Edison 3D - Make ANY TV a 3DTV - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 24 Old 07-22-2016, 12:20 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
DanmanMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 2
Edison 3D - Make ANY TV a 3DTV

Has anyone else seen this device on Indiegogo now? I think it's cool (though probably would've done better at the dawn of 3D TV back in 2010). It's perfect for someone like my dad who has a great plasma TV that he can enjoy for years to come, but would love to add 3D-capability to it for far less than buying a new TV. The only downside I see is that you need to use their proprietary glasses (no bluetooth), but $20-ish a pair isn't too bad. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/e...ny-tv-a-3dtv#/
DanmanMan is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 24 Old 07-24-2016, 11:12 AM
Senior Member
 
relaxman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 318
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 11
blablabla
HOW this work?
For active we need 120Hz minimum for flickerfree result.
Don't we?
relaxman is offline  
post #3 of 24 Old 07-24-2016, 06:26 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
cakefoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 2,037
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 183 Post(s)
Liked: 74
Terrible.
cakefoo is offline  
 
post #4 of 24 Old 07-24-2016, 06:40 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
3DBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Southeastern Michigan
Posts: 1,378
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 476 Post(s)
Liked: 161
I bought the early version of this technology 5 years ago from the inventor Jonathan Alexander called the VIP Theater (and I'm not talking about the 3D wizard, which is still available and uses colored glasses). He sold some units then never really gained any momentum because 3D TV was dying. His unit used the scan rate of a monitor/TV and divides it in half with each eye, and you will need shutter glasses. I could use 3D blurays from a 3D bluray player, and it would show the 3D, but the ghosting of seeing both the left and the right images was too much I had a 60hz 2D TV at the time), and if it didn't ghost, it created too much flicker. I tried it on a 120hz monitor and it worked okay, but very, very dark. It would definitely need a more up-to-date 120hz TV to work right, which most LCD, LEDs and Plasma TVs do these days. The other issue is the brightness of normal TVs is not usually bright enough for 3D because the glasses take away a fair amount of brightness and 3D TVs usually go into an enhanced brightness mode to make up for this. I finally sent it back, as it was just too dark and ghosty. Again, what I saw was version 1 of this technology, and I will give it a fair shake when they finally ship it.

That said, using it as a 2D to 3D converter is probably not going to be much more than pushing the 2D image back into a 3D image plane without much 3D, but again without seeing a working copy it's hard to judge. From looking the game demo, they are using bottom up 2D->3D conversion. In other words, in real life objects at the bottom of a screen are closer to you than at the top and the computing chip will use this as a way to convert. The problem is for the chip to guess at where the horizon or infinity is. If it doesn't guess right, then the screen will look like it's warping up the middle and back out again. There are other algorithms, but this is the most popular.

Another concern, weirdly enough, is the price point for the unit. It's very low, which tells me they are hoping you will still like what you see, though not great, because it's relatively cheap. What I don't like about this stuff is, if it's not good (or suffers the brightness issue), it will just put another nail into the 3D coffin. Let's hope it is good

If you want to know what Jonathan Alexander is doing these days, you can find him on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanalexander3

His 3D converters are still be sold in Canada: http://www.consignia.ca/brands/3D%252dVIP.html

Reviews on Avsforum were relatively good IF your TV or projector was bright enough to handle 3D. Again, a big if, and I have to think the Indio gadget will suffer the same issue.
3DBob is offline  
post #5 of 24 Old 07-25-2016, 06:40 AM
Member
 
danlshane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by relaxman View Post
blablabla
HOW this work?
For active we need 120Hz minimum for flickerfree result.
Don't we?
I would expect that requirement, especially on LCD/LED sets. I used the VIP 3D-Now/3-D Theater for a time on my Vizio 4K LED set and found the 60Hz flicker too annoying to continue use. I sold the outfit on eBay a few weeks ago.

Remember, HDTVs that are lableled as 120Hz are just advertising an "effective refresh rate," not true 120Hz input. I applaud Edison's continued support of 3-D, but unless it is flicker-free it isn't going to mean much. If they have figured out how to eliminate the flicker I would buy a unit for every TV in my house!
danlshane is offline  
post #6 of 24 Old 07-27-2016, 05:46 AM
Member
 
danlshane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Direct communication with the Edison 3-D engineers provides this response:
Edison 3D can work on 60Hz any TV with in the HDMI limits,and only can work with our patent 3D glasses. For flicker problem,It varies with many factors, especially screen brightness, screen size and room illumination. The image may still flicker even at 120 Hz screen refresh if the image is not updated in the proper way. Decreasing the level of ambient illumination in the room can reduce the room flicker to imperceptible levels. Reducing screen luminosity with brightness and contrast controls will reduce image flicker to low or imperceptible levels.

