3D Mania!! - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
View Poll Results: 3D or Better 2D??
3D 19 90.48%
Better 2D 2 9.52%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

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post #31 of 93 Old 01-12-2010, 10:21 AM
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Unless their giving me quality of the holodeck I'm not really interested except for when it comes to gaming.
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post #32 of 93 Old 01-12-2010, 10:30 AM
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"The only difference is that it is in HD"

Not quite. Previous iterations of 3D have failed because they were inadequate and detracted from the quality of the 2D image. The most recent iterations do not (at least not perceivably).

Anaglyph 3D used Blue and Magenta lenses for each eye that essentially blocked the majority of the visible spectrum of colour from each eye. This made the effect 3D, but made the image look terrible, since only one eye could see red, and the other eye only saw black where red should be, and the same was said for blue hues. This made it never reach popularity, because people would rather watch an image with colour, than an effect that did not. Thus, it was a fad, and a gimmick.

60Hz shutter 3D was known to induce headaches, and even seizures in many viewers due to the quick flashing of light to dark. It was also not widely accepted by the industry, so it was tough to find hardware, source material was home-made or slapped together by third parties, and it cost a lot for the little benefit you got from it.

The new 3D technologies give you full colour, AND HD, and they are not as difficult to enjoy, as you can actually be immersed in the material, rather than being removed by the technology. It also will not cost all that much more because it will be built into all of your devices anyway, it is just a choice of buying glasses or not, then choosing 3D on the blu-ray menu or not.

If you don't like 3D, all the more power to you, don't watch it. But don't try to shoot down emerging technology just because YOU don't like it.
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post #33 of 93 Old 01-12-2010, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathan View Post


I want Smell-O-Vision.

[holds nose]Don't think I'd want to watch Slumdog Millionaire with that[breathes again]

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post #34 of 93 Old 01-12-2010, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Z3VH View Post

The new 3D technologies give you full colour, AND HD, and they are not as difficult to enjoy, as you can actually be immersed in the material, rather than being removed by the technology. It also will not cost all that much more because it will be built into all of your devices anyway, it is just a choice of buying glasses or not, then choosing 3D on the blu-ray menu or not.

I agree - after a minute or two of watching Avatar I forgot I had the glases on and the 3D did not at all look unnatural.

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post #35 of 93 Old 01-12-2010, 02:14 PM
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Whats wrong with the HDTV and Projector I have now?? Why do I have to go out and buy another??

Why not a firmware update?? We're at a time now that this is completely feasible. My bluray player (recently sold cause my HTPC is just as good) was hooked up to my network and received firmware updates regularly.

That was one of the reasons I sold it, every time I put in a bluray to watch (wasn't very frequent) I'd get a darn firmware update notification.... I hated that.

Give me a firmware update for the projector I just bought, or no 3D for me.

Oh, not to mention, dont you need special glasses too?? Thats another $150 for one set.

No thanks.

**EDIT** Avatar was awesome!! Watched it twice now, 2D and 3D. Didn't matter, 3D was very cool though. Much better than the old red/blue 3D crap.

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post #36 of 93 Old 01-12-2010, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Z3VH View Post


If you don't like 3D, all the more power to you, don't watch it. But don't try to shoot down emerging technology just because YOU don't like it.

Of course I can shoot down technology if I don't like it. At the end that is exactly what will happen on a mass scale. It's what always happens. It's called the market. Either the public will buy it, or it won't. Now granted, I'm but one small drop in a large bucket and certainly don't consider myself a Luddite. I just don't see a compelling need to purchase this technology, regardless whether it is new or not.

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post #37 of 93 Old 01-12-2010, 02:55 PM
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The new Bond film has been further delayed so they can modify if for 3D......FFS

...well that and the sale of MGM

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post #38 of 93 Old 01-12-2010, 03:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elill View Post

The new Bond film has been further delayed so they can modify if for 3D......FFS

...well that and the sale of MGM

See...that's exactly the kind of thing I DON'T want to hear. People say "what do you care if I like 3D"...this is why; because the rest of us who don't care, get screwed by delays, higher prices, new equipment, etc.

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post #39 of 93 Old 01-12-2010, 03:07 PM
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3D gives me a headache. It seems like a waste of effort. I'm not sure I understand why the industry is pushing this technology so vigorously. I will not jump on the bandwagon for some time. It does seem to be rather fadish and gimmicky.
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post #40 of 93 Old 01-12-2010, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

...Am I the only one who could give a good, rat's a** about 3D??

