Mitsubishi 3DC-1000 3D Starter Pack Info - April 2010 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 854 Old 04-14-2010, 03:31 PM - Thread Starter
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I sent an email to Mitsu Customer Service in regards to DLP-Link compatibility, and got the following reply.

In adition to clarifying some questions, it seems they will have a Starter Pack available with the 3D adapter, along with 2 pairs of glasses, an emitter, and a Disney "showcase" disc.

See numbers 10 and 11 below.

Quote:


Thank you for contacting Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America, Inc. We are pleased to be able to assist our customers via our website. Here is the information that you have requested:


1. What is 3D TV?
Currently, there is no industry standard for the definition of 3D TV. CEA has formed a working group to draft the definition and
Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America (MDEA) is a member of this subgroup. Currently the industry is using 3DTV as a generic
term for a display technology that lets home viewers experience TV programs, movies, games, and other video content in a 3D
stereoscopic effect using active shutter glasses.
2. How is the new 3D TV technology different from older 3D?
Prior to 2010, there have been 3D DVD titles that have come to market that use anaglyph glasses, which use lenses tinted red
and cyan (or other colors) which are used to combine two false-color images. The result seen by the viewer is discolored and
usually lower-resolution than the new method.
The principal improvement of today's 3D technology is the use of active shutter and passive eyewear which are high contrast
and provide for better higher video resolution experience. Today's 3DTVs also have technology that enables 3D images to be
rendered on screen as intended by the studio broadcaster.
3. How is 3D TV different from 3D in the theater?
3DTV is a large screen, immersive experience. Many consumers have experienced 3D feature films at 3D movie theaters. The
DLP technology used in over 95% of 3D cinemas is the same core technology used in Mitsubishi 3D-Ready and Mitsubishi 3D
TVs! In theaters, passive polarized 3D glasses are mainly used to view 3D movies. Most present day 3DTVs utilize active
shutter glasses. Smaller screen sizes may present other issues relative to viewing 3D in the home, such as relatively narrow
viewing distance range.
4. Can everyone see 3D?
No. Between 5 percent and 10 percent of Americans suffer from stereo blindness, according to the College of Optometrists in
Vision Development. They often have good depth perception, which relies on more than just stereopsis, but cannot perceive the
depth dimension of 3D video presentations. Some stereo-blind viewers can watch 3D material with no problem as long as they
wear glasses; it simply appears as 2D to them.
5. Does everyone watching programming on a 3D TV need to wear 3D glasses?
Yes. Everyone watching programming on a 3D TV must wear 3D glasses to properly see the 3D effect. Without 3D glasses, the
image on the screen will appear doubled, distorted, and unwatchable. Currently, a technology does not exist which allows a
single TV to display both 2D and 3D content simultaneously without 3D glasses.
6. Do I need a new Blu-ray player, cable box, game console, or AV receiver?
With one exception the answer for Blu-ray players is "yes." No Blu-ray player maker has announced an upgrade to existing 2009
or earlier Blu-ray players to work with Blu-ray 3D movies, so a new 3D Blu-ray player will be required to watch 3D BD movies.
The Sony Playstation 3 is an exception. Sony has announced that its PS3 game console will receive two separate firmware
upgrades--one for gaming and another to allow display of 3D Blu-rays--in June 2010. Previously there was some confusion
about whether the Blu-ray capability of the console would in fact be full HD resolution as seen through newer standalone Blu-ray
players, however Sony has announced that it will, despite the fact that the PS3 is not HDMI 1.4-certified (question 10). In
addition, a question was posed of the console's 3D capability only working with Sony TVs. Sony replied that the PS3 would work
in 3D with any 3D-compatible TV.
With regard to the Xbox 360 and the Wii, neither Microsoft nor Nintendo has outlined its plans for 3D gaming.
DirecTV has announced that its lower-resolution 3D system will require only a free software update to the company's current HD
boxes. These Set-Top Boxes (STBs) will pass-through the 3D encoded content as either side by side or top/bottom format. In
the case of DirecTV, the current HD STBs are HDMI 1.3 and as a result, DirecTV has developed its signaling protocol (via
EDID) to communicate with 3DTVs and confirm the TV is 3D prior to making 3D channels visible on the program guide.
7. Can I use my existing HDMI cables?
At this point, it appears you can. The best information we have obtained, indicates that most current HDMI cables will work fine
with the new 3D formats. One caveat is that HDMI cables (over three feet) might potentially have issues. Category 2 high speed
type cables which have been available for several years, are recommended.
8. What 3D movies will be available for home viewing this year? 3D TV channels? 3D games?
Blu-ray movies announced this year in full-HD 3D include "Monsters vs. Aliens," "Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs," "Disney's
A Christmas Carol," "Ice Age: Dawn of the Dinosaurs," and all three "Shrek" movies. Additional 3D movies will be announced
soon, among them the first non-animated titles. If you're curious about "Avatar," for example, latest word is that the 3D version
won't come out in 2010.
Comcast, Time Warner and Cox Communications will broadcast the Masters tournament in 3D for 2 hours per day in select
markets.
DirecTV will be the first TV provider with 3D content, announcing three 3D channels of its own (one on-demand channel, one
pay channel, and one free channel). ESPN has noted that they will broadcast 85 events over the course of the year starting
June 2010 with the first game of the 2010 World Cup.
With the help of gear like the Nvidia 3D kit, PCs have been able to deliver 3D games, many converted from 2D versions, for the
last few years to some compatible TVs and monitors. However, no console games specifically designed to work with the new 3D
TVs have been announced, aside from Avatar: The Game. We expect 3D versions of existing games to be announced this year,
perhaps with an "upgrade path" allowing existing owners to not have to repurchase the game at full price, but nothing's been
officially announced yet.
9. Do the NVIDIA glasses work with a PS3, or 3D BD players?
No, the NVIDIA glasses currently are not compatible. The NVIDIA glasses are designed to specifically work with a PC based
playback system for games or BD movies. We have not heard of any changes to this.
10. I have a 2007 - 2009 Mitsubishi 3D Ready TV. How do I get to watch 3D on these TVs?
3D Gaming solutions using PCs have been in the market for several years. NVIDIA has promoted drivers, games and their
glasses in order to enable consumers to play PC based games in 3D. NVIDIA has also announced plans to provide drivers to
enable PCs with BD playback to also decode 3D BD movies and games.
In order to enjoy 3D movies, 3D games, and 3D broadcast content on 2007-2009 3D Ready Mitsubishi TVs, consumers can
purchase the new Mitsubishi 3D Starter pack that includes the 3D Adapter (Model 3DC-1000), two pair of glasses, emitter, and a
Disney showcase disc.
11. I have a Mitsubishi 3D Ready TV, is it compatible to DLP Link glasses?
Yes, all Mitsubishi 3D Ready TVs are compatible with DLP Link glasses. In addition, these TVs have a VESA jack for an
external synchronization emitter for non DLP Link glasses. This provides the user with maximum flexibility and choices of
glasses.
12. Are all 3D active shutter glasses compatible with each other?
For active shutter glasses, the industry has not settled on a common protocol format. Therefore, consumers that have 3D
glasses from Samsung, Panasonic, Sony will not interoperate. As a consumer if you want to watch a 3D event on your friend's
Samsung TV, and only have Panasonic glasses, you will not be able to see 3D. CEA as well as many eyewear manufacturers
are working to define a common protocol standard to eliminate this issue. XPAND has publicly announced eyewear that will
interoperate with multiple vendors' 3DTV products available in June.

