GoPro 3D System for two HERO3+ Black Edition cameras - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 1518 Old 09-16-2014, 02:57 PM
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Thanks! I didn't think it worked with the LCD. Anyway, Bob convinced me to save a few bucks and go the Nabi twin route. No need for sync cable. Got used to working without it with my NEX 5n rig.

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post #32 of 1518 Old 09-17-2014, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post
Thanks! I didn't think it worked with the LCD. Anyway, Bob convinced me to save a few bucks and go the Nabi twin route. No need for sync cable. Got used to working without it with my NEX 5n rig.

Yep. That sounds cool. I am just too lazy to hassle with custom rigs. And I use GoPros for multiple purposes, for example with my quad copter. So going with two GoPros was a natural choice for me. GoPro image quality with 2.7K mode is also superb, so no complains there.
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post #33 of 1518 Old 09-17-2014, 01:37 AM
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No doubt, GoPro is the Rolls Royce of this camera format. My SIL is extremely happy with his. I bought a bunch of the stock when it went public so I am also very happy.

I had plans of getting a quad copter once but after much consulting, discovered they wouldn't work well in my application. Too windy. Was told they work best with little to no wind for stable video.


Have you heard about the new Hero 4 rumored to come out next month?

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post #34 of 1518 Old 09-18-2014, 10:45 AM
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I had plans of getting a quad copter once but after much consulting, discovered they wouldn't work well in my application. Too windy. Was told they work best with little to no wind for stable video.


Have you heard about the new Hero 4 rumored to come out next month?
Bit of topic, but my Phantom quad with Zenmuse gimbal makes pretty steady footage even in quite windy conditions.
Only problem is that controlling the quad in a wind can be really challenging.

And yes, I have heard the rumors. It should be about time for a new model. I think they have released one every year recently. Let's see what are the specs and then we know how tempting it is to get new Hero.
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post #35 of 1518 Old 10-02-2014, 03:58 PM
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Hero 4 will have 4K @ 30fps coming soon on website.

Also there is the Ricoh WG-M1, but only 1080p 30fps, no option for 24p but I like the form factor.



http://us.ricoh-imaging.com/digital-...!product-specs

I'm leaning towards GoPro, they seem to have more support and upgrades than anyone else.

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post #36 of 1518 Old 10-02-2014, 05:14 PM
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tom- the one thing I still do not like about GoPro and it is still present on the new Hero4+ That is the lens. The extreme left and right sides of the image near the center screen has the horizontal lines flapping up and down as you cross the midpint, aiming the camera. This is purely a problem with such a wide angle lens. I'm not sure there is a solution to this. As long as you are aware of the GoPro lens signature and find it acceptable OK.

I wanted to build up a GoPro style U/W rig for snorkeling, but didn't want to pay the price of twin GoPro's so I went with the system that 3DBob suggested and will tolerate that same artifact in the Nabi's But I built the complete system for under $170. It doesn't have the 4K or high speed which I really like of the GoPro but I'll get my U/W images without much money out of pocket.

If you get the Ricoh, I'd like to see how it handles that. It supposedly has a 3mm focal length and the Nabi has the 2.5mm.

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post #37 of 1518 Old 10-02-2014, 11:29 PM
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I think that will be the case in all of these action cams with small lens/sensor setups. The EWAL lens (extreme wide angle), more than wide angle less then fish eye, causing that noticeable parabolic skewing. Not sure if we're talking about the same thing (horizontal lines?).

Might be less noticeable as you shift the focal point towards the main subject, but on the sides, vertical lines will begin to shift (post correction possible to some degree depending on how bad it is). Since most users are buying them to film themselves it makes sense with the EWAL but it'd be nice to have the option without it or a conversion adapter, which I do not see possible for a screw on on these.

Wide open shots will be more noticeable, closeups and extreme closeups will get the benefit. Since these are such a small package you could pack these in and use them when needed. I'm just looking for another 3D rig besides an all in one solution. All of the all in ones A. have fixed position lenses and I'd like the option of widening out the I.A. (EWAL will have an impact though) B. all in ones (besides the Pro 3D rigs like my 3DA1) all have a compressed combined bit rate which lowers quality. With 2 separate compression files should improve quality over most all in one Prosumer 3D cams.

