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post #31 of 743 Old 03-30-2015, 08:08 PM
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Here's a button you'll find very useful, if you haven't discovered it yet. It's the "Fit" button, and it fits the entire timeline into the visible area of the timeline window. The arrows to either side lengthen or shorten it relative to total width.

I edit with just heads and tails showing, but here you can see the clip thumbnails are shown along the length of the timeline.

If you want to drag just audio or just video onto the timeline, deselect the A or V buttons just to the left of the fit button. Drag the clip and you'll lay in only the one you want.
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post #32 of 743 Old 03-30-2015, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post
... I'm working on a small project right now that benefits by having perfect playback since there are some things I need to work on with timing and Edius will save me the trouble of having to render segments to a wmv for playback to carefully analyze the timing.

...

Can some popularly used icons be added to the user interface or do I need to learn the quick keys to do certain tasks like group and ungroup. Split audio, and others?


I can say this about Edius- It is a more convoluted way to do certain things and editing a project will take longer because of it. But it has some features I have never seen in Vegas Pro that I like. I'm hoping that if I can come up to speed on this by summer, I will do more projects using it. As far as stability, I would say it seems to crash too much and booting Edius takes about 10 times as long as Vegas Pro. Hopefully the long boot up will go away when I stop using the trial version.
If you pile on too many effects for Edius to play without slowing down, you can render just those areas. Go to the "Render" menu item and select what you want to speed up. To "Render selected clip/transitions - Shift+G."

Go to Settings>User Settings>User Interface>Button. The left column has buttons you can add to the interface, and the right column has those already in it. You select one you want to add, then use the double right arrow to add it. The "Set Group/Link Mode" button toggles between linked/grouped audio and video clips, and not. It's a quick way to delete the audio of a clip, or video, then go back to normal.

Edius is mind-bogglingly customizable. Select "Help," then search for keyboard shortcuts to get an idea of all you can do. I haven't come close to memorizing all of them yet.

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post #33 of 743 Old 03-30-2015, 10:39 PM
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Barry,

It occurs to me that we should post the results of our de-interlacing tests from the past week. It'll help me remember them for more than a month or two.

For instance, I said that PD converts 1080/60i mp4 video from my JVCs to 720/60p far better than either Edius or Vegas. I gave PD one of the most challenging video clips I've shot to de-interlace. It quickly rendered a beautiful, smooth motion 720p/60 clip that was far better than I've ever seen from Edius or Vegas. It was a big win for PD.

As Don points out, though, PD's editing interface is excruciating in its unresponsiveness and far too simple, compared to Edius or Vegas. I don't hesitate to use it for family projects, but for something that requires any finesse, it's not the tool. Vegas also de-interlaces the edited video from my Garden project better than Edius. That's why I send Vegas the edited files as 60i and let Vegas de-interlace for Blu-ray 3D (or render out for PD to create Blu-ray 3D with menus). I'm still working out the details of that workflow.

OTOH, if you send PD original JVC 60i footage and have it de-interlace it to 29+ FPS progressive, then send that back to Edius to edit and convert to 24p, it looks quite good.

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post #34 of 743 Old 03-30-2015, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post
But you could do the same thing in Edius, Wolfgang. I'd be likely to put such a clip in the Edius timeline, cut it up, trim the parts I didn't want, and then edit the rest together normally. That would be the easiest approach for me.

Sure you can do the same in Edius, Joe. But as you writte:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post
An approach I like with both Edius and Premiere is to arrange the clips in the bin, do rough in/out points from there, and then drag all the clips to the timeline together. Once they're there, you refine the edit points, drag and drop, and add transitions and titles normally.

And that is another approach then in Vegas. I know quite well that we have also a bin structure in Vegas, but frankly spoken I am not a fan of it. So to sort the clips in the bin, trim the clips with IN and OUT points and import this footage to the timeline - that is not how I work in Vegas at the moment.


What I do is to bring everything in the timeline. When I have everything in the timeline I go through the clips and set the I and O-points. And sort the clips.


Maybe a wrong approach. But it works here.



