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post #1 of 55 Old 01-22-2014, 05:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, the year 2014 will be the "4K year" very likely. The question is, what will that mean for the s3D community?

First, I expect from 4K most of all the "better HD". Maybe we will see that the HD-output from those cameras will be at a significant better quality level - in terms of real resolution.

Second - 4K will blow up the quality standards. The X-AVC and even the consumer format X-AVCS will tend to bring 10bit 4:2:2 in some cases - and the small Sony AX100 will not bring that for 4K, but the question will be what it will bring for HD. At least we know that it will deliver 1080 50p/60p for HD - what will be recorded with 50 Mbps. Togehter with the larger chip that could be a nice improvement.

For the s3D-community maybe we will have the possiblity to combine two Sony AX100 units, using still our lanc oriented s3D-controllers. Sure, we will need an interface, but the AX100 seems to have the required interfaced integrated. Together with units like the ste-fra lance and a beam splitter rig or a side-by-side rig we should be able to record s3D in 4K 24p or 1080 24p too.

The Sony Z100 is delivered with Genlock too - what would allow a professionel 4K s3D recording too. Sure that is a expensive camera and the cash requirement is a nightmare - but it is another possiblity.

Beside the fact that 4K-HDTVs will be able to deliver the "better" s3D too.

What do you think?

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post #2 of 55 Old 01-22-2014, 04:52 PM
 
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So, will we live in a world of upscaled 1080i and 1080p for 5 to 10 years while the cable and satellite companies catch up? And where is the 4k bluray and all the 4k media needed? 4k seems to be following the same trend that 3D followed--build it and they will come and the movie studios will create--but they don't because it's too expensive. Don't get me wrong, but we've got a big cart before a little horse coming at us.

And I love this stuff and wouldn't part with my 3D projector unless the house blew up and will get a 4K 3D projector as soon as they get cheap enough.

That said, I have to share my plight with several friends and family.

1. My neighbor Joe has bought three 42" screens in the past 5 years. The first was a plasma, followed by an LCD, followed by a 3D LCD. He still watches most of his TV channels below 100--ie.in 4:3 stretched to 16:9 non hidef. I keep telling him he needs to go to the high-def channels, but he says he can't remember where they are so he sticks to the lower channels and they are okay. I asked him about why he got a 3D TV and he said, he wanted to get the latest technology, but he also said 3D makes him dizzy so he doesn't watch it.

2. My nephew who always has the latest technology, also watches mostly 4:3 stretched to 16:9. I keep showing him hi-def, and he says he doesn't like it because people don't look right. I said that's because the 4:3 stretched to 16:9 makes people fatter--he thinks they look better that way.

3. My best friend from high school, now in his late 60s, still has the 25" color TV he got back in the early 80s and it's good enough for him.

4. My brother was given a new 40" LCD TV by his sons and he hates it. He just can't figure out how it works half the time, and he only watches the non-hidef channels too.

5. My good friend who watches a lot of sports invited my over for a college game. He has three TVs in the house. Two were on non hi-def channels, while he accidently stumbled on the hi-def channel of the game on the third, but he couldn't figure out how he did it. I tried to explain to him about 1080p and hi-def. He just didn't get it.

Accept for Joe, who tried 3D, the others have never seen a 3D movie and didn't know 3D TVs even existed.

And the list goes on. To support 4K or any new technology, it's going to take a complete revolution in TV cable and satellite technology before it takes off, if ever. You can already see how 3D TVs are dying a slow death. Just sayin'. rolleyes.gif

I don't mean to sound like a troll, but just getting frustrated will all this great technology coming at us and major companies stopping production of 3D cameras and TVs, and pushing 4K technology without a clear vision of content or usability.
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post #3 of 55 Old 01-22-2014, 08:38 PM
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As most here know I attend both CES and NAB each year. They are entirely different shows. I learn lots of what's in the plans at these shows from the people behind our passion.

Last April I questioned the future of new 3D cameras and both Sony and Panasonic basically said s3D camcorders for the ENG class and prosumer will be on standby for about 2-3 years as the focus will be 2D 4K cameras and recording technology. Then new 3D camcorders with 4K recording and various frame rate options will be offered at the prosumer and broadcast s3D class. In the meantime 4K 3D production will progress with twin cameras like most movie production is done today. It's the ENG class of live event 3D recording that will be done with existing HD 1080 24p 3D cams and upconverted to the 4K masters that won't see new equipment for a few years until the 4K lineup gets thoroughly established.

