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post #31 of 115 Old 03-26-2017, 12:02 AM
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Flying a drone is fairly safe, provided you stay legal.

First, is it a hobby drone or a larger drone? If it's a hobby or toy drone (think DJI Phantom or so) then the drone's limits will generally keep you safe. In this case, you can't fly it where others may think you're using them to spy, so don't fly it outside the confines of your backyard, and definitely not in ways tat make it look like you're spying on the cute daughter next door.

Second, keep away. Drones are aircraft, and there are regulations that apply near airports, if you're in the vicinity of an airport, your ability to fly them will be restricted. Also, keep away from authority activity - do not fly your drone where there are police gathered, or firefighters and especially do not fly them in a fire zone or where there is active firefiging operations going on.

Third, never fly over built up areas or near people. Remember drones can fall out of the sky. If it does so, it should not put innocent bystanders in danger. So flying it over a crowd of people is a no-no. Flying it in such a way that people are bothered is also a no-no (I.e., don't fly them in ways that obstruct people's enjoyment of the area). If you want to capture an event, get prior permission from the event coordinator - don't just assume that since something is in a public place you can film it, but have the courtesy to notify the event coordinator ahead of time of your intentions.

Fourth, educate yourself. Drones are easy to fly and the world invents better idiots. People are wary of drones because their experience is generally of the idiots that fly them, especially in ways that puts others in danger, or violating privacy, etc. and those laws and incidents come as a result of people who inappropriately fly them.

And harassing wildlife is illegal, especially in the many wildlife refuges out there - this is one area where you will actually have to consult with the FAA as there are regulations on overflying wildlife refuges.

The big thing is the larger drones are effectively aircraft, and people are flying them without appropriate licenses and permits. (Imagine flying a plane without a pilot's license - that's what a lot of clueless idiots are doing).
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post #32 of 115 Old 03-26-2017, 06:33 AM
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Worf- Isn't there an FAA regulation that you can't fly a drone over 200 ft high anywhere without a license? Then the "experts" I have been following on YT claim you want to cruise above 150 ft. to avoid the tallest trees. So that restricts cruising to within a 50ft range. Is that correct? (Except for landings and takeoffs.

While I would like to own one for some great shots on my travel out west, I'm concerned that I could be arrested for disturbing the spirits in the National Parks. This would be when traveling through Indian Holy lands that I may not be aware of. I know to some this may sound silly, but having been there and around these areas, I know how this is a serious concern.

Now outside of the police issues, I am also concerned with the annoying noise these Drones make. No doubt that's what can attract those who want to shut you down or come up with some other excuse to lock you up and big fines. Years ago our city tried to enact a noise ordinance but it didn't stick when cops were being called to enforce noise from fireworks, car radios, and loud cars with noise making exhausts and even lawn mowers on a Sunday morning next to a church in service. So they did away with the ordinance, but it still would draw attention.

Maybe Bob has the right idea, to get a really small toy that doesn't cost much. Soon the technology will enable these to almost do what I need for video- good stabilized high resolution and a reasonable flight time and distance with auto return to home. To me it's not about the hobby of flying a RC aircraft. I did that when I was a kid. I had both RC airplanes and U control. But today, I'm just interested in the video it can get.

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post #33 of 115 Old 03-26-2017, 07:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Don, I can see the issues now too. At least the Kudrone does 4K and can be kept close within reason, and is a great way to experiment in your backyard. If you need a bigger "boat" then you can always buy one that has more industrial strength.
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post #34 of 115 Old 03-26-2017, 08:19 AM
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Bob- I saw a similar design, almost identical, called the passbook or something like that Kudrone and I believe it is already on the market. I was surfing YT last night in the HT and ran across it. I try to find is again with google history.

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post #35 of 115 Old 03-26-2017, 08:35 AM
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I found this Q&A in my search:

Q: Do I have to maintain visual contact with a small drone at all times?

A: FAA guidelines state that a pilot must maintain visual contact with the drone at all times. There is also a maximum height restriction of 400 feet. If a drone flies out of controller range, it should have the ability to return to a programmed home location. Some advanced drones can send back real-time video data to the controller, but most consumer-level models don’t have that capability.

Q: Are there locations where drone flights are never permitted?

