3-D demonstration at Best Buy - initial thoughts - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 113 Old 03-27-2010, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNnDENVER View Post

Can you tell me what scenes you found the motion blur unacceptable?

If the stores can't even get this stuff right? I dunno...

I really checked it out last night for a long period of time at what is called an "Ultimate Electronics" and found no obvious issues with the 3D PQ at all.

from beginning to just past wedding scene
and then few other scenes- fight on the bridge and few around end
unless all characters standing still - found it unwatchable
I'm down in Boston in couple weeks so going to search out some
Demo's in better stores

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post #92 of 113 Old 03-27-2010, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

I've seen a Samsung demo. The 3D picture (besides some ghosting and a poor black level) was very good! No motion blur and lots and lots of depth with a number of scenes where images reached out of the screen at you, which was pretty cool. I haven't seen the Panny demo yet and if it is better then it should be a knock out.

IMO, it is better. Watching Monsters vs Aliens is like seeing a different movie - for me, it provides a greater sense of depth, richer contrast and (I keep saying it) almost no crosstalk. Now, the ghosting could be caused by the glasses (how much light is getting through or a sync problem). I'm really anxious to see the Samsung LCD demo with 3rd party glasses when they become available.

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post #93 of 113 Old 03-27-2010, 08:46 AM
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I also had a bad demo at BB with the Samsung just the week before. They claimed it only worked the first day or so after setup.
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post #94 of 113 Old 03-27-2010, 09:31 AM
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So I went to 2 different Best Buys in Tulsa, they only had the Samsung set up playing MvA. Both were horrible. The first store was completely off, the crosstalk was unbearable. It was set up in the close-seating, brightly-lit, tv wall behind the viewer fashion. There was basically no 3D effect at all. The other store was set up in a little darker area with the tv wall behind the set. The chairs were also much further back. I tried both the glasses they had set up. When I first put on the glasses it was awesome... for all of 3 seconds. When I put them on there was a noticeable shift of darkness. But after 3 seconds I could see them go completely light, everything viewed through them just looked a little yellow. The other pair would work for about 10-15 secs and then the same thing. I asked the associate and he stated that he might need to switch them out. Then when I described what it was doing in detail he told me it was supposed to do that. He said he noticed that too, in some scenes the 3D is great but in others it's supposed to be more like 2D. I just smiled and nodded, thanked him for his time. I didn't even know what to say. I mean, this film was created in 3D! It is 'converted' to 2D, not the other way around. But he honestly thought it was just normal for it to switch back and forth between 3D and 2D. I mean, sure, some scenes have more depth and others less but it's not 2D.

And what really sucks is that some people will see these bad demos and say it's a gimmick and be done with it. And others will lie to themselves saying they see it when they really don't.

I went to the first BB the day after the demo came to stores so I'm gonna go back to see if maybe it was just off. But so far, BB is really screwing this up by not making sure everything is working correctly.
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post #95 of 113 Old 03-27-2010, 09:41 AM
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Kids (ages 7 and 6) and I stopped by a local BB (midtown Toronto). Un55c7000 showing a few minute repeat from Monsters vs. Aliens. They watched for 10-15 minutes. I saw a few seconds.

I was underwhelmed. I was expecting to see the 3D effects come out from the screen; instead it is a greater depth of field behind the screen.
The rep there commented that most people had the same reaction. Said they hadn't sold any; he viewed it as a way to get traffic into the store.

My 7 year old daughter was her usual subtle self. "They lied. The ad shows the girl jumping out from the TV, but nothing jumps out. It sucks."


I was just surprised that they wouldn't have created an absolute WOW experience for the launch with a canned trailer that really showed off the 3D. This is just' meh'.

Oh well. Let's see if there is anything to watch and if it gains any traction.


...karl
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post #96 of 113 Old 03-27-2010, 09:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbrumund View Post

Kids (ages 7 and 6) and I stopped by a local BB (midtown Toronto). Un55c7000 showing a few minute repeat from Monsters vs. Aliens. They watched for 10-15 minutes. I saw a few seconds.

