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post #1 of 44 Old 04-25-2017, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Using Drones for 3D video and stills.

I thought I would start this thread as there has been lots of discussion on other thread regarding the use of Drones to carry 3D cameras, but also to use 2D Drones to capture moving video that can be used to create 3D video. If you can't record a lot of video, you still can make reasonable stills (MPO files) from moving video. Moving a drone about 3 feet sideways and selecting two frame for L/R eyes will create a nice MPO (with some miniaturization of course).

More to come...feel free to add your experiences and images on this thread.
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post #2 of 44 Old 04-26-2017, 06:30 AM
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There are two ways to capture the L/R frames with drone video.

One is to use the Yaw control that rotates the drone around it's central axis. The other way is to do a sideways movement. I haven't decided which is better but to achieve a sideways movement the quad copter has to bank a little to move. The Yaw holds the camera level to the horizon.


For video, the second problem is the amount of work it takes to split the video into sequential frames, then take every other frame and Move them ( say even numbered frames and move them to a second timeline. Miniaturization is not so much an issue as the timing of the video. If we remove every other frame the scene will be over in half the time, creating fast motion of any movement in the scene. The only other way is to shoot at 60 fps and then you end up with a 30 fps video after doing the 3D conversion. This limits to 1080P as current drone cameras electronics do not shoot 4K at more than 30 fps. I can shoot all the way to 120 fps at 1080p. Of course larger drones where you mound large format cameras will achieve 4K at higher frame rates.


Personally, what I would love to find is a slick way to slice up a 60 frames per second into sequential frames, move them to a second timeline, eliminate the space between the frames and then pair the two timelines. Vegas Pro is better at this than Edius but still a lot of work. Beyond say 4-5 second clips, the task becomes daunting for sure.


I'm open to suggestions for an easier way.

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post #3 of 44 Old 04-26-2017, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post
For video, the second problem is the amount of work it takes to split the video into sequential frames, then take every other frame and Move them ( say even numbered frames and move them to a second timeline. Miniaturization is not so much an issue as the timing of the video. If we remove every other frame the scene will be over in half the time, creating fast motion of any movement in the scene. The only other way is to shoot at 60 fps and then you end up with a 30 fps video after doing the 3D conversion. This limits to 1080P as current drone cameras electronics do not shoot 4K at more than 30 fps. I can shoot all the way to 120 fps at 1080p. Of course larger drones where you mound large format cameras will achieve 4K at higher frame rates.


Personally, what I would love to find is a slick way to slice up a 60 frames per second into sequential frames, move them to a second timeline, eliminate the space between the frames and then pair the two timelines. Vegas Pro is better at this than Edius but still a lot of work. Beyond say 4-5 second clips, the task becomes daunting for sure.


I'm open to suggestions for an easier way.
I didn't realize you had to splice up video like that for 3D. Can you not just copy the 2D and paste it into a new track below? Then, shift it over the desired amount, say 3 or 4 frames to the left, then pair that as the left frame (or whichever is trailing view)? I've never filmed motion parallax method, this was just what I'd read online and in discussion in another thread a few years ago.

The way I understand is that you want the same view but at different times and places (movement of the camera). I wouldn't think you would need to cut the frames out, but I've never attempted this personally so you've gone further with it than I have.

You'll have to do some calculations on speed, distance to arrive at number of frames to offset. Poster MLXXX used a 2 frame offset, I don't recall mentioning he had to cut odd/even frames out, I could be wrong...

So if you're moving camera to the right, you would need a left view offset, and if you're moving camera to left you would need a right camera offset.

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post #4 of 44 Old 04-26-2017, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Tom, that was my impression as well. As the camera moves, the L frame becomes the R frame and the R frame becomes the L frame and so on. Where it gets dicey is the blur (slight double image) between moving frames, which will probably look like crosstalk. So you have to use a shutter speed that locks each frame into a single image, not a blurred moving image. That crosstalk would probably happen regardless of whether you cut frames out or not. If you do cut frames out, I think you'd get a lot of judder as well. I have successfully made single 3D photos from consecutive frames in a row and they look fine. This from a moving car video.
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post #5 of 44 Old 04-26-2017, 05:07 PM
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Bob- Tom- I did the testing and was unable to produce any 3D from my drone video using either a yaw motion ( rotate about a center axis of the drone) left to right or right to left. I also tested a dolly move, moving in a straight line left to right and right to left. There must be something I just am not doing right.