I haven't settled on anything yet. Just looking at all the options. I checked out the Nabi:



and the price point really isn't bad. The viewing angle is slightly less than Nabi HD at 160 on the GoPro vs 175. Not sure on the Ricoh, I think around 150 deg. Yeah, the Nabi looks to be really compact design and smaller lens, so wider angle makes sense on it. But not good for overall PQ.

Here's what I could find on each:
GoPro 160 deg
Nabi 175
Ricoh 150? deg,
Panasonic A100/500 160 deg,
Sony HDRAS100V/W here's another one -with 170 deg
Canon VIXIA mini X 150/160 AVCHD or MP4 respectively

Also, some of these have image stabilization which narrows the field of view, but in practice I'm not sure how that effects performance since I haven't used any of these yet.


Sony HDRAS100V/W:

http://store.sony.com/pov-action-cam...All-Action-Cam
Sony's action cam boasts some pretty good specs from what I've read. Carl Zeiss glass, Exmor sensor, XVAC codec with 50 mb recording. 24p native support. And the price is 299, not bad. Not much on looks though.

I'd say the biggest drawback on these action cams beside the EWAL is the lack of zoom with the fixed lenses. I see the Nabi has a 4x zoom. It'd be nice to change focal points and as far as I know, the Hero 4 is still fixed focal. They work for what they're designed for, I know I'm asking for it to do it all...

A lot of drawbacks to these, but size and weight could make it worth it.

One I was just looking at Canon VIXIA mini X:

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consum...ini_x#Overview

This one has 150 deg AVCHD or 160 MP4, also it can do 24p natively. Plus Canon glass and LPCM audio instead of compressed on most others, but with a cheap mic, probably not much difference there. No zoom here either, fixed focal.

Still GoPro has the best all around features that I've seen.

Update: On the Sony POV, I'm reading great things about it, one big advantage is the image stabilization which the GoPro doesn't have. Maybe the Hero 4 will finally get it? With the stabilization on it narrows the angle down to about normal level so easy way to record without EWAL. And a correction on native 24p, it does over cranking 120 or 240 over 24p, not normal 24p frame rate. Records in 60i/60p only. One advantage on the new Hero 4 is 120 fps in 1080p, but at 200.00 more. The only one of these with native 24p support is the Canon mini Vixia.

Getting a little out of the action cams: CANON VIXIA HF R500 Black


Price is 299.00 and offers a 57x advanced zoom. 35 mbps mp4 recording, 24p native. Several IS modes. A little bigger though at 8.5 Ozs. 2 of these might make a nice bench rig. I've got a few months before I buy so no hurry for me.

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post #38 of 1518 Old 10-03-2014, 09:46 AM
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Here are some 5meg (highly compressed to upload) stills from the Nabi, plus post processing. The outside shot does not show the distortion, but the inside shot looks fisheye.


First pic is inside with 400 ISO, 1/3 sec shutter, and f/3.6 (fixed)
Second outdoor shot is 100 ISO, 1/249 sec shutter, and f/3.6.


The two additional are post processed to remove fisheye, with enhanced contrast and saturation, and some sharpness and noise reduction (inside shot only). Of course, if you pixel peep more than 100%, you are wasting your time. At ISO 400, there is obviously a lot of noise. Frankly, for such a "cheap" camera, I was not expecting as good of results as I got.
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Last edited by 3DBob; 10-03-2014 at 09:50 AM. Reason: I took out link to video and put it in it's own window as it was interferring with the photos.
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post #39 of 1518 Old 10-03-2014, 09:51 AM
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Here's a link to a 2K video from one Nabi made from time lapse single 3meg shots and processed in gopro software.



Last edited by 3DBob; 10-03-2014 at 09:56 AM.
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post #40 of 1518 Old 10-03-2014, 11:49 AM
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tom- If I did not have a want for a below the water surface 3D camera for very low cost, I would not have purchased the Nabi pair. If all I wanted was a nice "selfie 3D camcorder on a stick, my Panasonic 3D1 would do the job fine and the EWAL distortion of horizontal would not be there.

In still shots like 3DBOB exampled the artifact is not so disturbing but when the camera is moved about, various horizontal lines move above and below the centerline as one tilts the camera vertically. This creates a wing flapping artifact that these cameras all have when moved. I don't know if there is a way around this other than to shoot lock down on a tripod of a static scene and now we just defeated the whole benefit these little cameras bring to the kit.