I was underwhelmed. I was expecting to see the 3D effects come out from the screen; instead it is a greater depth of field behind the screen.
The rep there commented that most people had the same reaction. Said they hadn't sold any; he viewed it as a way to get traffic into the store.

My 7 year old daughter was her usual subtle self. "They lied. The ad shows the girl jumping out from the TV, but nothing jumps out. It sucks."


I was just surprised that they wouldn't have created an absolute WOW experience for the launch with a canned trailer that really showed off the 3D. This is just' meh'.

Oh well. Let's see if there is anything to watch and if it gains any traction.


...karl

3D is changing (thank God) from a gimmick to a different method of movie presentaion. Recent quote about this change:

"He liked how James Cameron showed the world that it was "not about poking you in the eye but instead it was pulling you in."
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post #97 of 113 Old 03-27-2010, 11:07 AM
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I have been waiting for 3-D to come along for a long, long time and I was willing to put the money where my mouth is, and buy the new projector and blu-ray player to bring it home, but the demo I saw at Best Buy was very dissapointing to say the least. I have an old none-HD shutter glass system that cost $25.00 3 years ago and it is much more convincing at 3-d and makes you want to watch more but boy That demo sucked.

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post #98 of 113 Old 03-27-2010, 11:10 AM
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[quote=My 7 year old daughter was her usual subtle self. "They lied. The ad shows the girl jumping out from the TV, but nothing jumps out. It sucks."
I...karl[/QUOTE]

Thanks for that - my laugh for the day

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post #99 of 113 Old 03-27-2010, 11:32 AM
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Both the 3D BD player and the T.V. have to be in 3D mode for a 3D movie to really jump off the screen! If the BD player isn't in 3D mode it just sends the 2D signal to the T.V. and you basically get 2D to 3D conversion and it is not the "in your face" experience you're expecting! I saw the demo this way with Aliens vs. Monsters 3D and it was just O.K. Once they changed the setting in the BD player it looked really, really good! And yes, there are scenes where things literally came way out of the screen. The demo I saw wasn't a "lie".
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post #100 of 113 Old 03-27-2010, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Both the 3D BD player and the T.V. have to be in 3D mode for a 3D movie to really jump off the screen! If the BD player isn't in 3D mode it just sends the 2D signal to the T.V. and you basically get 2D to 3D conversion and it is not the "in your face" experience you're expecting! I saw the demo this way with Aliens vs. Monsters 3D and it was just O.K. Once they changed the setting in the BD player it looked really, really good! And yes, there are scenes where things literally came way out of the screen. The demo I saw wasn't a "lie".

Gee, I didn't realize that. Hmmmmm.... that might account for some of the really bad reviews we've been reading here, as the demo I saw on the 55" Samsung LED was terrific.
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post #101 of 113 Old 03-27-2010, 02:27 PM
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If there was no 3D effect with the Samsung, it may well have been caused by the salesperson putting in a 2D version of Monsters vs. Aliens and running it in 2D, or by letting the 2D to 3D conversion create the 3D effect. In the case of the latter, it's perfectly normal for the 3D effect to go off and on.

I had a Best Buy manager do this when he was attempting to show me the movie. Not until we got to the menu, which is real 3D, did I realize he had the 2D version of the movie in the player.

There are all sorts of ways of screwing up the demo. If it's done right, there's plenty of depth and in-your-face 3D in Monsters vs Aliens. If someone doesn't see honest-to-gosh 3D during the demo, something's wrong. It's probably a bad demo, but I've read that 8-10% of the population can't see depth in stereo 3D images. It could be because of a vision problem in one eye, or simply a lack of depth perception. Some people can be trained to see it, and some people will never see it.

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post #102 of 113 Old 03-27-2010, 03:51 PM
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It's all in the set up. I've seen it both ways on the same Samsung C7000. The first time was nearly unwatchable, the second time a few days later was terrific. BB needs to get their act together, that's all - nothing wrong with the TV.

Because I'm a part time FL resident I have no need to buy a 3D TV until this fall and I'm glad of that. A few months worth of reviews should show me the path but in any case I will be buying 3D for the potential sports programming alone.....

