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post #91 of 220 Old 07-22-2014, 09:00 PM
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Thanks shearer69! Appreciate the effort. I burned the NTSC one onto a DVD-RW and tried playing and it mostly played
fine (noticed a few stutters). However 3D signal wasn't detected by my display so the playback was only in 2D.
Not sure where the problem is or if it can be corrected somehow. When you converted the original file to NTSC you didn't
lose the 3D by any chance?
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post #92 of 220 Old 07-23-2014, 04:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by termite View Post
Thanks shearer69! Appreciate the effort. I burned the NTSC one onto a DVD-RW and tried playing and it mostly played
fine (noticed a few stutters). However 3D signal wasn't detected by my display so the playback was only in 2D.
Not sure where the problem is or if it can be corrected somehow. When you converted the original file to NTSC you didn't
lose the 3D by any chance?
No 3D ok played here ok on my player. I know most of the latest sony players work no problem with avchd 3D
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post #93 of 220 Old 07-23-2014, 09:21 PM
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shearer69: My camera arrived today and I recorded a short clip in 3D onto an SDHC card and plugged the SDHC directly
into my Panasonic blu-ray player and it worked like a charm AVCHD 3D!! My Plasma TV instantly recognized it as 3D
and auto-switched to 3D mode also. What can we get out of this observation? It gives me hope again.

I also found an older post by another AVS member which confirmed what I saw today.
3D MTS files from a Sony HDR-TD10
(see post #106 )
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post #94 of 220 Old 07-24-2014, 04:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by termite View Post
shearer69: My camera arrived today and I recorded a short clip in 3D onto an SDHC card and plugged the SDHC directly
into my Panasonic blu-ray player and it worked like a charm AVCHD 3D!! My Plasma TV instantly recognized it as 3D
and auto-switched to 3D mode also. What can we get out of this observation? It gives me hope again.

I also found an older post by another AVS member which confirmed what I saw today.
3D MTS files from a Sony HDR-TD10
(see post #106 )
Like I said before some players only play avchd 3D via usb or sd card but not on a disc, that's why I bought the sony player after testing with a disc in the shop before buying it.
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post #95 of 220 Old 07-25-2014, 09:13 AM
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Yes that makes sense but I'm also trying to understand what really is happening here and the signals are handled by each
device in the flow.

Yesterday I viewed my 3D clips on the SDHC card on my projector (Epson 5030ub). Panasonic blu-ray player was
playing as before and the projector recognized the signal as 3D and switch properly. When I look at the signal info
on the Projector it was showing this:

Resolution = 1080i, Scan Mode = Interlace, Refresh Rate = 59.89Hz, 3D Format = Side by Side

When a regular 3D commercial disk is playing on the same blu-ray player I see:

Resolution = 1080p, Scan Mode = Progressive, Refresh Rate = 23.94Hz, 3D Format = Frame Packing

Could this mean the player converted the 3D format to side-by-side for the recoded material from the camcorder
or could that be the Projector somehow doing it?
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post #96 of 220 Old 07-30-2014, 10:10 AM
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For anyone interested, I just put up this 3D 15 minute YouTube video of underwater footage taken last month in Roatan with the JVC TD1 and edited with Power Director 12 & Color Director 2. It has the moray eels scenes from the one a few weeks ago but contains much more.

threed123 and shearer69 like this.

Last edited by Barry C; 07-30-2014 at 11:11 AM.
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post #97 of 220 Old 07-30-2014, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by termite View Post
Yes that makes sense but I'm also trying to understand what really is happening here and the signals are handled by each
device in the flow.

