Is 3D TV the next big thing for 2010? - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 379 Old 01-12-2010, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Agreed View Post

3D works so well with animation because animation has a defined Z axis and a clear frame of reference to the viewer's point of view. It's basically seamless. There are drivers available to turn any 3D game on the computer into an anaglyph stereoscopic game, using the z axis. Works pretty well, too.

Extra gear is involved when talking about filming 3D. I'm sure it'll make its way into more productions as time goes on, that's how these things work, and I'm sure too that filmmakers will learn to make best use of it and learn new techniques, how to translate the current "language" of film into the new medium, especially if it really sticks around. But for smaller productions, it's not a fiscal possibility.


"But for smaller productions, it's not a fiscal possibility"

Sony is releasing a 3D HDTV 1080p camera for personal use... it was shown at CES. Remember when 1080p cameras were $$$$? Now we see home-grown movies made in stunning 1080p24 (though professional cameras can yeild superior results).

I think it's only a matter of a few years before 3D (digital) filming and editing is within reach of most who would wish to use it. What may maintain a larger and longer cost overhead would be 35mm live-filming in 3D.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #182 of 379 Old 01-12-2010, 02:31 PM
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Time makes everything cheaper, but early adopters will still have only limited options. Sony's going to push behind it with all of their might since PS3 sales were huge last year and adding support is as simple as a firmware update (to the end users, anyway ), but honestly? I'm going to be watching with detached interest - really, just reading the articles - to see what happens with the adult film industry and 3D. They may not ever have a booth at CES, but more than once they've been seminal in the broader adoption of emerging visual technologies. No pun intended.
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post #183 of 379 Old 01-12-2010, 05:19 PM
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they've been seminal in the broader adoption of emerging visual technologies



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post #184 of 379 Old 01-12-2010, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Matt L View Post

3D is in no way comparable to the difference between SD and HD broadcasting.

Couldn't disagree more. You don't think that depth, dimension and the perception of people and objects in a defined space are as important as lines of resolution?

Have you seen a well set up 3D demo?

John

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post #185 of 379 Old 01-12-2010, 06:40 PM
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John

Disclaimer: I am in no way responsible for others' perceptions of my innocently worded posts!

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post #186 of 379 Old 01-12-2010, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Robert View Post

Couldn't disagree more. You don't think that depth, dimension and the perception of people and objects in a defined space are as important as lines of resolution?

Have you seen a well set up 3D demo?

John

I think that's the problem with all of the critics on this forum. They just haven't experienced good 3D. I spent 3 days at CES looking at a lot of different demos, and while some were better than others, I really enjoyed the extra dimension of 3D. One of the best demonstrations was Wheel of Fortune in 3D in the Sony exhibit. I never watch the 2D show, but the set, props, and prizes really looked liked they were right in front of you. Evidently they had replaced every camera on the set with a 3D camera, including a jib camera. Football and the Olympics also looked really good. Live video(60 frames per second for each eye) looked better than film transfers due to the film frame rate. But the film transfers looked as good or better than they would in any theater because each eye was receiving a completely separate image with no crosstalk like you would get with polarized glasses. As I said in another thread, I think that 3D is going to be huge--THIS YEAR.
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post #187 of 379 Old 01-12-2010, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet View Post

a 3D camera has the 2nd lens built in. The same 3D workstation also works for 2D content, and I don't see why you'd need extra time for blocking or camera opperating or lighting. 3D is visible on the monitor during the shoot so the director knows how it looks even before the shoot is over.


You seem to be so adamant in your unwavering support for 3D, exactly what is your stake in all this? Do you own stock in a polarized lens company?

Me, I'm just anti hype. The simple facts are you have to wear stupid looking glasses to watch a 3d show, it's an added expense with little reward, and as I have stated it's going to eat up $$ from somewhere. And if I were being cynical I'd moan about the bandwidth it eats up on the proposed SAT and Cable channels, it means that much less for HD channels.

