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post #61 of 75 Old 01-13-2010, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by 3Z3VH View Post


All I am saying is don't nay-say about how terrible 3D is and how much you didn't like it, trying to convince others not to like it. The tech is here, and those who are interested can buy it. Those who are stuck in the 20th century can carry on as they have for the past 8 years. This whole anti-3D discussion is the equivalent of a dumb jock going to the theatre with his girlfriend and making bone-head comments throughout the film, so no one else in the theatre can enjoy the movie even if they otherwise would have.

Ahhh. I see. So your point is that because I have no interest in this technology it means I'm annoying and dumb. Gotcha. Thanks for the contribution to this site.

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post #62 of 75 Old 01-13-2010, 06:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post

CDL ...
I realize there was a fair amount of Runco marketing slant to what I posted. I simply thought the significant points to bring forward (whether you like 3D or not) were the display, distribution and broadcast standards haven't be settled AND therefore, jumping on a 3D product now may prove to be an expensive problem in the future. I also did not want to snip those statements from the release and be shat upon for "out of context" snippets.

Cool.

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post #63 of 75 Old 01-13-2010, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jive Turkey View Post

Did Avatar really warrant all this fuss over 3D (and yes, I saw it in IMAX 3D)? All of a sudden manufacturers are ready to bet the farm that everyone's ready to rebuy all their gear on a format that didn't catch on as more than a gimmick the number of times it ran it's course before?

See, this is my problem in a nutshell JT. Like I've said previously, as long as it isn't forced upon me, I don't care if you want to watch your movies in 4-D and stereoscope.

What I don't understand...and don't appreciate...is there are a number of issues (and yes, digital media is near and dear to my heart, but it's not the only one...others have mentioned HDMI, wireless, etc) that "the industry" has been trying to get right for years...and now, in what appears to be out of left field (or better yet, straight out of the 60's), this is all of a sudden priority number one to rush to market? I don't get it...but I do; it's all about money, money, money.

Mark my words 3-D zealots; I think you'll be stacking your 3-D BD player up next to the Laserdiscs.

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post #64 of 75 Old 01-15-2010, 04:26 AM
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I absolutely agree with the OP! I dont have any interest at all.

I get frustrated trying to sort through many agruementative posts on here for years now as I consider changes and upgrades to my theater room (I dont post much). 3D is easy though - a simple skip it. I actually cannot really see the 3D very well.

I've been to the 3D Christmas Carol and Avatar. As we walked out my girl was talking about how she loved the 3D this and that (snow, streets, etc.) I missed a ton of the effects! I saw the snow, for example but not in 3D. Save the most extreme 3D effects I was surprised I missed so much 3D detail thanks to my vision problems. The free bonus was the headache.

So, my hope is that if 3D takes hold I will be able to get 2D equipment on the cheap because I dont want to pay for what I cannot even see. I'm still trying to save for a used RS2 let alone the hottest new 3D rig.

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post #65 of 75 Old 01-15-2010, 03:22 PM
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...and when the G3000 SynVis PDF goes 3D...back to a six pack.

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post #66 of 75 Old 01-15-2010, 03:32 PM
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I'm all for better 2d, but will most likely wait for the dust to settle on 3d before making any purchases in the 3d format. Too many times I jump in right away, and sometimes it works out, and most other times I am stuck with a format that is useless, or you can't get the media for it anymore.
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post #67 of 75 Old 02-27-2010, 06:59 PM
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I'll stick with 2D for the time being.

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post #68 of 75 Old 02-27-2010, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

OK...I have put this off, and tried to push through the self-indulgent urge to vent in an actual post. But with CES 3D-mania, I can bare it no longer.

Am I the only one who could give a good, rat's a** about 3D??

I mean, has this ever been more than the most fickle of fleeting fads? And now...at a time where we could really be focusing on true innovations in improving the way we view content...it seems that the industry is hell-bent on getting these funny glasses back on our heads.

Well, I tell ya what: if you want to wear them in my theater, you better bring your own...and I'll throw something at your head, while we watch Reservoir Dogs in glorious 2D!

Maybe you feel the same way...maybe you don't?