Yesterday I viewed my 3D clips on the SDHC card on my projector (Epson 5030ub). Panasonic blu-ray player was
playing as before and the projector recognized the signal as 3D and switch properly. When I look at the signal info
on the Projector it was showing this:

Resolution = 1080i, Scan Mode = Interlace, Refresh Rate = 59.89Hz, 3D Format = Side by Side

When a regular 3D commercial disk is playing on the same blu-ray player I see:

Resolution = 1080p, Scan Mode = Progressive, Refresh Rate = 23.94Hz, 3D Format = Frame Packing

Could this mean the player converted the 3D format to side-by-side for the recoded material from the camcorder
or could that be the Projector somehow doing it?
They will both be sbs/tb but commercial is framepacked with ssif directory, avchd from your camera is multiview in one mt2s container its just they way your equipment reads file
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post #98 of 220 Old 07-30-2014, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry C View Post
For anyone interested, I just put up this 3D 15 minute YouTube video of underwater footage taken last month in Roatan with the JVC TD1 and edited with Power Director 12 & Color Director 2. It has the moray eels scenes from the one a few weeks ago but contains much more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VBAZwcWn9s
very good I now use same programs with my TD1 unless I'm not using menus then I use Vegas Pro 12. At moment though busy rebuilding a new editing Pc with the new Intel Z97x board and an
I7 4790K (Devils Canyon) and drr3/2400 x 32Gb So things are on hold at the moment.
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post #99 of 220 Old 07-30-2014, 01:20 PM
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Very cool video, Barry!! I love the mood you set in that piece - great pacing, too.

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post #100 of 220 Old 07-30-2014, 01:21 PM
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shearer69,

That sounds like a really powerful edit PC. Which video card will you be using?

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post #101 of 220 Old 07-30-2014, 03:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post
shearer69,

That sounds like a really powerful edit PC. Which video card will you be using?
At the moment I been using a Nvidia 2Gb GTX 760. Haven't decided yet whether to stick with it or upgrade to something better. Also thinking of getting a 27" passive 3D monitor as I have a 24" at moment and use a 2 monitor system.
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post #102 of 220 Old 07-30-2014, 04:03 PM
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Thanks guys!
Something to consider on video cards is what they're primarily designed for. I have a Nvidia 660ti in my system and have had terrible driver conflicts with Power Director. After an update, I had to revert to an older set of drivers. When talking to Nvidia support they acknowledged that cards like the 660ti are primarily aimed at gamers and have known incompatibilities with some other types of software. At the moment, I'm having terrible problems burning blurays with my system due no doubt to some sort of conflict somewhere. Quite maddening really.
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post #103 of 220 Old 07-30-2014, 05:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys!
Something to consider on video cards is what they're primarily designed for. I have a Nvidia 660ti in my system and have had terrible driver conflicts with Power Director. After an update, I had to revert to an older set of drivers. When talking to Nvidia support they acknowledged that cards like the 660ti are primarily aimed at gamers and have known incompatibilities with some other types of software. At the moment, I'm having terrible problems burning blurays with my system due no doubt to some sort of conflict somewhere. Quite maddening really.

Bit strange that as I've had no problem like that, though I don't burn bluray directly with Power Director 12 I only create a folder test it then burn to disc with imgburn, so I just tried burning with PD and no problem have latest new driver 340.52
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post #104 of 220 Old 07-30-2014, 05:15 PM
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Bit strange that as I've had no problem like that, though I don't burn bluray directly with Power Director 12 I only create a folder test it then burn to disc with imgburn, so I just tried burning with PD and no problem have latest new driver 340.52
Thanks, I've been reluctant to update to 340.52. I think I'll give it a try!
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post #105 of 220 Old 09-09-2014, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, I've been reluctant to update to 340.52. I think I'll give it a try!
I've had no probs with drivers, finally built my new machine. Gigabyte z97 ud3 MB, 16Gb corsair 2400 ram, I7-4790k (Devils Canyon) CPU, Crucial m550 250Gb M2 ssd for OS, 3x4TB hds and pioneer BD206 bluray writer, and stuck with my NVidia 2Gb 760 graphics from MSI. Re- installed my software and running a stability and soak test at moment before testing it out with some editing.
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post #106 of 220 Old 09-09-2014, 07:09 PM
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It would seem that I now am able to burn a correctly playing bluray 3d if it's under 15 minutes or so. Anything much longer- 20 minutes let's say- will burn but will be defective. Same problem on both my computers. A month ago, this was not the case. Not a virus problem or other software conflict issue. I don't believe it's a Nvidia driver problem either since I've tried older drivers. I'm starting to wonder if it could be a conflict with 1 of the avalanche of Windows updates which are constantly installing. Truely, puzzling.