At this point I'll lay odds more of the public feels as I do and it will die on the vine.
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post #188 of 379 Old 01-12-2010, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt L View Post

You seem to be so adamant in your unwavering support for 3D, exactly what is your stake in all this? Do you own stock in a polarized lens company?

No stock. Just know a technological improvement that serves the HT community when I see it.

Just like I advocated for DVD when the laserdisc drones said it would spell the end of quality transfers and widescreen.

Just like I advocated for 16x9 anamorphic DVD when I was almost banned from a certain forum for "making people with 4x3 TVs feel bad that their Televisions weren't state of the art". I even started a petition that got the T2 DVD "flipper disc" haulted and convinced the studio to release it from a new 16x9 transfer on the first commercial RSDL DVD.

Just like I advocated for 16x9 transfers for 1.66:1 films even when WB had much of the HT community convinced 4x3 was good enough.

Just like I advocated for a 1080p HD disc based format when Joe Kane and a band of AVS members were hoping to get stuck with a red-laser 720p format since "we'd never get 1080p".

Just like I advocated for an HD format with lossless audio and worked with another AVS member to get a petition printed in widescreen review and handed to WB who read it long before HD DVD and BD were even formalized... when everyone at AVS was saying we'd never get a lossless audio provision on HD disc.

Just like I advocated for blu-ray Disc with 50GB and 50% greater bandwidth over HD DVD despite the Microsoft-driven FUD that hijacked more than one internet discussion group for over a year.

I guess I just like rooting for the best image we can get, and seeing home-theater technology evolve to meet the challenge.


Quote:


At this point I'll lay odds more of the public feels as I do and it will die on the vine.

Given the popularity of 3D ticket sales for Avatar, I'd lay odds that the public doesn't feel like you.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #189 of 379 Old 01-12-2010, 10:43 PM
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Oh, come on, you give a motivational speech to the nay-sayer but don't even touch on my salient point about the adult film industry? Forsooth, it's an important consideration! Of course, they've got their own troubles, someone has to make the call as to what exactly the audience wants to see coming out of the screen... I wouldn't want to be the director, camera guy, editor, producer, financier, or even investor on an adult film production anyway, but at least the first three in that list are going to have to really wing it if they decide to take the plunge early and put out some depth-enhanced smut.
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post #190 of 379 Old 01-13-2010, 01:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt L View Post

You seem to be so adamant in your unwavering support for 3D, exactly what is your stake in all this? Do you own stock in a polarized lens company?

Me, I'm just anti hype. The simple facts are you have to wear stupid looking glasses to watch a 3d show, it's an added expense with little reward, and as I have stated it's going to eat up $$ from somewhere. And if I were being cynical I'd moan about the bandwidth it eats up on the proposed SAT and Cable channels, it means that much less for HD channels.

At this point I'll lay odds more of the public feels as I do and it will die on the vine.

Exactly. So much more pimping and questions than actual answers. And not theoretical answers on paper, but real world answers. Just because you can recite marketing speak doesn't mean you know anything substantial or definitive. Yeah, let's all get in on the next big thing, that's been around for more than fifty years.

Makes me think that either a) some of these people just have a hard-on for 3D, or worse b) they work for these particular companies and/or own stock in them.

3D will probably work similarly to DLNA. It will be more hype than functionality for several incarnations. Or it's similar to quad in production values, as it never goes much beyond gimmick. And today's movies are already lacking in content. They have plenty of CGI and effects though.

Oh, for the record, I have experienced good 3D.
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post #191 of 379 Old 01-13-2010, 05:35 AM
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Always remember the Golden Rule of Home A/V Technology;

Follow the Porn.

Yes, what ever the Porn Industry Backs, will more than likely, become the defacto standard a few years down the road.
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post #192 of 379 Old 01-13-2010, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agreed View Post

Time makes everything cheaper, but early adopters will still have only limited options. Sony's going to push behind it with all of their might since PS3 sales were huge last year and adding support is as simple as a firmware update (to the end users, anyway ), but honestly? I'm going to be watching with detached interest - really, just reading the articles - to see what happens with the adult film industry and 3D. They may not ever have a booth at CES, but more than once they've been seminal in the broader adoption of emerging visual technologies. No pun intended.

