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post #61 of 743 Old 04-01-2015, 10:26 PM
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Very stable looking footage now, Don. Haven't seen the whole thing yet.

Regular help is a standard pdf file. You must have gone to online help. The help system isn't as good as Vegas'.

I still think the problem with Edius crashing is related to the change in monitor resolution. I stopped using 1920x1200 computer monitors years ago, because I was having too many issues with things like that. I use only 1920x1080 now.

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post #62 of 743 Old 04-02-2015, 06:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Don, your video looks like it was done from a tripod now.
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post #63 of 743 Old 04-02-2015, 07:24 AM
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Don, your video looks like it was done from a tripod now.
Mercalli did about the same and that video didn't need much in the way of CMOS correction either. Actually, CMOS corrertion appears to be necessary, really necessary on the following cameras I have tried.

Nabi
Z10K
GoPro Hero3
Panisonic 3D1
Apple iphone 5
Samsung Galaxy s5

It has not been necessary on my:
Nex5n
TD10


See a pattern here? Sony imagers seem to be CMOS error free.


The Centrum shoot is very challenging. That was about the 6th time I have tried to shoot a performance there over several cruises. The reason is the lighting is all around and my location is the one in the whole area that is lease affected with spots in your face. Plus too far forward and you can only look straight up and back a few feet you will be under the balcony above and won't see the highest performers. I was really happy when that performance came out and the only problem was the packed in crowds on either side of me. I was standing on my knees with the camera at forehead level so there was a bit of rocking that Edius did a nice job of smoothing out. I was impressed as I didn't think it would be as good as it turned out.


I do have a question though- I noticed in my travels through Edius there are several options for output and then render too. In the File Export: Print to tape, DVD, Bluray, and file; why has everyone been saying Edius won't burn a Blu Ray? It seems to be there. What do I not understand? I used the Print to file, wmv for the upload to YT and set the bit rate to 8000 as is default in Vegas and it worked fine. Just curious about why the claim it can't do BluRay?

My purchased copy is expected to arrive this afternoon. I won't be starting another project until I install that now. I may try a more complex one next on my list is a river boat tour up the Belize River Wallace, through the jungles of Belize. There will be some challenging scenes, shot with my Panasonic 3D1 and the Sony TD10. If Edius doesn't do justice on the Panasonic video, I'll correct it in Mercalli first. Of course the work flow will be Vegas to split the video Left and right from the SBSh and then Mercalli to correct and stabilize and finally Edius to pair to 3D and edit. I may not get to it for a few weeks as I will be out in Barry's neighborhood next week shooting!

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post #64 of 743 Old 04-02-2015, 07:49 AM
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Don, of course Edius does do BD. It just won't do MVC BD only half frame SBS for 3D content.

When you get your Edius disc, you should be able to just use your activation code that comes with it on your existing install and not need to do anything else. The disc you'll get is probably not going to be 7.42 anyway and would immediately generate a notification from Grass Valley that a newer update is available for download. I think you already have 7.42 installed, yes? If so, you really don't need to, and will gain nothing by a reinstall from the hard media.

When I bought mine, Videoguys just provided me with the code, and for no additional cost they offered to send a disc if I wanted that also- which I got- but after using the code, it really wasn't necessary.
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post #65 of 743 Old 04-02-2015, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Don, I've been doing a lot of experimenting with my Panasonic 3D1 video and it seems to work best in Edius when using the stabilizer, stereo alignment and sharpness set at 50. I experimented with adjusting the color, but that easily oversaturates. I also have tried lowering brightness to get more contrast and that too oversaturates when using 10 bit color. I then create a 720x60p dual stream for use in PD13 to create a bluray. It's smooth like butter for panning, and I do a lot of that. If I don't do a lot of panning, then I can create a 1080x24p dual stream for PD13. I do not notice much sharpness difference between 720x60p and 1080x24p except for the judder during panning. Edius does a great job deinterlacing the 3D1 video, and I've compared it to PD13 and seems the same to me. I've also coaxed subtle detail when layering sharpness filters. I have loaded up to 4 sharpness filters and set each to 30, and I seem to get more detail without artifacts, but more judder probably due to over-sharpening the edges of each frame.