I mean, has this ever been more than the most fickle of fleeting fads? And now...at a time where we could really be focusing on true innovations in improving the way we view content...it seems that the industry is hell-bent on getting these funny glasses back on our heads.

Well, I tell ya what: if you want to wear them in my theater, you better bring your own...and I'll throw something at your head, while we watch Reservoir Dogs in glorious 2D!

Maybe you feel the same way...maybe you don't?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BritInVA View Post

I agree - after a minute or two of watching Avatar I forgot I had the glases on and the 3D did not at all look unnatural.

I wish I could say the same. My wife and I saw Avatar in 3D (Dolby's version, I think) and although we didn't get headaches we did find the glasses annoying. There was a sense of having lost one's peripheral vision - almost like tunnel vision.

ck
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post #41 of 93 Old 01-12-2010, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xzener View Post

Whats wrong with the HDTV and Projector I have now?? Why do I have to go out and buy another??

Why not a firmware update?? We're at a time now that this is completely feasible. My bluray player (recently sold cause my HTPC is just as good) was hooked up to my network and received firmware updates regularly.

That was one of the reasons I sold it, every time I put in a bluray to watch (wasn't very frequent) I'd get a darn firmware update notification.... I hated that.

Give me a firmware update for the projector I just bought, or no 3D for me.

Oh, not to mention, dont you need special glasses too?? Thats another $150 for one set.

No thanks.

**EDIT** Avatar was awesome!! Watched it twice now, 2D and 3D. Didn't matter, 3D was very cool though. Much better than the old red/blue 3D crap.

No one was saying there was anything wrong with your current projector. If you say you won't watch 3D movies/TV, you don't need to upgrade... much like those people who still say they can't see/hear the difference between a DVD and BluRay, there is no reason they NEED to buy BluRay players. It is something new, that if you want it, it is available. The release of 3D compatible hardware does not immediately render all non-3D displays and players non-functional.

The reason most BluRay players cannot be flash-upgraded to the 3D spec is the 3D spec requires a different/more powerful processor. Your BluRay player was a purpose-built piece of hardware. No amount of software written for the older chips will magically make them faster, and have all the necessary instruction sets and IO. The reason the PS3 is software upgradable is because it uses the Cell processor which already had the computing overhead, and all BluRay playback was already emulated through software. No amount of software would turn a blender into a food-processor.

The reason Displays can't be magically upgraded through software is that the LCD panel controller, and the panel itself were never made to support the necessary refresh rate. They simply can't change images on the screen fast enough.

Quote:
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Of course I can shoot down technology if I don't like it. At the end that is exactly what will happen on a mass scale. It's what always happens. It's called the market. Either the public will buy it, or it won't. Now granted, I'm but one small drop in a large bucket and certainly don't consider myself a Luddite. I just don't see a compelling need to purchase this technology, regardless whether it is new or not.

Ok, but you are attempting to shoot down something you say you will never buy. Tell me this... if you were in the market for a new BluRay player, and you saw two identical boxes with the exception that one supported 3D and the other didn't and they were the same price, or even $5 different, would you refuse to buy the one with 3D support simply on merit ? JUST because it supported 3D ? Does the fact that it supports 3D somehow detract from your 2D viewing experience ?

As far as I know, there is no plan for ANY 3D exclusive programming. Everything you can see in 3D is also going to be available in 2D. Trying to nay-say and shoot down 3D technology is pointless, because it in no way replaces 2D programming or movies. This argument is like people saying Visual Teleconferencing should never have been made because our phones work just fine.

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...
I wish I could say the same. My wife and I saw Avatar in 3D (Dolby's version, I think) and although we didn't get headaches we did find the glasses annoying. There was a sense of having lost one's peripheral vision - almost like tunnel vision.

ck

It sounds like you may have been sitting in a theatre with a screen that was too small. My only complaint about it was that you don't get to choose your focus. If you WANTED to focus on the animal walking by in the background, but the camera was focused on the subject, you couldn't change the focus... but you get the same in 2D, it just isn't apparent to your brain that there is something else to focus on.
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post #42 of 93 Old 01-12-2010, 04:47 PM
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Just out of curiosity, what are the two 3D movies that made the cut?