They didnt just have a booth, they had an entire convention center! All abuzz about 3D.
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post #193 of 379 Old 01-13-2010, 06:25 AM
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Someone should have sold asprin and ibuprophen at the CES 2010 3D displays. They would have probably have made a fortune.

As for the buzz in the air, it quickly dissapated once a fully realized product was sitting in front of them. From DailyTech, listed as one of the most overblown demonstrations or lowlights of CES 2010...

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=17371

Three-Dimensional Television/Monitors:
3D was the buzz word on the tongues of every major LCD screen maker. Even the cabbies were talking about it. However, this colorful fad ultimately seems like another questionable promise from a technology that has been flirted with for decades, but never fully embraced.

The fact of the matter is simple. As wonderful as watching your media of choice -- sports, movies, or pornography -- in 3D might be, it still requires you to put on goofy glasses. Outside the movie theater, this has never caught on in the past (despite repeated attempts), and it seems unlikely to now. Can you imagine a bunch of guys sitting down to watch a football game, and the party host saying, "Wait! We've all got to put on our 3D glasses!"?

Such as scene seems pretty unlikely, so that leaves 3D gaming. Sure gamers might be able to swallow the nerd-factor (its hard to be offended by uncool glasses when you're logging 10 hour runs in Warcraft). However, in more cutting edge titles many gamers will be unable to use the tech, as it cuts frame rates by as much as 20 or 30 percent. Final benchmarks remain to be seen, but if early estimates hold true, it seems many gamers will be hesitant to trade their frame rates for 3D glitz.

That leaves so-called "auto-stereoscopic" technologies, still in their nascent stages. Such glasses-free 3D tech is certainly promising, but currently lack the pop of its awkward glasses-driven brethren, raising questions on their price. Many models also suffer from image distortion at certain viewing angles. Clearly this is the more promising approach, but it has a long way to go.

Some analysts estimate that 3D TV revenue could reach $22B USD by 2018. That could certainly be true if manufacturers throw in the chip on most of their lineup. However, that still doesn't mean that anyone will be using the awkward TV plus glasses setup. The 3D chip (unless its of the glasses free variety) will likely sit gathering dust. You couldn't find a more perfect example of overblown CES 2010 hype than 3D TV.
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post #194 of 379 Old 01-13-2010, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by sirjonsnow View Post

If I want 3-D I'll go outside.

exactly

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post #195 of 379 Old 01-13-2010, 08:16 AM
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When displays can render a 3D image without the need for glasses it will go mainstream. Until then it's SVHS all over again.

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post #196 of 379 Old 01-13-2010, 08:25 AM
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Hi, guys, I am new here, and guess what, the only reason I am here is because
I planed to buy 52" LED Aquos these past holidays and happened to see Avatar. Then I
realized its really what I want. 3D . Then I began research and found about CES2010 and your forum. What I found on this forum is a lot of chaps who invested in their HDTVs and
bashing 3DTV. Guys u have your 2D HDTV ? fine, watch them and keep tracking of how blacks are on your Kuros. But when I walk in the store in the next 12 month (I postponed buying HDTV for now) ALL I will be looking at is 3d HDTV . For me personally 2D tv, Kuro or Shmuro doesn't exist anymore. I saw a few 3d movies so far, Avatar made me believe that 3D is the future. There is only one thing to that. It has to be 1080p/120fps per eye.
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post #197 of 379 Old 01-13-2010, 08:30 AM
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Quote:


The fact of the matter is simple. As wonderful as watching your media of choice -- sports, movies, or pornography -- in 3D might be, it still requires you to put on goofy glasses.

Well, surprize surprize... we have to wear glasses? Really? That's such a game-changer to all of the conversations we've been having, since no one has realized that until this article.