Face it. Consumer 3D production is not real big, anywhere in the world. Most of us who work in this can be counted on two hands. It just requires so much more to properly shoot and edit that the average consumer videographer and event videographer is not going to take the time nor spend the money to achieve. Personally, I'm not at all concerned if the rest of the world never catches on to producing good 3D productions as amateurs. This is my hobby and I have no intention in making money at it. After 20 years doing TV advertising, I enjoy working without demands and deadlines. But there will always be others who do enjoy making 3d and it's just fun having a place to meet and share experiences.

Mostly the consumer will be happy with a little 3D camcorder that can play from the camcorder to his 3D TV with a cable and no editing. Just the clips in a basic presentation. Sony did an excellent job in the TD10 with this including adding a music sound track, all in the camcorder. But few will go that far to learn it. So, aside from the very few consumers who will buy a 3D camcorder, most will just have a TV and 3D BluRay Player.

4K at the consumer level will be a tough sell on a mass scale because many are still not doing real HD. By the time the public gets BluRay as much as they do DVD now, the production industry will be 100% 4K production. Doing a TV show in HD 1080i or 720p then will be like doing a TV show in 4:3 Beta SP today. I have two full Broadcast Beta SP dockables, I couldn't sell for $300 today. They sit on the shelf in the Portabrace bags wasting away. That will be the fate of HDCAM in the year 2020 when everything will be 4K. But for the consumer, most video will be shot with their phones and few if any will still use camcorders except the serious hobbiests.

That's my prediction.
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post #4 of 55 Old 01-23-2014, 05:36 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

4K at the consumer level will be a tough sell on a mass scale because many are still not doing real HD.

And a lot of people don't like HFR movies because of motion sickness or "it's too real," or more like watching live video. It's not just adapting to a sharper image, but user acceptance that a 4K+ image matches what they expect from a movie experience. A lot of movie buffs on this board argue that if it isn't a traditional 24p movie, it isn't a true movie experience. At my local theater, they had a hard time getting people to watch the Hobbit HFR experience. Only a few were sitting in that venue, while the "normal" 3D experience was packed.
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post #5 of 55 Old 01-23-2014, 08:10 AM
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Agree that 24 fps is a true traditional surreal world of film. But the topic is what these new camcorders will offer and the prediction is it will be user selectable. If you want to shoot at 60p, 48p or 24p you just select it in the menu. Then blame the director of photography, not the camera. smile.gif

As far as consumer popularity goes, maybe it was the added cost of the IMAX 3D 48fps on the ticket when they had a choice to pay less for the same movie. I went to a real IMAX theater to see it and the theater was packed. I'm fortunate we have World Golf Village IMAX here close which is one of the largest and they only charge $10. The smaller IMAX in a multiplex charges $14 and goes up for evening shows. My guess is most people judge by ticket price, not 24 vs 48 fps.
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post #6 of 55 Old 01-26-2014, 01:22 PM
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I made this point somewhere in another thread:

When people can walk through a Best Buy and see bright, glasses-free HD 3D without any effort whatsoever, it has a chance of catching on. Back in 2010, when 3D displays were first released, I had to ask the manager of a Best Buy to set up a 3D display so I could see it. At that point, only 2 people at a time could watch because they had only two pairs of glasses out for the demo. That basic experience remains unchanged to this day. People have to seek out 3D demos, and those who just happen to walk by aren't going to be inclined to stop. You're not going to win many converts that way. I believe that people not inclined to go looking for 3D will be much more likely to stop and look at a great glasses-free 3D television. That's why I'm so excited at the prospect of the Ultra-D glasses-free technology that could be in stores in 2014.

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post #7 of 55 Old 01-27-2014, 07:33 PM
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Here, when 3D first appeared at Best Buy, we had several demo centers. As I recall, Samsung had 2, Sony had 2, Panasonic had 1 and I don't recall LG had any at first. Today they have several demo centers with 3D glasses in pedestals all with two per screen. There are 4 TV's at one location with glasses, in another location there are two using smaller screens and then in the Home Theater room they have two with couches and glasses. Today, here they have the Sony and LG 4K 3D demos going. I've visited 3 stores in town and they are all the same.

