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post #721 of 743 Old 12-18-2016, 10:49 PM
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Barry, my wife is the one who pushed for this cruise. I lived in upstate Alaska, never been to the lower section. It looks beautiful from the pictures, but I have talked to many aboard the ship over the past 2 years and they all love to brag about having done this, but when I ask about the weather on their cruise, nearly 3/4 of them said that was the only bad part, it rained every day! So we're praying for sunny skies.
I've been to that part of Alaska in July and it was just fine. Of course, never a guarantee when it comes to the weather.

If possible, see if you can book a day trip on a small whale watching boat, as the Humpbacks are feeding in that area at that time of year.
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post #722 of 743 Old 12-19-2016, 05:37 AM
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All attempts to image stabilize my new Giroptic 360 cam footage in Edius using every tool available has failed. Not sure if it is the pixel ratio or the image in the frame that prevents it from proper correction. Mercalli, each module all fail to correct. I'm back to looking at the gimbal again today, but while it does work with the weight of the Giroptic camera, the lenses are so wide angle that the motors and frame are in the shot. If I mount the camera higher the center of gravity will cause the gimbal to break away and tip.

The Giroptic 360 has two built in IS's, one to correct vibrations which works a little and the other to correct tilt that doesn't seem to work at all.

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post #723 of 743 Old 03-10-2017, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Just discovered a unique feature of Edius (although I haven't tried other editors--maybe they work this way too). I loaded some of my Africa gopro 3D video into Edius to capture some frame images to include in my picture book (still working on it almost a year later-- ). The still frame .bmp captures were in SBS stereo like an MPO file. I then edited them in PaintShopPro to crop both left and right images and enhanced them. Then saved the L/R images as JPGs and combined them in stereomaker as an MPO file and OMG, were they nice. Much better and sharper than the video and look great on my 60" LG. See example below (crosseyed stereo). I've got lots of 3D video, so I'm going to create a 3D still image slide show of them as well. More darn fun .


Edit: I should add that the video is shot in 2.7k, so you get higher resolution frames as well.
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post #724 of 743 Old 03-11-2017, 12:48 PM
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Just discovered a unique feature of Edius (although I haven't tried other editors--maybe they work this way too). I loaded some of my Africa gopro 3D video into Edius to capture some frame images to include in my picture book (still working on it almost a year later-- ). The still frame .bmp captures were in SBS stereo like an MPO file. I then edited them in PaintShopPro to crop both left and right images and enhanced them. Then saved the L/R images as JPGs and combined them in stereomaker as an MPO file and OMG, were they nice. Much better and sharper than the video and look great on my 60" LG. See example below (crosseyed stereo). I've got lots of 3D video, so I'm going to create a 3D still image slide show of them as well. More darn fun .


Edit: I should add that the video is shot in 2.7k, so you get higher resolution frames as well.
Cool project, Bob! I'll have to try that when I get a chance. It's hard to tell for sure, but when I look cross-eyed at the images on my phone, the left and right eye views seem reversed. Might be wrong about that, since the images are so small on my phone screen, while on my monitor they're too big for me to watch cross-eyed.

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post #725 of 743 Old 03-11-2017, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Joe, I check again, and they are definitely crosseyed. What I do on my browser is click on the images, then shrink the browser from the right side until I get a manageable image. I can send you some MPO files if you'd like.
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post #726 of 743 Old 03-11-2017, 01:28 PM
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Bob, as painful as cross eyed is I use it often and it works well on your example. It also creates a miniature look to the elephant, but the 3D is about as perfect as it gets. I might add that the 3D cross eyed did look higher resolution in 3D than the individual left and right 2D images. That might just be my imagination.

BTW- Joe, I viewed it on my 27" computer monitor in full screen and it looked fine.

Personally, I haven't decided to shoot any 3D in 2.7K yet. I'm still working with 3D GoPro in 1080p.

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post #727 of 743 Old 03-11-2017, 01:41 PM
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I might add that the images look 2D on the iphone with the VR goggles. I've seen plenty of SBS 3D now with the goggles and for some reason your two don't come out as 3D. ?!?

