The Official HDMI 1.4 Receiver Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 270 Old 05-03-2010, 04:45 PM
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I read that article to mean that HK now has 3 models that allready have HDMI 1.4 chips in them but they currently only have firmware in them to implement HDMI1.3 functinality and that they will supply a firmware upgrade to meet the full HDMI 1.4a specs.
Or they have HDMI 1.3 chips in them which are controlled by firmware an not hardware and therefore they can upgrade the firmware so that the 3 models can output all of the HDMI 1.4a 3D formats.
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post #182 of 270 Old 05-05-2010, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

I read that article to mean that HK now has 3 models that allready have HDMI 1.4 chips in them but they currently only have firmware in them to implement HDMI1.3 functinality and that they will supply a firmware upgrade to meet the full HDMI 1.4a specs.

Two of the three Harman Kardon AV receivers that will receive a software upgrade to HDMI 1.4a were released last September so it is almost certain that they used HDMI 1.3 chips.


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Originally Posted by walford View Post

Or they have HDMI 1.3 chips in them which are controlled by firmware an not hardware and therefore they can upgrade the firmware so that the 3 models can output all of the HDMI 1.4a 3D formats.

Was there something about those AV receivers that made them easier to upgrade than other AV receivers? Maybe, but the fact that it can be done at all tells us that HDMI 1.3 chips aren't the limiting factor when it comes to upgrading a AV receiver to support 3D video.
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post #183 of 270 Old 05-05-2010, 04:04 PM
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HDMI 1.4a specs are software buffer specifications so if a receiver made last fall had a HDMI 1.4 chip and could have it's handling of video content modified with firmware then it could upgrade to meet the all of the HDMI 1.4 and 1,4a 3D specifications.
The 1.4 specs were released almost a year ago so the boxes could have 1.4 chips.

http://www.hdmi.org/press/press_release.aspx?prid=101
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post #184 of 270 Old 05-05-2010, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

The 1.4 specs were released almost a year ago so the boxes could have 1.4 chips.

http://www.hdmi.org/press/press_release.aspx?prid=101

Do you think that Harman Kardon used HDMI 1.4 chips in those AV receivers but decided not to advertise that fact? To me that doesn't seem logical and if Harman Kardon had gone through all of the trouble to get HDMI 1.4 chips (that would have had to be sampled, tested, and mass produced in time to have them in AV receivers only 4 months after the HDMI 1.4 specs were released) I think they would have shouted it from the rooftops or at least mentioned it in the specs for those AV receivers. Also I have seen no evidence that HDMI 1.4 chips were mass produced last year and Silicon Image estimated in June of 2009 that they would begin sampling HDMI 1.4 chips in the second half of 2009.
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post #185 of 270 Old 05-06-2010, 08:56 AM
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After re-reading the anounment I agree with you that the upgradable HK models must contain HDMI 1.3 transmitter chips which use firmware to control their output buffer formats. And this what will enable them to output 3D content using HDMI 1.4a 3D formats. However, this will not enable them to support other HDMI 1.4 functionality.
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post #186 of 270 Old 05-06-2010, 11:45 AM
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I checked the service manuals for those upgradeable HK models, and they use the good old Silicon Image 9135 receiver and 9134 transmitter. The same chips are in most brands of HDMI 1.3 AVR, and if HK can make them pass 3D frame packed formats the others can. I'm sure they are programmed by firmware in all cases, nothing is hardwired to specific video formats.

Unfortunately the chances are pretty slim that some (probably most) manufacturers will offer upgrades. I wouldn't mind paying a nominal amount (say $50 or perhaps more) for 3D, but not many manufacturers have a scheme in place to charge for new firmware (I know Denon do, and they've charged for feature upgrades in the past).
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post #187 of 270 Old 05-06-2010, 12:11 PM
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I disagree with your assumtion tha none ofl the AVRs using HDMI 1.3 chips do not also use standard ATSC video resolution chips from the merchant chip vendors since they can cost much less for to manufacture and test. And even if some of them do use general purpose processing chips and firmware to process HDMI 1.3 video content they may not have enough firmware space or memory available to process the HDMI 1.4 3D formats.
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post #188 of 270 Old 05-06-2010, 12:29 PM
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Agreed that if an older AVR can process HDMI video, it probably can't be upgraded to process 3D. But most models either can't process HDMI video at all, or they have a pass through mode (which is all I'm really interested in). My Yamaha RX-V1800 just has the 9134 and 9135 connected directly together. The setup menu can be sent to the 9134, but it switches to a lower resolution to do that and takes over the whole screen.

