The Official HDMI 1.4 Receiver Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 270 Old 04-01-2010, 03:17 AM
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I would like to find out more about the Pioneer 820 receiver thats coming out in April.

1) My Samsung TV supports 1080p/24. Can I still get this when I have HDMI running from Blu-ray to receiver and receiver to TV?

2) Will my picture degrade slightly from the HDMI going into and out of the receiver? I understand it that some receivers do an excellent job at passing through the signal, but other receivers are mediocre at this at best.

3) Dumb question and one I should already know... I still have an HD DVD player. I can't remember if it accepts 1.3 HDMI or only 1.2 HDMI. Would it be ok if I used 1.3? My HD DVD player is a Toshiba HD-A20.
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post #92 of 270 Old 04-01-2010, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Matt View Post

I would like to find out more about the Pioneer 820 receiver thats coming out in April.

1) My Samsung TV supports 1080p/24. Can I still get this when I have HDMI running from Blu-ray to receiver and receiver to TV?

2) Will my picture degrade slightly from the HDMI going into and out of the receiver? I understand it that some receivers do an excellent job at passing through the signal, but other receivers are mediocre at this at best.

3) Dumb question and one I should already know... I still have an HD DVD player. I can't remember if it accepts 1.3 HDMI or only 1.2 HDMI. Would it be ok if I used 1.3? My HD DVD player is a Toshiba HD-A20.

http://www.hdmi.org/press/press_release.aspx?prid=120
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Implementing the mandatory formats of the HDMI Specification facilitates interoperability among devices, allowing devices to speak a common 3D language when transmitting and receiving 3D content. The mandatory requirements for devices implementing 3D formats are:

Displays - must support all mandatory formats.
Sources - must support at least one mandatory format.
Repeaters - must be able to pass through all mandatory formats.

1. yes
2. no
3. HDMI is fully backwards compatable so you have no worries about using it.

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post #93 of 270 Old 04-01-2010, 04:58 PM
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The 308, 508 and the 608 are shipping with HDMI 1.4a. All other AVRs and HTiBs that Onkyo will roll out this year will also feature HDMI 1.4a.

Hopefully, this isn't an April Fool's Day joke.

http://www.twice.com/article/450956-..._HDMI_1_4a.php
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post #94 of 270 Old 04-02-2010, 06:47 AM
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Is there an HDMI 1.4 receiver that with HD Radio Integrated (and of course all the DD TrueHD and DTS-HDMA) on the horizon? I know that I can buy a HD Radio module, but I would rather have it all in one.

Denon is probably going to make one, but they are out of my price range. I am hoping for $500 or less.


Thanks in advance
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post #95 of 270 Old 04-02-2010, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkhunter View Post

The 308, 508 and the 608 are shipping with HDMI 1.4a. All other AVRs and HTiBs that Onkyo will roll out this year will also feature HDMI 1.4a.

Hopefully, this isn't an April Fool's Day joke.

http://www.twice.com/article/450956-..._HDMI_1_4a.php

This was announced at CES and you can view the receivers and specs on the Onkyo website.

I'm pissed because there is no 708. I got the 707 is January since my 606 died (HDMI stopped functioning) and am not willing to downgrade or pay for more features other than 3D support. Most likely I will get a splitter to allow my 707 to still function since there is no 3D replacement for it.
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post #96 of 270 Old 04-02-2010, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHDTV? View Post

Is there an HDMI 1.4 receiver that with HD Radio ... ?

I haven't seen any mention of one. Aside from future Denon receivers, maybe Yamaha?

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post #97 of 270 Old 04-02-2010, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee View Post

I haven't seen any mention of one. Aside from future Denon receivers, maybe Yamaha?

That makes sense: The existing 2065, 1900, 3900 models all have HDRadio -- and are all likely to be replaced later this year with HDMI 1.4 equipped models...

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post #98 of 270 Old 04-03-2010, 04:16 PM
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I posted my question to other sections and the receiver forum seems to have come through.

This is an annouced Denon and looks like I can strech my budget to get it. I do wish that it had higher watts per channel, but I think it will work for me.

http://www.avland.co.uk/aasp/denon/1...11/avr1911.asp
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post #99 of 270 Old 04-05-2010, 05:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

I wish you good fortune in selling your 607.

Based on what I have seen in 1.4 receivers, and my experience (bad) on my last purchase of a receiver, I have become much more savy as to what I believe will be a good deal for me.