But the bad thing they did is with the 3D Blu Rays. These are now scattered among the 2D titles and difficult to find unless you are seeking a specific title that you know is in 3D. If you just want to browse the 3D to see what they have, you can't do that now.

If the Ultra D system is competitively priced, I can see it attracting sales. From my experience, the popouts will reach out and grab you as you walk by. Again, as long as the price doesn't scare people away.
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post #8 of 55 Old 01-27-2014, 08:10 PM
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Yes, BB has those displays here, too. But often the glasses don't work (the batteries are dead or they don't sync properly), or there's no 3D content to watch, or there's supposed to be 3D content but it isn't working properly, or the content is lousy, or low resolution. And no matter what, you still have to put on the glasses. It's just not easy and natural. My theory is that a good auto-stereoscopic display is going to attract a lot of attention, especially if there's good 3D content playing on it.

I saw a Hisense (Chinese) 4K display in a Costco today - a grand and a half for a 55". No 3D at all, of course, but if they can price a 55" 2D 4K set for that, hopefully a 55" auto-stereo set won't be that much more. Even at two grand, it would be a very attractive price. Image quality was impossible to assess with the demo material they had playing, and I doubt seriously that it was HDMI 2.0. smile.gif

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post #9 of 55 Old 01-28-2014, 06:20 AM
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At CES- the HiSense booth was huge, almost same sq ft as Sharp and Toshiba. They took over the Microsoft space since Microsoft no longer has a booth. So, they had lots of displays to see. I would say you can't tell whether HiSense is good or bad because they have good and bad models. I would not buy on name here like a Sony or Samsung. You better be happy with the demo of the model you plan to own.
When I bought my 32" Vizio I took my own 3D disk and glasses in to evaluate. Nobody bothered me. (Walmart) When satisfied. I went home and ordered online to pick up at the store since the online had a discount at the time.
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post #10 of 55 Old 01-28-2014, 11:17 AM
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I have people like you and Frank to thank for using a passive 3D display while editing. At first, I wasn't impressed, because the seating position and screen size made for some serious ghosting (my eyes were too high up from screen center). When they let me trade up to the larger 47" LG, and once I re-positioned things, it was a revelation how much easier and more enjoyable a large passive display made 3D editing. I got mine (LG LM7600) at Best Buy for a great price because of an on-line price match. I'd gladly remodel my edit suite again to accommodate a 55" 4K glasses-free monitor. If I can get it for under $2,000, I'll consider myself lucky. Of course, a lot of this is predicated on having a windowed 3D program monitor on that display, plus the other necessary support hardware to drive a 4K 3D display. Those things raise big issues that may not have quick answers, but the enthusiastic reports from you and others at CES give me hope that such solutions aren't too far off into the future. Meanwhile, editing 3D on the LG passive set is a whole world better than using active tech.

Wishing for a display that has no trouble with windowed 3D makes me think about Frank talking about that so often a couple of years back. smile.gif I hope he's doing well.

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post #11 of 55 Old 01-28-2014, 12:40 PM
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Yeah, I was thinking of him yesterday as I was looking at my 3D printing footage of the hardware at CES. He seems to pop in here when we mention his name. smile.gif

On the Ultra D, I question how good it might be to display the small numbers on a timeline. I have my doubts. There were no demos showing a 2D windows desktop, much less an application program like Vegas Pro.

