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post #1501 of 1518 Old 10-01-2017, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by tomtastic View Post
SbS and T/B Full will work on a 4K passive screen but not really from the YT player, have to download the file first. It's really on the player that can force the resolution to screen. I ripped a movie to T/B full and tested on my 4K LG and it played in full equal resolution to MVC from VLC. Problem is it will only work on a 4K screen and not my 1080p screen and the larger file size so I'm sticking with half resolution for now which looks just fine.
Could you elaborate it in more detail? I cannot understand. Is there any built in player in LG 4K 3D TV which can play full LR or T/B files and show them as 3D in correct aspect ratio? Probably you mean VLC player on a PC and then sending the picture to the TV by HDMI cable (the resolution would be lower, I suppose)?

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post #1502 of 1518 Old 10-02-2017, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by crunchy3d View Post
Could you elaborate it in more detail? I cannot understand. Is there any built in player in LG 4K 3D TV which can play full LR or T/B files and show them as 3D in correct aspect ratio? Probably you mean VLC player on a PC and then sending the picture to the TV by HDMI cable (the resolution would be lower, I suppose)?

Damir
Yes, I tested with VLC. No, the resolution is full, not lower. I tested ripping to t/b full instead of half and it will be full 1080p per eye on 4K display. I also tested moving file to USB stick and putting in TV and that works too though that's not my preferred method. The file will be bigger because it's full resolution, you could use h.265 which will save some space but that takes much longer to encode, very processor intensive.

I haven't tested on built in app in LG but I believe the Plex app might play it, but I haven't tested it yet. I installed Plex app later after I tried t/b full. I will test Plex app next and see but I will have to rip another blu ray first to t/b full. Plex works very well for a built-in app playing 3D content and will usually auto-switch 3D mode on LG on and off. Also not sure if you can run lossless audio out of TV, I heard you can't so would be better coming from external device into TV. The built in Plex app will play 4K content without problems like stuttering and lag and navigation in menu is pretty good, again main problem is audio output to sound system. I will probably upgrade to a new 4K Mac Mini. The new Apple TV supports 4K now and lossless audio and I believe it will run Plex app too, so a cheaper solution.

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post #1503 of 1518 Old 10-02-2017, 09:25 AM
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How is it possible to have anaglyph if 3D checkbox is missing during the upload?


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Damir
The 3D checkbox was deprecated. YT auto scrubs the uploads now and looks for the 3D meta tag inside the files which are added by the NLE. If the 3D tag is detected it's given 3D label like the deprecated 3D checkbox did before. So in Chrome and I believe the Edge browser you will only have options for 2D/anaglyph. In some other browsers like Safari on Mac you get the sourced side by side file but I cannot get higher resolutions, only 720p or on my laptop I can see up to 1440p. So for me if your YT uploads are in side by side and has the 3D meta info I cannot play them in 3D on Chrome or higher than 720p in Safari. I would have to download file first, only solution.

This only effects side by side files, not t/b so t/b is an easy fix to lock 3D source file and keep YT from attaching 3D label. I did a test yesterday on side by side files and I discovered that Power Director adds the 3D meta data every time for side by side and YT will detect it. The same test file in Vegas Pro did not add the 3D meta data and YT ignores it so it stays in 2D side by side in Chrome. So if you want side by side I guess use Vegas Pro. I'm not sure on Edius what happens.

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post #1504 of 1518 Old 10-02-2017, 11:08 AM
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How is it possible to have anaglyph if 3D checkbox is missing during the upload?
The new html5 uses meta data in the SBS 2D file to tell YT that the 2D image is SBS or T/B but half is still a requirement from what I understand. Newer render engines are now injecting this meta data during the render but as I explained to tom, you can add the meta data to the 3D SBS file before upload to tell YT how to handle it. Otherwise it will just show as SBS.


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I opened full side-by-side video on my phone and it worked as it should. Just freeview the video (in parallel) or put the phone in VR box and you have 3D. Where is the catch? Why do you need goggles button? I don't like to change the view while moving my head around. Namely it's not 360 video.
Just freeview? Do you mean crosseyed view? Yeah that will work but not really a great production tool for viewers to have to use.

Putting the phone into VR goggles with a 3D SBS video that is not injected with meta data does not display the goggles icon to select. It does work. Check out the demo titled: Rick and Morty VR Box Google Cardboard 3D Virtual Reality Video. Search for it on YT, Sorry I lost the link. It does not have the navigation nor 360°. The goggles icon is missing.

But T/B will never display this way unless meta data for T/B is injected. Here are two 3D still screen captures with meta data injected and in VR 3D goggles mode:

The second is not a 360VR but just a normal flat screen where the goggles is activated and can be properly displayed in 3D with the goggles.