CD

I posted the following on another thread but since it goes a long way in answering your question regarding 3D I thought I would pass it along:

Don't waste your money selling your nearly brand new high-def 2D equipment (you will lose money) and buying new "3D" equipment (it will cost you MORE MONEY, so you would lose twice).

First off; 3D is nothing but a FAD at this point, specifically designed to get warm bodies into theaters, which with the success of Avatar, has taken place and to generate a new revenue stream for electronics manufacturers. Secondly and this is VERY important, 3D technology for home use is in it's infancy, I dare say embryonic phase at this point.

The 3D sets/equipment that will be sold are technologically primitive at this point. The manufacturers will charge a very hefty premium for this new 3D equipment and will use the early adopter/3D suckers as their "beta testing" Guinea Pigs. Over TIME these folks will find a lot of the flaws and problems that exist with this infant 3D tech because it will not work as promised. They will complain as early adopters always do, the manufacturers will look at these complaints (along with those from the broadcasters who try to implement 3D for the masses) and make corrections.

This process will repeat itself for around 8 to 15 years = 3 to 5 generations of 3D technology upgrades until the manufacturers finally get 3D working properly/to the satisfaction of the majority of people using it. Then (IF, and it is a huge "IF") 3D technology using GLASSES even takes off, a 3D quality "standard" will finally be established, the masses will buy into the system, prices will eventually come down BIG TIME! If you "MUST HAVE 3D", THAT IS THE TIME TO BUY... AFTER THE SUCKERS/Beta testers have spent their money working out ALL of the very real "kinks" inherent in 3D using glasses: I have already seen manufacturers trying to hawk phony "super deluxe" 3D glasses for $300!

Given all of the above factors, you are looking at 8 to 15 years before you should even begin to think about possibly jumping on the 3D band wagon. Why such a long, indefinite, indefinable time frame? Because no one has any idea what kind of problems are going present themselves, how quickly or slowly 3D will even develop, be adopted or if the whole 3D for home use format will be dead on arrival (a very real possibility given the fact that we are in a world-wide economic recession possibly bordering on a depression and people do not have money to waste on "new and improved" 3D equipment when they have perfectly fine and working 2D 1080p/ 1.3 HDMI high def equipment that they recently spent a fortune purchasing.

Forget about all of the ooh, aah 3D "hype" coming from the manufacturers! A person would have to be out of their mind to buy a 3D TV or 3D front projector this early in the game, and make no mistake it is a GAME designed by the manufacturers to get the consumer to look with disdain on what these same folks had sold them on being the epitome/end all/be all in HD less than a year ago so that they will throw it all away to buy 3D.

At this stage of the game stay; away from 3D for home use like the plague!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My advice: Relax and enjoy your existing 1080p/1.3a HDMI high-def equipment. Save your money, think LONG-TERM and enjoy your existing new/nearly brand new equipment (given the economy, you want it to last a good 5 to 8 years).

Regarding 3D =

While I enjoyed the 3D technology used in Avatar, like millions of other consumers in America and around the world who have spent BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS of dollars recently upgrading our entire HD A/V theater systems so that they now meet the 1080p/1.3HDMI HD standard, I refuse to trash-can my new ONKYO PR-SC5507p pre-pro or our SONY BDP S550 Blu-ray player or SONY VPL-VW60 projector so that "the powers that be" can sell me UNPROVEN, NO SINGLE STANDARD, 3D technology that will need an entirely new UNPROVEN 1.4 HDMI format in order to view 3D content rendering nearly everything we own that is 1.3 HDMI useless.

I will let the early adopter "suckers" spend THEIR money beta testing this 3D technology. I will let THEM throw THEIR money down the toilet on a supposedly "new and improved," NO SINGLE STANDARD 3D = shutter glasses, non shutter glasses, polarized glasses, non polarized glasses, red and green glasses, non red and green glasses, and UNPROOVEN 1.4 HDMI format.

The upcoming 3D format wars (with millions of "early adopter" casualties left in it's wake with billions of dollars worth of now worthless technology they can't even sell on Craigslist when everything finally shakes out a decade from now) are going to make HD/Bluray fiasco look like a walk in the park.

Remember: SONY, ONKYO, Denon, Yamaha, etc... haven't even worked out all of the 1.3 HDMI "bugs" yet on gear they have already sold and they expect us to throw it ALL AWAY for an entirely new and unproven 1.4 HDMI format that they themselves will no longer support as soon as the "new and improved", equally untested 1.5 HDMI format comes along.