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post #103 of 113 Old 03-27-2010, 05:11 PM
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I went to 2 local best buys, and it looked bad,at the apple valley ca. store they couldnt get the glasses syncornized,and at the victorville ca. store there was too much glare from the other tvs behind the display. I did go to the sears store in victorvile ca. and the display worked perfectly!! as a matter of fact it looked so good that my wife wants me to sell my hdtv and buy a 3D tv! SO you''all might want to check out your local sears stores and see if you have better luck.
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post #104 of 113 Old 03-28-2010, 09:01 PM
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Hey so this is my first post, but you may find it interesting to know that I am a home theatre salesman for best buy, however i work at one in winnipeg (Manitoba, canada). I've been reading AVS forum for some time now and realize that there is a general hate of best buy in these forums but I try as hard as i can to break away from this stereotype.

We just launched our 3d display this past friday and after a weekend of playing with the display and looking using the real time 2d to 3d conversion, i can say that the technology is quite impressive.

When the glasses first power on the effect is similar to putting on sunglasses. this is due to the fact that our eyes cannot see things refreshing as fast as the glasses do, so we see something in between off and on for each eyes. When looking away from the tv from a 3D tv, I and 2 other salesman saw the flickering from the glasses, I won't try to explain why it happens but after prolonged exposure it induced a headache and soon after the glasses powered off.

As far as the 3D effect goes I find that it differs slightly from the theatres. When watching our monsters vs aliens loop, I found that the characters did not fly out of the screen nearly as much as they do in the theatres, but instead its almost as if you can reach into the tv, the customers I dealt with this weekend tended to agree with me. I did notice that things looked significantly blurrier and the depth of the image was not nearly as clear with the dejudder processing turned off, as such turning the dejudder processing all the way up provided the best picture quality by far. I did notice some ghosting even when the picture was stationary, haven't been able to figure out why yet tho.

As for the "Real Time 3D Conversion", I was very impressed with it as it played through a trailer for 2012 and our Rogers Sportnet loop. The picture was best with the depth setting to maximum (46" about 8 feet away), and it gave a very immersive feeling. Overall very impressed with the technology but still waiting to see a live action native 3D source.
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post #105 of 113 Old 03-28-2010, 09:22 PM
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Welcome to AVS posting. I, for one, do not hate Best Buy. I like the store and am a Reward Zone Silver member, which means I spend enough money each year that they want me to think they think I'm really special.

Unfortunately, the experience of getting good information can be frustrating. Often, I've had sales reps tell me things I know are wrong. I've also come across some very knowledgeable reps. I wish more Best Buy sales reps came to AVS. It's been the best educational experience I've ever had when it comes to home theater. Everyone can learn from frequent visits here. No matter how much I know about any given topic, I can always find someone who knows more.

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post #106 of 113 Old 03-29-2010, 10:10 AM
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Best Buy.. depends on the store & who's on the floor,

results vary all over the map.


Example: Best Buy Kennesaw... last Wednesday, after 20 minutes waiting in Magnolia room,
I chased down the store manager who called a Magnolia rep up to the front desk.

We went to the Samsung 3D TV in an open area with too much lighting, TV screens behind the set reflecting back into the Samsung screen. The 3D presentation was remarkably good... given the location. The sales rep knew the correct set up for the 3D TV.

This past Saturday I took my son into the Canton Best Buy store to look at the 3D.

Best Buy in Canton had the screen set to 2D, sales rep didn't have a clue asurring us we were watching 3D.

We finally got the remote, scrolled over to 3D on the Sammy, and the poor set up still left a lot to be desired.

If you only went to the Canton store...
you would walk away thinking 3D was a "bust".

Neither store had the Panasonic available.
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post #107 of 113 Old 03-29-2010, 01:39 PM
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Panasonic 3D is really good, similiar to Real D films like Avatar. Really good Picture Quality, bright, smooth motion, yet akward (feeling) glasses. There was a 3D demo playing.

