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post #1 of 10 Old 03-04-2010, 02:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
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HDMI LICENSING, LLC RELEASES HDMI SPECIFICATION VERSION 1.4A

Latest Version Specifies Mandatory 3D Formats For Broadcast Content

SUNNYVALE, Calif., March 4, 2010 - HDMI Licensing, LLC today announced the release of the HDMI Specification Version 1.4a, featuring key enhancements for 3D applications including the addition of mandatory 3D formats for broadcast content as well as the addition of the 3D format referred to as Top-and-Bottom. The complete HDMI Specification Version 1.4a, along with the Compliance Test Specification (CTS) Version 1.4a, is available to HDMI Adopters on the HDMI Adopter Extranet.

In addition, an extraction of the 3D portion of the HDMI Specification Version 1.4a is available for public download at http://www.hdmi.org. The purpose of the extraction document is to provide public access to the 3D portion of the HDMI Specification for companies and organizations that are not HDMI Adopters but require access to this portion of the Specification.

The latest HDMI Specification adds key enhancements to support the market requirements for bringing broadcast 3D content into the home:
  1. The addition of Top-and-Bottom to the Specification.
  2. The addition of two mandatory formats for broadcast content:
    • Side-by-Side Horizontal
    • Top-and-Bottom
With the addition of these two mandatory formats, the HDMI Specification Version 1.4a provides a level of interoperability for devices designed to deliver 3D content over the HDMI connection. The mandatory 3D formats are:

Mandatory 3D Formats
  • For movie content:
    • Frame Packing
      • 1080p @ 23.98/24Hz
  • For game content:
    • Frame Packing
      • 720p @ 50 or 59.94/60Hz
  • For broadcast content:
    • Side-by-Side Horizontal
      • 1080i @ 50 or 59.94/60Hz
    • Top-and-Bottom
      • 720p @ 50 or 59.94/60Hz
      • 1080p @ 23.97/24Hz
Implementing the mandatory formats of the HDMI Specification facilitates interoperability among devices, allowing devices to speak a common 3D language when transmitting and receiving 3D content. The mandatory requirements for devices implementing 3D formats are:
  • Displays - must support all mandatory formats.
  • Sources - must support at least one mandatory format.
  • Repeaters - must be able to pass through all mandatory formats.
HDMI Adopters will have 90 days from the publication of the HDM Specification Version 1.4a to build and sell products that are compliant with the HDMI Specification Version 1.4a as well as pass the CTS Version 1.4a. This also applies to legacy set-top boxes that may have upgraded to use Specification Version 1.4 signaling.

For more information about the HDMI specification please visit http://www.hdmi.org.

NOTE:

I would like to give full credit to cavu for first posting this. I was concerned that few would see it because it was posted in the 3D from CeBIT thread I had started. This is a very noteworthy announcement.
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post #2 of 10 Old 03-04-2010, 03:41 PM
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In HDMI version 1.4, it seemed like the "Frame Packing" format for progressive video modes would be the one and only format for 3D on HDMI, since that was the only mandatory format for displays.

HDMI version 1.4a now makes *THREE* modes mandatory:
Frame Packing, Side-by-Side(half) and the new Top-and-Bottom, AKA Over/Under(half)

More specific, for 60Hz displays, these 5 modes are all mandatory:
FP 720p60 and 1080p24
SBS 1080i60
TB 720p60 and 1080p24

For 50 Hz displays, it's:
FP 720p50 and 1080p24
SBS 1080i50
TB 720p50 and 1080p24

This complicates things a bit for displays, since now three 3D modes have to be supported on the input, and have to be reformated to respective display system.

But it makes things much easier for sources. Especially those players with older HDMI 1.3 hardware can now rely on the display to support two frame-compatible formats, albeit at half the original resolution. So, a cable box or sat receiver would only need a firmware upgrade to perform the new EDID checks and send out the new HDMI InfoFrames.

I'm wondering a bit about the mandatory formats, since DirectTV indicated they would do 1080p24 side-by-side(half), but that format is not among the mandatory display formats, only 1080i60 is.

So, "Frame Packing" is still the only mode of those mandatory ones that support full resolution, full color 3D over HDMI.

This also means, since the spec was just released today, that the first batch of HDMI 1.4 3D TVs will most likely not meet these 1.4a requirements, and won't support Top-and-Bottom at all. Make sure before you buy one of these new 3D TVs that it's at least upgradable to the 1.4a requirements by firmware!
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post #3 of 10 Old 03-04-2010, 04:30 PM
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I still don't get why SbS and Over/Under were included, but TI's checkerboard wasn't. Oh well, no use crying over spilled milk.

On the other hand, with this latest news, it isn't good for 3D-Ready DLP owners whom subscribe to Directv. The broadcast standards don't include 1080p/60Hz, so our displays won't work straight out of the box with it. You can't even turn 3D mode on if sent a 1080i signal, or 1080p24 signal.

The only way around this is for someone to cap whatever is being aired, then use a software player like Stereoscopic Player to convert it on the fly, and output it at 1080p/60Hz.

Currently testing 3D with Sammy DLP, shutter glasses, and HTPC
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post #4 of 10 Old 03-04-2010, 04:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taz291819 View Post

I still don't get why SbS and Over/Under were included, but TI's checkerboard wasn't. Oh well, no use crying over spilled milk.

On the other hand, with this latest news, it isn't good for 3D-Ready DLP owners whom subscribe to Directv. The broadcast standards don't include 1080p/60Hz, so our displays won't work straight out of the box with it. You can't even turn 3D mode on if sent a 1080i signal, or 1080p24 signal.

The only way around this is for someone to cap whatever is being aired, then use a software player like Stereoscopic Player to convert it on the fly, and output it at 1080p/60Hz.