I recall Frank saying to do windows in 3D wile the rest of the screen is in 2D you need a checkerboard screen system. There was a 3rd Glasses Free screen company from Italy that demoed such a panel. I have some tech literature from them but haven't had the time to read it. The company name is Sisvel Technology. They have a website if you want to get the jump on my learning about it. The downside is they are not a manufacturer but want to license their technology. In that respect they are a ways behind Ultra D marketing. There demo looked identical in PQ to the Ultra D panel. Almost like it was a knock off.
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post #12 of 55 Old 01-28-2014, 02:21 PM
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I routinely edit with a small 3D program window within the larger Edius 2D editing interface on my LG. It works when I resize the program monitor up to about 20-25% of full screen. Above that, the little program monitor does a weird horizontal split that screws up the 3D effect. Going to full screen 3D playback preview (or back to regular view when you're finished) is as simple as double clicking the Edius program monitor. When I do that (Edius' real-time preview being as good as it is), it's almost like watching a Blu-ray 3D as I edit. It makes editing that much easier and more fun. It's The downside is that I have to move the glasses up and down from my forehead (upside down, no less smile.gif ) to see things in 3D, because the 2D interface loses half its vertical resolution when you use the glasses. It makes text and other interface details too hard to see. What I'm hoping for in terms of Ultra-D is that StreamTV can work with the makers of Edius, Premiere, Vegas, etc. to implement 3D windows within the interface that will allow for a quarter size auto-stereo screen within the 2D interface that won't compromise legibility. Full screen might not be much of a problem to implement, but a resizable, re-positionable 3D program window will probably require more cooperation with the NLE manufacturers - if it's even feasible.

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post #13 of 55 Old 01-28-2014, 05:11 PM
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Joe- I learned a long time ago not to try to do everything on one screen when it comes to video editing. I mean I started dual monitors back in the early 90's. Presently, I use a Dell 1920x1200 24" 2D monitor at my workstation. I sit about 18" and here is where I do all the software. My Vizio 3D 32" is off to my left and about 4-5 ft. This means when I preview, I just have to turn my head and I see 3D as it will look when played from a disk. I went to my optician and had my reading glasses set for best focus at 2 - 5 ft. So even tiny 2 pt text is perfectly in focus. Then I use clip on polarized 3D glasses. I never have to adjust them. I wear them for full 8 hours of editing session without fatigue and actually forget they are there. Because the Dell 24" monitor is straight LCD 2D with excellent picture quality, The polar lenses have no change effect except make the screen white just a tad darker. In the Vegas preview window, I keep the 3D set to 2D display since all I need there is layout for PIP, graphics, and other superimposed elements. Once the 2D layout looks right. I glance at the Vizio in 3D and set the depth to avoid any occlusions.

As for real time playback, most of the time I can't achieve that with my system even with the very high end graphics card because my videos have lots of stuff going on that eats up GPU and CPU cycles. I can make it realtime almost if I set to preview mode but then the Vizio screen goes soft and that annoys me. So, I generally stay in "Best" quality mode and if I need to check transitions, I'll step through them or use the Ram drive prerenderd segment of just a portion of the timeline. But, playing a long timeline like a 3D BD just isn't going to happen here with Vegas. I understand Edius is better. Now if I restrict my editing to single layer with little going on, the timeline plays at full speed. Something like a carcam video has 2 layers of 3D clips plus a 2 layers of 2D clips with resizing, masking and background transparency of generated media all at the same time during a transition. Any wonder the video stutters to 4 fps during the transition. Combine that with a dialog and music track and the SSD can barely keep up with seek and transfer.

What I have done is learn to work with the limits of this hardware. Now looking to the future of 4K 3D production. That, I'm sure will require a whole paradigm shift in the complete editing suite. It isn't just about a new monitor and new camcorder.
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post #14 of 55 Old 01-28-2014, 06:53 PM
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biggrin.gif I have 3 pairs of glasses: regular bifocals for everyday use; single lens distance-only glasses good for watching the projector; and, a pair for video editing that focus best at about 4'.

I worked with dual screens for a long time (including a 1920x1200 24" Dell smile.gif ), but I actually prefer a single, large screen now. I'm able to navigate more easily and the flow works better for me. That's one reason I'm intrigued by the idea of a large 4K panel for 3D editing. Imagine a 47-55" 4K display with a 1920x1080 auto-stereo program window of about 24" or more. That would leave 3x 1920x1080 for all the remaining 2D interface elements, and you could switch to full screen to see how the video would look on a typical 3DTV. I'm just trying to get the good folks at StreamTV to think about it. Any number of technical limitations I'm not aware of might make it impossible. If it doesn't happen, I'm already pretty happy with how I work.

