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post #1 of 23 Old 02-01-2017, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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3D Monitors Disappearing?

Just out of curiosity, I thought I'd look and see what the current state of 3D monitors is. Unfortunately- but not surprisingly- 27" Asus 3D monitors seem to be gone from Amazon and everywhere else as well as the BenQ 27" 3D monitor. Both of these use the Nvidia 3D Vision active system. I- fortunately- own both monitors.

Looks like monitors are dropping 3D too. I kind of thought that they might hold on longer than the TV displays due to gamers, but doesn't look like that's the case. Very sad! It's going to be increasingly hard for any new people who want to get into shooting and editing 3D- not that there are a lot of us anyway. Sure hope the projector makers don't start to abandon 3D or it will be majorly FUBAR.
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post #2 of 23 Old 02-01-2017, 11:10 AM
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Yup, I'm with you Barry. The trend seems to buy smaller 3D 4K TVs and use them as a monitor since most of the newer ones have a PC input. Since there is no spec for 4K 3D, all the newer 4K projectors will only have 1080p 3D implemented if at all. Since the new TI 4K chip came out, only Optoma has said at CES that they will support 1080p 3D on their 4K TI-chip projector, but no one has confirmed that with Optoma. The new 4K TI-chip ACER does not have it. When you drive your "chevy to the levy" it's probably going to be dry so bring lots of whisky...
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post #3 of 23 Old 02-01-2017, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Don seems to have the best of all worlds with his 3D capable 4K Sony projector. Hopefully, others will follow Sony's lead, or Sony won't go the other way and abandon 3D on future 4K projectors.

PS: If they start dropping 3D on projectors, I'll probably buy another 1080p or 4K pixals shift Epson and keep it in reserve in a closet.

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post #4 of 23 Old 02-01-2017, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
Yup, I'm with you Barry. The trend seems to buy smaller 3D 4K TVs and use them as a monitor since most of the newer ones have a PC input. Since there is no spec for 4K 3D, all the newer 4K projectors will only have 1080p 3D implemented if at all. Since the new TI 4K chip came out, only Optoma has said at CES that they will support 1080p 3D on their 4K TI-chip projector, but no one has confirmed that with Optoma. The new 4K TI-chip ACER does not have it. When you drive your "chevy to the levy" it's probably going to be dry so bring lots of whisky...
The only problem with TV displays is the bigger size, you'll have to space it accordingly. You'll need around 5 feet distance minimum so might not work on your desk with the rest of your workstation. I have mine behind me so I just swivel around. I found another one up on Craigslist I think it's a model year newer (2015). I have a preference for LG because passive is easier to use while editing I find, so I'm just looking at those. I might have to stock pile these.

My main concern is projectors too. I was thinking about picking up an extra one and just storing it in the box.

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post #5 of 23 Old 02-01-2017, 12:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry state of affairs. I don't see 3D making a comeback anytime soon. 3D VR and VR in general, I don't think is going to make a huge splash with consumers. Too many people just don't like wearing glasses or goggles in the case of VR.

If I spend the remaining years of my life watching 3D at 1080p, I'm cool with that. Hey compared to where I started many years ago watching 3D 35mm Realist slides through a viewer, it's still a treat for me
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post #6 of 23 Old 02-01-2017, 12:51 PM
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I started many years ago watching 3D 35mm Realist slides through a viewer, it's still a treat for me
I think I've said this before, but a couple years ago I scanned all of my 35mm Realist slides into my PC and create MPO files from them--extremely tedious process. Over 1,000 slides, mostly 80s up to mid-90s when the kids were little and some from 60s and 70s. I looked at them on my passive 3D PC, and they looked okay, and I even looked at them on my projector, but they just didn't have that immersive feeling because the depth perception was not there due to lack of sharpness and darkness of the images. Then I looked at them on my new 60" LG 4K passive 3D TV and was blown away. Had tears in my eyes. Then I got the bright idea of adding fill light/clarity in Paint Shop Pro to many of them that were dark and dull, and also reformatted what I could to 16:9, and "Wow!" I don't know what that TV does differently to 3D, but the added feeling of depth and realism, plus reformatting just made me become a big 3D fan all over again.

That whole experience made so thankful for all those years of taking 3D and passing around a viewer--now I was free of the viewer and could pass the fun on more easily. So, like my Realist camera, my 3D TV will live and prosper, (I hope ). I still like my projector best for 3D bluray movies, but for my personal 3D work, the new TV seems to create more depth perception and sharpness all the way to infinity, which my 1080p monitor and projector just couldn't do.
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post #7 of 23 Old 02-01-2017, 01:15 PM
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VR I put in a very different league. Filmmakers aren't going to jump into that. I see it for YT uploads, simulators, training, theme parks. I think there is a market for it to tell a story but then you're better off with 3D or 180 where the focus is in a certain area and not a 360 video where you're looking all over. VR would be best for interactive setups between the viewer and the media. Not going mainstream anytime soon. I haven't pulled my VR Box out since I bought it a year ago. The gimmick of 360 videos just didn't impress me much, also having to take the case off my phone each time, low resolution, poor toggling of videos via phone etc..