The interesting thing is, that has been proven by the GoPro success story, is that this artifact has been acceptable by the public. They overlook it because the story captured by the GoPro camera trumps the wing flapping artifact.in the video. It has been so successful that these cameras are widely accepted by the professional industry for extreme sports documentaries too.

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post #41 of 1518 Old 10-03-2014, 01:26 PM
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Don, I've never really noticed the wing flapping artifact in all the gopro shots I've seen since the cameras are rarely moved up and down with such quick motion unless someone is flipping, but even then I had not really paid attention to it. I will look for it now. As long as the distortion continues from the center out, it's fine on the Nabi per my jetski videos. Can you point to a particular video that really shows this?
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post #42 of 1518 Old 10-03-2014, 04:05 PM
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I use a Gopro 3+ on a ski helmet at the medium wide setting. Since I'm not doing selfies, this works better then the wide setting as everything in front doesn't look so far away. Also less barrel distortion. Even on the few that I did at widest angle, I can't say I've noticed the flapping either. On the other hand, Don's probably right and if I look at the clips again, I probably will notice it. Biggest problem with the GP for sports is the bouncing around can make the videos uncomfortable to watch. I have a mount attached to the top of my JVCTD1 underwater housings- only one not the double 3D Gopro housing- but haven't really tried it yet.
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post #43 of 1518 Old 10-04-2014, 01:18 AM
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Don, I've never really noticed the wing flapping artifact in all the gopro shots I've seen since the cameras are rarely moved up and down with such quick motion unless someone is flipping, but even then I had not really paid attention to it. I will look for it now. As long as the distortion continues from the center out, it's fine on the Nabi per my jetski videos. Can you point to a particular video that really shows this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJX_aInTn_M#t=77

First major flapping is at 1:12 to 1:17. I didn't bother to document other locations as now you know what to look for, you'll see it in all the Go Pro videos that are shot this way. One solution is to avoid the horizon crossing the middle of the frame.

Your video, just selected quickly because all these cameras have the artifact. It shows up easily seen when the hard horizontal line at the center of the screen crosses the midpoint the curvature goes from concave up to concave down. If the hard line stays to the top or bottom half of the screen all we see is a steady curved image. It's when that hard line crosses up and down, we get the flapping in video. Like I said it has become so commonplace people now seem to ignore it.

I remember when people were claiming they never saw the rainbows in DLP projectors, then I showed them how to detect it. Once they knew how, they had trouble not seeing them. I hope I didn't ruin your appreciation of the extreme wide angle lenses now.

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post #44 of 1518 Old 10-04-2014, 06:46 AM
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Don, I do see it now, but I never realized it was there. That said, I now can't get the link to do stereo, it just lets me select resolution. If I go to my YouTube page and click directly on it, it works, but if I copy the link and look at it outside of my page, it does not offer 3D options. Is it working for you? Do you know what I might be doing wrong??
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post #45 of 1518 Old 10-04-2014, 08:05 AM
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That's YT. I've had that limitation for many months now. The remote player doesn't offer the 3D selection option anymore.

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post #46 of 1518 Old 10-04-2014, 08:06 AM
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Just saw this announcement about the Gopro 4s. Nothing particularly unexpected.

http://airherald.com/gopro-hero-4-li...r-model/12445/
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post #47 of 1518 Old 10-04-2014, 08:08 AM
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Hey Don, I know you own the stock. Looks like you're 6% richer on it:blush:
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post #48 of 1518 Old 10-04-2014, 11:30 AM
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That's YT. I've had that limitation for many months now. The remote player doesn't offer the 3D selection option anymore.

So how do you look at them then? I tried everything, but nothing works unless I click the direct link in the video manager within my account.
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post #49 of 1518 Old 10-04-2014, 01:07 PM
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The only way which works well for me anymore for viewing YT 3D is doing it through Power DVD. It will only allow viewing 3D at 720 but, as far as I'm concerned, that's just fine. The only other thing to remember when watching 3D with PDVD- at least for me- is that the 3D settings in PDVD must be set at side by side. Using the auto detect won't work correctly.
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post #50 of 1518 Old 10-04-2014, 01:37 PM
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Bob- Here in the edit suite, I have dual monitors on my edit computer. In YT, I bring up your channel and video. My default is 1080p and SBS. Then I drag the browser over to my 3D monitor, expand the Browser player to full screen and switch the monitor to SBS mode.