The third is a screen grab from the Rick and Morty 3D video. It has no goggles icon and will display properly with the goggles.
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Last edited by Don Landis; 10-02-2017 at 11:15 AM.
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post #1505 of 1518 Old 10-02-2017, 12:49 PM
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Damir- I don't know what happened to the first image, but not important. I was able to see what you are referring to now using my Sony Xperia and putting that phone display in the Goggles. It looked good but not being designed for the goggles optics, the left and right sides of the image was not visible. Likely due to the lenses vignetting. But the central part of the picture with the tree was clearly well done in 3D. The Sony is capable of displaying a 3840 pixel wide video without downresing. So any SBS full that is 2X 1920 wide will display.
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post #1506 of 1518 Old 10-03-2017, 02:13 AM
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Originally Posted by tomtastic View Post
Yes, I tested with VLC. No, the resolution is full, not lower. I tested ripping to t/b full instead of half and it will be full 1080p per eye on 4K display. I also tested moving file to USB stick and putting in TV and that works too though that's not my preferred method. The file will be bigger because it's full resolution, you could use h.265 which will save some space but that takes much longer to encode, very processor intensive.
I still can't understand. My LG 4K 3D passive TV can play squeezed side-by-side or over-under files from USB key. Do you want to say that if you play full resolution over-under files (on USB key), the TV will show it in the correct aspect ratio? This is surprising. Are you sure? If you have passive 3D TV you can't get full vertical resolution anyway.
By the way, I don't plug in the USB key, but large external disk, instead.

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post #1507 of 1518 Old 10-03-2017, 02:26 AM
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Originally Posted by tomtastic View Post
The 3D checkbox was deprecated. YT auto scrubs the uploads now and looks for the 3D meta tag inside the files which are added by the NLE. If the 3D tag is detected it's given 3D label like the deprecated 3D checkbox did before. So in Chrome and I believe the Edge browser you will only have options for 2D/anaglyph. In some other browsers like Safari on Mac you get the sourced side by side file but I cannot get higher resolutions, only 720p or on my laptop I can see up to 1440p. So for me if your YT uploads are in side by side and has the 3D meta info I cannot play them in 3D on Chrome or higher than 720p in Safari. I would have to download file first, only solution.
You are right! I was adding "-x264opts frame-packing=3" to my ffmpeg scripts when creating squeezed side-by-side video and it seems that it works:

I also tried to upload full side-by-side video and adding YT tags "yt3d:aspect=16:9" and "yt:crop=16:9". However, YT shows horizontally stretched anaglyph, instead.
I am only wondering if there is any other option to upload over-under (top/bottom) version to YT as well. I suppose that "-x264opts frame-packing=4" won't work, since the file should be in a special top over bottom configuration (with black line in between)?!?

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Originally Posted by tomtastic View Post
This only effects side by side files, not t/b so t/b is an easy fix to lock 3D source file and keep YT from attaching 3D label. I did a test yesterday on side by side files and I discovered that Power Director adds the 3D meta data every time for side by side and YT will detect it. The same test file in Vegas Pro did not add the 3D meta data and YT ignores it so it stays in 2D side by side in Chrome. So if you want side by side I guess use Vegas Pro. I'm not sure on Edius what happens.
I am using Sony (Vegas Pro and MS), but I never export directly from Sony. I always use frame serving to ffmpeg to get the final file due to much higher quality/size ratio.

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post #1508 of 1518 Old 10-03-2017, 02:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post
Just freeview? Do you mean crosseyed view? Yeah that will work but not really a great production tool for viewers to have to use.
I meant parallel view, at least I can make it on my LG phone. It was just for checking the video is somebody does not have 3D TV around.

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But T/B will never display this way unless meta data for T/B is injected.
How do you do that? I mean to inject T/B meta data? By using "Spatial Media Metadata Injector"? That one works with Python and I am slightly reluctant to use programs which depend on other programs (which depend on other programs, etc.).
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post #1509 of 1518 Old 10-03-2017, 02:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post
Damir- I don't know what happened to the first image, but not important. I was able to see what you are referring to now using my Sony Xperia and putting that phone display in the Goggles. It looked good but not being designed for the goggles optics, the left and right sides of the image was not visible. Likely due to the lenses vignetting.
With my simple viewer I can see entire picture without vignetting, although the picture quality is slightly degraded near the edges. I prefer seeing larger picture, since it also means better resolution (of course, if you can see it without vignetting).

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post #1510 of 1518 Old 10-03-2017, 07:52 AM
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Here is my simple viewer, Damir. It came with my Vuze 360 Camera. I love these since I can fold them up and they travel well being no bigger than a pair of foldable reading glasses.

It must be placed in the exact center between the two side by side images and then the 3D effect can be realized. They are designed so you hold the lenses close to your eyes. But even these show the vignetting from the full wide effect. Using them or my full size goggles, the only with the 360 meta data injected will the entire frame be visible. That is because the frame is reshapped to be seen as a 360 VR window of view.
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Last edited by Don Landis; 10-03-2017 at 07:56 AM.
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post #1511 of 1518 Old 10-03-2017, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by crunchy3d View Post
I still can't understand. My LG 4K 3D passive TV can play squeezed side-by-side or over-under files from USB key. Do you want to say that if you play full resolution over-under files (on USB key), the TV will show it in the correct aspect ratio? This is surprising. Are you sure? If you have passive 3D TV you can't get full vertical resolution anyway.
By the way, I don't plug in the USB key, but large external disk, instead.