As for "3DTV"; just look at the existing poor "quality" of HD programming we are being fed by the likes of Comcast, DISH and Direct TV, etc. Many of the HD NFL play off games just broadcast were not sharp or crisp/very poor and appeared to be 720p at best. People are not going to spend billions of dollars on new 3DTV's while HD broadcasters continually feed them lousy HD signals.

Is 3D cool? Yes, from a technological standpoint, Avatar in 3D is a game changer for theaters. However, ONCE A STANDARD IS FINALLY AGREED UPON (after this next bloody 3D "format war" is finally over which could take another decade), it will cost tens of thousands of dollars (if not more) to replace nearly all of a families existing AV equipment in order to even remotely begin to bring the quality of that 3D theater experience to the average persons home theater and unless people have their heads in the sand, we are in the midst of one of the severest economic downturns since the Great Depression.

As for me; someone feel free to contact me in about ten - fifteen years when the PROVEN, ONE-STANDARD, GLASS-LESS 3D is finally available at a reasonable price. Until then I will sit the 3D, 1.4abcd (1. whatever) HDMI format war out and be content and enjoy the incredible HD system I already have which is bought and paid for.

I can wait 10 - 15 years for this whole 3D mess to finally shake out because I and multitudes of AVS members are tired of being used as beta testers for an industry that continues to treat us like we are nothing but walking dollar signs that can be manipulated into throwing away our gear every 2-3 years for their latest fad. And yes, at this point 3D is just a fad.

In regard to replacing existing A/V gear simply in order to accommodate 3D:

Will I replace my PJ within 5-10 years? Probably, IF the improvement is substantially better than what I have now, which it isn't (much higher lumens, much sharper picture, LED lit, etc..., otherwise what is the point?) and I do not have to mortgage my house to do it. But I refuse to be led around by the nose and manipulated into blowing out perfectly outstanding A/V gear and becoming their free 3D beta tester by the latest A/V 3D FAD to come along.

One more thing; if anyone here on AVS thinks they are going to even begin to have/reproduce the same 3D visual experience viewing AVATAR in your existing home theater that you had at the multi million dollar IMAX 3D theater in the near future or in the future without spending thousands, upon thousands of dollars, upgrading their equipment, there is a bridge in Brookline I can sell you real cheap.

As I said above: someone feel free to call me in 10 to 15 years when GLASSLESS 3D is fully developed and fully comes into it's own and those nasty "bugs" have been worked out and it is available at a reasonable price. Until then, have fun all you "early adopter, beta testing, Guinea Pigs". But before you take the 3d plunge, I would advise you to remember the lessons of the HD/Bluray format war when many of you lost small and large fortunes after the powers that be decided that HD was worthless and they pulled their entire support for the format in behalf of Bluray, after they had sold you all that stuff, leaving all of you suckers (in their eyes) holding the bag.

I can envision 3 to 8 years from now, the same thing taking place regarding 3D; many AVS members sitting around, like they did with their HD equipment and software, with utter dismay on their faces and anger, realizing they have been pawned once again looking at all of their formerly new and improved, latest 3D technology equipment, and glasses that have suddenly been declared outdated and relegated to the dust bin by the electronics corporations who are ready to sell you on their latest fad.

They will have draws upon draws FULL of different kinds of 3D glasses: polarized, shutter, red, green, etc because there will not be just one way the electronics powers that be will decide upon for you to watch 3D Why? All the better to sell you stuff my dear. There will be low end 3D glasses for the masses and then there will be high end, scam videophile 3D glasses that will cost you a fortune this is already taking place with some 3D super glasses being marketed at $300! (Oh, joy, think MONSTER CABLES only for 3D glasses!). Most of this stuff purchased with your hard-earned money will end up in land fills or being blown out on Craigslist for pennies on the dollar because they will say: "Those things are useless and no longer needed because this is the new and improved way we are going to do 3D from now on."

As for me, and others here on AVS who have seen this script/scam/game before; no thanks, we will sit this 3D FAD out (like many of us wisely did during the HD/Bluray format mess.) and when the war is all over (contrary to popular opinion, there will be a 3D war which system shutter glasses/non shutter glasses/polarized/non polarized etc, because their are BILLIONS of dollars at stake.) and things finally shake out, then and only then will we bite the bullet and upgrade our A/V equipment to accommodate 3D.