Assuming HK really delivers working firmware, it'll be interesting to see if others feel they have to follow suit. I'm not really expect Yamaha will, given their past record (but I know there's plenty of spare room in the flash memory of my 1800).
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post #189 of 270 Old 05-19-2010, 08:38 PM
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I'm looking for a HDMI 1.4 receiver for my home theater and require a receiver with 2 HDMI outputs. One to drive a projector, and the other an LCD display.

I have only been able to find HDMI 1.4 receivers with one HDMI output. Is a dual output receiver available yet?

I'd hate to have to purchase an older HDMI 1.3 receiver, only to have to replace it in the future when I upgrade the projector to a 3D capable model.
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post #190 of 270 Old 05-19-2010, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickhuizinga View Post

I'm looking for a HDMI 1.4 receiver for my home theater and require a receiver with 2 HDMI outputs. One to drive a projector, and the other an LCD display.

I have only been able to find HDMI 1.4 receivers with one HDMI output. Is a dual output receiver available yet?

I'd hate to have to purchase an older HDMI 1.3 receiver, only to have to replace it in the future when I upgrade the projector to a 3D capable model.

There will likely be higher end HDMI 1.4a AV receivers later this year with two HDMI outputs. If though you need to get an AV receiver soon have you considered getting a HDMI 1.4a AV receiver along with a HDMI 1.3 splitter? An HDMI 1.3 splitter can be found for under $40 on Monoprice and though you would have to eventually buy another HDMI splitter (since there are currently no HDMI 1.4a splitters) it would be a lot cheaper than replacing an AV receiver.
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post #191 of 270 Old 05-20-2010, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Agreed that if an older AVR can process HDMI video, it probably can't be upgraded to process 3D. But most models either can't process HDMI video at all, or they have a pass through mode (which is all I'm really interested in).

We're still not sure if older HDMI 1.3 receivers can lock on to the audio bitstream and pass through 3d video. Many are saying that if it doesn't recognize the video format, it won't decode the audio, even in pass through mode. We need someone to test it for us. If 1.3 hdmi pass through receivers can do the job, millions won't need to upgrade to enjoy 3d. For that simple reason, I think they've made it so we need to upgrade (more profits).
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post #192 of 270 Old 05-20-2010, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obveron View Post

We're still not sure if older HDMI 1.3 receivers can lock on to the audio bitstream and pass through 3d video.

The won't do it without a firmware update (this has now been verified in a few cases with a 3D Blu-ray player and display). But Harman Kardon's promise to upgrade some of their HDMI 1.3 models to support 3D shows that it is possible via an update.
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post #193 of 270 Old 05-20-2010, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickhuizinga View Post

I'm looking for a HDMI 1.4 receiver for my home theater and require a receiver with 2 HDMI outputs. One to drive a projector, and the other an LCD display.

I have only been able to find HDMI 1.4 receivers with one HDMI output. Is a dual output receiver available yet?

I'd hate to have to purchase an older HDMI 1.3 receiver, only to have to replace it in the future when I upgrade the projector to a 3D capable model.

The upcoming Denon 4311 will have dual HDMI output. I think it comes out around July/August.
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post #194 of 270 Old 05-21-2010, 08:48 AM
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@THE DU3C3: thanks. Denon is saying that the 4311 will be coming out in September, but my home theater is scheduled to be completed by the end of July. I'm hoping it comes out early or some other model by then.
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post #195 of 270 Old 06-07-2010, 09:48 AM
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Official thread regarding Sony's first HDMI 1.4-compatible A/V receiver is here. Appears to be shipping now.
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post #196 of 270 Old 06-07-2010, 10:50 AM
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Yamaha just released the promised firmware update that allows their new RX-V367/467/567 models to pass 3D. It can be downloaded from the Yamaha web site.