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post #728 of 743 Old 03-11-2017, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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I might add that the images look 2D on the iphone with the VR goggles. I've seen plenty of SBS 3D now with the goggles and for some reason your two don't come out as 3D. ?!?
Weird, that doesn't make sense. Could it be showing the left twice. You should be able to tell when just looking at the phone with goggles off. Ahh, of course, since they are crosseyed, the goggles won't work anyway, since they assume sbs L/R images.

Oh, I might add that the miniaturization is due to the fact that I used the wide eye separation when shooting the elephant videos. I changed it later to the regular spacing, thinking that might be the case.
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post #729 of 743 Old 03-11-2017, 02:47 PM
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Cool project, Bob! I'll have to try that when I get a chance. It's hard to tell for sure, but when I look cross-eyed at the images on my phone, the left and right eye views seem reversed. Might be wrong about that, since the images are so small on my phone screen, while on my monitor they're too big for me to watch cross-eyed.
I don't have anything to add to this discussion but just wanted to jump in and say that it's good to hear from you, Joe. Hope all's well with you and don't be a stranger here
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post #730 of 743 Old 03-11-2017, 04:27 PM
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Joe, I check again, and they are definitely crosseyed. What I do on my browser is click on the images, then shrink the browser from the right side until I get a manageable image. I can send you some MPO files if you'd like.
On the phone, the images are just about the right size to be able to cross my eyes and see the 3D image, but they look odd. It's probably just my eyes. I'll look forward to seeing the MPOs. That would be great! Thanks.

Barry,

I'd like to post more, but I just haven't had the opportunity to do anything with video lately. I catch comments by you guys sometimes, but AVS has changed how and when they notify about threads I'm subscribed to. I've missed a lot. I'm afraid my 3D skills are starting to atrophy.

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post #731 of 743 Old 03-11-2017, 04:45 PM
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Joe, of course all of us here are 3D lovers at heart, but first and foremost, we're photographers and film lovers. Several of us have been venturing out into non 3D mediums as well as 3D. I'm doing 4K timelapse, Don's also doing 4K 2D video, and Bob & Tom are into tinkering with everything. Fortunately, there are no mods on this forum so we often go off topic with impunity. Bottom line: You're a talanted guy, get out there and start getting back on the horse again. Doesn't have to be 3D. Just don't be a stranger!

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post #732 of 743 Old 03-11-2017, 05:13 PM
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I'm hoping to find some time when the weather changes. I have a gimbal just waiting to be used, and a Sony 4K camera. I also have 4K OLED TVs, which have the best 3D I've ever seen. Unfortunately, I just don't have any free time now, so I have to be satisfied with indoor activities.

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post #733 of 743 Old 03-11-2017, 05:38 PM
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Joe, you must have gone back to work full time?

Barry missed that I'm also playing around with 360 VR but so far the work is in 2D but I have joined Kickstarter again on a cheap 3D 360 VR camera, Twoeyes. I refuse to spend the big bucks on this technology until the systems settle down to a standard.

Anyway, it's good to see you back here.


Quote:
since they are crosseyed, the goggles won't work anyway, since they assume sbs L/R images.
Ok you lost me on that. I think it makes sense but never having done any 3D for cross eyed the process is new and unknown to me. Bob, do I assume that you have the right on the left and the left on the right? Sorry for my ignorant questions.

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Don,

I've had a lot of family issues and haven't had time to get out to shoot. I've concentrated my budget lately on things I can enjoy inside. I have two 65" OLED TVs, both 2016 LGs that do utterly fantastic 3D. Both are also 4K, and the latest one is a hedge against the complete absence of 3D from any 2017 TV manufacturer. That's a sad state of affairs for those of us who still enjoy 3D. Fortunately, the 2016 LG OLEDs are amazing, and I have an insurance policy against one of them going down with no way to replace it.

Our new house has plenty of room in the basement for a dedicated home theater, and a 22'x14' room upstairs that's going to have a 7.1.4 Dolby Atmos/DTS-X home theater. I have the 7.1 set up already, anchored by one of the 65" OLEDs. The ceiling speakers are all I have to install to complete it. I'll be using my Epson 5030 projector downstairs when I get around to building it. It's going to be 7.1 surround only. I also have a 5.1 surround system with the other OLED in a bedroom system. Since I can't get out, I'm staying busy indoors.