After posting the above on another web site I received the following, confirming what I have said:

I've got 30 years behind me in the CE business, have written for a trade magazine for 7 years, and am what one would describe as an early adopter. I couldn't agree with you more. New tech is embraced by the marketplace when one of two things happen:

1) Consumers are forced into a change due to the retirement of an existing format, or:

2) There's a compelling case for the new format on its merits alone.

Neither is the case with 3DTV. It's cool to be sure, but no one but the manufacturers were clamoring for it. It's nothing but a profit recovery strategy at this point because virtually no one is making money on TV sets any more; making or selling them.

My guess is 3D will be most effective if used as a way for movie companies to keep people in the theatres, and I for one would stick to that. It would be a key differentiator between the theater and increasingly sophisticated home theater experience, a fact that will be increasingly more important as cinema ticket prices increase at the same time very big screen home theater hits true mass market price levels.
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post #69 of 75 Old 02-27-2010, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmouse007 View Post

i posted the following on another thread but since it goes a long way in answering your question regarding 3d i thought i would pass it along:

Don't waste your money selling your nearly brand new high-def 2d equipment (you will lose money) and buying new "3d" equipment (it will cost you more money, so you would lose twice).

First off; 3d is nothing but a fad at this point, specifically designed to get warm bodies into theaters, which with the success of avatar, has taken place and to generate a new revenue stream for electronics manufacturers. Secondly and this is very important, 3d technology for home use is in it's infancy, i dare say embryonic phase at this point.

The 3d sets/equipment that will be sold are technologically primitive at this point. The manufacturers will charge a very hefty premium for this new 3d equipment and will use the early adopter/3d suckers as their "beta testing" guinea pigs. Over time these folks will find a lot of the flaws and problems that exist with this infant 3d tech because it will not work as promised. They will complain as early adopters always do, the manufacturers will look at these complaints (along with those from the broadcasters who try to implement 3d for the masses) and make corrections.

This process will repeat itself for around 8 to 15 years = 3 to 5 generations of 3d technology upgrades until the manufacturers finally get 3d working properly/to the satisfaction of the majority of people using it. Then (if, and it is a huge "if") 3d technology using glasses even takes off, a 3d quality "standard" will finally be established, the masses will buy into the system, prices will eventually come down big time! If you "must have 3d", that is the time to buy... After the suckers/beta testers have spent their money working out all of the very real "kinks" inherent in 3d using glasses: I have already seen manufacturers trying to hawk phony "super deluxe" 3d glasses for $300!

Given all of the above factors, you are looking at 8 to 15 years before you should even begin to think about possibly jumping on the 3d band wagon. Why such a long, indefinite, indefinable time frame? Because no one has any idea what kind of problems are going present themselves, how quickly or slowly 3d will even develop, be adopted or if the whole 3d for home use format will be dead on arrival (a very real possibility given the fact that we are in a world-wide economic recession possibly bordering on a depression and people do not have money to waste on "new and improved" 3d equipment when they have perfectly fine and working 2d 1080p/ 1.3 hdmi high def equipment that they recently spent a fortune purchasing.

Forget about all of the ooh, aah 3d "hype" coming from the manufacturers! A person would have to be out of their mind to buy a 3d tv or 3d front projector this early in the game, and make no mistake it is a game designed by the manufacturers to get the consumer to look with disdain on what these same folks had sold them on being the epitome/end all/be all in hd less than a year ago so that they will throw it all away to buy 3d.

At this stage of the game stay; away from 3d for home use like the plague!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My advice: Relax and enjoy your existing 1080p/1.3a hdmi high-def equipment. Save your money, think long-term and enjoy your existing new/nearly brand new equipment (given the economy, you want it to last a good 5 to 8 years).

Regarding 3d =

while i enjoyed the 3d technology used in avatar, like millions of other consumers in america and around the world who have spent billions upon billions of dollars recently upgrading our entire hd a/v theater systems so that they now meet the 1080p/1.3hdmi hd standard, i refuse to trash-can my new onkyo pr-sc5507p pre-pro or our sony bdp s550 blu-ray player or sony vpl-vw60 projector so that "the powers that be" can sell me unproven, no single standard, 3d technology that will need an entirely new unproven 1.4 hdmi format in order to view 3d content rendering nearly everything we own that is 1.3 hdmi useless.