Damir
I will have to test USB stick again, I did test it before with full HD and I remember it worked, I will let you know results. If your source is full HD (1920x1080) you could encode it to either SbS full or T/B full and play it on a 4K passive in full HD per eye, doesn't make any difference you can get full HD on passive 4K that way, enough pixels either way to support the resolution. I downloaded your second GoPro sample (3840x1080p h.264 .mp4) from YT. I played via VLC from Mac Pro to second screen LG 4K and it is displayed in full 1920x1080p per eye on my screen, no black bars.

I have VLC setup in prefs. to auto play on LG and in full screen. I did have to enable 16:9 AR in video prefs so that the black bars are removed. I also ripped a 3D Blu ray movie again and tested that. I used t/b full which produced 1920x2080 (it was a 1.85 AR movie so not using all 2160 pixels tall). It played fine in VLC after adjusting AR in prefs. I also tested the 3rd party Plex app on LG and it played fine too in full HD. I did have a problem with audio, doesn't support lossless audio, have to downgrade. I would rather send signal to TV and not process internally, my preference. Plex app does a great job of auto switching 3D content and you can play 4K content flawlessly. I would install Plex on LG and give that a try, much better than USB drive.

For 4K content in 3D, it should be t/b since the passive display will only allow 1080p per eye. If you produce side by side UHD frame the display will only show 1920x1080p. The width will be upconverted to UHD width and not native source and the height will but cut from 2160p per view to 1080p similar to what passive 1080p displays do with HD. But t/b will be displayed in highest resolution on your 4K LG in 3840x1080p per eye native resolution with no upconverting.

For YT, full HD won't work from YT player, no option to adjust image to correct layout for full HD, you will get two smaller HD frames side by side. Only way to play it would be to download it first like I did, but since I can't get higher than 720p, I have to anyway. But most don't download YT files to play, so half resolution uploads are preferred. For UHD t/b it really depends on display. If you have a passive LG 4K it will work, but as Don has mentioned, some devices won't accept UHD signals and 3D mode at same time only up to 1080p.

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post #1512 of 1518 Old 10-03-2017, 11:14 AM
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How do you do that? I mean to inject T/B meta data? By using "Spatial Media Metadata Injector"? That one works with Python and I am slightly reluctant to use programs which depend on other programs (which depend on other programs, etc.).
Yes, that's what I use when rendering in Vegas Pro v13 and outputting 360VR to YT, whether T/B or SBS. It works well. All my newer edit platforms add the meta data during the rendering. So the injection is not necessary.

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post #1513 of 1518 Old 10-03-2017, 03:00 PM
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I tested your file 3840x1080p GoPro Side by Side full with USB stick. No, in media player the AR is locked to "original" and I can't adjust it on LG. Have to do it externally like with VLC thru HDMI or play with Plex app.

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post #1514 of 1518 Old 10-04-2017, 05:58 AM
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Yes, that's what I use when rendering in Vegas Pro v13 and outputting 360VR to YT, whether T/B or SBS. It works well.
Thank you, Don.
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I tested your file 3840x1080p GoPro Side by Side full with USB stick. No, in media player the AR is locked to "original" and I can't adjust it on LG. Have to do it externally like with VLC thru HDMI or play with Plex app.
This Plex app seems more and more interesting. I am just wondering if it can play from the disk which is directly connected to the TV or I have to add some NAS device.
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post #1516 of 1518 Old 10-04-2017, 06:40 AM
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This Plex app seems more and more interesting. I am just wondering if it can play from the disk which is directly connected to the TV or I have to add some NAS device.
No, it's just a client-use app on LG, have to set up a server host with your content on another device.

I checked this file on the Plex app but it has same problem as USB stick. The LG display seems to lock the AR depending on what content mode is used. When connected thru HDMI to my PC it is locked in Just Scan. In Plex app it is locked in Original and so is USB, so that means you have to correct AR outside of display first. But that's generally just for odd shaped frames like this one which is 3840x1080 not 16:9. I was able to adjust to 16:9 in another Plex client and it has the function to change AR on that client but not on built in app on LG, it doesn't have the control for that. T/B full (1920x2160) might work better for full HD on LG 4K, if you need full resolution. I know that worked on the internal Plex app with a ripped 3D movie.

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post #1517 of 1518 Old 10-04-2017, 12:20 PM
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Thank you very much for the information!
Recently, when talking about my own videos, I am usually making full L-R 4K videos (to be "future proof") and T/B squeezed 4K versions. However, it's good to know that there is another option to make full T/B files in HD resolution which is compatible with the TV & appropriate player.

Damir
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post #1518 of 1518 Old 10-05-2017, 01:41 AM
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Damir- I just got an update for the iphone app for YouTube. It now allows all videos to be converted to equirectangular VR so I can see your SBS full with the VR goggles in 360. This now eliminates the vignetting. It does not convert the T/B so I suppose you would still need to add the metadata to display that mode.

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