Additionally, I tried your suggestion and it didn't work either. The method I described took me about an hour to slice up 9 seconds of video in the left to right dolly move and then render the clips after the empty deleted frames were removed.

One test I did proved to me that 3D cannot be even paired for any 4K or UHD clips. I had to reshoot the test run at 1080p 30. So anyone planning to play around with 4K video for 3D it can't be done in Vegas Pro. Just doesn't support it.


Bob- my motion with the camera drone was very controlled. I moved 30 ft in 9 seconds. The shoot distance was close object- 50 ft. and far object was about 1000 ft trees in the distance. It's possible I didn't have enough IA separation between every other frame.

Anyway, in all renderings the result was sharp 2D.


Obviously, relaxman has achieved good results with parts of this method. I hope he jumps in here and explain where I am going wrong with either my shooting with the drone or my method to pair a single clip with itself.

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post #6 of 44 Old 04-26-2017, 05:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Don, I think what happens when you combine the 2 videos is it tries to do an auto match up of the left and right as best possible. In so doing, it's defeating the 3D. After you match the two videos, go into 3D adjustment and make sure their is 3D disparity between the L and R images. I found when creating stills from a moving vehicle at 30mph that one frame separation was enough. Try making a MPO first. Try different frame separations until you get some 3D. It will probably look miniaturized if you separate the images too far. Once you get good MPO 3D file separation, then cut the clips at that frame separation and match the two files into 3D. I think back to my Nabi days. I had to match up the two files and cut off frames at the beginning and end of both files. Once I did that, the matchup was easy. Then I adjusted the 3D alignment and the end result was very good. I know you've done the same. I will try some moving car video tomorrow and see how that works.
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post #7 of 44 Old 04-26-2017, 06:27 PM
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Thanks for the suggestions. I was wondering if 1 frame of IA difference would be enough. I may need quite a bit more for aerial photography. You see, the math says 1 frame difference equates to 1.3 inches IA or about what my TD10 shoots at. I should have seen something in 3D but there was no difference at all.

Yes, on trimming the head and tail of the two clips after sliding one. That requirement is also in the manual.

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post #8 of 44 Old 04-26-2017, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post
Bob- Tom- I did the testing and was unable to produce any 3D from my drone video using either a yaw motion ( rotate about a center axis of the drone) left to right or right to left. I also tested a dolly move, moving in a straight line left to right and right to left. There must be something I just am not doing right.

Additionally, I tried your suggestion and it didn't work either. The method I described took me about an hour to slice up 9 seconds of video in the left to right dolly move and then render the clips after the empty deleted frames were removed.

One test I did proved to me that 3D cannot be even paired for any 4K or UHD clips. I had to reshoot the test run at 1080p 30. So anyone planning to play around with 4K video for 3D it can't be done in Vegas Pro. Just doesn't support it.


Bob- my motion with the camera drone was very controlled. I moved 30 ft in 9 seconds. The shoot distance was close object- 50 ft. and far object was about 1000 ft trees in the distance. It's possible I didn't have enough IA separation between every other frame.

Anyway, in all renderings the result was sharp 2D.


Obviously, relaxman has achieved good results with parts of this method. I hope he jumps in here and explain where I am going wrong with either my shooting with the drone or my method to pair a single clip with itself.

On 4K3D, I've paired up my AX100 clips in VP just fine for 3D. I add them to the timeline and pair as 3D. Assuming it's a file VP understands, it should work.

With the dolly move, this is similar to shooting out a car window, you will have to see what works. The problem that I see is that if you're using fixed lenses like a GoPro this will have the same effect as widening out the cameras which doesn't have much effect on 3D in distance because your view isn't changing (no zooming). I would say, offset it 2 or 3 frames and see how it looks, but if you don't have anything within 20 feet it may not look 3D. But you can't offset too much without lenses that zoom, well you know what I mean you shoot with 1 meter rig so you know.

That's why I say 3D for drones is mostly useless even with motion parallax it will have problems.

