Amazon 3D Smart Phone? Will it help boost 3D? - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 06-04-2014, 08:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Saw this link today regarding the probable upcoming release of a 3D smartphone from Amazon.

I figure that 3D needs a shot in the arm. Could this possibly be it, or has the public so soured on 3D that it will fizzle? Hope not!

http://androidcommunity.com/amazon-3d-smartphone-hinted-in-june-18-teaser-20140604/

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Old 06-05-2014, 07:56 AM
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If there was ever a gimmick, this is it. It was tried once before and the sales for 3D smart phone was practically zero. There are some things in Tech that nobody wants and this is it, except for a rare fascination. I'm not saying having 3D display in a phone will be a sale killer. I'm saying if the phone doesn't offer everything else but then has this 3D feature, it won't boost the sales numbers. I recently needed to get a new smart phone as my older one was 3.5 years old and was beginning to break down. Looking for a 3D autostereo screen was the last thing I wanted and I'm a huge 3D enthusiast. If I need to look at 3D even on my Surface Pro, I use anaglyph and even carry a good pair of 3D anaglyph glasses when traveling with it. Having it on a pho0ne would never occur to me.

The best thing for 3D is what we have today, More and more movies being offered with the option of 3D or 2D. For serious amateur videographers, more TD-20 like camcorders available and even more Panasonic 3D1 offerings to tap those small markets. I like having the options, I'm not trying to force 3D down everyone's throat 100%, all the time, every time. Nor would I deny the flat world lovers their option to view in 2D. There's room for everyone.

Amazon 3D phone- a nice gimmick for a niche market but I hope they aren't banking on it to be a game changer.

PS- because iphone 6 won't be available until the FALL (rumor) I had to go again with Android and chose the Galaxy S5. Loving it! The idea it doesn't have 3D never occurred to me.
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Old 06-05-2014, 11:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Gimmick, yes. But, Amazon has a huge ecosystem and if marketed well, it could pick up quite a few millennials, etc. For 3d to stay alive, every little bit helps. It certainly isn't a sea change, but it can't hurt. Time will tell. If this works for them, I would assume they'll try a Kindle tablet next, perhaps.

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Old 06-06-2014, 08:28 AM
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I see it as helpful only in more exposure of the "3D Brand", that is the new 3D generation -post Avatar, that everything is better in 3D. I could care less about 3D on a phone, half the time when you're outside you can't see a damn thing on the screen anyway even with the brightness set to max, who really cares if it's in 3D.
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Old 06-07-2014, 01:55 PM
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I'd be interested in a 3D smartphone, especially if they tailored the UI to function in 3D. From watching the video, it seems more like that's what they're doing than simply making another 3D phone like the LG that flopped a few years ago.

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Old 06-08-2014, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Here's a link to an article from today's Washington Post. Interesting possibilities! We'll see.

http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/06/06/can-amazon-finally-make-3d-video-a-thing/

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Old 06-09-2014, 04:43 AM
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A gimmick is mostly an impressive but useless trick. - but a 3D interface can be far more useful than a 2D one, if designed properly with usability as the first priority. So it all depends on how innovative and useful their interface is (which is unlikely as 3D interactivity is still an unexplored territory), but a successful device could open the road for stereoscopic 3D games and apps.
Definitely the future is 3D interactive content, not canned content (video). In the following years 3D video will be a small part of the 3D cake -the rest of it will be interactive, which means that interactive 3D will be the one that will boost 3D to the masses.


@Barry C
In the link you posted above, access was denied by ESET Smart Security (antivirus & firewall) to the address loadm.exelator dot com that the site was trying to access.
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Old 06-09-2014, 07:41 AM - Thread Starter
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What is particularly interesting in this article is it alludes to the fact that true holographic 3d is now possible on small mobile devices. They cited an article in last weeks Wall Street Journal which talked about this technology which was created by a company called Ostendo.

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Old 06-09-2014, 07:48 AM - Thread Starter
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SoToS,
I've clicked on this link from 3 different devices now, including my desktop PC, it is going where it should to the Washington Post site. It is NOT going to anything that says, or contains, loadm.exelator.com on any of mine. Not sure, why you might be having this issue???