In the Home Theater, I use the YT app and switch the projector to SBS. Both the WDTV Live and the BR player have apps that work fine. My PS3 doesn't cooperate with the projector in YT SBS. It wants to switch to top bottom. Strange!


Barry- I did much better than 6%. Traded 400 shares since the IPO date in June. Initial share on day one was $31.40. Last I sold was at 92.40. Bought back in for 100 shares at 85.50 last Thursday. Have to watch it daily. It's been an exciting wild ride. And the ride isn't over yet.

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post #51 of 1518 Old 10-04-2014, 03:58 PM
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Don--Yeah, I have the passive 27" monitor capability and man cave 3D projector, but I was making my SBS youtubes 3D and also sharing them with my 2D friends. Now they can't select that and will be confused--oh well. I've just begun to play around with Phereo.com and it's app. It's great to showcase 3D photo to others on the internet with a choice to select all the popular viewing methods. Doesn't appear to handle video though.
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post #52 of 1518 Old 10-04-2014, 10:24 PM
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I'm not sure I noticed it, but I was just watching it on computer not 3D. So the image was squished a little. It's a combination of EWAL and the small lens/senor. The fisheye and EWAL are better for still photography, in video they don't behave quite the same do they?

What would help, is lowering the camera and making the camera parallel to the horizon, and that will take most of the bow out. Well, in theory, when your bouncing around... really depends on use and how you're able to set up camera mount. The flapping lines, I think I know what you're talking about, mostly that would only be with up and down motion where the horizon is shifting up and down quickly. Biking, skiing, etc. when self shooting. If you shoot parallel to the horizon it might help flatten the horizon. You get the angle too low or high and it will bow up or down. Keep it flat, course then we can't see the person's face as well. Then you have to get the camera farther out.

They really need to put a normal threaded lens on and then you could just add the EWAL if you want it. You'd have to deal with vignetting and minor focusing issues at times but at least you'd get a normal view for most shooting and then up close shots you could add the EWAL adapter. I think I'd rather deal with vignetting than a constant EWAL distortion. I wouldn't mind using it for a few quick shots, but I'd get rather sick of it if that was it's only FOV. That Sony model sounds interesting, since it has the IS and while it's on you get a normal view. Best of both worlds you know. And from what I've read the IS, is pretty good. Priced at 299, same as Hero 3. Only downside for me is no 24p native but if it's just used for supplemental scenes I could deal with it.

A little off the subject of action cams, right now I'm thinking about going with a pair of the Canon Vixia HF 500 for a long range 3D bench and maybe the Sony POVs for up close or quick stuff. Earlier this year I was looking at the SBE for my 3DA1 but it doesn't add much to the I.A. Seriously considering going with a parallel bench rig instead, and cost would be cheaper too. It's a lot of $ to invest in a piece of glass that only works on one camera. The Canon Vixia's are 299.00 much cheaper to replace if needed.

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post #53 of 1518 Old 10-05-2014, 07:16 AM
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They really need to put a normal threaded lens on and then you could just add the EWAL if you want it.
I agree. The Hero cameras are capable of lens replacement and other members here have done that with earlier models. But it is not a field swap as we do with our bigger cameras. That's what I would want for the GoPro.

Anyway, for my purpose and I'm sure 3DBob is in this camp. Our EWAL Nabi's are really the perfect fit. I don't think I would get much improvement with the Hero3 or 4+ that would justify the cost increase over the 3D Nabi package. I'm eager to get mine on that Disney Cruise and snorkeling to have some fun with it. Now that I am aware of the horizon line flapping issue, I will shoot to maintain the horizon and any other horizontal hard line in the image either above or below the center. It when it rides across the center of the image that the video flapping gets annoying to me. I mind that more than the curvature even if severe. I also am not a fan of dead screen space so vignetting bothers me. Glad there is none with these cameras.
On my NEX5n.s I stopped going wider than 9mm because all those lenses vignette.

Bob- Might need to go back to uploading two versions, one in 2D. ( what a PIA!) There was a time I was doing that the last time YT changed the player and did this.

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post #54 of 1518 Old 10-05-2014, 08:23 AM
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Yeah, Don. I will have to start uploading two versions. As for the Nabis versus Gopro. My son has the gopro 3+ and loves it, but from all the videos I've seen so far, the Nabi and the Gopro are very similar for 1080p, and in some ways the time lapse on the Nabi appears better, not sure why. His is not stereo, so that's where the two Nabis shine. As for the wing flapping, really not a problem for me and or anyone that's seen my Nabi videos. But then again, few people have watched them on the big screen--then it would be obvious..
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post #55 of 1518 Old 10-13-2014, 04:10 PM
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Opps!