I don't want to pay for things I have no use for. I want something that is tailored for me. And so far, I have my eye on one of the new Pioneer 1.4 receivers. The $300 one that only has 5.1, which is all I want or need. Does HD audio from BD, has enough HDMI inputs and will handle 3D video. That's it. Whether it's got 70 watts a channel or 100. Makes no difference to me. I have never played an audio system I owned at max volume.


There is a little more too it than that
A higher end receiver will sound better at lower volumes also. Things like a more robust power supply, a better amplifier section and better sound processing DAC's make it sound better at any volume
On the video side they typically have better video pass through processing also

I do agree with you not to get caught in posted wattage...as the manufacturers play games and sometimes post the ratings based on just 1-2 channels being driven at the same time
You can take a look at most AV mags and they will list the true wattage with all channels driven
If you don't have to have the product as soon as it rolls into the market place...give it 6 months too a year and you can many times buy products that were high end for much lower cost...or buy a factory refurb etc
For example I bought a factory refurbished Onkyo 875( HDMI 1.3) for $599 a year ago. It was $1700( retail) two years ago. Other than the box saying "factory refurbished" on the outside, the unit looked brand new
It came with a 1 year warranty ..not the standard 2 year that was offered when the units were new..I did purchase the extended 5 year one


Warren

Rm 1 Samsung 64F8500 Onkyo 5508 prepro Sherbourn 5/1500A amp Atlantic technology System 350 THX Ultra speakers
Rm 2 LG 47LE8500 Pioneer SC37 Celestion 305 speaker system
Rm 3 Samsung 51E8000 Yamaha A2010 Kef 2005.2 speaker system
Rm 4 Panasonic 50ST50 Onkyo 5009/906 Mirage Omni sat speaker system
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post #100 of 270 Old 04-05-2010, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

Things like a more robust power supply, a better amplifier section and better sound processing DAC's make it sound better at any volume

Without listening tests to back up these opinions, I see no good reason to believe any of them.

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post #101 of 270 Old 04-05-2010, 06:33 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Yamaha AVRs, HTiBs Getting HDMI 1.4

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Buena Park, Calif. - Yamaha launched its first five home theater in a box (HTiB) receiver/speaker packages and first three A/V receivers (AVRs) with HDMI 1.4 inputs and outputs, but they'll need a firmware upgrade to support 3D video, the company said.

With the firmware upgrade, all will support the Side-by-Side (Half) and Top-and-Bottom formats that broadcasters are adopting as well as the formats used for current 3D Blu-ray content, the company added.

Quote:


In AVRs, the $249-suggested RV-V367, $379-suggested RV-V467 and $479 RX-V567 are the company's first AVRs with HDMI 1.4, all capable of supporting 3D video passthrough with a planned firmware upgrade. The top two models also feature HDMI 1.4's audio return channel function out of the box.

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The $249 AVR is rated at 5x100 watts. The $379 model, rated at 5x105 watts, adds decoding of all Blu-ray surround formats, audio return channel, YPAO, HDMI CEC and front-panel display of iPod/iPhone song titles. The $479 model starts the 7-channel AVR lineup, as it did last year, and adds 7x90-watt amp and onscreen display

http://www.twice.com/article/450979-...g_HDMI_1_4.php
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post #102 of 270 Old 04-05-2010, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee View Post

Without listening tests to back up these opinions, I see no good reason to believe any of them.

agreed
Thats why when some one questions the price differences of receivers....say why does Pioneer have a 1019 for $499 and an SC27 for $2000...and they are are within 10 watts of each other
Listen to them both....even if you don't know the technical differences...your ears will tell you there is a huge difference

You can also pick the two up and notice that the SC27 weighs about 3x at much as the 1019

I use these two for examples...you can do the same with any set of receivers among the same brand...they all have low..mid and high end


Warren

Rm 1 Samsung 64F8500 Onkyo 5508 prepro Sherbourn 5/1500A amp Atlantic technology System 350 THX Ultra speakers
Rm 2 LG 47LE8500 Pioneer SC37 Celestion 305 speaker system
Rm 3 Samsung 51E8000 Yamaha A2010 Kef 2005.2 speaker system
Rm 4 Panasonic 50ST50 Onkyo 5009/906 Mirage Omni sat speaker system
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post #103 of 270 Old 04-07-2010, 09:10 AM
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I don't understand why we need new audio receivers for hdmi 1.4. All that has changed is some new mandatory 3d modes, audio transport is still identical.

So if I send a 3d framepacked signal via HDMI as per 1.4 specifications, why shouldn't my HDMI 1.3 reciever decode and play the audio and pass through the video? Why should an audio receiver need to understand and process the video, if it's not being asked to do any video processing.