Pairing these up I think similar to two camera system, just offset 2 or 3 frames and clip off, then clip off at the other end of the right clip, then pair as 3D. Again, given the distance you're working with, it may not look 3D and whether or not you can offset it enough before the scene changes too much is another problem. I would start with 2 or 3 frames first and see how that looks.

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post #9 of 44 Old 04-26-2017, 11:05 PM
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OK, I got it to work! Yeah!.

It was a stupid mistake I made in Vegas Pro. I will explain later.

Here is the 3D MP4 file you all can download:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uf8fsc0cya...rames.mp4?dl=0

I haven't used this public link in a long time so I hope it still works.

I tested first with an offset of 1 frame and the near Palm tree object just was too flat for my taste so this rendering is with 3 frames offset. The perspective looks right. Notice how at the very end of the flight, I stopped the drone and the video goes to 2D. Proving that for this to work the travel needs to be as constant and steady as possible. The dji Mavic Drone is rated #1 in the business for it rock steady image even with a little wind.

I'm pretty excited about this!

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post #10 of 44 Old 04-26-2017, 11:47 PM
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On 4K3D, I've paired up my AX100 clips in VP just fine for 3D. I add them to the timeline and pair as 3D. Assuming it's a file VP understands, it should work.
Tom- I tested this again and while it goes through the pairing operation the paired 3D video goes black and the clip in the timeline said media offline. The drone file container is MP4 and while this can be edited as 4K in Vegas Pro, it doesn't work for 3D pairing. Did you use a conversion tool? I found one of these online that converts the 4K video to 2K but you can do that in Vegas by itself.

__________________________________________________ ________

OK, now for my discovery of why I couldn't get this to work earlier- I forgot to set the preview monitor to 3D! It was set to view "Left Only" in the Vegas Pro settings.


On the depth of 3D, the quality of the 3D is good out to about 300 ft over top of the house roof. The reason this works well is because the Drone camera lens is 28mm is about a 75° viewing angle. It gives a more natural size and longer range of depth than a super wide GoPro lens. I would hardly say this process is useless. The only issue I will have with it is wind that can change the speed of travel so that will have an effect on the depth and can also add to a bump in the left to right pan.

I am really pleased that this process is easy and doesn't require time consuming slicing up the clip.

The next set of experiments is to reset my drone camera to 2K and test various frame rates. In 4K the drone is limited to 24fps and 30fps. But in 2K I can record at 24, 30, 60, and 120 fps. Considering all my 3D is limited to 1080p in the output, I may get more to play with in 2K shooting. Plus I can change the setting while in flight using the ipad. So, I could shoot 4K 30 and then switch to 2K 60 or 120 while still aimed at the same subject.

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post #11 of 44 Old 04-27-2017, 08:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Don, applause, applause. The video is very clear and 3D is good. Only issue was that the 3D adjustment was off by about an inch vertically on my 27" monitor. I had to watch with my eyes tilted so I didn't go wacky.
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post #12 of 44 Old 04-27-2017, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post
Tom- I tested this again and while it goes through the pairing operation the paired 3D video goes black and the clip in the timeline said media offline. The drone file container is MP4 and while this can be edited as 4K in Vegas Pro, it doesn't work for 3D pairing. Did you use a conversion tool? I found one of these online that converts the 4K video to 2K but you can do that in Vegas by itself.
No, I just dropped in the XAVC-S mp4 files directly. I have project set to 3840x2160 and use top/bottom 3D mode. That's really it. Of course I have to line up the audio sometimes to match depending on amount of mis sync between the two cameras.

If you keep at 4K30p, I could view it in full resolution on my LG, just output to top/bottom and upload full resolution.

When you get more time, make some notes on distance and speed and the amount of off-sync you use for the trailing view. I plan on getting a drone at some point and want to try this out. I think 2-4 frames for 5-10 mph is about right on paper from what I've read, yeah the wind and if it's a smaller drone it will be harder to keep it steady. I'll have a look here in a bit on your test.

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post #13 of 44 Old 04-27-2017, 08:37 AM
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Just viewed. Actually, I thought the alignment was spot on. The 3D effect was very good too. Video quality part, it's a bit muddy, it seemed a bit squashed on bit rate maybe but maybe this was just a quick upload. It seemed jerky too, what frame rate?