I'd like to see a few old Sci Fi films in 3D proably Forbidden Planet and 2001 ASO.

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post #43 of 93 Old 01-12-2010, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Z3VH View Post

Ok, but you are attempting to shoot down something you say you will never buy. Tell me this... if you were in the market for a new BluRay player, and you saw two identical boxes with the exception that one supported 3D and the other didn't and they were the same price, or even $5 different, would you refuse to buy the one with 3D support simply on merit ? JUST because it supported 3D ? Does the fact that it supports 3D somehow detract from your 2D viewing experience ?

See that is where you are missing the point. If not enough people are willing to pay for the technology, the market place will force the demise of the tech. No manufacturer is going to say "hmmm, let's give all these good people some expensive new tech that they don't want and therefore aren't willing to pay for for free." In your hypothetical scenario when all things are equal, including price, then yes it is natural to select the product with more features if those features are perceived as valuable to the consumer. 3d has no value for me. Like a BR play that offers movies on demand, I could care less if it's on the features page and it doesn't effect my buying decision.

Anyway, I get that you are excited at this new technology. It seems like a bunch of pretty tech savy people on this forum (like me) aren't. That is telling. Not saying that you can't enjoy 3D. I'm just guessing that this lack of enthusiasm will impact the market. Me, I'm still waiting on the flying cars and jet packs I was promised as a child...

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post #44 of 93 Old 01-12-2010, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathan View Post

Anyway, I get that you are excited at this new technology. It seems like a bunch of pretty tech savy people on this forum (like me) aren't. That is telling. Not saying that you can't enjoy 3D. I'm just guessing that this lack of enthusiasm will impact the market. Me, I'm still waiting on the flying cars and jet packs I was promised as a child...


I think your just worried that the investment in your IB set up will keep shaking the glasses off you nose

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post #45 of 93 Old 01-12-2010, 08:49 PM
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I for one an not jumping on the 3D bandwagon. Avatar is exactly the reason why I'm not. My wife and I went this past weekend and watched it in 3D. I found the glasses hard to get used to and distracting. I also commented to her that I found that some of the images that were supposed to be 3D fuzzy and unnatural and she said she thought the same thing. I still don't think that this technology has been perfected and still IMO is not ready for prime time. I think is is even less ready for the home.

I would like to see Avatar in 2D to see if I find the film "better" or I could just wait until it comes out on blu-ray.

I think it will be a very long time before I buy into the 3D hype and technology.

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post #46 of 93 Old 01-12-2010, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
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I still don't think that this technology has been perfected and still IMO is not ready for prime time. I think is is even less ready for the home.

I completely agree, I wouldn't even say it was "half baked", it is still in the mixing bowl awaiting eggs in my opinion. I feel the effects are still a gimmick and don't totally immerse the viewer, until such time I wont be an advocate - and the glasses need a serious rework too.

I suppose the thing that annoys me the most is that Avatar is a really ordinary film (in terms of scripting), James Cameron needs a kick up the _____. Seems to be the way with these blockbusters.

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post #47 of 93 Old 01-12-2010, 10:39 PM
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I'm all for it. Think a lot of the people that don't like or want it are selfish. Millions of people over the years have stood in line for 2 plus hours at Disney World to watch some 10 minute 3D flick. It is for a lot, something that will be out of are price range for a couple of years. I don't understand people saying it's not ready for home use. How does a company get money to further the 3D endeavor? You just didn't just have a HT. You built it over week, months, and for some slackers, years. You just finding out that you'll never be done.
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post #48 of 93 Old 01-13-2010, 03:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clev3r View Post

I'm all for it. Think a lot of the people that don't like or want it are selfish. Millions of people over the years have stood in line for 2 plus hours at Disney World to watch some 10 minute 3D flick. It is for a lot, something that will be out of are price range for a couple of years. I don't understand people saying it's not ready for home use. How does a company get money to further the 3D endeavor? You just didn't just have a HT. You built it over week, months, and for some slackers, years. You just finding out that you'll never be done.

In strict economic terms you are correct that consumers are selfish. They tend to consume in their best interests. How does a producer make money? They wisely invest in a product where there is demand. In this case they are trying to develop demand for a product that may, or may not sell at the end. It's a risky proposition. But then again so is any new product.