A: Drones may never fly within five miles of an airport or military base. National parks are also off-limits, as is the White House. As tempting as it might be, drones cannot be flown over sports stadiums or outdoor concert venues, either. Drone operators should also avoid flying directly over public roadways and crowds of people.

The National Parks restriction now really puts a damper on my plans. I may scrap the idea altogether.

I also discovered that FAA requires all Drones to be licensed if they are flown outside, including toys!?! I'm sure most are in violation of that rule. Also, commercial photography is illegal using a drone even with a license. However, amateur photography is legal. Real estate sales and wedding and event photographers have been fined for this violation.



I'm not sure I want to go that old route of rather saying I'm sorry, I didn't know, as opposed to asking for permission.

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post #36 of 115 Old 03-26-2017, 08:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Getting a license is easy as I understand. It's just a paperwork issue. That said, I doubt if half the people who own one have a license. My son doesn't and he flies one over the lake he lives on to take wake-boarding pics. So far, no one has complained. His is not a follow-you type, though.
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post #37 of 115 Old 03-26-2017, 09:47 AM
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Ok Bob- I found it-

https://gethover.com/shop/product/hover-camera

Hovercamera Passport.

This might be another possibility but prices are all over the ball park and much higher than the Kudrone.

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post #38 of 115 Old 03-26-2017, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Don, the Hover-Camera is the one that we talked about several days ago in this thread that you were exited about. It's probably the safest to use from a blade injury perspective, but the specs are roughly the same as the Kudrone, and at 5 times the price.
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post #39 of 115 Old 03-26-2017, 01:44 PM
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Don, the Hover-Camera is the one that we talked about several days ago in this thread that you were exited about. It's probably the safest to use from a blade injury perspective, but the specs are roughly the same as the Kudrone, and at 5 times the price.
Uh Oh! I forgot. Well. at least I'm consistent.

The National Parks ban has me most concerned because that is where my primary use was going to be. Have you found out what the Kudrone will retail at?

It's looking like $189 and estimated release in July which would be too late for my trip cross country anyway.

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post #40 of 115 Old 03-26-2017, 05:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, it's around July. They opened up another deal to get 3 more batteries and 3 battery charger for $50. Comes with 2 batteries.
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post #41 of 115 Old 03-27-2017, 07:15 AM
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That guy that dropped his drone in a hot spring a few years ago ruined it for everyone for NPs but it was bound to happen at some point. Personally, I think they should ban selfies at major attractions as that's more annoying than a drone that's not in my way.

My wife saw someone flying a drone over a parade here so maybe there's no laws against flying over crowds, just event stadiums or performances. Surely you would need to be well skilled before you attempted that at least and use a more professional drone with GPS.

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post #42 of 115 Old 04-05-2017, 07:36 AM
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So much talk about these drones here, but none of them support 3D recording,
Its offtopic then.. Unless we speak about drones with 2 cameras or/with modified gimbals.
Anybody use it?
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post #43 of 115 Old 04-05-2017, 08:17 AM
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About the only drone I've seen with 3D (dual cameras) was in Conquest of the Skies. Of course that was custom built, expensive and large using two Red Mysterium cameras. You could possibly set up a mid size drone with the GoPro rig but that would more than double the weight plus you'd need a custom mount. It would also throw off the stabilizer as it's only meant for one camera. That would also shorten battery life. Really you'd have to go with a larger drone and setup a custom mount for it.

In the end, it wouldn't be very good 3D unless you shot close ups of the ground or cliffs, something like that. Anything high up would be better shot in 2D anyway as the 3D effect would be lost well before your ground subjects were in 3D range. In this case I would just convert to 3D in post. Not ideal but certainly much easier and less hassle for little return. If you plan on shooting low level objects within 3D range then you'd have to get started on a custom rig, mount and stabilizer. Make sure you have 3-5k at least to work with.

Here it is:


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post #44 of 115 Old 04-05-2017, 10:26 PM
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No, you don't need $3-5000, in fact i made it from around $400 (without gopros)
I built a 2kg hexacopter, with modified rctimer gimbal. Base is adjustable between 7 and 15cm, so far objects looked also good.


I don't use the short sync cable, just record in 60p. For smooth aerial videos this sync was enough.
Now i build a 250 quad with 2 Mobius Mini cam on it (without gimbal).