I will let the early adopter "suckers" spend their money beta testing this 3d technology. I will let them throw their money down the toilet on a supposedly "new and improved," no single standard 3d = shutter glasses, non shutter glasses, polarized glasses, non polarized glasses, red and green glasses, non red and green glasses, and unprooven 1.4 hdmi format.

The upcoming 3d format wars (with millions of "early adopter" casualties left in it's wake with billions of dollars worth of now worthless technology they can't even sell on craigslist when everything finally shakes out a decade from now) are going to make hd/bluray fiasco look like a walk in the park.

Remember: Sony, onkyo, denon, yamaha, etc... Haven't even worked out all of the 1.3 hdmi "bugs" yet on gear they have already sold and they expect us to throw it all away for an entirely new and unproven 1.4 hdmi format that they themselves will no longer support as soon as the "new and improved", equally untested 1.5 hdmi format comes along.

As for "3dtv"; just look at the existing poor "quality" of hd programming we are being fed by the likes of comcast, dish and direct tv, etc. Many of the hd nfl play off games just broadcast were not sharp or crisp/very poor and appeared to be 720p at best. People are not going to spend billions of dollars on new 3dtv's while hd broadcasters continually feed them lousy hd signals.

Is 3d cool? Yes, from a technological standpoint, avatar in 3d is a game changer for theaters. However, once a standard is finally agreed upon (after this next bloody 3d "format war" is finally over which could take another decade), it will cost tens of thousands of dollars (if not more) to replace nearly all of a families existing av equipment in order to even remotely begin to bring the quality of that 3d theater experience to the average persons home theater and unless people have their heads in the sand, we are in the midst of one of the severest economic downturns since the great depression.

As for me; someone feel free to contact me in about ten - fifteen years when the proven, one-standard, glass-less 3d is finally available at a reasonable price. Until then i will sit the 3d, 1.4abcd (1. Whatever) hdmi format war out and be content and enjoy the incredible hd system i already have which is bought and paid for.

I can wait 10 - 15 years for this whole 3d mess to finally shake out because i and multitudes of avs members are tired of being used as beta testers for an industry that continues to treat us like we are nothing but walking dollar signs that can be manipulated into throwing away our gear every 2-3 years for their latest fad. And yes, at this point 3d is just a fad.

In regard to replacing existing a/v gear simply in order to accommodate 3d:

Will i replace my pj within 5-10 years? Probably, if the improvement is substantially better than what i have now, which it isn't (much higher lumens, much sharper picture, led lit, etc..., otherwise what is the point?) and i do not have to mortgage my house to do it. But i refuse to be led around by the nose and manipulated into blowing out perfectly outstanding a/v gear and becoming their free 3d beta tester by the latest a/v 3d fad to come along.

One more thing; if anyone here on avs thinks they are going to even begin to have/reproduce the same 3d visual experience viewing avatar in your existing home theater that you had at the multi million dollar imax 3d theater in the near future or in the future without spending thousands, upon thousands of dollars, upgrading their equipment, there is a bridge in brookline i can sell you real cheap.

As i said above: Someone feel free to call me in 10 to 15 years when glassless 3d is fully developed and fully comes into it's own and those nasty "bugs" have been worked out and it is available at a reasonable price. Until then, have fun all you "early adopter, beta testing, guinea pigs". But before you take the 3d plunge, i would advise you to remember the lessons of the hd/bluray format war when many of you lost small and large fortunes after the powers that be decided that hd was worthless and they pulled their entire support for the format in behalf of bluray, after they had sold you all that stuff, leaving all of you suckers (in their eyes) holding the bag.

I can envision 3 to 8 years from now, the same thing taking place regarding 3d; many avs members sitting around, like they did with their hd equipment and software, with utter dismay on their faces and anger, realizing they have been pawned once again looking at all of their formerly new and improved, latest 3d technology equipment, and glasses that have suddenly been declared outdated and relegated to the dust bin by the electronics corporations who are ready to sell you on their latest fad.