Quote:


If I want 3-D I'll go outside.

You want color? Just go outside. You want high resolution? Just go outside. You want moving pictures? Just go outside.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #198 of 379 Old 01-13-2010, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill4903485 View Post

Yeah, let's all get in on the next big thing

Let's list some of the "next big things" that have come along in the reproduction of movies. Sound, color, multi-channel sound, HD resolution and now 3D. All logical steps in the continuation of efforts to create a life-like experience on your silver screen. Why are you so opposed to the next step in that progression? Was sound hype? Color? HD?

3D is just the next level. It's that simple...

John

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post #199 of 379 Old 01-13-2010, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
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Let's list some of the "next big things" that have come along in the reproduction of movies. Sound, color, multi-channel sound, HD resolution and now 3D.


Don't forget Widescreen...

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #200 of 379 Old 01-13-2010, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet View Post

Well, surprize surprize... we have to wear glasses? Really? That's such a game-changer to all of the conversations we've been having, since no one has realized that until this article.

People who wear glasses because their eyes are not working 100%
will not watch 3D on their 3Dtv for several hours a day with another
set of (3D)glasses upon their glasses,aint gonna happen.
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post #201 of 379 Old 01-13-2010, 10:23 AM
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People who wear glasses because their eyes are not working 100%
will not watch 3D on their 3Dtv for several hours a day with another
set of (3D)glasses upon their glasses,aint gonna happen.

And you said that in one scentence, which makes more sense than a multi-paragraph diatribe touting the immenent failure of 3D... because 3D viewing requires eyewear.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #202 of 379 Old 01-13-2010, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet View Post

... because 3D viewing requires eyewear.

What about auto-stereoscopic 3D?
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post #203 of 379 Old 01-13-2010, 11:11 AM
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3D is going to be shuttered glasses for some time to come unless you want to pay an enormous amount of money. Projector polarizers (just the polarizers, not factoring in the cost of a projector) cost $1500, maybe (MAYBE) DLP RPTVs could implement some kind of polarized technology. And all current auto-stereoscopic sets are either "sub-720p" (and they won't go into details on just HOW "sub" we're talkin' here) or so finicky and costly that only early adopters with much more disposable income than middle-class consumers will be able to bring them home any time soon.

In 5 years, assuming development continues (and it will) and 3D technology grows apace, we should be seeing some really cool stuff coming down the pipe. For now shuttered glasses at 120fps/eye are going to be our best bet.
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post #204 of 379 Old 01-13-2010, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill4903485 View Post

Someone should have sold asprin and ibuprophen at the CES 2010 3D displays. They would have probably have made a fortune.

As for the buzz in the air, it quickly dissapated once a fully realized product was sitting in front of them. From DailyTech, listed as one of the most overblown demonstrations or lowlights of CES 2010...

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=17371

Three-Dimensional Television/Monitors:
3D was the buzz word on the tongues of every major LCD screen maker. Even the cabbies were talking about it. However, this colorful fad ultimately seems like another questionable promise from a technology that has been flirted with for decades, but never fully embraced.

The fact of the matter is simple. As wonderful as watching your media of choice -- sports, movies, or pornography -- in 3D might be, it still requires you to put on goofy glasses. Outside the movie theater, this has never caught on in the past (despite repeated attempts), and it seems unlikely to now. Can you imagine a bunch of guys sitting down to watch a football game, and the party host saying, "Wait! We've all got to put on our 3D glasses!"?

Such as scene seems pretty unlikely, so that leaves 3D gaming. Sure gamers might be able to swallow the nerd-factor (its hard to be offended by uncool glasses when you're logging 10 hour runs in Warcraft). However, in more cutting edge titles many gamers will be unable to use the tech, as it cuts frame rates by as much as 20 or 30 percent. Final benchmarks remain to be seen, but if early estimates hold true, it seems many gamers will be hesitant to trade their frame rates for 3D glitz.