Here's the 360 degree camera I'm most excited about. It's 3D and is getting good reviews. I'd love to play with it, but right now it's not something I'd be able to use.

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post #735 of 743 Old 03-11-2017, 09:54 PM
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Joe- I've been following that Vuze 360 camera too. It looks great. The one thing I have seen with these 360 systems is a lack of good image stabilization for walking around. The technology is great for tripod stationary but worse than a GoPro for stability hand held. The other issue is that the cameras are rated for 4K but that does not mean the quality is 4K when you are looking at a window to the whole image. It's more like 1K horizontal pixels with a 4K rated 360 spherical, if that. The technology is a long way to getting us true HD quality in that window ( 1920x1080 ) . Plus the CMOS blur also causes rather low quality images. Today, the industry is more about being able to see everything in the shooting world, and tith the VR goggles, where you look around up and down is what you see. But you see it at low cost security camera quality.

What I find cool with it is how the family reacts to events I shoot and post on facebook which supports 360 video. I have also done some walk around video on the cruise ships and fellow passengers have been really excited to see the ship tours. On my last cruise I met 3 other passengers with 360 cams so it will become a popular format, especially with the younger generation.

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post #736 of 743 Old 03-12-2017, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Joe, you must have gone back to work full time?


Ok you lost me on that. I think it makes sense but never having done any 3D for cross eyed the process is new and unknown to me. Bob, do I assume that you have the right on the left and the left on the right? Sorry for my ignorant questions.
Yes, right/left are switched. If you put the image on your phone and put the phone into your VR goggles, you will see reversed stereo because of that.

MPO files: Here is a link to more files. Some Wildebeest migrating, Impalas, Lion, Masai warriors jumping. This is definitely a work in progress. I'm still trying to figure out how to grab sharper images. These were grabbed from files on a timeline that had already been processed, so I think they became soft because of that. Going to try some unprocessed files next and see what they look like. Also, these images were heavily post processed in Paintshop Pro as left and right files, then combined and aligned in Stereomaker.. This is a link to a folder of 7 MPO files.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/31ycv6dz4...8lsJP-pla?dl=0
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post #737 of 743 Old 03-14-2017, 08:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Update on creating MPO files from gopro video:

I did some more testing with Edius to see if I could get more resolution out of the images. I loaded up raw 2.7k video set on a timeline of 2704x1524 as I did previously, then I did an auto stereo combine. Then placed the video on the timeline with no other filters. This time the captures came out with more resolution, however, the images were not aligned very well, but Stereomaker took care of that easily. After post processing and combining in Stereomaker the files were about double in size. There is a bit more detail when watching on my 60" LG, but I'm surprised that they are not much different than those I captured from the filtered video on the timeline. One odd thing, and others have noticed this too, a single 2D image is not as sharp or detailed as the 3D images. Eyes are getting a double dose of resolution is my theory, and therefore 3D images look like they have more detail. I've noticed this phenomenon when viewing 3D on my projector as well.
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post #738 of 743 Old 03-14-2017, 11:20 AM
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Bob- when you shoot GoPro are you using Protunes and in native mode so the cam original is rather dull, flat or sepia tone?


On other enhancements to GoPro images- I use the wfm and VS to carefully calibrate the images (each clip and sub clip on the timeline) for chroma saturation, brightness and contrast, to make sure nothing exceeds 100IRE or less than 7.5 IRE on Black and the chroma is beefed up so the Vectors all fall withing the polar coordinates.

Next, I add the sharpness effect and adjust it until just before a white edge outlive begins to appear. If I see the white edge, even just a little I back off until it disappears. This is usually 30 on the Gopro 3 Blacks and 38 on the GoPro 4 Blacks 4K.

Finally, as with all CMOS imagers, the image will blur out when there is motion in the scene whether from camera movement or subject movement. This can't be helped since it is an artifact of the CMOS chip. Better chips have less of a problem but also larger imagers such as the professional and broadcast cameras have less blur as well.

I understand what your approach is, being able to do better with what you have but at some point, we need to recognize the law of diminishing returns and too much effort for too little benefit.