Regarding Edius bluray--yes it will cut a bluray disc, but after you select to cut a bluray disc, you need to click settings and click on what type of 3D you want, and that is limited to None (2D), SBS, Top/Bottom, Line Interleaved and Anaglyph. I tried them all. I thought line interleaved might be a muxed file like in PD13, but not--I could not get any player to read it--you might try it though and see what you get. The other outputs are AVCHD related I think. The best quality was Top/Bottom for my 3D1 video. All but the line interleaved will play okay in my 3D bluray player. These are my experiences--yours might differ...
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post #66 of 743 Old 04-02-2015, 08:07 AM
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Don, of course Edius does do BD. It just won't do MVC BD only half frame SBS for 3D content.
OK, I misunderstood, as usual.


In new install-
I figured as much on the activation so I had planned to test that idea as you described. But, if I still get the warning popup that says only 26 days left, I'll uninstall and install the disk version and update it as requested.

Quick question on the Edius GUI- Once I arrange a favorite windows layout, how do I lock the layout so they don't change. I had to unlock the timeline and preview screen windows using the shift key but how do I lock them after the change. I know how to save the Layout and have done that. I didn't see this in the tutorial.

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post #67 of 743 Old 04-02-2015, 08:13 AM
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Bob- I believe the only way to use line interleave is with a Passive LCD monitor left in 2D mode. Send the line interleave display to the passive monitor, and put your 3D glasses on and you will see high quality 3D. I use it all the time. I use it with Edius and Vegas as well as PD13. You can't use it with a wmv player or a QT player because they do not output/display line interleave.
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post #68 of 743 Old 04-02-2015, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post
OK, I misunderstood, as usual.


In new install-
I figured as much on the activation so I had planned to test that idea as you described. But, if I still get the warning popup that says only 26 days left, I'll uninstall and install the disk version and update it as requested.

Quick question on the Edius GUI- Once I arrange a favorite windows layout, how do I lock the layout so they don't change. I had to unlock the timeline and preview screen windows using the shift key but how do I lock them after the change. I know how to save the Layout and have done that. I didn't see this in the tutorial.
To save a custom layout, go to the view tab on top, then pull down its menu to Windows Layout, and you will see an option to Save Current Layout and do that. It will let you name your custom layout.

PS: Once you put in your activation code, where it asks for this option, you won't get the number of days left countdown anymore.
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post #69 of 743 Old 04-02-2015, 08:27 AM
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Bob- I don't have the experience you do with Edius as have only really spent one day on that project. But, as for the 3D1 video, the imager does suffer CMOS jiggles, not as bad as a Gopro which is about the worst I have seen, even more than the nabi. But the 3D1 has no image stabilization that works, while Sony has that patented dual optical/digital stabilizer technology. I will test your sharpness ideas in the future, however.

On color correction in Edius, I did take a look at some of their filters and the scopes. I will withhold opinion on the color adjustments, although my initial observation was the same as you described. Too saturated, but I didn't find the scopes accurate either. The same video clip in Vegas Pro was much less saturated and the scopes were accurate. I want to review the tutorials and learn from the experts how to adjust the color controls in Edius. I can't believe a company like GV has a product with this wrong. Time to load up the test video, smpte bars and Macbeth charts. Time to go back to school.

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post #70 of 743 Old 04-02-2015, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post
If you make corrections to a clip in the timeline, then cut it up and move it to another place along the line, each piece retains all the attributes of the long clip. If you make changes to a long clip and cut it up, then move the cut up parts back to the bin, the "new" instances (cut up pieces) lose those attributes. I'm not aware of a way to apply a track level effect to the timeline. Copy and paste between sequences also retains attributes.

Right, that will depend on your workflow. If you like a workflow where you re-arrange the clips/events in the timeline after you have done the s3D-adjustments, then it is better to do the s3D-adjustments on the level of the specific clip/event.


I force myself to a workflow with a clear sequence - so I trim and arrange the clips in the timeline, I do luma and color adjustments. And as a very late step in the workflow I make the s3D-adjustments. If you work in such a way you can use keyframes for the s3D adjustment on the level of the track. The advantage is that you use the filter one time only - and adjust in one step in your workflow all clips/events in the projekt.


I do that in Vegas - in Edius you could use that on the level of the sequence, but I am not sure about that how easy that is (I have not tried that).




Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
Regarding Edius bluray--yes it will cut a bluray disc, but after you select to cut a bluray disc, you need to click settings and click on what type of 3D you want, and that is limited to None (2D), SBS, Top/Bottom, Line Interleaved and Anaglyph. I tried them all. I thought line interleaved might be a muxed file like in PD13, but not--I could not get any player to read it--you might try it though and see what you get. The other outputs are AVCHD related I think. The best quality was Top/Bottom for my 3D1 video. All but the line interleaved will play okay in my 3D bluray player. These are my experiences--yours might differ...