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post #49 of 93 Old 01-13-2010, 05:24 AM
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I realize there was a fair amount of Runco marketing slant to what I posted. I simply thought the significant points to bring forward (whether you like 3D or not) were the display, distribution and broadcast standards haven't be settled AND therefore, jumping on a 3D product now may prove to be an expensive problem in the future. I also did not want to snip those statements from the release and be shat upon for "out of context" snippets.

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post #50 of 93 Old 01-13-2010, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warrenP View Post


The issue, at least to me, is the technology. The issue of headaches needs to be resolved, and eventually they need to bring 3D without the glasses. There are some monitors that can do that now, mostly used in labs - not home theater. Pioneer and Sony both have small displays that hook up to a PC (at least I know the Pioneer one does) that are 3D without glasses. Not monitors mind you, they are specific pieces running their own software, you can't run a movie on them, however they are examples of where 3D is heading.


While I am not a fan of 3D either (though I have not yet seen "Avatar"), I do agree with Warren's comments that once technology progresses to the point of no headaches/glasses you will begin to see mainstream adoption. While of course some movies are much better suited for 3D, I think once there is widespread industry and general public acceptance, 2D will be a thing of the past. After having my HT for only a year, I hope that day is a long way away. As CD stated, the next logical progression seems to be going with streaming movies.
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post #51 of 93 Old 01-13-2010, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clev3r View Post

Think a lot of the people that don't like or want it are selfish.

So, are we supposed to purchase this 3D technology with our own hard earned money because we don't like it and don't want to use it? I can't find a single grain of logic in that statement. Evan as an opinion it rings hollow.

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Millions of people over the years have stood in line for 2 plus hours at Disney World to watch some 10 minute 3D flick.

Insert 'crazy' before 'people' in that statement, and it makes a little more sense.

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You built it over week, months, and for some slackers, years.

Criticism like that will certainly not endear you to anyone on a Dedicated Theater Design & Construction forum.

I know I know, don't feed the trolls...
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post #52 of 93 Old 01-13-2010, 06:55 AM
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Well there seems to be only two camps. Love it or hate it. It appears to me from this thread that most the "hate its" have problems with the glasses giving them headaches etc. To me that's the same as the arguments over screen door effect and rainbow . You either see it or you don't. I fully believe this limitation of the flicker causing headaches can be overcome. The other problem is people who are just plain annoyed wearing glasses. I would imagine this is the same problem Navin R. Johnson had in The Jerk. Some people just will never adjust.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
He invents a handle for glasses to stop people from bending the frames as they remove the glasses to the side. The handle forces you to remove them straight to the front. He makes a fortune until the poeple who can't resist looking at the handle get cross eyed and sue him for everything he has. Which leads to the classic...."I don't need ANYTHING. Except this chair. I don't need anything except this chair, and this ashtray..."


I currently have a standard def Virtual-Fx set up with four pair of wireless shutter glasses. I can't use it with my new "3D Ready" Mits 65". The Virtual-fx requires a 480i signal and the Mits upconverts. Maybe there's some setting in there to get it to stop up-converting, but I haven't fouind it. Anyway, it works great with my old projector.

The only minor problems I've run into are the somewhat narrow cone and short range of the IR emitter. Turning your head too far to the side, sitting too far to the side or too far back shuts off the glasses as they lose the signal. These should be easily overcome. When sitting in the sweet spot, it's great. Darker image doesn't really bother me and that too can be overcome.

The only major problem is the lack of content. And that fix appears to be on the horizon.

I can't wait for HD 3D.

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post #53 of 93 Old 01-13-2010, 09:21 AM
 
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I am not excited at all about 3D. That is not to say that I don't like it. I just think it is way to soon to get excited about 3D in the home. Once the technology is firmly established (standards and content available) then I will probably get on board, but I will have to admit I am in no hurry for it.
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post #54 of 93 Old 01-13-2010, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlogan6797 View Post

Well there seems to be only two camps. Love it or hate it. It appears to me from this thread that most the "hate its" have problems with the glasses giving them headaches etc.

No,not really. I just don't see it adding much if anything the the vast majority of the types of films I like.

Also screen door is screen door if you don't see it at the viewing distance others do you need glasses or you needed them updated.