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Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post
I have used the trimmer a few times but still find it easier to just put the long clip in the timeline and cut out the parts I don't want. Then shove them down line for when I need them. One thing I like in Vegas is I can turn on continuous pictures that indicate where my bad stuff is for quick find and exclusion.

Yes, I think this is a typical Vegas workflow - I do the same here.

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post #35 of 743 Old 03-30-2015, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post
Barry,

It occurs to me that we should post the results of our de-interlacing tests from the past week. It'll help me remember them for more than a month or two.

OTOH, if you send PD original JVC 60i footage and have it de-interlace it to 29+ FPS progressive, then send that back to Edius to edit and convert to 24p, it looks quite good.
Joe, I think you just posted them!!

Yep, to reiterate:
PD for 1080i to 720 60p
PD for 1080i to 29.97p
Edius for already PD deinterlaced 60i to 29.97p that is to be converted to 24p.

Think that about sums it up! Trust us, this works. Oh, one caveat: If you use PD to deinterlace and want to bring it back into Edius, you MUST render it as MVC .mp4 and will need to make a custom .mp4 PD preset. Edius WILL NOT accept PD MVC .m2ts, only .mp4.
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post #36 of 743 Old 03-31-2015, 05:56 AM
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I'm confused. Better let Joe finalize his work flow. I was under the impression you all determined there was no MVC in PD13. ????

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post #37 of 743 Old 03-31-2015, 06:50 AM
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We don't know for sure what's included in the MVC spec. I think maybe I've been laboring under a false assumption. I thought our camcorders were encoding the right eye view of a stereo image, so as to make it fit into a smaller space than the left. That doesn't make a lot of sense for camcorders, though. It would be easier, I think, just to encode and record the two streams as full res files. (For example, the JVC's 34 mbps mode might encode full res left and right eye files at 17 mbps each.) It's only once the material has to go to Blu-ray that the amount of disc space makes a dependent right eye view critical for image quality and storage efficiency. The question is whether there's a provision in the Blu-ray spec (the original one, which all Blu-ray 3D players adhere to) for full res left and right eye views. That might be what PD is doing, rather than encoding the right eye as dependent. h.264 encoding has gotten so much better that you could still get a couple of hours of very high quality full res left/right files onto a 50 GB disc, or maybe even a 25 GB disc. The film "Gravity," for instance, is just over 27 GB. It almost fits onto a 25 GB Blu-ray.

I keep meaning to post the question over in the projector thread. I know there are guys there who have full access to all the tech specs for Blu-ray - and are probably curious enough to pour over the language of the spec to find out what's what.

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post #38 of 743 Old 03-31-2015, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post
We don't know for sure what's included in the MVC spec. ....The question is whether there's a provision in the Blu-ray spec (the original one, which all Blu-ray 3D players adhere to) for full res left and right eye views. That might be what PD is doing

Joe, the specification for the 3D-Bluray is quite clear - see here on page 36


http://www.blu-raydisc.com/assets/Do...ions-18780.pdf


So the specifiation includes a base view and an dependent view. However, the specification does not say anything about the case what happens if an application like the PD comes up with two base views. The player has anyhow to construct two full views - so I could imagine that this is the reason why that does not matter for most players, as you have found - as long as the max datarate is fine (but that is fine for all our consumer encoders).

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post #39 of 743 Old 03-31-2015, 02:16 PM
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I just discovered that Edius won't do graduated automatic adjustment between keyframe points with the YUV Curves filter. Like all Edius filters, it has a keyer and will set keyframe points. It just won't do gradual YUV transitions between them. Bummer!!
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post #40 of 743 Old 03-31-2015, 02:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I ordered my crossgrade copy of Edius Pro 7 Sunday and will receive tomorrow from B&H Photo (been using the trial). They are going to be closed April 2--1lth for Passover, so if you want to order without a long wait you have to hurry. (They did not ask me for proof, though I have it if necessary.) I previously ordered from Adorama, but cancelled since they said it was out-of-stock, and would take a week to get--I was concerned that Edius would stop shipping! Price was the same, though.
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post #41 of 743 Old 03-31-2015, 02:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry C View Post
I just discovered that Edius won't do graduated automatic adjustment between keyframe points with the YUV Curves filter. Like all Edius filters, it has a keyer and will set keyframe points. It just won't do gradual YUV transitions between them. Bummer!!
I'm just learning about key frames, but wouldn't you need to key frame a few seconds of points and apply the adjustment and do this for so many seconds of key frame points until the full transition takes place? Tedious for sure, but you might be able to do this using the macro generator, and then use it whenever you wanted to do that type of transition. http://www.ediusmacrogenerator.net/index.php/en/