GPRO
76.67
-9.85%

After GoPro camera was linked to Michael Schumacher accident. Did investors forget these are commonly used for risky activity? Geez! It's what they're designed for.

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post #56 of 1518 Old 10-13-2014, 09:22 PM
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Right, but you have to recognize how the journalists work. On a day when there is a major market pullback, the journalist feels it is his obligation to report a specific reason for each stock in the limelight has a pullback. GoPro has been pulling back since middle of last week as we are in a major market correction. These corrections happen coincidentally on the Fibonacci ratios as evidenced by history. It's like a self fullfilling prophesy. That injury has had nothing to do with GoPro's sell off. Heck, Google sold off bigger. The biggest one day sell off was when Nick Woodman announced he violated the lockup on 5 million shares early by starting his charity. Then he counters that with the announcement of the Hero 4 features.

I had 300 shares of GoPro beginning of the month and sold it out between 93.30 and 91.20 last week. I am waiting for the market to bottom out before even thinking about getting back in. The experts are predicting $60 right now, but I'll bet a lot of that has to do with the bottom of crude oil and getting Ebola under control before the market turns. I am very excited on how this GoPro has moved these past 4 months but most of the money has been made now. It will settle down when the holiday season is over, and they dump 50% more shares onto the market from the lock up expiration and Woodman's trust sell off. My guess is the stock settles in at $25 by end of January. I post this so if you were considering investing now, don't until the pull back completes that cycle and then it will be a stock you have to watch by the hour. This company is way too volatile to buy and hold as in forget you own it.

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post #57 of 1518 Old 11-01-2014, 12:49 PM
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Just pulled the trigger today on a second Gopro 3+ and the dual housing. Those Nabi's sound great also but I already own one 3+ so that was the key factor. Hope to- assuming we get snow this year- use it on a helmet cam for skiing. Edius does a great job at image stabilization and stereoscopic depth enhancement, so hope it will be effective for some good 3D ski video. Since the 3+ will shoot at 2.7K 30fps, it would seem that using this resolution, which inevitably will be cropped with the Edius stabilization filter, might be a good bet. Output, of course, would be at 1080 or 720p. Any thoughts or guidance on this workflow idea would be appreciated.

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post #58 of 1518 Old 11-01-2014, 02:39 PM
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Barry, does Edius enhance 3D by simple separation of the images or warping of the z axis? I didn't think it did, but based on your comment, I'm wondering (never used it myself).
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post #59 of 1518 Old 11-01-2014, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
Barry, does Edius enhance 3D by simple separation of the images or warping of the z axis? I didn't think it did, but based on your comment, I'm wondering (never used it myself).
Bob, the current version of Edius, in the Stereoscopic filter, has a control which they call Horizontal. It has a slider which is labeled on the left as far and on the right as near. I think Joe Clark mentioned to me that, in an older version of Edius he is using, the control was somewhat different but accomplished the same thing. I find it works extremely well. Power Director also has this feature which works well. I recently bought a second monitor- should have done it a long time ago- which makes it very convient using this feature in full screen 3D mode. I can move the slider and really see what's looking best in terms of depth. I kind of think it's nothing short of amazing at times. Actually, the main reason I bought the 3D Gopro system at this time is now having the ability in Edius- which I am fairly new to, thanks Joe Clark for turning me on to it- to greatly increase the depth. GPs are such wide angle beasts that without that, in my opinion, all but the closest objects would look flat or cardboarded. I'm hoping even with this enhancement there will be enough depth created to overcome this. And, since for skiing video I will need to use the stabilization filter which will effectively crop the video, I'm optimistic.

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post #60 of 1518 Old 11-01-2014, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
Barry, does Edius enhance 3D by simple separation of the images or warping of the z axis? I didn't think it did, but based on your comment, I'm wondering (never used it myself).
It doesn't warp the z-axis, but it's a fairly powerful and easy to use 3D adjustment tool. It has a rectify button to adjust both horizontal and vertical errors at the same time, and an auto-sizing button that fills the frames after correction. Together with the "Layouter," it makes correcting 3D problems a lot easier.

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