Edius' preview capabilities and the LG passive display make for a pretty comfortable editing experience. Edius' smoother real-time playback makes it better for me than Vegas or Premiere, and it's the reason I've stayed with Edius as my preferred editing platform. I wish it could be Vegas, because that would allow me to do virtually everything in one program, but it just isn't smooth enough. Of course, Edius can bog down, too, but that's far more likely to happen in Vegas.

4K 3D editing is going to be a whole other kettle of fish. But given that 3 years ago I would have bet we wouldn't be close to where we are today with 3D editing, I don't rule anything out.

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post #15 of 55 Old 01-29-2014, 07:21 AM
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Joe- in Edius preview, does the picture quality suffer from what you would see with a full blu ray version? The larger the screen the worse it gets for preview picture quality. With traditional HD 2D I can tolerate the preview mode as the image is small inside of Vegas window, but on the 32" Vizio even the 2D preview mode is very soft. Therefore MY standard for previewing is the Best full screen quality in Vegas.

I never even tried the Edius product because you and Wolfgang stated it fell short on some features, compared to Vegas. That, and I just don't want to jump ship and begin a learning curve with a new software. When I sit down to edit in Vegas, I feel quite powerful and can do things easily. The plugin support is so powerful, I'd hate to give that up as well.
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post #16 of 55 Old 01-29-2014, 07:43 AM
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Edius' preview doesn't give you full Blu-ray 3D quality (not 100% as smooth). Neither does the LG display (you lose half the vertical resolution and the jaggies are more troublesome at 4-5' away). But it's much, much better than what I see in Vegas. I prefer Vegas' audio support, although I have lots to learn about using audio in Edius, so it's not a fair comparison for me to make. I've really struggled in Edius, while multi-channel audio is more straightforward and intuitive for me in Vegas. Edius also doesn't allow you to generate a Blu-ray 3D disc, which is a big pain. On the plus side, Edius works with more file types, including my JVC files, in the timeline. That alone makes it a better choice for me. Since you have Sony and Panasonic 3D camcorders, it would make far less sense for you to consider making a shift to Edius. Since I got into 3D editing, I went from Adobe Premiere to Vegas to Edius. I would have preferred not to have to do that. smile.gif

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post #17 of 55 Old 01-29-2014, 08:20 AM
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Well you know my position on JVC cameras from the start. So we'll leave it at that, but just to remind you, I totally respect your decision to make JVC primary and search for the edit tool to support it. I still shoot more hours on the TD10 than any other camera however, I'm quickly moving to more of my serious documentary stuff with the Z10k because of it's image quality using the 6 chip imager as opposed to two chip TD-10. For a day at Disney in the crowds- TD10. To shoot a parks documentary- The Z10k.

On another topic- I am discovering some 24 fps limitations with pans, in my most recent shoots with the Z10k. The results with post slomo are devastating compared to similar scenes with the TD10 at the higher frame rate. Evaluation was all done in final rendered Blu Ray 24 fps. In the future with the Z10k, I must learn to do fewer pans and keep the pans I do even slower. The wide angle Cyclopital adapter will really help with this endeavor.
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post #18 of 55 Old 01-29-2014, 11:16 AM
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Yes, I hate 24p with a purple passion. It's a hot mess of an antiquated frame rate standard - it produces beautiful static shots but any movement is crippled, especially with a small aperture/high shutter speed. I either do extremely slow pans in 3D or swish pans with a slow shutter speed, so everything gets blurred. It's a debilitating way to have to work. I prefer the look of 60i for just about everything. 4K at 60p should look great. Let's hope they do a better job of creating a 4K/60p/3D standard - one that doesn't shackle us like the current "standard" does.

I understand the anti-JVC sentiments. It's a company with a checkered history and it lacks the hardware/software ecosystem that Sony has. The university where I taught wouldn't even consider buying JVC because of a poor track record 3 or 4 decades earlier. Before the TD1, I'd never owned a JVC. I'd owned Canon camcorders, with a smattering of Sony thrown in. Frankly, I would have bought the Sony TD10, but the JVC TD1 came out first. The Sony certainly would have made things less challenging, and I probably never would have left Vegas. When you're out shooting, you sometimes run into pros who are interested in what you're using. I was asked several times, "Is that a Sony?" I'd respond, "No, it's a JVC." Once in a while I'd get that "Oh, you poor dumb bastard." look. biggrin.gif None of that bothers me, because I know I lucked into a real diamond in the rough. My JVCs not only produce great 3D images, they're like little tanks. I've mentioned to you before that I've shot for hours on end in extremes of temperature - from under 20 to over 105, even in heavy snow, without a problem. The glass is good, the hardware is solid and the high data rate (34mbps) makes for superior images. They image quality and hardware flexibility don't match my Panasonic Z10k in some important ways, but they've proven a lot more reliable. I've used the JVCs 50x more than the Panasonic, but it's the Panasonic that's going into the shop for repair.