I find all this HDMI version stuff really tiresome when it comes to audio receivers since IMHO an audio receiver shouldn't concern itself with the video signal.
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post #104 of 270 Old 04-07-2010, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by obveron View Post

I don't understand why we need new audio receivers for hdmi 1.4. All that has changed is some new mandatory 3d modes, audio transport is still identical.

So if I send a 3d framepacked signal via HDMI as per 1.4 specifications, why shouldn't my HDMI 1.3 reciever decode and play the audio and pass through the video? Why should an audio receiver need to understand and process the video, if it's not being asked to do any video processing.

I find all this HDMI version stuff really tiresome when it comes to audio receivers since IMHO an audio receiver shouldn't concern itself with the video signal.

Because the creators of HDMI are stupid lol.
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post #105 of 270 Old 04-07-2010, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obveron View Post

I don't understand why we need new audio receivers for hdmi 1.4. All that has changed is some new mandatory 3d modes, audio transport is still identical.

So if I send a 3d framepacked signal via HDMI as per 1.4 specifications, why shouldn't my HDMI 1.3 reciever decode and play the audio and pass through the video? Why should an audio receiver need to understand and process the video, if it's not being asked to do any video processing.

I find all this HDMI version stuff really tiresome when it comes to audio receivers since IMHO an audio receiver shouldn't concern itself with the video signal.



who said you needed to update an audio receiver? the receiver SHOULD be able to ignore the extra 3d bits of hdmi 1.4a not to mention manufacturers don't have to support every feature of 1.4 to say it's a 1.4 device. So lots of old devices can technically be updated to 1.4 via software. and i believe (i could be wrong) that you can do 3d on 1.3a devices just not 1080p 3d.

but also there is an audio component to 1.4a. There's that audio return channel right? don't think it's that great of a feature but w/e
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post #106 of 270 Old 04-07-2010, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadicalxEdward View Post

who said you needed to update an audio receiver? the receiver SHOULD be able to ignore the extra 3d bits of hdmi 1.4a not to mention manufacturers don't have to support every feature of 1.4 to say it's a 1.4 device. So lots of old devices can technically be updated to 1.4 via software. and i believe (i could be wrong) that you can do 3d on 1.3a devices just not 1080p 3d.

but also there is an audio component to 1.4a. There's that audio return channel right? don't think it's that great of a feature but w/e

Can older HDMI (v.1.0 - 1.3) devices be firmware-upgraded to take advantage of the new features introduced in HDMI 1.4?

Quote:


Probably not. Most of the new features introduced in HDMI 1.4 will require a new HDMI chip to enable, and cannot be upgraded via firmware.

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdm...1_4_faq.aspx#7

Also:

http://hdguru.com/3d-hdtv-and-hdmi-explained/1336/
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post #107 of 270 Old 04-07-2010, 09:41 AM
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here's an article from hidef digest about 1.3c supporting 3d:
link
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post #108 of 270 Old 04-07-2010, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Can older HDMI (v.1.0 - 1.3) devices be firmware-upgraded to take advantage of the new features introduced in HDMI 1.4?



http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdm...1_4_faq.aspx#7

that's my point "most of the new features" stuff like the ps3 and things like that are being software upgraded to 1.4 because they don't have to support the physical stuff (ethernet channel, audio return, etc) to say that they are 1.4


Update:
The HD Guru article is interesting. Looks like even the top dogs don't know whats going on half the time. So this means 1.3c can't even do 1080i 3d??
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post #109 of 270 Old 04-07-2010, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadicalxEdward View Post

here's an article from hidef digest about 1.3c supporting 3d:
link

That article as it pertains to BD SAL players being upgradeable is BS.

The only truth to it is when you click on the Source article and read about CBL and SAT STBs because they don't deal with 1920x1080x24p frame packed 3D video. They are using SbS and O/U which are Half HD per eye as opposed to 3D BDs Full HD per eye. CBL and SAT are fitting 3D video into the same bandwith they normally use for an HD (1080i) signal.
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post #110 of 270 Old 04-07-2010, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

That article as it pertains to BD SAL players being upgradeable is BS.

The only truth to it is when you click on the Source article and read about CBL and SAT STBs because they don't deal with 1920x1080x24p frame packed 3D video. They are using SbS and O/U which are Half HD per eye as opposed to 3D BDs Full HD per eye. CBL and SAT are fitting 3D video into the same bandwith they normally use for an HD (1080i) signal.

Hmm, but i guess a receiver wouldn't know to downgrade it from the way BD handles it in order to fit it over 1.3c?