Edit: FWIW it seems (from the firmware) that these new Yamahas use the SiI9233A HDMI 1.4 receiver.
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post #197 of 270 Old 06-22-2010, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Anthem's 1st AVRs Offer 1.4, Internet And HD Radio

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New York - 3D-compatible HDMI 1.4 connections, Internet radio, HD Radio, and USB connections to hard drives and memory sticks are among the key features appearing in Anthem's inaugural A/V receiver (AVR) lineup.

http://www.twice.com/article/453973-...d_HD_Radio.php
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post #198 of 270 Old 06-22-2010, 09:00 AM
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Interesting
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post #199 of 270 Old 06-22-2010, 11:41 AM
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I had some lingering doubt that Pioneer's 2010 receivers really supported HDMI 1.4a. Now I see on the Pioneer product page for the vsx-1020-k: "HDMI® (V.1.4a with 3D) - 6 Inputs / 1 Output". Maybe the "1.4a" was there before, but if so I missed it, for all that I recall seeing previously is "1.4".

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post #200 of 270 Old 06-22-2010, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee View Post

I had some lingering doubt that Pioneer's 2010 receivers really supported HDMI 1.4a. Now I see on the Pioneer product page for the vsx-1020-k: "HDMI® (V.1.4a with 3D) - 6 Inputs / 1 Output". Maybe the "1.4a" was there before, but if so I missed it, for all that I recall seeing previously is "1.4".

All HDMI 3D products manufactured from this month on have to adhere to version 1.4a. The 3D of version 1.4 has been phased out officially, and the transition period has ended.
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post #201 of 270 Old 06-23-2010, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarabaeus View Post

All HDMI 3D products manufactured from this month on have to adhere to version 1.4a. The 3D of version 1.4 has been phased out officially, and the transition period has ended.

So, should I be worried if I just bought the Sony STR-DN1010 which lists 1.4 but not 1.4a compatibility? It lacks an Ethernet port so I can't imagine how any firmware upgrade would occur.
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post #202 of 270 Old 06-23-2010, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hpmoon View Post

So, should I be worried if I just bought the Sony STR-DN1010 which lists 1.4 but not 1.4a compatibility? It lacks an Ethernet port so I can't imagine how any firmware upgrade would occur.

Maybe. I don't know specifically about the Sony, but the early Samsung 3D TVs (sold before may or so) required a firmware update via USB stick to get from 1.4 to 1.4a support.

You should be able to tell by the EDID of your device. Most devices support more than just the mandatory formats, or at least also list the mandatory formats as explicitly supported formats. If your EDID contains any Top-and-Bottom formats, then your device definitely conforms to 1.4a, otherwise maybe not.
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post #203 of 270 Old 06-24-2010, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarabaeus View Post

Maybe. I don't know specifically about the Sony, but the early Samsung 3D TVs (sold before may or so) required a firmware update via USB stick to get from 1.4 to 1.4a support.

You should be able to tell by the EDID of your device. Most devices support more than just the mandatory formats, or at least also list the mandatory formats as explicitly supported formats. If your EDID contains any Top-and-Bottom formats, then your device definitely conforms to 1.4a, otherwise maybe not.

Of course, the sole issue with respect to AVRs is not whether they understand 1.4a, but rather whether they can pass through 1.4a. Big difference. I'd bet on the latter, but we won't know for sure until the broadcast content tries to pass through.
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post #204 of 270 Old 06-25-2010, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hpmoon View Post

Of course, the sole issue with respect to AVRs is not whether they understand 1.4a, but rather whether they can pass through 1.4a. Big difference. I'd bet on the latter, but we won't know for sure until the broadcast content tries to pass through.

For the frame compatible 3D modes, such as Top-and-Bottom and Side-by-Side, the video timing is still the same as for 2D, so the amp does not need to understand 3D timings, just pass it through. You are correct there.

But, for the frame packing formats used for Blu-ray 3D and playstation 3D gaming, the timings are new, so the amp actually needs to know them to be able to extract audio from the blanking areas.