Samsung 3D was good, just not as good as the Panasonic. The picture was bright but the motion was laggy, froze and the glasses temporarily got out-of-sync. Samsung's glasses did feel very natural. Monsters Vs. Aliens was on display.
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post #108 of 113 Old 03-29-2010, 01:45 PM
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Samsung really needs to make sure each and every demo is set up perfectly and the same. I've seen it look absolutely fabulous where the ray gun in MvA actually does protrude from the screen, and I've seen it look horrible where they're just converting a 2D movie to 3D. The problem Samsung has is that everyone that sees the poor setups are going to get the wrong impression. Eventually LG and Sony will have their demos going, and if the Samsung demo is still screwed up in some stores, the potential customers will definitely choose one of the other brands.
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post #109 of 113 Old 03-29-2010, 04:04 PM
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I saw yet another Samsung demo today and for the first time thought the ghosting was considerably reduced from previous demos I saw. I don't know if Samsung engineers have tweaked the displays, or if the conditions were simply better. There was still ghosting, especially in the bridge scene, but it was noticeably less.

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post #110 of 113 Old 08-20-2010, 05:43 PM
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Tonight I saw 3D for the first time(new 3D EQ release 2010).

I went in to look at Front Projectors because I pulled the trigger on a used Sony VW60 FP today. Won't get here till next week.

But a sales guy at the ABC warehouse grabed me to sell me something. I used Robert Stacks avoidance tactics from the movie "Airport". He left me alone.

I walked by a half dozen 3D TVs of various makes on the way find the front projectors. But no 3D glases anywhere. So I found the same salesguy and asked him about 3D. He got the glasses for the Sony 55Hx. He pulled up a park bench and set it 10 or so feet away from the 55" Sony. He grabbed the remote and showed me a dozen or so various 3D movie clips and sports. All were awesome. One was I think from the aquarium near Carmel CA. It looked just like looking into a real aquarium, absolutly three dimentional, WOW WOW WOW.

I was blown away at the great look of the variuos Blu-ray 3D clips and effects. The salesguy said he liked the Sony 3D better than the other brands they carried.

The Sony when set to 2D look equally beautiful. One of the best TVs Iv'e ever seen. Ultra sharp, colorful, real and bright.

3D is the future.

The 3D I saw tonight BLEW AWAY all my past 3D DVD experiances. Any 3D DVD I've ever seen , well I usually lasted five minutes, before the funky glasses came off.

Granted, I only wacthed for 20 minutes. But after five minutes I slid the bench to 7 feet from the set. It looked eevn better close up to the set with almost all my vision being filled by the set.

Some of you guys need to see better 3D demos than this threads many negitive posts report on, because as a retired commecal photographer, I know when I see quality, and tonight that's what I saw!

I can't wait till I own a 3d Front projector if it will do what I saw tonight. I'm now a big fan of 3D by anybrand as long as it's looking good.

Enjoy,

Allan
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post #111 of 113 Old 08-20-2010, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pipelion View Post

Tonight I saw 3D for the first time(new 3D EQ release 2010).


The 3D I saw tonight BLEW AWAY all my past 3D DVD experiances. Any 3D DVD I've ever seen , well I usually lasted five minutes, before the funky glasses came off.


Some of you guys need to see better 3D demos than this threads many negitive posts report on, because as a retired commecal photographer, I know when I see quality, and tonight that's what I saw!

Ummmm, what????

Do you realize how old this thread is Allan? Firmware updates have changed the big picture (pun intended).

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post #112 of 113 Old 08-22-2010, 04:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

3D is changing (thank God) from a gimmick to a different method of movie presentaion. Recent quote about this change:

"He liked how James Cameron showed the world that it was "not about poking you in the eye but instead it was pulling you in."

Quite right too. We don't spend our lives ducking because objects suddenly fly towards our faces in the real world and I have have never liked it with 3D film and video. It really is a complete gimmick, makes focussing on objects difficult to impossible in some cases and is highly annoying.

Image Depth is what decent 3D is all about as far as I am concerned.
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post #113 of 113 Old 08-27-2010, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Ummmm, what????

Do you realize how old this thread is Allan? Firmware updates have changed the big picture (pun intended).

Buzzard, Sorry this is confusing. What I should have said is this was my first view of the NEW 3D with synced glasses.

The old 3D experiances are the kind you couldn't see the movie through the bad 3D effect.

Yes it's an old thread. "One should only write what is true, then it's still true 6 months later", he he!
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