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post #14 of 44 Old 04-27-2017, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Just viewed. Actually, I thought the alignment was spot on. The 3D effect was very good too. Video quality part, it's a bit muddy, it seemed a bit squashed on bit rate maybe but maybe this was just a quick upload. It seemed jerky too, what frame rate?
Odd, my alignment was way off, but the video quality was spot on.
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post #15 of 44 Old 04-27-2017, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

I am really pleased that this process is easy and doesn't require time consuming slicing up the clip.
Yeah, I was confused on that what you were saying, I mean that's A LOT of work! Should be just like 2 camera editing for 3D, just offset.

Would like to see different frame rates 1080p60 and 4k30p thrown in too! I think it works at least at this close distance, probably about the same as putting two GoPros up there. Further up 100-200 feet I think it's going to have problems because you won't get enough movement to offset the other view unless you're moving pretty fast, but so in this test I think it works fine, but if there's movement on the ground it might look weird.

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post #16 of 44 Old 04-27-2017, 12:54 PM
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Don, applause, applause. The video is very clear and 3D is good. Only issue was that the 3D adjustment was off by about an inch vertically on my 27" monitor. I had to watch with my eyes tilted so I didn't go wacky.
Mine too until I discovered the little full screen mode in the lower right corner of the player. When I hit that everything fell in place with perfect alignment. Recall me complaining about relaxman's alignment. I was wrong on that too as the full screen mode fixed it.


Actually, I believe this is a limitation of the top bottom rendering as this doesn't happen in side by side. If you find the full screen button on your player the vertical alignment will jump into place.

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post #17 of 44 Old 04-27-2017, 01:26 PM
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Tom-

Quote:
When you get more time, make some notes on distance and speed and the amount of off-sync you use for the trailing view. I plan on getting a drone at some point and want to try this out. I think 2-4 frames for 5-10 mph is about right on paper from what I've read, yeah the wind and if it's a smaller drone it will be harder to keep it steady. I'll have a look here in a bit on your test.
While I can use the mph it is a bit misleading since air speed and ground speed gets confusing when trying to interpret for 3D. So, the way I do it is move the drone laterally for a ground distance and time it in post. The speed will vary but when you have the time for say a 50 ft travel you know your ft per second ground speed. Then you can count your frame rate and know how many frames you shot. With all this I determined that my distance spread from one frame to the next was 1.33 inches of travel. This is 33.8 MM per frame. We know that good all around 3D for a 28mm lens is 65mm. So this would equate to 2 frames of slip between the two clips before pairing. Considering I was shooting a near object of 50ft distance and my far object down the street of 300 ft. The 3D calculator tells me my inter axial should be 100mm with a 28mm lens. So I set the spread between the two clips at 3 frames. You can download these 3D calculators in the app store. If you work with twin cameras and a wide variety of scenery, it comes in handy to calculate the IA for the lens.

Tom you must have superb vision for compression. The dji Mavic Pro was set for 4K 30p at 60Mbs. But as we've been discussing, I can't get 4K to pair. So I recompressed and resized the clip to 2K 30 fps at 25Mbs. Then rendered the clip as a 3D top/botton for 25Mbs compression. Until I figure out how to duplicate your method of pairing 4K30P I plan top reset the drone for 2K recording to eliminate the down conversion in post. But the way these cameras work, that means I will be using 1/4 the image sensor for the base file. Only a test run will determine which is better in the final output.

There is a bit of jerkiness in the lateral travel dolly of the drone. This was caused by a momentary gust of wind that caused the drone to not travel at the steady speed. That can be a problem I actually did 6 runs and none of them were perfect gust free. I'm hoping shooting at high frame rates say 120 fps and using slomo will resolve this for my desert scapes and mountains. Wind is always a problem anywhere.

BTW- unrelated to 3D drone shooting but I have made quite a number of modifications to my remote controller. Stock has lots of problems with sunlight and ability to see, plus the iphone 6+ battery gets used up real fast. I switched to an ipad air 2 with a sun shade and custom mount. A little more time to assemble but now I can see it in bright sunlight and the ipad battery lasts as long as the RC controller battery. My goal is to be able to get an hour of flight recording on my kit before having to recharge everything.