Also, to pass through the 3D signaling (which currently only DirecTV does for broadcasting content), the amp, again, needs to know the 3D VSDBs and VSIs. For frame packing, the signaling is essential to make it work.
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post #205 of 270 Old 06-25-2010, 09:25 AM
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I thought that 3D content from DirecTV was going to be in either 1080i or 720p SbS 3D format. The World cup is in 1080i SbS.
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post #206 of 270 Old 06-25-2010, 10:17 AM
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Hopefully someone can straighten this out for me. I have a 1.3 receiver that I know can pass through 3d signals (I assume not frame packing but I have tested it with SBS, topbottom, checkerboard, etc). To avoid getting a new receiver I was hoping to hook things up like this:

Mitsubishi DLP > receiver > mitsubishi's 3d adapter > 1.4 HDMI switch > PS3, directv, xbox 360

I don't think there are any 1.4 switches available but I assume monoprice will soon have one for cheap. Is there any reason that this setup would not work? I know that the receiver can pass through a checkerboard signal that would come from the 3d adapter. My concern is all of this EDID business with the PS3 and directv. If my directv box and PS3 recognize the 3d adapter when plugged directly into it, would putting a 1.4 switch between them disrupt this? Perhaps I am asking this question too soon, patience is not one of my virtues.
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post #207 of 270 Old 06-25-2010, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

I thought that 3D content from DirecTV was going to be in either 1080i or 720p SbS 3D format. The World cup is in 1080i SbS.

Yes, that would work fine, but the DirecTV firmware requires a pass-through of the HDMI 1.4a 3D signalling through your AVR, or it will refuse to show the SbS 1080i signal. Who knows why they did that. If everything works, 3D is enabled automatically in your TV, but if not, then you don't even have the option to enable it manually in a menu of the TV.

Comcast and, reportedly, U-Verse do not even try this signalling for ESPN 3D, so you always have to enable it manually, even if you have complete HDMI 1.4a chain. From one extreme to another...
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post #208 of 270 Old 06-25-2010, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcterp View Post

Mitsubishi DLP > receiver > mitsubishi's 3d adapter > 1.4 HDMI switch > PS3, directv, xbox 360

Mits currently requires you to connect the converter between your amp and the TV, so it can detect the EDID. This means, your HDMI 1.3 receiver will block the 3D signalling to and from the source devices, and won't let the frame packing signal pass through.

Your proposed setup would otherwise be OK, probably. The converter will output 1080p checkerboard, and the receiver should be able to extract the audio from that. This, of course, only if the converter passes through the audio, which is not quite clear to me at this point.

So, you could try:
Mitsubishi DLP > receiver > EDID spoofer > mitsubishi's 3d adapter > 1.4 HDMI switch > PS3, directv, xbox 360

I think a more solid solution would be:
Mitsubishi DLP > mitsubishi's 3d adapter > 1.4a HDMI receiver > PS3, directv, xbox 360

Not sure how much the price difference between a (currently non-exiting?) HDMI 1.4a switch and an HDMI 1.4a receiver would be.
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post #209 of 270 Old 06-25-2010, 04:05 PM
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I'm sure this question has been asked prior;however, i do not feel like reading through 20+ pages to find it. My apologies for being lazy. I somewhat see the issue being debated above but it sounds like that's referencing direct tv's 3D versions.

I currently have an onkyo 606. Is it possible to run hdmi to the receiver, set the receiver to pass through, have the receiver steal the audio, and then the tv to display the 1080p 3d?

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post #210 of 270 Old 06-25-2010, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maygit View Post

I'm sure this question has been asked prior;however, i do not feel like reading through 20+ pages to find it. My apologies for being lazy. I somewhat see the issue being debated above but it sounds like that's referencing direct tv's 3D versions.

I currently have an onkyo 606. Is it possible to run hdmi to the receiver, set the receiver to pass through, have the receiver steal the audio, and then the tv to display the 1080p 3d?

If Comcast: yes
If DirecTV: no

Comcast has no 3D flagging while DirecTV does.

In either case it is 1080i SbS 3D with standard 5.1 dolby sound. You can run the HDMI from the receiver to the 3DTV and run TOSLINK to the receiver to get the same video and audio quality.
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