They will have draws upon draws full of different kinds of 3d glasses: Polarized, shutter, red, green, etc because there will not be just one way the electronics powers that be will decide upon for you to watch 3d why? all the better to sell you stuff my dear. there will be low end 3d glasses for the masses and then there will be high end, scam videophile 3d glasses that will cost you a fortune this is already taking place with some 3d super glasses being marketed at $300! (oh, joy, think monster cables only for 3d glasses!). Most of this stuff purchased with your hard-earned money will end up in land fills or being blown out on craigslist for pennies on the dollar because they will say: "those things are useless and no longer needed because this is the new and improved way we are going to do 3d from now on."

as for me, and others here on avs who have seen this script/scam/game before; no thanks, we will sit this 3d fad out (like many of us wisely did during the hd/bluray format mess.) and when the war is all over (contrary to popular opinion, there will be a 3d war which system shutter glasses/non shutter glasses/polarized/non polarized etc, because their are billions of dollars at stake.) and things finally shake out, then and only then will we bite the bullet and upgrade our a/v equipment to accommodate 3d.

After posting the above on another web site i received the following, confirming what i have said:

i've got 30 years behind me in the ce business, have written for a trade magazine for 7 years, and am what one would describe as an early adopter. I couldn't agree with you more. New tech is embraced by the marketplace when one of two things happen:

1) consumers are forced into a change due to the retirement of an existing format, or:

2) there's a compelling case for the new format on its merits alone.

Neither is the case with 3dtv. It's cool to be sure, but no one but the manufacturers were clamoring for it. It's nothing but a profit recovery strategy at this point because virtually no one is making money on tv sets any more; making or selling them.

My guess is 3d will be most effective if used as a way for movie companies to keep people in the theatres, and i for one would stick to that. It would be a key differentiator between the theater and increasingly sophisticated home theater experience, a fact that will be increasingly more important as cinema ticket prices increase at the same time very big screen home theater hits true mass market price levels.

+1

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post #70 of 75 Old 02-27-2010, 09:48 PM
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I don't understand why everyone makes this such a black-and-white issue. If you buy a 3D setup you can still watch everything in 2D if you so choose. But if something comes along that you really would like to see in 3D, you have the option. Just like today when you buy a Blu-ray player, you can still choose to watch SD DVDs.

Obviously in the next couple of years it will be more expensive to buy a full 3D system, but by 2012 I doubt that the price will be much more than a comparable 2D setup. In fact, I think it will be difficult to get new 2D-only products from "mainstream" manufacturers (Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, etc) by 2012. Virtually everything will be "3D-ready" at minimum.

I've been holding off upgrading my rear-projection TV and audio receiver for a couple of years because I have been waiting for 3D. Looks like I only have to wait another year or so!

For those who think this wave of 3D is only because of Avatar, here's a link to a TIME mag article from 2006 which mentions George Lucas planning to rerelease SW films in 3D:
http://www.time.com/time/arts/articl...173216,00.html

So the momentum has been building for quite some time.
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post #71 of 75 Old 02-27-2010, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xzener View Post

Whats wrong with the HDTV and Projector I have now?? Why do I have to go out and buy another??

Why not a firmware update?? We're at a time now that this is completely feasible. My bluray player (recently sold cause my HTPC is just as good) was hooked up to my network and received firmware updates regularly.

That was one of the reasons I sold it, every time I put in a bluray to watch (wasn't very frequent) I'd get a darn firmware update notification.... I hated that.

Give me a firmware update for the projector I just bought, or no 3D for me.

Oh, not to mention, dont you need special glasses too?? Thats another $150 for one set.

No thanks.

**EDIT** Avatar was awesome!! Watched it twice now, 2D and 3D. Didn't matter, 3D was very cool though. Much better than the old red/blue 3D crap.

What is wrong with the equipment you already have? ..... NOTHING, and that is the problem. There is no reason for everyone to dump the exceptional 1080p, 1.3aHDMI high def equipment we just got through buying because they told us it was the gold standard for enjoying high-def. Now... all bets are off because they need a new revenue stream.