That leaves so-called "auto-stereoscopic" technologies, still in their nascent stages. Such glasses-free 3D tech is certainly promising, but currently lack the pop of its awkward glasses-driven brethren, raising questions on their price. Many models also suffer from image distortion at certain viewing angles. Clearly this is the more promising approach, but it has a long way to go.

Some analysts estimate that 3D TV revenue could reach $22B USD by 2018. That could certainly be true if manufacturers throw in the chip on most of their lineup. However, that still doesn't mean that anyone will be using the awkward TV plus glasses setup. The 3D chip (unless its of the glasses free variety) will likely sit gathering dust. You couldn't find a more perfect example of overblown CES 2010 hype than 3D TV.

Contrary to the sentiments of this article, almost everyone at CES was excited by the 3D technology. Of course people are eagerly going to put shuttered glasses on when you have a 3D football game showing in your home. They will realize that they are experiencing something that can't be experienced with normal HDTV. Do you wear the glasses 24 hours a day? Of course not, but when there is something on that you want to watch in 3D, you will be ready. I spent 3 days looking at 3D. It will become popular THIS YEAR. I've got nothing invested in it, except that I like to see technology move forward and the shuttered glasses technology is a giant leap over red/blue or even polarized glasses from the past. Panasonic had a camera for sale for $20,000 that shoots 3D. It's a prosumer camera that is going to be perfect for porn. There are already porn movies shot in 3D that will be released on Blu-ray. The critics on this forum are going to be shocked at how the public will want this technology.
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post #205 of 379 Old 01-13-2010, 12:01 PM
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Of course people are eagerly going to put shuttered glasses on when you have a 3D football game showing in your home.

Yea. I can't wait to have a group of people over to watch a ballgame, talk about the game have conversation.......wearing sunglasses!!!!
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post #206 of 379 Old 01-13-2010, 12:07 PM
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Many people will---and I dare say, someday you will too.
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post #207 of 379 Old 01-13-2010, 09:17 PM
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Good news, everyone!

Porn Studios Lead the Stampede into 3D TV

Smart money is on 3DTV hanging around as far as I'm concerned.
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post #208 of 379 Old 01-13-2010, 10:01 PM
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Let me borrow this quote from a little read thread Maurice2 posted the other day. pretty much sums it up:

Quote:


"3D comes to your living room" was supposed to be one of the biggest stories at CES 2010, and indeed it was—the promotional push by Panasonic, LG, Samsung, Sony, and a few smaller panel makers was massive, with multimillion-dollar booth setups intended to awe conference-goers and start the technology off with a bang.

Unfortunately for the billions that have been pumped into R&D and manufacturing for 3D TVs, the normally hype-friendly press has been completely underwhelmed by what its sees after donning the ubiquitous shutter glasses here on the show floor. The collective response from the early adopter crowd at every booth has been, "Meh, I'm not going to buy one of these."

But because of the specific approach that the industry has settled on, consumers don't have to be bowled over for 3D TV to wind up in every living room. Here's a look at the current state of 3D TV, and at why it's coming to a screen near you whether you like it or not.


For some interesting reading read the comment section.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/...y-or-not.ars/1
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post #209 of 379 Old 01-13-2010, 11:57 PM
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Interesting. Because I read that "almost everyone at CES was excited by the 3D technology" from a very reliable source... someone who has yet to see the actual implementation of the technology.
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post #210 of 379 Old 01-14-2010, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agreed View Post

Good news, everyone!

Porn Studios Lead the Stampede into 3D TV

Smart money is on 3DTV hanging around as far as I'm concerned.

I would have agreed with your logic Agreed in 1994, even 1999. The porn industry definitely helped to advance technology in the previous two decades.

But it's 2010; and we've been living in an Internet age for a while. Piracy has left the music and porn industry crippled. They don't have much heft behind their push like year's past.

3D will likely be pushed and fail, only to be repackaged. Just like quad failed because you needed extra speakers, 3D fails because you need extra glasses.
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