Very true, the deinterlacer in Edius seems to be also better then in Vegas. However, one of the missing things in Edius is the MVC encoder and the capability to generate a 3D-Bluray. Sure you can author simple 2D-Blurays, but no 3D-Bluray (beside the fact that you can generate AVCHD 3D/2.0 outputs and burn that to a disc).


I for my side are still happy with the Sony AVC/MVC encoder in Vegas - especially for 1080 24p footage of the Z10000 that is great.

Kind regards,
Wolfgang
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post #71 of 743 Old 04-02-2015, 08:31 AM
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To save a custom layout, go to the view tab on top, then pull down its menu to Windows Layout, and you will see an option to Save Current Layout and do that. It will let you name your custom layout.
Yes, I said I did that but the windows are still floating and movable individually. I want to know how to lock the layout dock. I unlocked the dock with the shift key but can't seem to lock them again.

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post #72 of 743 Old 04-02-2015, 09:15 AM
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Yes, I said I did that but the windows are still floating and movable individually. I want to know how to lock the layout dock. I unlocked the dock with the shift key but can't seem to lock them again.
Ah, I see. I just always start out with my custom preset and find that being able to move or expand the windows from there is an advantage. You are obviously used to a different methodology, which obviously works better for you.

On the subject of stabilization, for 2D, I use a Panasonic Lumix TM900. It's a 3 chip CMOS camera with what Panasonic calls hybrid image stabilization that's a combination of optical and digital. Actually, I'm not too impressed with it. With this camera, I have to disengage all the Mercalli CMOS features or it will actually add the very jello/wobble effects it's supposed to prevent. Once these are disengaged, Mercalli does fine. However, Edius does equally well. With the Gopros, it's a matter of content. Heavy duty stuff like skiing requires Mercalli with full CMOS. Normal kinds of stabilization is just fine in Edius.
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post #73 of 743 Old 04-02-2015, 09:30 AM
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Edius has two stabilizer filters in the list, but they appear to be identical except that one has the "Rolling Shutter" parameter set to the middle value. Is this a different name for a correction for CMOS wobble in Mercalli? I've seen the effect in videos you guys have posted, and I think I understand why it happens. Since I'm usually locked down on a tripod, I haven't experienced it. Is it similar to what happens with drone video, which I hear referred to as a jello effect? I saw it when the Parrot Bebop I had for a couple of days landed on a walkway. Freaky looking!

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post #74 of 743 Old 04-02-2015, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Wolfgang S. View Post

Very true, the deinterlacer in Edius seems to be also better then in Vegas.
This is all very interesting. I suspect that our opinions maybe based on results from specific content comparisons. Forinstance, Joe Clark believes that Vegas deinterlacer is better than Edius. I don't have Vegas, but am convinced that Power Director 13 is far superior to Edius for deinterlacing. My conclusions were derived from some experiments I did on one of Joe's clips which had very problematic interlacing issues. PD was hands down better than Edius on this clip. When I sent it to Joe, he felt that the PD results were comparable to Vegas.
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post #75 of 743 Old 04-02-2015, 10:01 AM
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Right, Barry. Ever since v.12, I've felt that Vegas de-interlaces my Garden footage to 24p very well. I don't like what I see in Edius nearly as much. And our experiments this past week showed me that, for the same footage, PD seems to work better, too. The real eye-opener, however, was how much better PD converted 1080/60i to 720/60p than either Edius or Vegas. All my tests in the past with the other two provided less than stellar results. But PD did a fantastic job of de-interlacing the JVC raw 60i footage. I think if I'd been able to achieve that level of quality before, I might have edited the whole Garden project at 720p. I wouldn't have edited it in PD, though. The thought of that makes me shiver. I would have de-interlaced it in PD and edited it in Edius. The giant pain in the butt, though, would be having to convert all the footage. Still, the results (both speed and quality) of PD's de-interlacing of 60i to 60p are terrific, and might have made it worth it.

That said, I'm happy with where I am now with the project, even if I had to limit the motion to get there.

Edit: I meant to say I like PD's de-interlacing of 60i to 60p, not 60i to 24p. I changed it.

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post #76 of 743 Old 04-02-2015, 11:18 AM
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Joe- the wobble Mercalli is the same thing. If you have your camera locked down it won't show up. But, you should always disable IS entirely for a tripod shoot as any pan effect can cause an image blur if the IS is active.