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post #42 of 743 Old 03-31-2015, 03:05 PM
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I'm just learning about key frames, but wouldn't you need to key frame a few seconds of points and apply the adjustment and do this for so many seconds of key frame points until the full transition takes place? Tedious for sure, but you might be able to do this using the macro generator, and then use it whenever you wanted to do that type of transition. http://www.ediusmacrogenerator.net/index.php/en/


Sorry, this grasshopper is talking to the master...hee, hee.
Master! In my dreams!
On Edius filters, the keyer wiIl automatically make gradual adjustments between your keyframe points. Very smooth, so nothing abrupt between your changes. Yep, I can do some manual stuff here, but it will be a pain in the neck. However, there's a few other work arounds to this. It just surprised me when I discovered that YUV wouldn't do it even though all the keyer controls are there,

Hey, Joe, and Wolfgang- the true professors here- an oversight on Grass Valley's part, do you think?

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post #43 of 743 Old 03-31-2015, 04:03 PM
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I just discovered that Edius won't do graduated automatic adjustment between keyframe points with the YUV Curves filter. Like all Edius filters, it has a keyer and will set keyframe points. It just won't do gradual YUV transitions between them. Bummer!!
I think it doesn't work because there are too many parameters (possible points along the curves). You can probably accomplish something close (if what you want to do is adjust for changes in brightness/contrast) with the color balance control. There are graduated keyframe adjustments for contrast and brightness there. Unfortunately, they don't give you the fine control that the YUV filter does.

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post #44 of 743 Old 03-31-2015, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post
I think it doesn't work because there are too many parameters (possible points along the curves). You can probably accomplish something close (if what you want to do is adjust for changes in brightness/contrast) with the color balance control. There are graduated keyframe adjustments for contrast and brightness there. Unfortunately, they don't give you the fine control that the YUV filter does.
I have a clip that really needs some black level keying between sections of a pan. It's one of those times when regular brightness/contrast wouldn't quite make it. Just kind of caught me by surprise. I suspect your theory about what's happening is probably correct.
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post #45 of 743 Old 03-31-2015, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
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Sure you can do the same in Edius, Joe. But as you writte:





And that is another approach then in Vegas. I know quite well that we have also a bin structure in Vegas, but frankly spoken I am not a fan of it. So to sort the clips in the bin, trim the clips with IN and OUT points and import this footage to the timeline - that is not how I work in Vegas at the moment.


What I do is to bring everything in the timeline. When I have everything in the timeline I go through the clips and set the I and O-points. And sort the clips.


Maybe a wrong approach. But it works here.






Yes, I think this is a typical Vegas workflow - I do the same here.
I agree about the Vegas bin. I don't care for it, either. I can't use it like I do Edius' bin. The Edius bin (and Premiere's) allows you to arrange the clips in the order you want them to be on the timeline. This is the first order of business after I've imported my assets, in preparation for building a scene or sequence. I usually trim each clip to the rough length I want(in the preview window), then drag all of them onto the timeline in one move. All the in and out points are maintained there. I use large icons in the bin, to make it easier to arrange the clips, and I often temporarily increase the size of the bin so I can see all the assets at a glance. It's just like a storyboard, and I can coordinate clip size, color and other attributes so the story will flow as smoothly as possible.

It's usually rare for me to have a long continuous run of video that I chop up on the timeline. Of course, it does happen. When it does, I sometimes work the way you and Don do. In Edius, though, there's another way that maintains my favorite storyboard organizational style. If you select a clip, you can cut it anywhere you want by hitting "c". This chops up a long clip in the timeline. Once you've culled the bad video, you can drag the remaining clips from the timeline back into the bin. Once they're there, you can treat them just like regular clips. They now have their own "individuality," and they can be organized visually. They can be trimmed, slo-mo'ed, color corrected, etc., just like any other clip.