I never liked 3D conversions..
Check my friend's work, this is soo much better: http://www.editusart.hu/video3deng.html
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post #45 of 115 Old 04-05-2017, 11:01 PM
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Yeah if you build it all I guess. I was thinking one of the kits that have everything then add the mount and larger gimbal.

3D without stabilizer? I wouldn't think that would look good in 3D.

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post #46 of 115 Old 04-06-2017, 12:02 AM
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Yes, it could work in no wind beautifully. We use it often on a bigger quad, now i build a 250 size for hiking.
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post #47 of 115 Old 04-06-2017, 04:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomtastic View Post
3D without stabilizer? I wouldn't think that would look good in 3D.
It is possible. Few years ago I tried it with my two GH2 cameras:

I did not use gimbal, so it's far from perfect. Namely, gimbal for such system should be several times heavier and stronger than gimbal for one camera, due to much larger torque (several times more than torque for one camera).

Damir
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post #48 of 115 Old 04-06-2017, 06:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Damir, that looks pretty good. How big was that drone to lift about 2 lbs.?
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post #49 of 115 Old 04-06-2017, 08:43 AM
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Is there a RTF kit that would support two GoPro's?

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post #50 of 115 Old 04-07-2017, 10:16 PM
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Recall my lightweight GoPro 3D mount? This little bench could work with a medium size Drone for 3D but as previously noted by Tom the 3D would not be dramatic due to the small IA distance. So my interest is still for only a 2D camera and mixed in story edit with good 3D scenes from the ground, should be fine for my needs. The illusion of 3D in a distant scene like 100' away, can be enhanced with a simple push back using the stereoscopic adjuster in post. If the National Parks hadn't banned drone cameras, I would be ordering one right now.
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post #51 of 115 Old 04-08-2017, 03:09 AM
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You can make 3D with one cam on a 3axis gimbal too.
Just flight straight left or right with height hold, and pair the original video + a few frame shifted version
Works great when there is not so much movement (cars, etc) and no wind.
Gratis: you will have "variable base" which is useful for hyperstereo!
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post #52 of 115 Old 04-08-2017, 07:24 AM - Thread Starter
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You can use a very light-weight Gopro 3+ case--3D printed. I used one I had printed for use in Africa. I have two versions. One with a center mount and one with two side strap mounts. I also have a sync cable adapted for wider eye separation. The frame is made so there are holes for access to the camera button when the camera is normal or wide separation. The one frame has a back clip to prevent cameras from falling out. I found that the tight friction fit of the cameras was enough, though.

I also found that the normal separation was better for most video to avoid stretching the 3D too much. That's me with Masai tribal women jumping--that's what the Masai are famous for...
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post #53 of 115 Old 04-08-2017, 11:23 AM
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Bob- I hadn't seen your final design of your 3D printing efforts. I really really like your options for the wider IA with the GoPro sync cable. Have you done any work where you can show the difference between the normal GoPro IA and your wider mount of the same scene? I'd love to see that comparison.

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post #54 of 115 Old 04-08-2017, 11:28 AM
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You can use a very light-weight Gopro 3+ case--3D printed. I used one I had printed for use in Africa. I have two versions. One with a center mount and one with two side strap mounts. I also have a sync cable adapted for wider eye separation. The frame is made so there are holes for access to the camera button when the camera is normal or wide separation. The one frame has a back clip to prevent cameras from falling out. I found that the tight friction fit of the cameras was enough, though.

I also found that the normal separation was better for most video to avoid stretching the 3D too much. That's me with Masai tribal women jumping--that's what the Masai are famous for...
Yes, its great, but still small base for aerial video, where everything is far away (well, when you don't want to crash )
15cm is must. My friend use 25cm. For far mountains we use the left-right method.
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post #55 of 115 Old 04-08-2017, 04:59 PM
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Relaxman- I used the 9" IA for scenes in places like Bryce Canyon where the distances ranged from 300 ft to 1500 ft. The rig in my Avatar

In places where the near distance is 1000 ft to a mile or two, I use a 39 inch or 1 meter IA where the cameras are manually synced. Then in the center I have a Panasonic Z10K capturing the same scene so when the foreground gets too close for the 1 meter IA. I switch to the Z10K 3D in post editing. I've used this setup in the Grand Canyon, Death Valley ( as in the attached image) the Painted Desert, and in Monument Valley. When I first started using only wide IA, I had trouble with foreground stuff that would not look good so having the second camera with close IA fixed the problem.