We know the other product like "VIP 3-D Theater", it is different market between Edison 3D and VIP 3-D we think.
Once I see reviews from actual users I may gave the gadget a try.
danlshane is offline  
post #7 of 24 Old 07-27-2016, 06:01 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
GreySkies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 3,996
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 620 Post(s)
Liked: 436
It looks like the 3D version of this—
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	projection.png
Views:	982
Size:	235.7 KB
ID:	1567601  
GreySkies is offline  
post #8 of 24 Old 07-27-2016, 07:36 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
DanmanMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 2
I'm not sure what you're talking about with the 60 Hz output being an issue. Isn't that the refresh limit of the HDMI 1.4 standard that introduced 3D and that this model uses?
DanmanMan is offline  
post #9 of 24 Old 07-27-2016, 07:55 AM
Member
 
danlshane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanmanMan View Post
I'm not sure what you're talking about with the 60 Hz output being an issue. Isn't that the refresh limit of the HDMI 1.4 standard that introduced 3D and that this model uses?
I am concerned that the 60 Hz barrier means that each eye only receives 30 Hz. That was a problem with the VIP system, and it was impossible to tone down the flicker well enough to remove the distraction.

But if the glasses can deliver 60 Hz to each eye that would be on par with current built-in active 3-D TVs. I am hoping that is the case.
danlshane is offline  
post #10 of 24 Old 07-27-2016, 01:52 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
cakefoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 2,037
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 183 Post(s)
Liked: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by danlshane View Post
I am concerned that the 60 Hz barrier means that each eye only receives 30 Hz. That was a problem with the VIP system, and it was impossible to tone down the flicker well enough to remove the distraction.

But if the glasses can deliver 60 Hz to each eye that would be on par with current built-in active 3-D TVs. I am hoping that is the case.
If 2DTV's could do that, they'd advertise 3D support officially.

The most a 120hz-capable 2D HDTV will do is hold on a 24/30/60fps frame for 5/4/2hz respectively, and interpolation (drawing fake frames for smoother motion).

Edit:
Edison 3D only outputs a 60hz signal:


A 2DTV is NOT going to convert that to 60hz per eye.

Last edited by cakefoo; 07-27-2016 at 02:13 PM.
cakefoo is offline  
post #11 of 24 Old 07-28-2016, 11:19 AM
Member
 
danlshane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakefoo View Post
If 2DTV's could do that, they'd advertise 3D support officially.

The most a 120hz-capable 2D HDTV will do is hold on a 24/30/60fps frame for 5/4/2hz respectively, and interpolation (drawing fake frames for smoother motion).

Edit:
Edison 3D only outputs a 60hz signal:


A 2DTV is NOT going to convert that to 60hz per eye.
And that fact is what makes me suspect that flicker is going to be a problem with the gizmo. Hopefully we will get real world user reports in December that assert otherwise, but I'm not expecting that.
danlshane is offline  
post #12 of 24 Old 07-28-2016, 12:30 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
3DBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Southeastern Michigan
Posts: 1,378
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 476 Post(s)
Liked: 161
The VIP worked at 60hz, and it was not usable at that scan rate. Not only do you get flicker, you have to live with a dark image, since to reduce flicker you have to be in a darker room with a darker screen so your eyes blend the L/R images better. Again, I think that's why it's being sold so cheap.
3DBob is offline  
post #13 of 24 Old 08-01-2016, 01:08 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
DanmanMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 2
What does a 3D Blu-ray player output? Is it more than 60 Hz?
DanmanMan is offline  
post #14 of 24 Old 08-01-2016, 01:53 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
3DBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Southeastern Michigan
Posts: 1,378
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 476 Post(s)
Liked: 161
Here's a pretty basic explanation of 3D home TV requirements:
http://www.spectracal.com/downloads/...the%20Home.pdf

120hz or 240hz according to this document.
3DBob is offline  
post #15 of 24 Old 08-01-2016, 08:45 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Worf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,520
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 569 Post(s)
Liked: 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanmanMan View Post
What does a 3D Blu-ray player output? Is it more than 60 Hz?
A standard 3d Blu Ray player will output 1080p24 frame packing, or 720p60 frame packing. Frame packing is where two full resolution 1080p or 720p frames (left eye and right eye) are sent as a single frame of video.
Worf is offline  
post #16 of 24 Old 08-02-2016, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
DanmanMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 2
Thanks for the explanations, both of you. If I'm reading this all correctly, it's the 3D TV that interprets that packed frames to create the 120 or 240 Hz image to then give 60 or 120 Hz to each eye. If that's the case, I think that any aftermarket 3D attachment like this Edison would be limited to 60 Hz just because of the HDMI 60 Hz limitation.
DanmanMan is offline  
post #17 of 24 Old 12-13-2016, 11:46 AM
Member
 
danlshane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 9
It appears this device has begun to ship, and a couple of folks on the IndieGoGo site are offering favorable comments (as long as they remember to douse all the lights in the room to minimize flicker.