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post #739 of 743 Old 03-14-2017, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Don, I use Protunes when I shoot and actually like the result. The reason I do that is that I think the in-camera processing keeps the images at their max resolutions with Protunes processing, whereas post-processing raw in Edius tends to add layers of rendering that detracts somewhat from the original video resolution. At least that is my limited experience with it (I know you and Barry like to shoot in raw). What I did recently was to load the timeline with video as shot in the camera with Protunes, then combine it to stereo and capture SBS images that I could then post process in PaintShop Pro on my PC. I have lots of experience with post process of my photos and slides, so I know when not to overdo it. So far, I’m pleased with the results I see on my 60” 4k 3D LG. When I capture, I find a shot that I like and then go back and forth, frame by frame and capture one that appears to have no blur. If there is an issue, it’s the fact that I can’t zoom in much as the image begins to deteriorate quickly, plus the 3D becomes flatter. I now do have to put more thought into taking video in the future to make 3D stills from it. I need to get more close ups—a real downside of gopro and all wide FOV cameras.
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post #740 of 743 Old 03-15-2017, 01:35 AM
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Bob- Protunes or not was not the question, rather it was how you have your camera settings set.

Protunes gives you more options, as opposed to "auto"

But in Protunes, you can select native or raw, depending which model you are using, but they do the same thing which is remove the presets for color profile in the camera image process. Barry was quote correct when he offered that it is much easier to correct a color imbalance in post with using the raw file as opposed to using "GoPro color" or auto white balance or even a D6500 setting in the camera. Selecting to save the raw image allows you to add that profile in post rather than in the camera. More and easier control. Otherwise, if you choose to do your image processing in camera, then if you decide something is not right the adjustment is far more difficult to correct since you will have two profiles working against each other.

For example- the downside of raw is that you must add the post profile to all your clips but that profile can be the same settings, unless you switch lighting such as while shooting move from daylight to indoors lighting. If you apply two profiles the two may conflict with each other, meaning if you correct one color hue to what you believe it should be that might throw another off making color correction a frustrating process.

The "GoPro Color" profile in camera is quite good but it fails miserably with underwater shooting, especially when using red correction filters. I would say that GoPro color camera profile can be used most of the time as long as your lighting doesn't change where you would need to add some color post processing. GoPro color profile also does not compensate for anything other than bare naked lens shooting which is likely how you shoot. But for underwater, most today are using red correction filters, and for me shooting outdoors, I often use a filter, either a CPL which tends to cool the image along with glare reduction and chroma saturation increase, or shoot through a bus window that is normally tinted glass, all of these will demand post color adjustments. Therefore using color post processing is the wise choice and raw (or native) makes that much easier.

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post #741 of 743 Old 03-15-2017, 01:51 PM
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Another BIG advantage to using the raw & flat settings for color and WB is that there is a noticeable increase in dynamic range. Less burned out highlights and crushed shadow detail. Furthermore, and also VERY important for 3D is that there will be no disparity between the WB of the 2 cameras. It doesn't happen all the time, but in a significant number of situations, there will be some disparity between the way the 2 cameras read the scene. I'm not talking about defective cameras here. If you doubt me, look at some clips you took outdoors during daylight where there is a combination of buildings, sky, people, trees, etc. and you'll see that this color disparity does happen. To get best 3D results, you will then have to clean this up in post by putting the L/R cameras 1/2 frame each side by side and then color matching them. This can be a bit time consuming and wholly unnecessary if you use the flat/raw settings.

I have no intention of ever using the auto settings again as I find it quite easy to work with the flat/raw profile.
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post #742 of 743 Old 03-15-2017, 02:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay, I'm sold. I will try Raw next time. Having more dynamic range is definitely worth it. And yes, I have seen the WB issue and it happens a lot. I think my YItech cameras allow raw as well. Lots more experimenting---so much to do, so little time...
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post #743 of 743 Old 03-15-2017, 02:32 PM
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Okay, I'm sold. I will try Raw next time. Having more dynamic range is definitely worth it. And yes, I have seen the WB issue and it happens a lot. I think my YItech cameras allow raw as well. Lots more experimenting---so much to do, so little time...
Bob, for best results make sure you choose the raw & flat settings for both WB and color.
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