It's a bummer either way. I just bought a refurb pioneer SC-25 which won't support 1.4 :-( luckily i'm not planning on buying a 3d tv until they are in the $700-$800 range for a 42" set and don't require stupid glasses. active or passive, having to wear extra glasses just to watch tv is stupid. especially when you already wear glasses.
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post #111 of 270 Old 04-07-2010, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadicalxEdward View Post

that's my point "most of the new features" stuff like the ps3 and things like that are being software upgraded to 1.4 because they don't have to support the physical stuff (ethernet channel, audio return, etc) to say that they are 1.4

Yes - only the PS3 can be upgraded to 3D BD specs due to the fact that it is a software based BD player while all other BD players are hardware based.

Quote:


Update:
The HD Guru article is interesting. Looks like even the top dogs don't know whats going on half the time. So this means 1.3c can't even do 1080i 3d??

1.3 can be used for CBL and SAT. Whether that signal can be passed through a 1.3 receiver is still unknown. Today, The Masters in 3D from CBL will start (3PM EST) so I am hoping that some of the reviewers of equip. will try it out to see what happens.

3D BD is different from 3D CBL and SAT.
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post #112 of 270 Old 04-07-2010, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Yes - only the PS3 can be upgraded to 3D BD specs due to the fact that it is a software based BD player while all other BD players are hardware based.



1.3 can be used for CBL and SAT. Whether that signal can be passed through a 1.3 receiver is still unknown. Today, The Masters in 3D from CBL will start (3PM EST) so I am hoping that some of the reviewers of equip. will try it out to see what happens.

3D BD is different from 3D CBL and SAT.

Ah ok. That makes sense. I appreciate you explaining all this without becoming a troll like a lot of other people in these forums.

In your opinion is 3D even worth the hassle and price at this point? I saw avatar in 3d and i'd like it a lot better in standard HD. 3D didn't seem to add anything to the experience and it was kind of annoying.

(and i had to pat myself on the back for being a home theater noob and actually understanding your post about the link i posted)
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post #113 of 270 Old 04-07-2010, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by RadicalxEdward View Post

Ah ok. That makes sense. I appreciate you explaining all this without becoming a troll like a lot of other people in these forums.

My pleasure.

Quote:


In your opinion is 3D even worth the hassle and price at this point? I saw avatar in 3d and i'd like it a lot better in standard HD. 3D didn't seem to add anything to the experience and it was kind of annoying.

That is a subjective question. Each person has to answer it as it fits their own desire and wallet. Some (like me) will jump in early, while others will wait and still others will pass altogether. I have always been a fan of 3D and the ability to have it in my own home in S3D quality is a dream come true. Others may not feel the same way.

Quote:


(and i had to pat myself on the back for being a home theater noob and actually understanding your post about the link i posted)

It can easily be confusing because there is so much that hasn't been published about 3D.
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post #114 of 270 Old 04-07-2010, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

It can easily be confusing because there is so much that hasn't been published about 3D.

It's funny how long regular sd color tv held in there compared to the huge push to HD with 3D following up right behind it. and as soon as they get everyone to buy new 3d gear they're gonna say, oh wait, now you can buy 4k gear. and then they're gonna push 4k3D. lol maybe i should just wait 10 years to buy a tv lol. it'll be interesting to see what comes after that though.
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post #115 of 270 Old 04-07-2010, 10:28 AM
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I fully understand why we need this new HDMI spec for 3d. I'm would of liked to see 1080p60 framepacking (for gaming), but oh well, perhaps they'll add that in 1.5 or 1.4b or something.
I do understand for those that want the full resolution 3d, why they would need a HDMI 1.4 source, and of course a HDMI 1.4 3d ready display.

What I don't understand, is why the audio receiver needs to be 1.4. Can't it simply pass through the video (frame packed), without it recognizing and understanding that it's framepacked?. All one wants the receiver to do is decode and play the audio.

Are we going to need new AUDIO receivers everytime we want to use a new VIDEO format in a new HDMI spec?
Why should a receiver care about the video? If it sees LPCM or bitstream audio it understands, it should play it. It shouldn't care if the video is from another galaxy, it should pass it through and forget about it.
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post #116 of 270 Old 04-07-2010, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obveron View Post

I fully understand why we need this new HDMI spec for 3d. I'm would of liked to see 1080p60 framepacking (for gaming), but oh well, perhaps they'll add that in 1.5 or 1.4b or something.
I do understand for those that want the full resolution 3d, why they would need a HDMI 1.4 source, and of course a HDMI 1.4 3d ready display.