Anyone here going to give it a whirl?

--
Dan Shane
LG 65UH8500
danlshane is offline  
post #18 of 24 Old 12-13-2016, 01:57 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
3DBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Southeastern Michigan
Posts: 1,378
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 476 Post(s)
Liked: 161
Looks like a lot of people are having a hard time getting it to work properly. Several that had success, used the device as an side-by-side player on their already 3D TV. Of course, that is going to work just fine. Still looks like lots of flickering issues and dim TV image, though. They really need to give this to people with the right equipment and setup so they can demo-review for everyone. The problem with all of this type of technology is that the average user just doesn't get the fine points of what it takes to create a watchable 3D image (adjust brightness, contrast, color and gamma) on their TV, and that will kill any type of gadget like this over time.
3DBob is offline  
post #19 of 24 Old 01-31-2017, 09:57 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Just letting you know I'm not the creator of the project. I'm just a regular backer trying to help spread the word of this inexpensive solution to converting any 2DTV to a 3DTV. Look through the description on the product page and make up your mind whether you want to buy the product or not.

I am an admin and creator of the boards for Edison 3D (wanted there to be a page where people can communicate in a more easier and organized manner.) I have created some Help/FAQs, Installation Guide and some other threads that will help you out with setting up Edison 3D.

I'll be talking about some of the features, pros and cons in this post.

Features:
- No need for a 3D TV or 3D Projector.
- 2D to 3D conversion.
- Adjust Depth of Field.
- With 3D glasses, simply focus on having a clear 3D image.
- Peripherals: 2 HDMI 1.4a (1 output and 1 input), USB 2.0 (charging only)
- 3D Format: Side by Side (Half), Top and Bottom, Frame Packing
- With IR remote.
- Formats: 2D Bypass, 3D Bypass, 2D to 3D Converter, 3D Side by Side, 3D Top and Bottom
- 3D Glasses: Active Shutter Glasses
- Resolution Support: FHD 1080P 60Hz, HD 720P 60Hz
- 3D Image: 6 Stage Adjustment for Depth of Field
- Requires Edison 3D Active Shutter RF (2.4GHz) Glasses
- The most affordable solution when it comes to console + 1 pair of glasses. (Still pretty affordable if you add 2 more..3 total glasses. $78+179+shipping = $257)

Cons:
- Constant flickering on glasses. This can be avoided by adjusting TV backlight as well closing shades/blinds (should be enough to keep the room just dark enough for no flickering). Constant flickering is an issue with devices similar like this (2D to 3D converters).
- No instruction guide but I have created a forum and made an Installation Guide as well as Help/FAQ (I'll link the forum down) that should help you with setting up.
- The only glasses that are compatible at this moment are the glasses they have created. Their glasses are active shutter and run RF 2.4GHz but no other glasses in the market work with their product. A pair of glasses cost $40 on Indiegogo.
- Glasses have a battery life of about 3 hours.
- No power button on console. Just remote. Lose the remote and you are out of luck.
- Takes some time to setup and figure things out. If you have issues, the forum has a lot of helpful threads.
- No firmware support.

Pros:
- The 3D quality is pretty great. It's as comparable as a 3DTV (minus the flickering which can be avoided if you take the steps I've mentioned.)
- You can watch native 3D Blu-Rays as well as play native 3D Blu-ray games. Native 3D tested on PC, PS3, PS4, Xbox 360 and Xbox One.
- Many options for adjustment.
- Comes with IR remote. Other similar products require you to be by the product.
- It's very inexpensive compared to similar products out there.

I know I mentioned more cons than pros but the 3D quality is great and it's very inexpensive compared to other 2DTV to 3DTV converters.

edison3d(dot)boards(dot)net
edison3D is offline  
post #20 of 24 Old 02-01-2017, 05:53 AM
Advanced Member
 
MLXXX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 506
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 195 Post(s)
Liked: 94
A drawback that has not been mentioned is that the timing disparity between presentation of the Left and Right 3D views is doubled compared with a regular 3D TV.

Public theatre

At a RealD public theatre, each frame of a 24fps 3D movie is shown with a 3D alternation rate of 144Hz as a "triple flash": Left Right Left Right Left Right. This is a very smooth presentation of 3D and very few people notice that the Left and Right views are slightly out of phase with each other. Left and Right are out of kilter by 1/144th sec or 6.94mS.