It's hard to predict what will happen with 3D tech. It's been around before and gone though it never had a resurgence like the current one. I think they need to get the standards of 4K down first and then maybe 3D can come back in a 4K 3D standard. People seem to think that 4K is the answer that 3D couldn't solve so the answer is to remove 3D. I don't understand that because they're still two very different experiences. One is still 2D just with higher resolution, the other is stereoscopic viewing, the same as we see the world with two eyes. I think 3D will be back because it has a long history of use before Avatar or LG or Sony had anything to say about it. IMAX had been using 3D since the early 90's already.

The other reason is there are forward-thinking pioneers that use 3D, like Cameron, Jackson and Scott who understand that 3D is more immersive and are always looking for ways to make the experience better. The standards for home theater and even the theaters aren't able to keep up so it's no wonder we're so far behind what is possible. For instance a standard Blu ray's limitation of 24 fps for 3D (unless you want to drop to 720p). HDR, while I still think it looks a bit awkward in films like The Hobbit, do solve some problems for 3D like judder and motion blurring, though sometimes they use those elements to hide background anomalies.

We're at a point where 4K is going to be the main focus for awhile. For how long, I don't know. I know the answer isn't 8K. They're going to try it, just wait and see. 8K is 32 megapixels of resolution, way more than your eyes can see seated in a living room with a 50 or 60" display. But Avatar is supposed to be released next year, 3D movies releasing to theater remain consistent. I think by now if studios saw a decline they would pull the 3D conversions. Although I have noticed that 3D showings are now limited, usually only one smaller theater.

The cause of all of this was the unnecessary hype that came from Avatar. It drove the industry wild with 3D expectations into every market, like phones, games, printers, broadcast, movies, some of those worked, others didn't. Then everyone blames a lack of consumer interest for home 3D for whatever reasons, glasses, headaches, on and on. Well, 3D isn't for everyone or everything, that's certain. As soon as they realize that it will be better for everyone. Make the technology there for those that want it, if you don't: don't use it.

3D monitors, if they're 1080p, which I expect they are, are also getting left behind with the transition to 4K. Gamers like the best resolution and the game manufacturers will make them highest resolution possible so 3D will be gone from that too. I booted up my old computer from 10 years ago and loaded up a game called Nanosaur I had installed on it. It has a anaglyph 3D mode, not exactly the best graphics but 3D just keeps coming back.
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post #8 of 23 Old 02-01-2017, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't see much happening with 3D until they can make it glasses free. 4K 3D wouldn't fare much than 1080 if it still used glasses. Folks like us don't mind the glasses at all but, unfortunately, we're in the minority- IMO.

So my friends, we've truly been cast adrift on a lonely sea. But, stay afloat, we shall.
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post #9 of 23 Old 02-01-2017, 02:04 PM
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I think for the average viewer it will take glasses free 3D. They already have those now just a little too pricey. Supposed to support up to 2160p 3D, I don't know if that means native or upscaled though. That's the Izon models with TruD.

They're looking at theater glasses free too.

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post #10 of 23 Old 02-01-2017, 02:57 PM
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Just a word about judder with 4K 3Ds and motion control, it's almost non-existent. Sure it gives that soap opera effect, but for home-brew 3D it makes all the difference. I'm re-watching all my personal 3D videos at scaled 4K 3D that had judder galore, and it's like watching them in "wow" mode. I used to hate the jerky pans, now they look like butter. It even makes youtube palatable. Makes me sad that the technology has caught up to the limitations of personal 3D for me and now it's disappearing.
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post #11 of 23 Old 02-01-2017, 04:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Bob, I want a 4K 3D capable projector that has ALL the features and quality of your new TV for $3000.
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post #12 of 23 Old 02-01-2017, 04:54 PM
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This might be the one. Supposed to retail at $2799 sometime this summer.

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Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
This might be the one. Supposed to retail at $2799 sometime this summer.

https://youtu.be/LZ7BlWO5WgU
Hmmm!!!!!
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post #14 of 23 Old 02-01-2017, 05:06 PM
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If you watch this, the next video shows Vivitek's version of the same thing. The announcer says they did not implement 3D in it because they found out most people don't use 3D, so they saved cost by leaving it out--I think Optoma is going to be the only one left with 3D in their 4K projector as Acer announced they were not including 3D either.


This is Acer's version:

All are coming out this summer.
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You could always just keep a 1080p 3D PJ around. I think it would be fine to mount them side by side or stacked, one for 4K and then one for 3D.