Of course, none of that matters now, because there's virtually no choice when someone asks you which 3D camcorder you'd recommend. I think the ONLY consumer choice left is Sony. Isn't that right, Wolfgang?

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post #19 of 55 Old 01-29-2014, 12:15 PM
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Or, Panasonic as these are still available according to the Panasonic rep at CES.

I had very bad luck with my old JVC. It was in the 80's and was a VHS-C camcorder. I took it out in the humidity from the AC crew cabin on the boat and the condensate in it fried the thing leaving me with no camcorder for my project for the week in the Bahamas. I contacted JVC repair in Miami and they declined to repait, sending it back and charging me a service charge for the evaluation. I bought a second one since that camcorder fit my U/W housing. I was extremely careful to warm the camcorder up with a heat lamp before taking it into the humidity and used it for 3 years. Locally several shooters had similar issues with JVC repair but using broadcast level cameras, were able to get repairs.

Considering the excellent 60i conversion to 24p we get now with rendering to Blu Ray, I may do some testing of the Z10K in 60i for less critical shooting.

The Panasonic Z10k held up very well on my tour of Carlsbad Caverns with cool high humidity and clanking along slung over my shoulder. In Death Valley the temperatures were cool but dry. The hiking was just as demanding as in the cave and the camcorder also held up well. For this last trip my TD-10's remained on my car cam mounts. Out of the car I shot with the Z10k and 3D1 and NEX5n in twin rig. At CES I did carry one TD10 to shoot stuff on the show floor.
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post #20 of 55 Old 01-29-2014, 03:07 PM
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I might also add that the JVC TD1 is excellent for underwater shooting. Equinox makes a housing for it. And, footage shot underwater looks quite good on a 132" screen rendered at 720p to blu ray- since underwater is more forgiving in terms of noticing fine textures, etc. It would be nice if it had a wider angle lens, but certainly not a deal breaker. I'm having Equinox adapt the housing to accommodate a Cyclopital 28mm lens so this should add even more versatility. I would have to say that the camera surpassed my expectations as I have had problems with other small chip cameras clipping highlights on coral reefs. The TD1 didn't.
I suspect we're all going to be 3D orphans for some time to come. So, I'm glad that we were able to get these things during the short window of opportunity we had. Hopefully, Joseph is right and good, well priced, glasses less 3d displays will jump start this thing again.
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You should post some clips from that video, Barry. IMO, many if them look considerably better than much of the Coral Reef videos that popped up in Best Buy and Amazon within the last year.

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post #22 of 55 Old 01-29-2014, 05:31 PM
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Does anyone know where I could get my hands on some 4K 3D footage? I'd like to play around with it in Edius, just to see how much I could bog down my system. biggrin.gif

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post #23 of 55 Old 01-29-2014, 06:06 PM
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I'm using Edius to upscale a couple of minutes of TD1 MVC 60i footage to left/right mp4 streams at 3840x2160p, so I'll have a few "native" 4K clips to play around with.

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post #24 of 55 Old 01-30-2014, 12:02 AM
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Barry C

While I have seen some pretty good underwater 3D video, the best preservation of wide angle is with a dome ported lens. The Equinox housings are not quite sophisticated to support this for 3D so you're stuck with a flat port which reduces color saturation and warmer color loss. They recommend the warming filters but in my experience these only work on very shallow shooting. Beyond 10 ft of depth the warmer colors lose it and reds begin to turn brown with the filter. Lighting is the only real solution but even then that only works to 15 ft shooting distance, usually plenty enough for underwater.