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post #46 of 743 Old 03-31-2015, 08:55 PM
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Bob- My order from B&H says Thursday for arrival. When I ordered, it says delivery Tuesday! But UPS says Thursday. No proof of competitive product was requested.

Regarding keyframes- Yes, in Vegas the motion keyframming will create a ramp of changes, such as ease to and ease from so you don't get that sharp change. It's automatic as you place the keyframe point on the timeline. The trick is you have to manually put a closing keyframe to a setting if you want the settings to hold. If you don't the changes will ramp from the last keyframe making the adjustments along the way. Most of the time you will not want that so just remember to use a start and CLOSE keyframe then make the change keyframe to begin another group of settings that hold.

Brightness and contrast control is very basic and often is quite inadequate to make the changes for really good image in video space. You also should use a set of scopes to monitor your changes so as not to create "illegal" video settings. This would include a waveform for luminance, a vectorscope for color saturation and phase, and a histogram, for setting the black level spread, Gamma, white level, and offset.

Keying comes in three flavors, Luminance keying, Chroma keying, and alphachannel keying (or pixel transparency level) Luminance keying is rarely used today. Video over video must be done with chroma keying. Alpha channel keying is used for graphics over video. However, a process called rotoscoping will use alpha channel video ( animation ) mapped to graphics as the background. Since we now work in all digital, adding an alpha channel to video ( a matte ) is just computing power and easily done. Anytime you add a feathered edge to a PIP, that will be using alpha channel video.

Generally good chroma keyers must work against an exact color to have good edge definition and a clean key with no noise. These are usually pretty good in today's basic editors, but if you shoot a subject against a green screen, the lighting on the screen must be carefully controlled for the key to work absent the noise. Shadows can cause problems, green glow on flesh tomes can be trouble and the wardrobe can be a problem too. I've had to sent talent back to the dressing room because they showed up with a green shirt or tie. What is really hard to explain is why white clothes is a no-no. Better chroma keyers can key against a range of shades of green so darker green shadows could be handled but a white glare could not as it lost chroma. The trick here is to keep that area in the clear and in post simply color in with the add color like a paint program as another layer above your subject layer. Finally, never move the cameras on a chroma keyed subject unless the idea is to show your subject floating around in space, like there is no gravity on the set.

Last two days I haven't had time to do any work on editing but hope to get back to it tomorrow and use the many tips and tricks you guys have offered. Keep them coming.


Joe or anyone else- You mention hauling the cut up clip back to the bin for correction and arranging. Why do that if it's already on the timeline? Why not just drag the clip into the building story on the timeline?

Speaking of corrections- Sometimes I make global corrections to the timeline and separate the clips based on these corrections like color. That way I can just do the correction once. Then if one clip needs additional adjustments, I can do that at the cut down clip level ( Event in Vegas lingo). Or I can make the correction to everything in a long clip that affects everything cut from that long clip regardless of where I put the clip in the story. Is this possible in Edius too?

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post #47 of 743 Old 03-31-2015, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post
The Edius bin (and Premiere's) allows you to arrange the clips in the order you want them to be on the timeline. This is the first order of business after I've imported my assets, in preparation for building a scene or sequence. I usually trim each clip to the rough length I want(in the preview window), then drag all of them onto the timeline in one move. All the in and out points are maintained there.

It can be done also in Vegas - one would have to use the trimmer, and trimm events in the bin-structure. And import it then to the timeline.


And one can also work in the way where you take the single clips from the bin and import it in the sequence one wishes to have them. But the bin structure is not such a typical storyboard as one finds that in Edius or also in Adobe - and I think that is the reason why people seems to prefer to sort the clips in the timeline itself. It is also a question if there is a huge need to sort clips - a lot of productions follow the sequence as the clips were shoot especially in the consumer range.