I think for drone systems. having a 10 ft to 100 ft shooting 3D range with IA like 4" might only be an advantage in take-off's and landings, and close up tracking. I've seen some experimenters use 100 ft. IA for fireworks but the calibration setup was quite difficult and that was with tripods and laser leveling alignment.
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post #56 of 115 Old 04-08-2017, 10:47 PM
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Nice rig, you are right.
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post #57 of 115 Old 04-09-2017, 08:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post
Bob- I hadn't seen your final design of your 3D printing efforts. I really really like your options for the wider IA with the GoPro sync cable. Have you done any work where you can show the difference between the normal GoPro IA and your wider mount of the same scene? I'd love to see that comparison.
Don, I did some testing early last year. I will see what I can dig up. In Africa, I shot video with both separation and found the wide separation too problematic when shooting out of the Safari Van as it caused objects in the van that got in the way of the shooting to have too much eye separation. The other issue, when viewed on my 60" LG, was the wide separation caused miniaturization in the videos. And, I found the near separation to have excellent 3D depth out to several hundred feet. As I've stated in other threads, I think Gopro technically designed the narrow gap with wide angle to accurately represent how wide angle and eye separation work together to form the best realistic 3D image. That said, if I would do this over again, I think I would take my Sony TD10 to Africa vs. the gopros, which caused the animals to appear too far away for most shots. Same issue you'd have with the drone gopro videos.
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post #58 of 115 Old 04-09-2017, 09:31 AM
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Bob- Thanks for the review on your work. Yes, I do agree that the wider separation with the wide angle lenses can miniaturize things too much. I was more interested in how I use my wide IA camera systems, which is more for mountain size objects and buildings that near object left right separation would never be an issue. I had one shot, I recall in Painted Desert, where everything looked natural because I was shooting over a cliff and nearest object was about 200 ft. Then I panned around and a person got in the shot at about 75 ft away. 3D was still good but he was miniaturized greatly. I was using a 1 meter IA and 12mm lenses. The real advantage of the wider IA and wide angle lenses for large mountain ranges is to get depth separation between objects that are 1000 and 2000 ft away. If you don't use wide IA with wide angle lenses, everything just looks like 2D pushed back from the viewing screen plane. With zoom lenses, you can also achieve depth separation and add solid shape to distant objects like your wildlife. In my case, I have two choices for zoom telephoto wide IA. The Nex 5n with 200mm lenses at full zoom for stills, no action. Or, use two TD10's with the sync cable controller that syncs the zoom lenses of the two cameras. These controllers for the TD10 are hard to find and no longer made.

My interest was to use the GoPro wider angle wider IA setup to gain genlock advantage for those mountain ranges.

If you left your TD 10 at home, you must have traveled light. I carry most all my 3D cameras on trips, which is why I can't fly, easily. Two large camera bags on rollers, and a full backpack.

My 3D videos and more
Don Landis HT System: Projector Sony VPL VW665ES Players: Samsung UBD K8500 OPPO BD93 Sony BDP S6200 All Regions Player Denon AVR 4311ci, 7.1 JBL Professional series and Klipsch PS3, XBOX360, Dish VIP722K; 3D Edit Suite: Edius7.53, Vegas Pro v13, Power Director15, i7-950, LG 3D TV DM2752
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post #59 of 115 Old 04-10-2017, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
Damir, that looks pretty good. How big was that drone to lift about 2 lbs.?
2 lbs? My cameras (2x GH2) with all equipment (battery, bar, ...) was about 3.3kg, so about 7 lbs.
It was quite big, but I can't remember exact size.

Damir
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post #60 of 115 Old 04-10-2017, 08:10 AM
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You can make 3D with one cam on a 3axis gimbal too. Just flight straight left or right with height hold, and pair the original video + a few frame shifted version
Works great when there is not so much movement (cars, etc) and no wind.
Gratis: you will have "variable base" which is useful for hyperstereo!
I agree. You can see my video "Damir_Vrancic_3D_On_The_Go_3840x1080p30_LR.mp 4" on the following page:
http://dsc.ijs.si/damir.vrancic/down_3d/Movies/
(note: right-click it and select "Save Link As...").

It was taken from my car by Panasonic GH4 and from "not my airplane" by mobile LG G4.

You can check other files as well. I did not have time to put some of them on YT yet.

Damir
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