Using a home 3D active glasses TV

With a typical home active 3D TV each frame of a 24fps movie is shown at a 3D alternation rate of 120Hz. This is a less satisfactory alternation rate than 144Hz, especially at higher brightness levels, and is a reason some people prefer passive glasses 3D for home TV screen viewing. (With passive glasses 3D at home, the 3D image looks rock solid as Left and Right are presented to the eyes simultaneously. When the next frame comes along, both eyes see it at the same time.)


Using a 2D home TV for 3D

With the system under discussion, the 2D TV will receive a 24fps movie converted to 60fps and will alternate that at 60Hz, half the rate of a regular active 3D TV. The disparity in timing of presenting the Left and Right views will be 1/60th sec or 16.6mS.

How does a 3D Left Right time disparity appear, to a person sensitive to it? Parts of the picture shimmer, and look watery, similar to a mirage effect over a hot road. The effect occurs if there is movement, e.g. a pan of the camera, or a person walking. Individual sensitivity to this effect varies greatly.



I'd see this system as a novelty, but still able to provide a 3D effect. It will work, but will have the drawback of flicker (even if the annoyance of the flicker can be reduced by reducing the brightness of the screen to a dull level). And as I've mentioned, for some people there will be a shimmering or watery effect because of the timing offset between the presentation of the Left and Right views.

This type of approach would be much more successful with a screen that can accept 2D input at 120Hz and display it at 120Hz, such as certain computer monitors.

Sorry to sound negative but I think for many people it might make more sense to purchase a second hand 3D TV than to try to operate an existing 2D TV with a 3D alternation rate of only 60Hz.

(For buyers with plenty of cash looking to buy a new TV and wanting 3D, there should still be 2016 3D models available for purchase, even after 2017 models (lacking 3D) start appearing in the showrooms. I for one have no intention of buying a 2017 model TV set that lacks 3D!)
MLXXX is offline  
post #21 of 24 Old 02-01-2017, 11:37 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 0
I'm not a technical person like you (just inderstand the basics.)

Normally, I say products like this are for people who can't afford or don't feel like spending too much money on the best setup.

If you have a 720p/1080p dumb TV or smart TV with just app store and no other technical features such as HDMI-CEC, ARC etc...then I think you would either like or love this product.

I prefer watching my 3D Blu-ray version of Avatar with this product than just a normal 2DTV. It just becomes more visually stunning to look at and a much more enjoyable experience. Pixar movies, Avatar etc are just more yummy with this product than just 2D Blu-ray.

If you can get past some of its flaws I think its a wonderful product. Much better than watching 2D content.
edison3D is offline  
post #22 of 24 Old 02-01-2017, 05:19 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tomtastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 2,227
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 866 Post(s)
Liked: 306
So this is like an out of the box active shutter system? Like taking the tech out of an active TV and this device adds the active 3D? So there's the refresh rate issue if it's too low, anyone tested one out? Could you use this on a projector?

This line intentionally left blank.
tomtastic is online now  
post #23 of 24 Old 02-01-2017, 06:41 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomtastic View Post
So this is like an out of the box active shutter system? Like taking the tech out of an active TV and this device adds the active 3D? So there's the refresh rate issue if it's too low, anyone tested one out? Could you use this on a projector?
Yes, this uses active shutter glasses (RF 2.4GHz).

And it does work on projectors. Though, I have not tried it (don't have a projector.) They created a video on youtube that shows them using a projector.

I'm not a very technical person (only understand the basics of how things work). But if you are like me, I think you would enjoy the experience once you get past some issues.

Like I said, I prefer watching 3D Blu-rays with my dumb 32inch 2DTV than watching 2D movies on it. It's just a very beautiful experience imo.

The very technical people out here though...would probably not like this product. They have better eyes than I do, see every little detail would get annoyed of some of the issues etc. So, for them I think it's best to go with HDFury IV or Nvidia 3D Vision if they don't want spend money on a 3DTV. HDFury IV is around $399 (without glasses) but offers way more features than this product including one feature I would love to have called SimulView (allows you to play split screen games as one screen with glasses), supports more glasses not exclusive by company and firmware support. Nvidia 3D Vision glasses kit cost $129 (not sure what else glasses work with nvidia)+cost of Nvidia 3D Vision Ready display brings it to about the same price as HDFury IV or higher.
edison3D is offline  
post #24 of 24 Old 02-01-2017, 08:00 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomtastic View Post
So this is like an out of the box active shutter system? Like taking the tech out of an active TV and this device adds the active 3D? So there's the refresh rate issue if it's too low, anyone tested one out? Could you use this on a projector?
I forgot to mention. If you are going to get this for a projector, ask the creator for glasses for projector. It's different than the standard glasses.

Also, for those who have not checked yet. The indiegogo page added more in stock. Plus, added Edison 3D with 4x Glasses for $263+Shipping.
edison3D is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply 3D Source Components

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off