Quote:
you won't get enough movement to offset the other view unless you're moving pretty fast, but so in this test I think it works fine, but if there's movement on the ground it might look weird.
Actually, the experiment I need to do is spin the drone about a center axis as opposed to a linear travel. This may work better for wide angle too. But it needs to be tested. I have done this with My NEX5n for 3D panorama and it works.

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post #18 of 44 Old 04-27-2017, 03:48 PM
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Tom-

Tom you must have superb vision for compression. The dji Mavic Pro was set for 4K 30p at 60Mbs. But as we've been discussing, I can't get 4K to pair. So I recompressed and resized the clip to 2K 30 fps at 25Mbs. Then rendered the clip as a 3D top/botton for 25Mbs compression. Until I figure out how to duplicate your method of pairing 4K30P I plan top reset the drone for 2K recording to eliminate the down conversion in post. But the way these cameras work, that means I will be using 1/4 the image sensor for the base file. Only a test run will determine which is better in the final output.
There must be something else going on on my end. Maybe it didn't play full quality or something, it looked full quality when paused but when I played it got pretty bad. I played in fullscreen, no problem there. I'll give it another try.

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post #19 of 44 Old 04-27-2017, 04:28 PM
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Ok, I downloaded the file and it played fine. Before I just played it from the drop box, it must have downgraded the quality. No, it wasn't my vision, it was pretty bad quality which I thought it might have just been a quick low quality upload to test 3D or something, but it was just playing from drop box directly.

Yes, use the little arrow, bottom right screen on WMP. If you click the full screen in top right that will leave the border which won't expand the video to full screen and cause overlap and the vertical alignment problem.

I think this looks pretty good, the jerkiness went away too when I just downloaded the file and I don't think the wind bothered it much there if there was any. I think your test was a success.

4K pairing isn't any different than HD. Not sure what's going on. One thing I noticed on VP is the preview window button for second monitor will not work for 4K3D top/bottom. It will cause overlap problem similar to WMP fullscreen issue with border. Basically you get overlap issue (vertical alignment off a lot) and I don't see a way to adjust overscan to compensate which I can do on Mac. It could be a VP issue too as it wasn't designed for it I'm sure.

But it's really not a big deal for editing. I just keep the 2nd monitor LG 4K TV at 1080p for 3D while I edit, later on I can play the finished export in media player in 4K3D top bottom. I noticed in system preferences it detects 3D on the LG and I can select resolutions only up to 1080p, nothing more, but you can always put in 4K and turn on top/bottom on tv and get 4K3D half resolution if you have the right resolution file.

On recording, I would keep it in 4K unless you want faster fps, you can always downscale in VP to HD and keep the same framing and full sensor if it crops for HD. Downscaling in post is better than cropping to HD in camera if it crops that much, you sure it crops the sensor to 1/4? That seems like a lot.

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post #20 of 44 Old 04-27-2017, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post
Mine too until I discovered the little full screen mode in the lower right corner of the player. When I hit that everything fell in place with perfect alignment. Recall me complaining about relaxman's alignment. I was wrong on that too as the full screen mode fixed it.


Actually, I believe this is a limitation of the top bottom rendering as this doesn't happen in side by side. If you find the full screen button on your player the vertical alignment will jump into place.
Yup, when I simply played/B using full screen on my monitor it didn't work. When I used PDVD15 it worked fine. PDVD16 and 17 did not work from some reason.
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post #21 of 44 Old 04-27-2017, 10:54 PM
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Tom:

On the 4K pairing:
I've been doing some research on Vegas Pro v13 which is what I have and while it will edit 2D 4K files, 3D is not mentioned for 4K. It is mentioned in v14 but also requires 16GB of ram and an 8 core processor. I have an 8 logical core processor but only 12Gb of ram and of course not using the latest Vegas Pro version from Magix.

I will try my other editors tomorrow to see if they will pair the 4K.


On the Dropbox video- there was a visible gust of wind that was almost half way across the left to right travel and I see it here. Not too objectionable but not perfect either. In all cases, these clips need to be downloaded and played from your hard drive.