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Old 06-09-2014, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry C View Post

What is particularly interesting in this article is it alludes to the fact that true holographic 3d is now possible on small mobile devices. They cited an article in last weeks Wall Street Journal which talked about this technology which was created by a company called Ostendo.
I doubt it, it's too early for such an experimental technology to reach mass production. According to TechCrunch, the hologram feel is achieved by adjusting the virtual viewing angle according to the detected viewing angle. It seems that the display is NOT auto-stereoscopic, so it won't have the cons of such display but not the pros I was expecting either.
http://techcrunch.com/2014/06/05/amazons-3d-smartphone-is-powered-by-omrons-face-sensing-tech/

About the antivirus report, it popped up only once when I clicked on the link -probably it was a coincidence (from another source) or probably not. Unfortunately the antivirus log doesn't include the website that called that link -just the name of the browser (Firefox), so after I found out I can't repeat it, I'm not 100% sure -sorry!
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Old 06-09-2014, 12:00 PM
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I still think if they could solve outdoor visibility issues, this would be a much better feature than 3D. Solve that first then worry about 3D that way the device can be used anywhere like my mobile phone from 1997, course it just displayed the phone numbers, still it worked. I can't even see who's calling now if it's bright outside.

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Old 06-09-2014, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tomtastic View Post

I still think if they could solve outdoor visibility issues, this would be a much better feature than 3D. Solve that first then worry about 3D that way the device can be used anywhere like my mobile phone from 1997, course it just displayed the phone numbers, still it worked. I can't even see who's calling now if it's bright outside.

Tom,
Aren't you being a little unreasonable wanting a phone you can see outdoors in sunlight? Next thing you know, you'll be asking for one that you can talk on without dropping the call every 10 minutes- LOL rolleyes.gif

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Old 06-09-2014, 12:32 PM
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Not really. it's mostly a reflection issue where most of the light is lost. If they can put resources and time into developing a 3D screen they should be able to come up with a solution for this too which has been an issue a lot longer than wanting or needing 3D.

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Old 06-09-2014, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by tomtastic View Post

Not really. it's mostly a reflection issue where most of the light is lost. If they can put resources and time into developing a 3D screen they should be able to come up with a solution for this too which has been an issue a lot longer than wanting or needing 3D.
It's not a reflection issue, it's because the sun's light is hundreds of times brighter than the screen illumination source -compare 100000 lux direct sun light at noon vs 400 lux of a cell phone screen. Our eyes adapt their sensitivity to their lowest (up to about 1 million to one if I remember correctly ) so the screen light becomes too dark to see. The solution is to include a reflective substrate under the LCD and above the illumination source that will reflect sunlight outdoors (like some kindle devices) which will turn transparent and leave the led light pass from behind for indoor use (like some mirror TVs) -that's feasible.
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Old 06-09-2014, 03:02 PM
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Actually, it is a reflection issue. Reflected light (ambient light from the sun) competes directly against your screen's limited brightness when it hits the display, essentially your screen becomes a mirror as that light is reflected off the surface.

I don't know what the solution would be, I just bring it up because we're talking about displays. There are some issues that won't be fixable like dropped calls, satellite connections far too expensive right now, but if they come up with a surface glass that doesn't reflect and lets more light emit, I'd think that'd be more important than 3D which is something that's only important to some, a non-reflective surface glass would be something that could be used in all phones at some point.

Gorilla Glass is working an anti reflective screen but no idea when it will be released or how well it will work.

The hole is actually treated with anti reflective material, but if you notice, it looks like a cloudy day, not direct sunlight.



Think about it, finally being able to use your phone even on the brightest day. It's not a gimmick, it's just something everyone needs.

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Old 06-09-2014, 06:00 PM
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@tomtastic
With 250 times brighter light under direct sunlight and 50 times brighter light under shade than the cellphone's illumination, even if you eliminate the glare totally, and even if you view the screen under shade, you'll still be looking at an image 50 times darker than the surrounding environment, something like this:


You can barely see the number (at 75% the height) with 1:50 illumination difference - the equivalent of watching under shade (direct light shaded, illumination only by the blue sky in a bright day) at 20000 lux, vs a cellphone at 400 lux.


The image you posted is not a good example, as the grass behind the circle receives full illumination.
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Old 06-09-2014, 07:32 PM
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I'm not sure of your point? You said it wasn't a reflective issue, but that's where manufactures like Gorilla are working to perfect it with anti reflective glass. At some point they'll probably have it so you can have the sun directly shining on it, I doubt we see it as early as next year, but likely in the next five to ten.