For the Mit's DLP RPTV owners (and hopefully for the Samsung owners too), that is what the 3DC-1000 3D adapter is for. It is a 3D format converter.

Mitsubishi 3DC-1000 3D Adapter Available

New 3D Adapter Will Enable Cross-Platform Compatibility for 3D Content

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.ph...9422&Itemid=47
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post #5 of 10 Old 03-04-2010, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

For the Mit's DLP RPTV owners (and hopefully for the Samsung owners too), that is what the 3DC-1000 3D adapter is for. It is a 3D format converter.

Mitsubishi 3DC-1000 3D Adapter Available

New 3D Adapter Will Enable Cross-Platform Compatibility for 3D Content

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.ph...9422&Itemid=47

Lee, that press release only mentions 3D BD, which according to the HDMI 1.4 spec, doesn't include the required broadcast specs. The Mits converter may very well do it, but since it only mentioned 3D BD, we don't know yet.

I've emailed RealD (since that's what Directv is going to use) to ask if their SbS POD will convert SbS 1080i to checkerboard 1080p.

Currently testing 3D with Sammy DLP, shutter glasses, and HTPC
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post #6 of 10 Old 03-04-2010, 05:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taz291819 View Post

Lee, that press release only mentions 3D BD, which according to the HDMI 1.4 spec, doesn't include the required broadcast specs. The Mits converter may very well do it, but since it only mentioned 3D BD, we don't know yet.

From the link:

Quote:
Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America, Inc. (MDEA) will showcase the flexibility and versatility of its 3D-ready TV products by displaying 3D content delivered by various video sources, including Blu-Ray players at CES 2010 in the "Experience 3D Tech Zone".

Who was at CES 2010 and did they visit the Mits booth and what were the sources of the 3D that they were using to demo?

Quote:
I've emailed RealD (since that's what Directv is going to use) to ask if their SbS POD will convert SbS 1080i to checkerboard 1080p.

Side-by-Side POD

Quote:
The RealD SbS POD receives and transmits a single HDMI compatible audio/video signal. When receiving standard 2D content, the content is passed from input to output without modification; but when receiving the RealD 3D format content, the format is automatically converted into either Checkerboard (CB) (DLP) or Horizontal Interlace (HI) (Xpol) format, depending on how the POD detects the attached 3D HDTV.

http://www.reald.com/Content/POD-Sid...Interlace.aspx
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post #7 of 10 Old 03-04-2010, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

From the link:

Yeah, I read that, but you know how press releases go. That could have meant their other displays, not the DLPs.

But after thinking about it, if it were 3D BD only, they could have ditched the converter and just implemented checkerboard output in their own 3D BD players. A multi-method converter covers all bases.

Currently testing 3D with Sammy DLP, shutter glasses, and HTPC
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post #8 of 10 Old 03-04-2010, 05:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taz291819 View Post

Yeah, I read that, but you know how press releases go. That could have meant their other displays, not the DLPs.

But after thinking about it, if it were 3D BD only, they could have ditched the converter and just implemented checkerboard output in their own 3D BD players. A multi-method converter covers all bases.

Quote:
The Mitsubishi 3DC-1000 3D adapter will be responsible for providing your TV with a converter that would make the images 3D or at least that’s what it aims to do. According to Mitsubishi, they will be providing 3D content through different mediums like the Blu-ray player that would be 3D enabled among many other 3D TV products they will be launching.

Mitsubishi hopes to join the other companies that focus on providing the home theater systems at home 3D technology and capabilities that would result in a full 3D experience. The Mitsubishi 3DC-1000 3D adapter will be available during the Spring of 2010 and would be Mitsubishi’s solution to the cost of 3D technology by providing affordable 3D experiences.

http://www.jdmag.com/mitsubishi-3dc-1000-3d-adapter/

It's called a 3D Adapter - not a 3D BD Adapter. If that's all it did - 3D BD and no 3D from CB or SAT - that would be a real kick in the teeth for Mits owners.
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post #9 of 10 Old 03-04-2010, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

http://www.jdmag.com/mitsubishi-3dc-1000-3d-adapter/

It's called a 3D Adapter - not a 3D BD Adapter. If that's all it did - 3D BD and no 3D from CB or SAT - that would be a really kick in the teeth for Mits owners.

Nice find, I've never read that article. Looks like my and my parents next display will be a Mits. Still wish they'd go with a LED-based DLP though. Can't complain though, with that ~$1900 deal for a 60" DLP, PS3, Avatar game, and two pairs of Xpand glasses, you can't go wrong. Hell, throw in their converter for ~$100, and you're good to go.

Currently testing 3D with Sammy DLP, shutter glasses, and HTPC
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post #10 of 10 Old 03-05-2010, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taz291819 View Post

Nice find, I've never read that article. Looks like my and my parents next display will be a Mits.

Don't forget the Checkerboard format, supported by the current DLP screens, is only a "half" 3D resolution format. I have not seen any announcements, but I assume that all 3D DLPs coming out later this year (christmas?) will have full HDMI 1.4a 3D support, and also support frame packing (full), side-by-side (half) and top bottom (half).

So, this adapter, since it was developed with HDMI 1.4 (not 1.4a) in mind, will probably support frame packing as the only input format (full resolution per eye) and then convert it to checkerboard (half resolution per eye). But, if they want to keep the "HDMI 3D" clout, they would apparently have to add side-by-side and top-bottom as additional input formats within 90 days.

This would involve converting one "half" into another "half" format. There might be more math and filtering involved, but that generally leaves with about a quarter of the original resolution per eye.

Or, in other words, if you get a 1.4a firmware upgrade on your cable/sat box to support SBS or TB 3D formats, and you are an early adopter with an older DLP, you get the short end of the stick.
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