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post #22 of 44 Old 04-28-2017, 06:19 AM
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I'm using VP 13 too, from what I've read 14 is the same core build as previous VP, they just removed all of the Sony branding from the code and of course added some new features. My edit system is 12-core and currently 28gb memory. I have noticed in VP that if the system lags, media can go offline. But I rarely see that and it refreshes pretty quick. Maybe leave project settings at 1080p, pair them up, then change back to 2160p later for output. You are importing the raw files, correct?

Other than that I'm not sure, I know it works because I've done several 4K3D videos this way which are on YT and a bunch more I haven't uploaded. Unless you have a passive 4K screen you wouldn't be able to view it anyway so it's probably not worth spending a lot of time on. I think you mentioned before your PJ wouldn't play 3D in 4K resolution before so you have to downgrade to HD. And HD downscaled from 4K still looks pretty darn good.

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post #23 of 44 Old 04-28-2017, 07:01 AM
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Don: congratutaltion, i'm happy you use my method It's very easy, in fact a few clicks in Vegas.
I think you can use even more offset, so you get more depth, with miniaturization effect.
Place your video to track 1 and 2, above-below. Move one of them a few frames away. Then mute the top track with a hotkey, and unmute.
So you can see the difference, and you can set the offset you want, before pairing. After pairing there is no way to set this.
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post #24 of 44 Old 04-28-2017, 09:12 AM
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relaxman- thanks for stepping in here again. You really added a whole new set of opportunities for my projects where the drone will be used. The pan requirement will not be invasive to the story either because I would be doing a pan anyway.

I'm sure you have been following tom and my discussion on pairing 4K30p content in Vegas Pro. Do you do that or do you shoot at 1080p? It's looking like my edit computer isn't robust enough for the task of 4K3D. But, I'm not ready to upgrade yet just to handle that. But that is just because Tom can do it and his computer is so much more robust than what I have. For now it's just a curiosity as shooting 4K30p and then converting the files to 1080p30 seems to work.


Tom- I have a passive 27" LG monitor as my secondary here in the edit suite. I run it in Line alternate mode most of the time while editing. In the home theater the screen is a 92"wide screen with the Sony 665ES that is active glasses. It automatically upscales all 1080p content 2D or 3D to 4K for display. I have the screen cropped for 3840x2160 because that is 16x9 AR, True 4K is not. Other than test patterns I don't ever watch any true 4096 video there anyway even though the projector is 4K native.
Here's the rub- My UHD player also upscales, so if I choose a 3D blu ray the player would upscale it to 4K3D and send that to the projector. I'll get the popup message that the 4K 3D is not supported. So to play a 3D 1080p in a UHD player I have to go into the menu settings and tell the player to not upscale to 4K. Then it sends a 1080x1920 to the projector. So, the conclusion, is that even if I could create any 4K3D here, I have no system to view it. It would have to be reduced to 1080x1920 3D anyway.

I think what you stated earlier will become my SOP- Shoot everything in 4K and then down convert to 2K for editing and pairing. If high frame rate is called for then and only then switch to 1080p 60 or 120 fps for slomo.

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post #25 of 44 Old 04-28-2017, 11:09 AM
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If I type 4K I really mean uhd 3840x2160, I don't have anything that films at DCI width or that would display it, my GPU can handle it but the monitors are crazy expensive for the extra width and not really worth it, IMO. Plus no 4K TV's with 3D are that width anyway so it will get downscaled to native UHD res. I only have one screen to play it on so 4K3D is really niche here. I just send it over HDMI from my edit machine and LG TV is behind me. I may pick up another LG 4K here in the next year either new if they still have them or something used like this one. I didn't want to dump a lot of money into a 4K screen right now so I just picked this one up cheap for 400.00 late last year and tried out 4K3D half and it seems to work ok. Resolution is noticeable better than 1080p so each eye gets 3840x1080p with a top/bottom half file.

Yeah, I would just set project to 1080p and let VP, or Edius downscale it whatever you're using. I think downscaled 4K from my AX100's is better than HD from my Z10k or anything else I have right now. I have to decide what I want first, 2D or 3D, then choose what camera to use. I've been shooting a lot of 2D just from the AX100's lately because the quality is so much better, but I miss other things the Z10k has. Indoor shooting with the AX100 is a lot better with low light and bigger and better glass make a difference.