The image I posted is Gorilla Glass test with the anti glare, that's all. But you can see with and without it, there's a difference. The cheapest and most efficient means to view phones outdoors is in the glass by removing the reflection.

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Old 06-10-2014, 03:09 AM
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I gave you facts, arguments and examples about the huge illumination difference and you ignored them. I told you about the only feasible solution -a reflective substrate that has been used successfully by poplular devices like some Kindle models and you ignored it. I also told you that in the image you posted, the grass behind the anti-reflected layer is illuminated fully vs the reduced illumination of a cellphone and you ignored it. Instead, you prefer to believe what Gorillas and others are telling you... Use your brain for a change that's my suggestion.
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Old 06-10-2014, 07:32 AM
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Ok, other than the fact that you're completely wrong about it being a reflection issue. Yes, there's a big illumination difference, what does that matter? You're not ever going to compete with the sun. Bottom line: you see mostly reflected light from the sun off your screen, no? Limit that issue and you'll have a brighter screen. Manufacturers are not going to make the screens any brighter, there would be no way to efficiently achieve that, even if they had an Archimedes death ray powering it, what would that do to battery life? Cheapest solution is in the glass.

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Old 06-10-2014, 07:56 AM - Thread Starter
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One thing I really hope/wish might come out of smartphone 3d, if its video is of a format then can be played through hdmi onto a 3d tv. Many people will, undoubtedly, will want to download, store, and play it from their pc or laptop. With A LOT OF LUCK, this could lead to the availability of some 3d enabled laptops, tablets, etc. And, my big hope, that some software vendors- Cyberlink perhaps- would make players which would actually play the video at its native frame rate which will undoubtedly not be 24fps.

I know, wishful thinking on my part, but what the hell. Hope springs eternal. rolleyes.gif

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Old 06-10-2014, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Barry C View Post

One thing I really hope/wish might come out of smartphone 3d, if its video is of a format then can be played through hdmi onto a 3d tv. Many people will, undoubtedly, will want to download, store, and play it from their pc or laptop. With A LOT OF LUCK, this could lead to the availability of some 3d enabled laptops, tablets, etc. And, my big hope, that some software vendors- Cyberlink perhaps- would make players which would actually play the video at its native frame rate which will undoubtedly not be 24fps.

I know, wishful thinking on my part, but what the hell. Hope springs eternal. rolleyes.gif

I assume that depends on the 3D encoding format? If it just did SBS, it wouldn't be an issue. I know with my 3DA1 I can't play 1080i 60 3D content over HDMI, only 1080 24p or 720 60p works. Dual 1080 stream players, I can think of only one that actually works and it's not that great of a player from what I hear.

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Old 06-18-2014, 12:05 PM
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I don't believe it's clear yet that this will actually be a 3D-enabled phone capable of displaying 3D stereo content. The press releases so far are pretty vague. The Washington Post article uses the phrase "some sort of 3D capability". It could be just an advanced 3D-like UI with icons that seem to float above the background or funky animations where you appear to see "around" objects as you tilt the phone etc.
Forgetting the mass market appeal for now (we all know there's currently none), let's assume it has true 3D still and video display capability. One of the major hurdles that hasn't been successfully conquered so far is the very narrow and shallow sweet spot of autostereo screens to get that elusive satisfying 3D experience (only 1 person at a time can view the content, and usually with some difficulty). Add to that the requirement to quickly change between 2D and 3D (as in typical smartphone use) AND, most importantly the need to use the phone in both portrait and landscape mode and that effectively rules out any parallax-barrier type screens.
There's already a product out there, the EyeFly 3D screen protectors, that claims to accomplish this already. http://www.eyefly3d.com/
It uses a film consisting of thousands of individual microlenses arranged on a bias which allows both portrait and landscape viewing of special 3D-converted images and video, as well as 2D content without removing the film. I have the product, and in practice it has a very uneven 3D effect across the screen, enough so that it's unusable (has anyone had success with this product?). Most of the online reviews are one paragraph long by tech reporters who view a 10 sec clip and report seeing "3D". The alignment of the film is key, and there may be manufacturing issues involved- I don't know-they have almost zero customer support. I do think they are on the right track as far as next-generation autostereo, though, and if a phone could incorporate these lenses directly into the screen with a high degree of precision, then there might be hope. We'll see.

Last edited by 3dPCH; 06-18-2014 at 12:18 PM.
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