Bob- the 3D1 has image stabilization and a digital blur too. You can turn each on in the settings but I usually leave pan blur off and IS on. Neither of these helps with the CMOS errors so if the camera gets a hard shake the guitar string and jello jiggle will show up. Now with Mercalli, I can eliminate these problems. The next project will see if Edius does as well. I was planning to run the 3D1 stuff I had in the Belize Bay through Vegas and Mercalli, but with Edius and Joe's comments, I may bypass that and just do it in Edius. If it doesn't work, I know I can fix it in Mercalli after splitting the 3D in Vegas.

PS, the box copy arrived and I registered with the included number. Got a popup that said registration successful. I wonder why the sticker on the box that says "Crossgrade version" No questions were asked which editor I came from. Was B&H supposed to screen me on that?
Noted that the registered version launches 3 times faster than the trial now.

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post #77 of 743 Old 04-02-2015, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Got a popup that said registration successful. I wonder why the sticker on the box that says "Crossgrade version" No questions were asked which editor I came from. Was B&H supposed to screen me on that?

Question not...my motto.... That said, I have a suspicion that Edius pokes around to see what's loaded in your registry. Typically, people that crossgrade leave the other software loaded...just a thought. I did have this happen once with some other software about 4 years ago. The new software loaded fine, then I changed discs and wiped the other software from my computer and the newer crossgrade would not install, and I had to abandon it since I lost the other software license info. Just make sure you keep the other license info if you wipe the other software from your computer. But then again, who knows.
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post #78 of 743 Old 04-02-2015, 12:41 PM
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Question not...my motto.... That said, I have a suspicion that Edius pokes around to see what's loaded in your registry. Typically, people that crossgrade leave the other software loaded...just a thought. I did have this happen once with some other software about 4 years ago. The new software loaded fine, then I changed discs and wiped the other software from my computer and the newer crossgrade would not install, and I had to abandon it since I lost the other software license info. Just make sure you keep the other license info if you wipe the other software from your computer. But then again, who knows.
Videoguys never asked me, nor did I have anything else in my system. I had an older version of Premier that was not installed but they never asked for proof. No problem with Edius even though nothing else in my system other than PD which isn't cross grade eligible. It's pretty obvious that the vendors are more than happy to sell it and aren't really interested in enforcing Grass Valley's policies.
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post #79 of 743 Old 04-02-2015, 04:36 PM
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... But, you should always disable IS entirely for a tripod shoot as any pan effect can cause an image blur if the IS is active.
...
Noted that the registered version launches 3 times faster than the trial now.
I discovered the problems of digital image stabilization the first time I shot with the TD1. I noticed that all the pans from a day of shooting looked blurred. I had been shooting with out-of-the-box settings, which has IS turned on by default. I switched it off and never used it again for tripod shots.

I don't know if you've tried quitting and then re-loading Edius without rebooting the PC, but it's quite a bit faster the second time around. I think it checks system resources and can be up and running without doing it all over again the second time. I also think the newest version loads faster than previous versions of Edius 7.

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post #80 of 743 Old 04-02-2015, 08:06 PM
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Hey, Don. Do you have any recommendations for fluid heads? Right now, I have the Manfrotto 190CXPro3 tripod with the 701HDV fluid head. The 701 is great, but B&H doesn't carry it anymore. I was wondering if you've run across a good alternative. I can get a 701 on eBay, or a Kenro 701HDV. I haven't heard of Kenro. Know anything about them?

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post #81 of 743 Old 04-03-2015, 12:58 AM
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Joe- I tested both and the time saving seems to be the fact that the trial selection screen no longer shows up but it still goes to the testing phase of the system resources, then after that goes away take awhile for the window asking which project to launch.

BTW- I'm using a fairly fast SSD for the C drive and all my video drives are either SSD or PCIe memory cards.


Can't recall the exact model # of my fluid head but it is a Manfrotto and the tripod is 5 stage CF with a ball leveler. I actually have two of them! It's a nice system that is short enough it fits in my medium suitcase. and extends to 6 ft. It wasn't cheap, but not as pricey as my big fluid head for the bigger cameras. It's a Vinten Vision 100 ( Aluminum). I also have an EZ Jib for it. Wish I could sell that beast!