On the other hand, I'm real happy with my new dedicated HTPC. It plays all my 3d files beautifully through Power DVD14. I find it quite liberating to play raw files at their native frame rate and then play the edited files without having to burn to disc. I held back on doing this sooner because Nvidia's drivers didn't used to support audio through HDMI, only video. Now the drivers support 7.1 audio and do it well!!
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post #107 of 220 Old 09-10-2014, 04:51 AM - Thread Starter
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It would seem that I now am able to burn a correctly playing bluray 3d if it's under 15 minutes or so. Anything much longer- 20 minutes let's say- will burn but will be defective. Same problem on both my computers. A month ago, this was not the case. Not a virus problem or other software conflict issue. I don't believe it's a Nvidia driver problem either since I've tried older drivers. I'm starting to wonder if it could be a conflict with 1 of the avalanche of Windows updates which are constantly installing. Truely, puzzling.

On the other hand, I'm real happy with my new dedicated HTPC. It plays all my 3d files beautifully through Power DVD14. I find it quite liberating to play raw files at their native frame rate and then play the edited files without having to burn to disc. I held back on doing this sooner because Nvidia's drivers didn't used to support audio through HDMI, only video. Now the drivers support 7.1 audio and do it well!!
Maybe windows u[date problem depending on win version, I had odd probs using win7 pro 64bit after an update on old machine last year, but now use win 8.1 pro with media centre no problems whatsoever.
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post #108 of 220 Old 09-10-2014, 08:50 AM
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Maybe windows u[date problem depending on win version, I had odd probs using win7 pro 64bit after an update on old machine last year, but now use win 8.1 pro with media centre no problems whatsoever.
Glad to hear 8.1 is stable for you. I've been reluctant to move to 8 because of concerns with compatibility. On one computer I'm running 7 home premium, and the other 7 pro. Maybe as the programs adapt to be compatable with 8 they become less compatable with 7?? Confusing stuff.
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post #109 of 220 Old 09-10-2014, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry C View Post
It would seem that I now am able to burn a correctly playing bluray 3d if it's under 15 minutes or so. Anything much longer- 20 minutes let's say- will burn but will be defective. Same problem on both my computers. A month ago, this was not the case. Not a virus problem or other software conflict issue. I don't believe it's a Nvidia driver problem either since I've tried older drivers. I'm starting to wonder if it could be a conflict with 1 of the avalanche of Windows updates which are constantly installing. Truely, puzzling.

On the other hand, I'm real happy with my new dedicated HTPC. It plays all my 3d files beautifully through Power DVD14. I find it quite liberating to play raw files at their native frame rate and then play the edited files without having to burn to disc. I held back on doing this sooner because Nvidia's drivers didn't used to support audio through HDMI, only video. Now the drivers support 7.1 audio and do it well!!
You may have answered this answered this already. If so, sorry - but does the Blu-ray burn fail if you do it from ImgBurn or only from within PDirector?

Another culprit (unlikely though it may be) is the discs themselves. Are they all from the same spool or box? Have you tried a different "batch"?

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post #110 of 220 Old 09-13-2014, 09:12 PM
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Here is a short 3D Youtube video of Yosemite from clips I shot earlier this Summer with the JVC TD1, and in all scenes except for the giant sequoias, I used the Cyclopital SBE. This combination isn't really meant to shoot such large subject at vast distances, but for what it was, it didn't do too bad at all- some cardboarding not withstanding.
Now what really needs to happen is for Don Landis to come out to Yosemite with his equipment and expertise and see what he could put together. He's really equipt for this type of task! I'm hoping this might help lure him out here.