Because of the dome port restriction I often thought the best design rig might be a side by side rig with two small 2D HD cams inside one housing with twin domes and single wide angle adapter lenses. using an IA of 4 inches and 15mm U/W lens, I'd bet some amazing video could be shot.

In the 80's I designed underwater housings and lighting systems through my company Scuba Tech Inc. My U/W light was one of the most powerful at 500 watts and a 20 minute burn time. I had another that was 350 watts that burned for 45 minutes.


Do you have any of your U/W 3D video up for viewing?
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post #25 of 55 Old 01-30-2014, 09:48 AM
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Don,
I have a YouTube version of it at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Vxky54eeq8

It was uploaded in 1/2 frame format. Ironically, I don't seem to be able to view it on my system. Its gotten some good comments, so hopefully it looks OK . I sent Joseph a blu ray disc of it a few months back so that he could critique it.
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Hey, Barry. You probably need to turn on HTML5 in order to see the YouTube video. It's supported in most browsers.

Sounds like you and Don could share some notes. Both of you have run into similar issues with underwater shooting.

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post #27 of 55 Old 01-30-2014, 10:56 AM
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Last night I up-scaled some 1920x1080/60i to 3840x2160p, just for grins. I know the post-production details for editing 3D are going to be different, but I just wanted to try to get a sense of what it might feel like to edit 4K 3D in Edius. I placed the scaled 4K left/right clips on the timeline and paired them as stereoscopic. With the project properties set to the native 3840x2160, such 3D clips on the timeline wouldn't play back smoothly on either of my two systems (i7 2600k at stock speed or i7 3930 slightly overclocked). As soon as I switched the project settings to 1920x1080 (with the same 4K clips), both systems would play the previews cleanly. Dissolves between two such clips once again reduced playback speed to about 80-90% of normal.

Unsurprisingly, 4K is going to require more horsepower to get similar performance. Duh! Also unsurprisingly, Edius' real-time playback of the timeline is good with 4K clips, if the project is set to a lower than native resolution size during the edit phase.

This little test doesn't mean much, but it was kinda fun.

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post #28 of 55 Old 01-30-2014, 11:15 AM
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fantastic! Barry. I really enjoyed your work. The color was quite good looking, but I could see it disappearing in the deeper sections of the reef. The opening of the whale was a little rough around the edges but I could see it was not shot very close but the 3D still showed up. That surprised me. When the Blue Tangs came on the scene the video got much sharper. Your Turtle scenes were some of the best I ever saw. Never saw a Turtle feeding.

I viewed it on my Vizio from a computer I use for editing. I just slide the browser over to the Vizio screen and then set the Vizio to SBS and click on the full screen in the YT player. I could not set the resolution higher than 360 so I guess you didn't upload it in 1080p, but it still looked nice.

My last scuba dive was back in '92 so you know the technology wasn't even HD back then much less 3D. I retired due to both work demands and health reasons. Did not dive again until 2006 in Grand Cayman, but that was in a 2 man sub. Can't scuba anymore. There I shot with a mini HDCAM in the sub. It was OK but could not get close because the sub was so big.
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I agree, Don. Barry's video is much better than two other Coral Reef videos I bought last year (one from Amazon and one from Best Buy). You should see it in 720p on Blu-ray 3D - very nice!

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post #30 of 55 Old 01-30-2014, 02:05 PM
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Thanks guys, coming from the two of you, much appreciated.
Don, I'm not sure why it wouldn't do more than 360, as I uploaded it in 720. However, since this was my first attempt at uploading 3d, who knows. I'm glad you told me. Perhaps Joseph could try it on his system and see what happens.
Don, regarding the whale shark scene, it actually was the only clip in the piece that was shot in 2d by a friend of mine with a Gopro. When our boat spotted that critter, we had just enough time to hit the water. No time to grab my housing, which wouldn't have been very good anyway with its narrow field of view. I did a 3d conversion on that clip and felt it worked better than I was expecting. I used a red filter on the housing which managed to preserve a fair amount of color- if shot close enough to the subjects- even down at 80', which surprised me. (The deck of the shipwreck sits at 80'). When I spotted the feeding turtle, I thought it must be my lucky day as, in over 40 years of diving, this was the first time I was able to get one feeding. Having the 3d system to catch it was a real bonus!
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