Why not? ... WHY NOT? The reason why not is simple = the electronics manufacturers refuse to do upgrade via firmware or to work with the great 2D equipment we already own because =

there is NO MONEY IN IT FOR T H E M!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They think we are all STUPID and nothing but walking dollar signs, that we are made of money and have nothing better to do than to throw away all of the brand new/nearly new high-def equipment that they just got through selling us all over the last few years so we can go out and buy it all over again so that we can make them richer than they already are. Come on, you know the Carney bark = "You gotta get rid of all of your existing high def equipment and buy into 3D because it is 'new and improved' and '3D ready'." We have heard this song and dance over and over agian... think of all of the failed fad A/V formats they fooled people into buying in the past... the landfills are full of them.

At this point 3D is nothing but a fad and scam to sucker schlubs into parting with what little green they have left in their pockets before the world wide recession/depression kicks into high gear.... they need another score so that they can retire in style while Rome burns.

Your solution is reasonable and that was the promise they made to us = "buy this equipment, it is future proof because it is completely upgradeable via firmware updates." The only problem is they refuse to stand behind the bill of goods they sold us and to follow through with those upgrades, and now they all want to pull the plug on 3D firmware updates/improvements and want us to throw all of our new high def equipment away and buy it all over again because if we don't... well then, you and I are nothing but second class A/V Neanderthals who fail to recognize the end all and be all that is... 3D.

When all is said and done, this time around we know their song and dance routine, we have a choice... we can act like lemmings, throw away the millions upon millions of dollars worth of new high-def equipment we just bought (blow it out on AVS classifieds or Craigslist for pennies on the dollar) and all jump off the 3D cliff or we can take a stand for once with our hard earned cash and tell them by our actions: "We won't be fooled again; enough, is enough, if you want us to jump on the 3D bandwagon then upgrade us via firmware and create a 3D format that WORKS WITH THE EXCEPTIONAL EQUIPMENT YOU JUST SOLD US!" This time we are not going to blindly jump to their "new and improved 3D" tune by not buying into the 3D fad/hype.

If enough A/V enthusiasts hold their feet to the fire this time around by not throwing their money down the rat hole then every one will win = a 3D format that takes advantage of existing 1080p 1.3HDMI equipment will come into existence. Existing equipment will be upgraded to 3D to satisfy existing customers (for all of the nay sayers that claim "it can't be done" the answer is simple = it CAN be done if they have the will to do it! If we can put a man on the moon using a 64k computer then they can do this.) and new equipment will be 3D ready from the get go. Everyone is happy, existing customers win, new customers win, and the manufacturers still make boatloads of money.
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post #72 of 75 Old 02-28-2010, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmouse007 View Post

What is wrong with the equipment you already have? ..... NOTHING, and that is the problem. There is no reason for everyone to dump the exceptional 1080p, 1.3aHDMI high def equipment we just got through buying because they told us it was the gold standard for enjoying high-def. Now... all bets are off because they need a new revenue stream.

Why not? ... WHY NOT? The reason why not is simple = the electronics manufacturers refuse to do upgrade via firmware or to work with the great 2D equipment we already own because =

there is NO MONEY IN IT FOR T H E M!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They think we are all STUPID and nothing but walking dollar signs, that we are made of money and have nothing better to do than to throw away all of the brand new/nearly new high-def equipment that they just got through selling us all over the last few years so we can go out and buy it all over again so that we can make them richer than they already are. Come on, you know the Carney bark = "You gotta get rid of all of your existing high def equipment and buy into 3D because it is 'new and improved' and '3D ready'." We have heard this song and dance over and over agian... think of all of the failed fad A/V formats they fooled people into buying in the past... the landfills are full of them.

At this point 3D is nothing but a fad and scam to sucker schlubs into parting with what little green they have left in their pockets before the world wide recession/depression kicks into high gear.... they need another score so that they can retire in style while Rome burns.

Your solution is reasonable and that was the promise they made to us = "buy this equipment, it is future proof because it is completely upgradeable via firmware updates." The only problem is they refuse to stand behind the bill of goods they sold us and to follow through with those upgrades, and now they all want to pull the plug on 3D firmware updates/improvements and want us to throw all of our new high def equipment away and buy it all over again because if we don't... well then, you and I are nothing but second class A/V Neanderthals who fail to recognize the end all and be all that is... 3D.