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post #111 of 220 Old 09-14-2014, 04:38 PM
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The photography is spot on, but I'm getting a very layered cardboard cutout look to the trees and distant subjects on m 27 inch 3D interleaved monitor. Is there a way you can improve on the separation to get more roundness? That said, I understand that most scenes like this would simply be flat all the way around...
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post #112 of 220 Old 09-14-2014, 05:00 PM
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The photography is spot on, but I'm getting a very layered cardboard cutout look to the trees and distant subjects on m 27 inch 3D interleaved monitor. Is there a way you can improve on the separation to get more roundness? That said, I understand that most scenes like this would simply be flat all the way around...
Yea, that's the cardboarding I was referring to in some scenes. I'm actually surprised that I could get as much depth as I did using the TD1+ SBE. I went way over the limit of what they were designed to do. What is needed is a twin camera rail setup allowing for a very wide interaxial. Don Landis has both this type of setup and the experience to be able to determine the correct separation of the twin cameras. When done correctly, the cardboarding is eliminated and you get the roundness. Ironically, the cardboarding seems more noticable to me when I view it on my 27" editing monitor. On a 133" projector screen, although still present, it seems not as blatent.
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post #113 of 220 Old 09-15-2014, 07:11 AM
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Ironically, the cardboarding seems more noticable to me when I view it on my 27" editing monitor. On a 133" projector screen, although still present, it seems not as blatent.

I think you are right since the depth cues are less on a smaller screen.
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post #114 of 220 Old 09-15-2014, 01:56 PM
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Now what really needs to happen is for Don Landis to come out to Yosemite with his equipment and expertise and see what he could put together. He's really equipt for this type of task! I'm hoping this might help lure him out here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIZIJaF_YOY
Some time ago I've taken some waterfalls with a couple of GH1s and even 0.7m separation is sometimes not enough. See:
at 2:26 the depth is OK, while for example at 3:49 the waterfall is too far away.

Barry, the video is beautiful. Personally, I would push stereoscopic window back toward viewer (moving the entire scene inside the window). This would add some "depth" to entire picture and vertical sides of the window would not be stereoscopically violated (not such a problem on very large screens, though). On some scenes I've seen that the right side of the video is quite closer to stereo window than the left side. Have you applied automatic stereoscopic adjustments?

Damir
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post #115 of 220 Old 09-15-2014, 02:16 PM
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Wow, very nice with minimal cardboarding. I did feel a sense of miniaturization of the people, but nothing that bothered me. Including ground from the camera out to the subject gave a great sense of depth. I will have to try this on the big screen in the basement.
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post #116 of 220 Old 09-15-2014, 02:42 PM
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Some time ago I've taken some waterfalls with a couple of GH1s and even 0.7m separation is sometimes not enough. See:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRVCwNKDCeA
at 2:26 the depth is OK, while for example at 3:49 the waterfall is too far away.

Barry, the video is beautiful. Personally, I would push stereoscopic window back toward viewer (moving the entire scene inside the window). This would add some "depth" to entire picture and vertical sides of the window would not be stereoscopically violated (not such a problem on very large screens, though). On some scenes I've seen that the right side of the video is quite closer to stereo window than the left side. Have you applied automatic stereoscopic adjustments?