What I don't understand, is why the audio receiver needs to be 1.4. Can't it simply pass through the video (frame packed), without it recognizing and understanding that it's framepacked?. All one wants the receiver to do is decode and play the audio.

Are we going to need new AUDIO receivers everytime we want to use a new VIDEO format in a new HDMI spec?
Why should a receiver care about the video? If it sees LPCM or bitstream audio it understands, it should play it. It shouldn't care if the video is from another galaxy, it should pass it through and forget about it.

well considering how confusing the info for avr's is at the moment i can't imagine it's any clearer for ar's. Maybe you'll have to take a wait and see approach.
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post #117 of 270 Old 04-07-2010, 10:53 AM
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well its tough to get just an AR these days, especially one with full support for all HD audio formats.. pretty much everything is a AVR.
but how many people really want video processing, upscaling, etc?

it should decode and play the audio, and perhaps offer very basic video switching (as in a dumb passive switch, no analyzing the video, just switch the conductors).

it seems to me that the dudes who designed HDMI made it necessarry for the receivers to strip down every component of the HDMI signal, extract the audio stream and play it, then rebuild the hdmi signal from scratch, and output.
obviously to do this, the receiver will need to recognize every type of signal in order to break it down and rebuild it. which means new audio receivers, everytime a new video format is added to the HDMI spec.

but i just don't get why they designed it this way. if we get a new audio format in a hdmi spec, and you want to use it, you would need a new receiver, and that's fair. but if we get a new video format in a hdmi spec, and you want to use it, you need a new receiver too?! the guys who invented HDMI really fracked us all over on that one.
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post #118 of 270 Old 04-07-2010, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obveron View Post

well its tough to get just an AR these days, especially one with full support for all HD audio formats.. pretty much everything is a AVR.
but how many people really want video processing, upscaling, etc?

it should decode and play the audio, and perhaps offer very basic video switching (as in a dumb passive switch, no analyzing the video, just switch the conductors).

it seems to me that the dudes who designed HDMI made it necessarry for the receivers to strip down every component of the HDMI signal, extract the audio stream and play it, then rebuild the hdmi signal from scratch, and output.
obviously to do this, the receiver will need to recognize every type of signal in order to break it down and rebuild it. which means new audio receivers, everytime a new video format is added to the HDMI spec.

but i just don't get why they designed it this way. if we get a new audio format in a hdmi spec, and you want to use it, you would need a new receiver, and that's fair. but if you get a new video format, and you want to use it, you need a new receiver too?! the guys who invented HDMI really fracked us all over on that one.

well considering the companies who developed HDMI are all big electronics companies i'm sure they'd love for you to have to buy a new receiver every time they update the spec.

Were you expecting them to act in the consumers best interest? lol

Quote:


HDMI Founders
Hitachi, Ltd.
Panasonic Corporation
Philips Consumer Electronics International B.V.
Silicon Image, Inc.
Sony Corporation
Thomson, Inc.
Toshiba Corporation

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post #119 of 270 Old 04-07-2010, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Intel Provides Sneak Peek On Future Tech

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Among the first devices expected to work their way into the consumer electronics space is Light Peak. Light Peak is an optical-based input/output interface first introduced last year at Intel's developer's forum and shown again at International CES by Intel CEO Paul Otellini. It is designed to replace USB, HDMI and a host of other connectivity technologies, said Jeff Demain, an Intel Labs researcher.

http://www.twice.com/article/451185-...uture_Tech.php

OK - so which emoticon should I use . . .

.................. ................ ..................
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post #120 of 270 Old 04-07-2010, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by obveron View Post

I don't understand why we need new audio receivers for hdmi 1.4.

I have heard a few different explanations about why current AV receivers can't transport 3D video but the best explanation I have heard was this one. Also the CEA organization is still working on 3D signaling and is thinking of using the HDMI 3D signaling implementation as the standard for CEA based connections (which includes DVI, HDMI, and DisplayPort).


Quote:
Originally Posted by obveron View Post

I fully understand why we need this new HDMI spec for 3d. I'm would of liked to see 1080p60 framepacking (for gaming), but oh well, perhaps they'll add that in 1.5 or 1.4b or something.

1080p60 per eye video is listed in the HDMI 1.4a 3D specs but it requires a bandwidth of 297 MHz. The fastest HDMI 1.4a chips I have seen are limited to 225 MHz and that is likely the maximum bandwidth supported by the current generation of HDMI 1.4a products. M code has mentioned that AV receivers with higher bandwidth HDMI 1.4a chips will be seen in AV receivers late this year.
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