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post #48 of 743 Old 03-31-2015, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post
Regarding keyframes- Yes, in Vegas the motion keyframming will create a ramp of changes, such as ease to and ease from so you don't get that sharp change. It's automatic as you place the keyframe point on the timeline. The trick is you have to manually put a closing keyframe to a setting if you want the settings to hold. If you don't the changes will ramp from the last keyframe making the adjustments along the way.

Very true. For Vegas I use the s3D-plugin typically in the timeline, not at the level of the single event. Means that I use keyframes to adjust the s3D-settings. And that works only if you set the keyframes to hold.

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post #49 of 743 Old 03-31-2015, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post
Joe or anyone else- You mention hauling the cut up clip back to the bin for correction and arranging. Why do that if it's already on the timeline? Why not just drag the clip into the building story on the timeline?

In Vegas that would be the typical workflow - in Edius you have a storyboard what means that you can arrange the sequence of the clips also in the storyboard, by moving the icons in the storyboard in the X and Y direction. That can be an advantage compared to move the clips in the X direction only. But there are other ways to handle that in Vegas - for example to use more tracks. And at some point it is also the question what kind of workflow one prefers.

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post #50 of 743 Old 04-01-2015, 06:55 AM - Thread Starter
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I like PD13 for rearranging clips, especially if you are doing a video of old stereo slides. In storyboard mode, I dragged over 800 Realist slide copies (MPOs) to the timeline and could drag and drop them wherever I wanted in a few minutes. Before that I went nuts trying to rearrange in file folders and in the media bin.
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post #51 of 743 Old 04-01-2015, 06:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Bob- My order from B&H says Thursday for arrival. When I ordered, it says delivery Tuesday! But UPS says Thursday. No proof of competitive product was requested.
I just checked with UPS and mine is out for delivery.¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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post #52 of 743 Old 04-01-2015, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post
... Joe or anyone else- You mention hauling the cut up clip back to the bin for correction and arranging. Why do that if it's already on the timeline? Why not just drag the clip into the building story on the timeline?

Speaking of corrections- Sometimes I make global corrections to the timeline and separate the clips based on these corrections like color. That way I can just do the correction once. Then if one clip needs additional adjustments, I can do that at the cut down clip level ( Event in Vegas lingo). Or I can make the correction to everything in a long clip that affects everything cut from that long clip regardless of where I put the clip in the story. Is this possible in Edius too?
A lot of this depends on how we're used to working. I tend to put things together out of chronological order, sometimes even if they're shot in one long sequence. I could see doing this for a dive, if I dived. Cutting things up on the timeline and then moving the clips back up to the bin gives me more flexibility and makes arranging things in the "storyboard" less confusing visually. I find it easier to edit if I don't have to scan left and right through the timeline to find clips that I've pushed ahead. The bin makes it easy for me to organize and reorganize as I go along.

More later on the second question. Gotta run now.

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post #53 of 743 Old 04-01-2015, 12:28 PM
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If you make corrections to a clip in the timeline, then cut it up and move it to another place along the line, each piece retains all the attributes of the long clip. If you make changes to a long clip and cut it up, then move the cut up parts back to the bin, the "new" instances (cut up pieces) lose those attributes. I'm not aware of a way to apply a track level effect to the timeline. Copy and paste between sequences also retains attributes.

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post #54 of 743 Old 04-01-2015, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post
If you make corrections to a clip in the timeline, then cut it up and move it to another place along the line, each piece retains all the attributes of the long clip. If you make changes to a long clip and cut it up, then move the cut up parts back to the bin, the "new" instances (cut up pieces) lose those attributes. I'm not aware of a way to apply a track level effect to the timeline. Copy and paste between sequences also retains attributes.
I'm not sure if this is what we're talking about here but here is a YT video on effects and effects presets which at about 4:10 discusses how to apply one clips effects to other clips or the whole timeline at the same time.

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post #55 of 743 Old 04-01-2015, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
I just checked with UPS and mine is out for delivery.¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Cool. I'm really glad you started this thread, Bob. I'm sure we're all going to learn a lot here.