Art

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post #55 of 93 Old 01-13-2010, 12:04 PM
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OK so now Art and mjg are gonna make a liar out of me. I stand corrected. There IS a middle ground. Which probably actually represents the vast, silent majority.

Interestingly enough, well to me anyway, the Virtual-fx can create 3D content from 2D on the fly. When I 've done that, what I see is a 3D "effect." There is definitley depth to the image, but nothing pops out. I've always likened it to looking through a window. There is depth from the screen to the background, but nothing in "front" of the screen.

This is why I look forward to content like AVATAR. Was the 3D necessary? No, but I felt like it really added something. Watching 2D converted to 3D is just not the same.

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post #56 of 93 Old 01-13-2010, 12:54 PM
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I don't understand how certain people on here are against something that they personally haven't experienced. I for once will "yay or nay" when I OWN one or seen enough content in 3D before making a final judgment. No one is going to make you watch your classic movies in 3D, nor 2D movies will be obsolete any time soon. If you're so worried that classic movie will not be available in 3D, I suggest you buy or burns several extra copies. Technology will always progress, that's how we gets where we are now. And couple of years ago, I though 720p was heaven.

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post #57 of 93 Old 01-13-2010, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathan View Post

In strict economic terms you are correct that consumers are selfish. They tend to consume in their best interests. How does a producer make money? They wisely invest in a product where there is demand. In this case they are trying to develop demand for a product that may, or may not sell at the end. It's a risky proposition. But then again so is any new product.

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Originally Posted by HDvids4all View Post

So, are we supposed to purchase this 3D technology with our own hard earned money because we don't like it and don't want to use it? I can't find a single grain of logic in that statement. Evan as an opinion it rings hollow.
...

Well, the "risky" debate is over. The 3D spec was finalized, hardware was developed, and it is beginning to hit the market. There is no more "risk" in producers making their movies and hoping technology will allow them to display it properly. The tech is already here.

As for who is funding it, 3D compatibility will simply be inherent in all of the necessary components, since it is all built into the next generation video processors. Soon enough you won't be able to find new tech that isn't compatible. And again... no one is saying your old gear will not work. There is absolutely NO reason you HAVE to upgrade. This isn't communist Russia. No one is pulling the wallet out of your pocket without your permission. Do you like your old gear ? Great, stick with it. Are you looking to upgrade ? Fine, go ahead and buy something newer... more than likely if you wait a year, you will not be able to find new tech without 3D ready components. Does that fact alone mean you will refuse to upgrade ? Are you really so opposed to 3D technology that you will refuse to buy something solely on the fact that it has a feature you won't use ?

All I am saying is don't nay-say about how terrible 3D is and how much you didn't like it, trying to convince others not to like it. The tech is here, and those who are interested can buy it. Those who are stuck in the 20th century can carry on as they have for the past 8 years. This whole anti-3D discussion is the equivalent of a dumb jock going to the theatre with his girlfriend and making bone-head comments throughout the film, so no one else in the theatre can enjoy the movie even if they otherwise would have.
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post #58 of 93 Old 01-13-2010, 05:18 PM
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Like it or lump it 3D is coming. It is going to big in the theaters and gaming in the future. Many top broadcasters attended CES looking at 3D technology for the consumer as they plan content packages.

By the spring you might see some test done in special markets by ESPN and FOX from what I was told. The same person told me that there will be even more test market and test events done by the end of the year 2010.

Dust of your bongs and weed stash and get them glasses ready...

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post #59 of 93 Old 01-13-2010, 05:41 PM
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Did Avatar really warrant all this fuss over 3D (and yes, I saw it in IMAX 3D)? All of a sudden manufacturers are ready to bet the farm that everyone's ready to rebuy all their gear on a format that didn't catch on as more than a gimmick the number of times it ran it's course before?

The chatter is that this time we'll get "real 3D" as opposed to anylgraph. If it ends up being a step backwards from the sharp picture with decent brightness and contrast (black level was a big enough step back going digital from CRT, thank you) then a lot of us on this forum may question the new bucks we shell out.

Or maybe it works out wonderfully....we'll see.

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post #60 of 93 Old 01-13-2010, 05:56 PM
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Well for projection you will need massive amounts of light to get the depth afforded it now via contrast and lumens with 2D in 3D.

On my screen I need about 4000 lumens. Not a lot of options in that range that aren't some step back in other PQ parameters.

Art

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