When all is said and done, this time around we know their song and dance routine, we have a choice... we can act like lemmings, throw away the millions upon millions of dollars worth of new high-def equipment we just bought (blow it out on AVS classifieds or Craigslist for pennies on the dollar) and all jump off the 3D cliff or we can take a stand for once with our hard earned cash and tell them by our actions: "We won't be fooled again; enough, is enough, if you want us to jump on the 3D bandwagon then upgrade us via firmware and create a 3D format that WORKS WITH THE EXCEPTIONAL EQUIPMENT YOU JUST SOLD US!" This time we are not going to blindly jump to their "new and improved 3D" tune by not buying into the 3D fad/hype.

If enough A/V enthusiasts hold their feet to the fire this time around by not throwing their money down the rat hole then every one will win = a 3D format that takes advantage of existing 1080p 1.3HDMI equipment will come into existence. Existing equipment will be upgraded to 3D to satisfy existing customers (for all of the nay sayers that claim "it can't be done" the answer is simple = it CAN be done if they have the will to do it! If we can put a man on the moon using a 64k computer then they can do this.) and new equipment will be 3D ready from the get go. Everyone is happy, existing customers win, new customers win, and the manufacturers still make boatloads of money.

No one is asking you to upgrade your equipment. You don't have to give the manufacturers another dime. But you're really naive if you think that people have all of the TVs and receivers and Blu-ray players that would ever be sold. There were going to be many TVs sold this year whether 3D existed or not. Some people might be buying into HD for the first time, and some people that have 720p sets might be upgrading to 1080p. The 3D is just a bonus that comes with the top of the line sets. Are you telling me not to get a Panasonic VT25 because it does 3D? That's ludicrous. It's transparent that because you're not in the market for a new TV now that you don't want anyone to have a feature that you don't have. And what will really infuriate you is when people not just on this forum are touting how great their 3D TV is. And you actually believed someone that said that something you are buying is "futureproof." Everyone here knows there's no such thing. I have a Fujitsu plasma that I got 10 years ago that still looks great, but it doesn't even have HDMI. Standards are always going to change. Enjoy what you have as long as you want, but if the envy is too much for you, then buy a new TV. I was going to be buying this year anyway, and I am very much looking forward to getting a great TV that is 3D capable.
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post #73 of 75 Old 02-28-2010, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbrennem View Post

I don't understand why everyone makes this such a black-and-white issue. If you buy a 3D setup you can still watch everything in 2D if you so choose. But if something comes along that you really would like to see in 3D, you have the option. Just like today when you buy a Blu-ray player, you can still choose to watch SD DVDs.

Obviously in the next couple of years it will be more expensive to buy a full 3D system, but by 2012 I doubt that the price will be much more than a comparable 2D setup. In fact, I think it will be difficult to get new 2D-only products from "mainstream" manufacturers (Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, etc) by 2012. Virtually everything will be "3D-ready" at minimum.

I've been holding off upgrading my rear-projection TV and audio receiver for a couple of years because I have been waiting for 3D. Looks like I only have to wait another year or so!


For those who think this wave of 3D is only because of Avatar, here's a link to a TIME mag article from 2006 which mentions George Lucas planning to rerelease SW films in 3D:
http://www.time.com/time/arts/articl...173216,00.html

So the momentum has been building for quite some time.

Not that long, they are starting to show up as pre-orders and by summer will be in stores if not sooner. I like 3D very much and it has nothing to do with Avatar. I've seen quite a few 3D movies in the last two years and am very impressed. Also the 3D TV demos at Fry's and now at Sonystyle stores (And coming to BB March 21st) are also impressive. The video game clips are fantastic. Even if I didn't like 3D, I wouldn't rant against it as if someone was forcing me to partake of it. That's the part I don't get from some folks here who (from reading these post) seem to have a religious hatred for 3D.
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post #74 of 75 Old 02-28-2010, 03:02 PM
 
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Looking forward to having 3D in my home early next year - March time frame.

I have been in love with 3D ever since I saw my first IMAX 3D film years ago and they will make GREAT 3D content for the home.
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post #75 of 75 Old 02-28-2010, 05:25 PM
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I'm with Lee, 3D in my house late this year or early next year. As a senior citizen, I could care less what technology comes along in 20 years as I won't be around to enjoy it. I'm opting in early on this one.
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