My computer's pretty old now actually, it's a 2009 Mac Pro, I did upgrade it a year ago with a 12 core processor kit, added SSD's for the boot volumes and more memory. I need to add another SSD for windows so I have more room for the raw files for editing, space is getting a bit low even with a 960GB SSD. It's about as fast as it will get, waiting to see what Apple releases for the new Mac Pro later this year or next. May end up just going with a PC for editing though since everything for 3D is windows-based, haven't decided, bootcamp into windows is working ok.

Upgrading PC's will really be just for faster 4K editing. Right now things are pretty fast even with 4K for me. One thing I've noticed is that h.265 rendering takes a really long time and is processor hungry. Takes about twice as long as h.264 but of course it's something like 50 percent more efficient too. If you want h.265 built in you have to upgrade to VP14 but I think I'll stick with 13 for now and just use h.264. I can always use h.265 in handbrake which is free.

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post #26 of 44 Old 04-28-2017, 11:30 AM
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One suggestion, Tom. If your system can handle it, I would suggest you add a PCIe storage card as opposed to SSD. These will read about 4 times faster than the SSD drives. Last year I even upgraded my PCIe card which was a 256GB and was just 2x faster than SSD to the latest vs. price- this one is a 512GB and is 4 times as fast as the SSD drive in the same machine. My C drive is still a 256GB SSD though and it has over 100GB of free space since I direct my temp files for editing to another SSD. My media for editing all resides on the PCIe for speed. That will really improve your rendering time. Not sure if they make them for the Mac so you'll have to check into that. The newest PCIe cards use plugin modules to add more capacity in the future.

Back when I was in the business, rendering time was a huge concern since my shows all had an expensive deadline for air. Plus the clients nagging me on the phone.

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post #27 of 44 Old 04-28-2017, 12:41 PM
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I record FullHD at 50 or 60p.
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post #28 of 44 Old 04-28-2017, 12:52 PM
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I'm not sure if those will work on Mac, it might, but mac's are pretty particular on what will work with PCI slots.

I'm using a PCIe adapter with SSD drive on the mac boot volume. They do make PCIe drives for Mac (they're 650.00 for a 960gb drive and will run 820mb/s which is close to 2x times SSD), however, just with a PCIe to SSD adapter I tried to initialize windows and it would not work at least for boot volume, so I had to get a regular drive adapter and use at that location (slower bus vs PCIe) so it's not as fast there and not as fast as PCIe drive either but at least I got the boot volume to work with windows as opposed to a 5400rpm drive which I had put in at first. And that caused a lot of problems with slower drive. On the 2nd SSD for windows which I don't have yet, I'm going to try to use the PCIe adapter I have with the one last open PCIe port. Hopefully it will work since it's not a boot volume, if not I'll have to just use regular drive adapter and it will be slower.

With the PCIe adapter to SSD on Mac side I'm getting about 500mb/s read, I haven't checked on windows side to see the difference using the drive bus. I'm sure it's a little slower vs PCIe bus. My laptop has integrated PCIe drive and it runs about 700mb/s read. Even with 4K, I don't think I'm hitting the threshold yet of what these drives can do. 820mb/s would be nice but it's about 3 times the price vs SSD. The 2013 Mac Pro's had PCIe drives built in and you could build to order how much you wanted but these older mac pros you have to add on PCIe slot with 3rd party and they're only about half as fast too. These machines are end of line last built in 2012 so they're pretty old, waiting to see what Apple releases next. I didn't really like the 2013 trash can mac and it was too pricey by the time you upgraded it so just upgraded the one I had.

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post #29 of 44 Old 04-28-2017, 01:56 PM
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For what it's worth, the codec DJI uses- at least in the Phantom 3 Pro- is pretty terrible for editing. Converting it to Prores or GoPro's Cineform codec should make the entire process go much more smoothly.
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post #30 of 44 Old 04-28-2017, 03:06 PM
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Hmm. Don, is the video compressed with h.265 from the drone cam? Wondering if that might be the problem. VP 13 may not accept h.265 files. Could remux with h.264 and see if it will work then. But it was working for 2D in 4K with the raw files? I wouldn't think it would work at all then.

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