There are many good Edius tutorials, and I've learned tons watching them. Hanging out in the GV Edius forums is also useful. But we have a unique approach here on AVS. We're all users of more than one NLE, and we don't mind mucking around with them until we come up with answers to sticky problems.
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post #56 of 743 Old 04-01-2015, 02:06 PM
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Yes, Barry, that's exactly what I was referring to. Premiere has something similar with its "Paste Attributes" feature. And, I'm sure there's a lot more power in this feature than I've taken advantage of in my projects.

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post #57 of 743 Old 04-01-2015, 02:11 PM
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When I bought Edius through Videoguys, they gave me the activation code that I applied to the trial version I had already downloaded. They also sent me the disc which came the following week.
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post #58 of 743 Old 04-01-2015, 05:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I noticed that if you load 3D L/R clips to the bin and select all and specify that they are 3D clips, auto pairing will occur. And it tries to pair like names such as L-0001 to R-0001. However, with Gopro, my L and R were numbered wrong and it paired incorrectly, so I changed the Right to match the left for the last 4 numbers and it worked. You can also pair manually of course, but it's easier to rename your clips using windows folders, bring them into the bin and let them auto align.

Also, I have noticed that after you add the stereo alignment, check auto trimming box and rectify--you need to check the alignment with anaglyph. You'll notice that it doesn't always get it right the first time. I've had to move the cursor 2-4 times on the timeline in a clip and rectify, then check the overall click before it got it right. This happens more likely if your stereo cameras are not always level throughout the clip. If you have an issue, use a ruler and align the edges of one part of the image horizontally and move the ruler around to see if other edges are aligned. If not, re-rectify. You can try to align it manually, but it's a pain.
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post #59 of 743 Old 04-01-2015, 06:45 PM
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Barry- I did that test we talked about and with both monitors set to 1080x1920, the error still comes up and Edius crashes. But, I discovered that I can at least switch out of Edius computer to another computer and the rendering will continue allowing me to monitor it on the secondary. The crash only happens if I return to the rendering operation before it is complete. This I can live with. That is get the rendering started in Edius, switch out of that computer to another and then not return until the rendering is finished. Now when it crashes, no real harm done. It just takes about 4 minutes to re launch Edius if I want.


I spent quite a bit of time watching those tutorials today and with the knew understanding completed that real simple project. The project was that one long clip with the bad stuff removed, L and J cuts to make work. I tested the image stabilization and it worked very well as you guys claimed. Plus it was nice being 3D compatible. The video was all shot handheld in a tight crowd and a couple kept standing up and blocking my shot throughout so I did the editing to remove them at those times. It was nice editing in real time with those effects running. I did some zoom in and re-cropping too. A little awkward but I haven't watched that tutorial yet. I looked at color correction and the scopes and aborted that as the result I got looked awful so I need to watch that tutorial as well.
I find the Help file really awful. It appears to take me to the internet and some search engine for a forum where people offer their ideas on the topic, sometimes not related very well.
The rendering speed was about the same as in Vegas Pro for a project of similar complexity and codec.
Here's the YT upload of the learning project:


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post #60 of 743 Old 04-01-2015, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post
Barry- I did that test we talked about and with both monitors set to 1080x1920, the error still comes up and Edius crashes. But, I discovered that I can at least switch out of Edius computer to another computer and the rendering will continue allowing me to monitor it on the secondary. The crash only happens if I return to the rendering operation before it is complete. This I can live with.
http://youtu.be/TLBqvYUX5Ng
That problem is a real head scratcher. I'm glad you found a workaround. The only thing I've found that reliably makes Edius go nuts is importing a PD rendered MVC .m2ts 29.97p file and trying to bring it to the timeline. Edius, seriously doesn't like it. It is fine with a PD MVC 60i .m2ts, just not a deinterlaced .m2ts. That's why, if I want to bring something from PD back to Edius, I output it as .mp4 MVC. No problem there.

I think that for getting a handle on the interface, the YT tutorials can't be beat. Second best is the GV Edius forum. It does have a pretty sucky search engine so you're usually MUCH better off doing a Google search and using Edius and the issue in your search terms. That will often pull up the appropriate forum discussion much better then the forum's own search engine will.
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