 128 Gb SSD to take care of your temp tiles for rendering, or even use a HD for this purpose. There is little gained from using an SSD for temp files during the rendering but it does help. The main advantage of the SSD is for your source video to be able to achieve adequate clip feed rate to play the timeline in real time. This allows you to see the story as it will p[lay and make quicker decisions on how to edit your story. But you still need a fast CPU and GPU as well.

The 3D editing process with Sony Vegas depends on very fast processors and graphics processor. I use an i7-950 here with 12 Gb of ram which seems adequate. I also use an Ati Firepro V8800.

Basically, I can view two full streams of MVC video at 24 fps 1080 x 1920 on my 3D vizio with dissolves with hardly a glitch at the dissolves. 1080 60p is only achieved with single clips.

If you really want speed, then the latest OCZ dual channel SSD card with built in dual controller is the way to go but these are expensive, about as expensive as the high end Firepro card.

I also have two 3Tb HDD in my system but these are for archiving finished projects and library archives I may use in other projects. I would always make a copy of that footage onto my work drive for editing so it is accessed at the fastest data rate.

Finally, you can also increase your work efficiency by using an SSD in your C-drive. This speeds up reboots and when rendering speeds up Vegas Pro application access during rendering and other editing functions. I would not have the OS and applications, Project work drives, and temp files on the same SSD. In this final configuration, I have three SSD 256 Gb drives for each of these functions. Each of these drives are the OCZ Vertex 4 series which are the fastest data throughput on the market and only exceeded by their dual channel system which feeds video at double the vertex 4 rate. ( 550 Mbs vs. 1Gbs )

If you want to add a good tool to analyze your bottlenecks during rendering or playback, check out www.Moo0.com they have some great analytical tools to do this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Don Landis
Don Landis is online now  
post #9 of 10 Old 03-21-2013, 12:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
TrickMcKaha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,016
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Don,

Yes, I do agree with what you wrote. I was thinking of how I edit when I use my GoPro HDHero cameras with separate Left view and right view files, which are then paired in Vegas. I generally place all my left clips on one drive, my right clips on another drive, and I render to a third drive. I try also to have my operating system and Vegas application files on another drive, so that makes four. When I edit my Sony TD-10 clips, I still generally keep all those clips on one drive and then render to a second, neither of those sharing the drive with the operating system.

I wasn't considering trying to separate clips sequentially so as to make crossfades faster. That would be cumbersome, to put the most polite word to it. I see now that I was too vague in referring to one hard drive "not accessing" two files at a time. I mainly meant not reading and writing on the same hard drive simultaneously, and secondarily, separating left view and right view whenever possible.

I like to keep all my original footage on my drives even long after I complete a project, as archives, so I have several terabytes of video stored. It looks like you do that, too. I just edit from those same files, while you copy them to your super fast SSD drives during editing. I'm reluctant to move the original footage after I complete a project, in case I want to edit it some more later. I want Vegas to know exactly where to look for the clips if I reopen the project, say, a year later. I suppose if you always load your video clips onto fast SSD drives in the same folder paths, Vegas could find them no problem. My method doesn't require as much discipline, but I'm sure your rig works faster during editing.

I'll summarize by saying that Don's rig is faster and smoother in every way, while the kind I recommended would be the least expensive (that I consider) to be adequate for the task.
TrickMcKaha is offline  
post #10 of 10 Old 03-21-2013, 04:10 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 10,941
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 155 Post(s)
Liked: 129
Most of the storage in my computer is for library stuff, graphics, and library music ready to audition for a project. I never source from those drives except to copy the necessary files to my work drive. The work drive project folders are transferred to a storage archive drive, a slower low cost drive that installs as an IDE drive X I have over 50 drives on the shelf with my life's work on them. When I attach one of those drives it always comes up as drive X. In the old days with SD TV shows, I would use them as work drives but when I went to HD I needed faster sata drives and transferred the entire folder to the work drive. With 3D it's the same but I need SSD speed for the work drive. I think you have it right except I think you are wasting time keeping left and right eye files on separate drives. Once you do that you are making the rest of the project management more complicated to go back and open an old project.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Don Landis
Don Landis is online now  
Reply 3D Source Components

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off