Damir
I use Power Director as my editing platform since it is so compatible with Mp4 clips from the JVCTD1. The program- as far as I know- does not allow for any stereoscopic adjustments so everything you see is with the programs defaults. It would be nice to have that versatility. Joe Clark uses mostly Edius- sometimes in combination with Vegas- for his TD1 & HMZ1U edits. Edius has a good deal of versatility from what I understand. Most of my 3D work is underwater so I seldom tackle large subjects like Yosemite, but since I go there so many times every year, I just couldn't resist having a go at it.
If you would like to play around with it, let me know & I could upload a couple of raw clips to Dropbox. The one thing I did do when shooting this was to scroll through the parallax settings so I could see what looked the best later on.
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post #117 of 220 Old 09-15-2014, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crunchy3d View Post
Some time ago I've taken some waterfalls with a couple of GH1s and even 0.7m separation is sometimes not enough. See:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRVCwNKDCeA
at 2:26 the depth is OK, while for example at 3:49 the waterfall is too far away.

Barry, the video is beautiful. Personally, I would push stereoscopic window back toward viewer (moving the entire scene inside the window). This would add some "depth" to entire picture and vertical sides of the window would not be stereoscopically violated (not such a problem on very large screens, though). On some scenes I've seen that the right side of the video is quite closer to stereo window than the left side. Have you applied automatic stereoscopic adjustments?

Damir
That video is absolutely beautiful!!!! Well done I really liked your use of low camera angles to pick up more foreground. Very effective!
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post #118 of 220 Old 09-15-2014, 05:20 PM
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Very nice work, guys. It's good to see more examples being posted. Good stuff.

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post #119 of 220 Old 09-16-2014, 07:58 AM
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Nice video production, Damir. Also nice to see more work shown here, especially using wide IA experiment.

The 3D miniature effect is noticeable but a trick I found to reduce that when shooting wide IA is to permit window violation and pull some foreground into the room as opposed to pushing everything off into the distance beyond the screen plane. This allows some perspective of viewing a full range of 3D and minimizes the miniature effect. This is especially important with wider angle lenses.

The debate here is a choice between looking at everything through a window or the illusion of being there. Agree that a bigger screen or sitting closer to a small screen can help. In Barry's underwater, stuff, it looks about as natural as I have seen personally on many reef dives. That is because he permits the full 3D range, just as it happens when diving. Not looking at the reef from outside an aquarium.

The detrimental visual edge violations can be better reduced by not viewing 3D in a brightly lit room, rather view 3D in a dark room so the pinching out of the scene at the screen plane is just dark black edges rather than furniture and other room distractions withing your peripheral vision. If you can see room stuff beyond the borders of your screen, then the room is too bright. Anyway, that's how I view 3D in my Home Theater.
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post #120 of 220 Old 09-16-2014, 08:30 AM
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Nice video production, Damir. Also nice to see more work shown here, especially using wide IA experiment.

The 3D miniature effect is noticeable but a trick I found to reduce that when shooting wide IA is to permit window violation and pull some foreground into the room as opposed to pushing everything off into the distance beyond the screen plane. This allows some perspective of viewing a full range of 3D and minimizes the miniature effect. This is especially important with wider angle lenses.

The debate here is a choice between looking at everything through a window or the illusion of being there. Agree that a bigger screen or sitting closer to a small screen can help. In Barry's underwater, stuff, it looks about as natural as I have seen personally on many reef dives. That is because he permits the full 3D range, just as it happens when diving. Not looking at the reef from outside an aquarium.

The detrimental visual edge violations can be better reduced by not viewing 3D in a brightly lit room, rather view 3D in a dark room so the pinching out of the scene at the screen plane is just dark black edges rather than furniture and other room distractions withing your peripheral vision. If you can see room stuff beyond the borders of your screen, then the room is too bright. Anyway, that's how I view 3D in my Home Theater.
Don, I absolutely agree with you on the notion of "pulling foreground into the room." As you know, I go out of my way to bring content through the screen when shooting underwater. My own belief is that- with some exceptions, the windows violation rule is absurd. In real life, we see on multiple planes. To get the most exciting 3D effect, the screen should not be an artificial barrier to the 3D content. Also agree that viewing in a darkened room with no distracting objects is best.

Last edited by Barry C; 09-16-2014 at 08:33 AM.
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