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post #82 of 743 Old 04-03-2015, 05:54 AM
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Last night I wanted to pull a single frame snapshot off my new video. Looked for something I could do that and found the only possibility in:
File/Export/Other But here after selecting the jpg file format, naming the file and selecting the folder, it said range inpoint to outpoint. So I set an in and one frame later an outpoint on my timeline but it always wanted to build a folder of every frame in the project, the whole timeline, ignoring the in and out I had selected. Is there something I'm missing? I finally gave up and put the source clip in Vegas Pro found the frame I wanted and clicked on "snapshot" and I was done. Is there such a simple thing in Edius and if not, why did my in and outpoint get ignored? I even tried a small range and it still began saving numerical jpg's from the beginning of the timeline.

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post #83 of 743 Old 04-03-2015, 06:29 AM
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Easy one, Don. Hit Ctrl-T. That's drops a still of whatever your cursor is sitting on directly into the current folder of the bin. Click on its name to re-name it. You can add a still shortcut to the timeline buttons by using the method I outlined earlier:

Settings>User Settings>User Interface>Buttons. Find "Create a Still Image" in the left column and move it to the right. You now have a camera icon in the row of buttons on the timeline. Click it and you have your still frame.

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post #84 of 743 Old 04-03-2015, 06:41 AM
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Fantastic! I will be adding the shortcut for shure. Thanks. Any idea what I did wrong on the range from mark in to mark out?

You taught me another lesson, too. I need to make a habit of looking in the keyboard shortcuts before posting here.

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post #85 of 743 Old 04-03-2015, 06:54 AM
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I haven't used the other method you describe. Sorry - can't help there.

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post #86 of 743 Old 04-03-2015, 06:57 AM
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BTW, the still is actually saved in your project's root folder as a bmp. What I usually do is put those in a "Stills and Graphics" folder that I've created for the project, before adding them to the timeline. It keeps my assets folders neater and more organized.

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post #87 of 743 Old 04-03-2015, 07:01 AM
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I will probably end up getting another Manfrotto 701 head (from eBay). I saw a disturbing YouTube video about the Manfrotto replacement (502A). Apparently, it's now manufactured in China and has less precise fit and finish (and stability). I really like the 701HDV - it's glassy smooth.

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post #88 of 743 Old 04-03-2015, 07:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Don, Yesterday, I looked at my Edius line-interleaved file again in 2D, and it would not go stereo on my passive monitor, though there were clearly two interleaved images. A real head-scratcher. This morning. I realized I had used a 720px60p timeline to create it--doh! Got to be 1080p. That explains why the lines seemed like they were double thickness.
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post #89 of 743 Old 04-03-2015, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
Don, Yesterday, I looked at my Edius line-interleaved file again in 2D, and it would not go stereo on my passive monitor, though there were clearly two interleaved images. A real head-scratcher. This morning. I realized I had used a 720px60p timeline to create it--doh! Got to be 1080p. That explains why the lines seemed like they were double thickness.
Shouldn't matter! The player will output Line Interleave 3D regardless what file you are playing, resolution, interlace, or progressive. Also, it doesn't matter what file format it is as that must be declared in the player as either auto recognize or manually set. In all the editors, I have had to manually set the SBSh mode. Camcorder files not SBSh are automatically recognized in the following editors:

I have tested these players:

Vegas Pro only works on output, not preview. (Called 'Line Alternate")
Vegas Movie Studio
Power Director
Edius Pro 7 works for both Player and Rec windows

or any player that offers a Line Interleave 3D output mode. ( I believe stereoscopic player does work too but it's been so long I just don't remember )


They all output Line Interleave on:
Vizio Passive Monitor
LG Passive Monitor
Samsung Passive Monitor

Put monitor in 2D mode, 3D off and put on the passive glasses.

Line interleave does not work ( from my experience ) with active 3D monitors.


These players will not work because they do not support 3D Line interleave output:
Windows Media Player
Quick Time Player
Windows image display.
These can only play 3D in SBSh mode.
Most 3D BD players do not support Line Interleave.

Finally, if using a single monitor, you will have to select full screen and toggle back and forth because Line interleave will not recognize a 2D with windowed 3D. There is only one monitor technology that will do that as I recall and that is a checkerboard 3D monitor and those are hard to find these days.

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post #90 of 743 Old 04-03-2015, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Don, I have no problem with PowerDVD14 interleaving 3D blurays. What I had a problem with was I created a line-interleaved file from Edius using 720p and it created a file of 360 L-lines interleaved with 360 R-lines. Thus, no matter how I play it in 2D using WMV or PowerDVD, it will not align properly to the screen interleaved polarization bands which are 540x540. At least that's what I'm seeing.
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