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post #16 of 23 Old 02-01-2017, 05:15 PM
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Just to be clear, the TI 4k chip being used in these projectors has 4K pixels using mirrors. It does an offset shift for another 4K pixels to achieve the necessary 8K pixels (3840x2160) required for true UHD 4K image. Similar to Epson, but from what I've read, you actually see full 3840x2160 (ala 8k pixels), whereas Epson uses fake 4K. Though, you could say the TI chip is fake too. Will be interesting this summer...save your pennies.
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post #17 of 23 Old 02-01-2017, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
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You could always just keep a 1080p 3D PJ around. I think it would be fine to mount them side by side or stacked, one for 4K and then one for 3D.
Never thought of that. Interesting! Easier to just have one good one and put the other one in a closet for a 3D backup down the road. But, sure wouldn't rule it out.

Bob, do you know how many lumens that Optima claims to have?
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post #18 of 23 Old 02-01-2017, 05:28 PM
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current story or poll on going asking if they think HDR is here to stay.
there they think HDR will replace all 3D TVs, like 3D is not needed any more.
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Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
Just to be clear, the TI 4k chip being used in these projectors has 4K pixels using mirrors. It does an offset shift for another 4K pixels to achieve the necessary 8K pixels (3840x2160) required for true UHD 4K image. Similar to Epson, but from what I've read, you actually see full 3840x2160 (ala 8k pixels), whereas Epson uses fake 4K. Though, you could say the TI chip is fake too. Will be interesting this summer...save your pennies.
Faux-K is like 3D in terms of requirements on the mirror speed, so I doubt they can do Faux-K and 3D at the same time, even in 8-bit colour. I'd guess if they do do 3D at 144hz triple flash it's with wobulation disabled. There's no point in 4K upscaling anyway when you're doing active 3D from 1080p sources.

Of course enthusiasts will always be able to do 3D on any display capable of accepting 120hz in 2D (via RF + shutter glasses), or even better, passive 3D via polarization or Dolby 3D DIY. Once Faux-K laser projectors get cheap enough, why not. Paying double for a spare projector makes sense once the price gets cheap enough, and if you can find a second projector used on ebay or a refurb.

A thought occurred to me just now:

With a Faux-K DLP, it shows 1/2 the pixels in a 4K grid then the other half, at up to 60 herz. That means, could could theoretically splice together two completely separate frames together in one and have the DMD split them apart to show them in sequence. Meaning you could get 120hz (2160p / 2 res per eye), or 60hz 3D. Without explicit support for 3D or for 120hz.

I will write a Faux-K shader proof of concept for people to try out once the UHD 60 comes out. (render two frames at a time. You'll get extra lag but oh well)

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post #20 of 23 Old 02-01-2017, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
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current story or poll on going asking if they think HDR is here to stay.
there they think HDR will replace all 3D TVs, like 3D is not needed any more.
Yea, I read a lot of those poll responses both pro and con 3D. While I agree that 3D is all but gone, my personal very biased opinion is that HDR 4K will never offer the immerse experience of good 3D. HDR is sporadic at best in movies- sunrise, sunsets, etc. Nice, not thrilling, but nice. 3D, on the other hand, is a way to experience an entire movie. Hey, 3D is how we view the real world around us.
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post #21 of 23 Old 02-02-2017, 06:12 AM
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Never thought of that. Interesting! Easier to just have one good one and put the other one in a closet for a 3D backup down the road. But, sure wouldn't rule it out.

Bob, do you know how many lumens that Optima claims to have?
First, the reason I would want a 4K with 1080p 3D is because the pixels will be smaller and should have more definition. I'm assuming 4K projectors will have similar upscaling algorithms that 4K TVs have. That should make the image sharper. To get the same perspective of 16:9 or 1.35:1, the pixels for 3D will have to be 1:4 (two vertically and two horizontally) to get 1920x1080 resolution. But those pixels are going to be much sharper, so for homebrew 3D video, especially, I think you will notice a better sense of depth and immersion.

As for lumens. The quoted lumens so far for the ACER and Vivitek are 2000, so I'm assuming the Optoma would be 2000 as well. We all know that real lumens are always less for a cinema-like image, so take that into consideration as well.
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post #22 of 23 Old 02-02-2017, 09:01 AM
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Great, now I'm spending half the day looking at 4K projectors and not getting the taxes done .

This is Benq's version of the TI-chip projector. A much better write-up. Halfway down the page you can see how the chip does 4K shifting, plus a sales pitch about how much sharper this chip will be than other existing 4K projectors. No mention of 3D, but lumens are stated as 2,200. http://www.benq.com/product/projector/w11000/features/ Rumored to cost around $7,000.
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post #23 of 23 Old 02-05-2017, 12:11 PM
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I just came across this writeup on the Optoma UHD60: http://www.projectorcentral.com/optoma-uhd60.htm

Sounds very promising with lens shift and max lumen rating between 2,500 to 3,000 (a lot higher than other 4K projectors using the same chip). All for $2799 stated price, which usually gets lower at street prices.
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