Regards



MDEA


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post #2 of 854 Old 04-14-2010, 04:07 PM
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Very nice. Depending on the cost of the starter pack, I may pick it up. If it's ~$300, I'll just stick with the converter only, unless they plan on using X103s are their IR glasses.

Currently testing 3D with Sammy DLP, shutter glasses, and HTPC
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post #3 of 854 Old 04-14-2010, 07:57 PM
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I am unclear from the Mitsu CS response about the NVIDIA glasses. I know that they only work presently if used with a computer that has an NVIDIA 3D card. I also know that 3D BD players and other sources will need to convert the signal to the "checkerboard" format for compatibility with the Mitsu DLP TV, hence the 3DC-1000.

Does this mean that the NVIDIA glasses and emitter will not work with a Mitsu DLP without the 3DC-1000 converter or NOT AT ALL?? I have a Sony BDP - S570and am waiting for the promised 3D firmware upgrade, due in July. In the interim, I have purchased the NVIDIA 3D GeForce Vision kit (which includes an emitter and stereographic shutter glasses) and separately, an extra pair of glasses. Was that a mistake or will the converter make them compatible?

Thanks to anyone who can help me with the answer!
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post #4 of 854 Old 04-14-2010, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgd18 View Post

I am unclear from the Mitsu CS response about the NVIDIA glasses. I know that they only work presently if used with a computer that has an NVIDIA 3D card. I also know that 3D BD players and other sources will need to convert the signal to the "checkerboard" format for compatibility with the Mitsu DLP TV, hence the 3DC-1000.

Does this mean that the NVIDIA glasses and emitter will not work with a Mitsu DLP without the 3DC-1000 converter or NOT AT ALL?? I have a Sony BDP - S570and am waiting for the promised 3D firmware upgrade, due in July. In the interim, I have purchased the NVIDIA 3D GeForce Vision kit (which includes an emitter and stereographic shutter glasses) and separately, an extra pair of glasses. Was that a mistake or will the converter make them compatible?

Thanks to anyone who can help me with the answer!

According to those who know at NVIDIA & Mitsubushi, NVIDIA 3D Vision will only work with a PC source; the emitter depends on communication with the driver running on the PC. The Mitsubishi 3DC-1000 is an adapter for converting the incoming 3D signal to a format (checkerboard) the display will understand; it does not affect how the emitter functions.

'Better Living Through Modern, Expensive, Electronic Devices'

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post #5 of 854 Old 04-15-2010, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

According to those who know at NVIDIA & Mitsubushi, NVIDIA 3D Vision will only work with a PC source; the emitter depends on communication with the driver running on the PC. The Mitsubishi 3DC-1000 is an adapter for converting the incoming 3D signal to a format (checkerboard) the display will understand; it does not affect how the emitter functions.

Actually, the emitter is getting the signal from the display, hence the reason it has to be connected to the VESA port on DLPs. The kicker is, the emitter won't turn on unless it's also connected to a PC, and it has to get the "turn on" signal from the PC.

You can trick the nvidia emitter though. On the PC, play a 3D sample video and loop it. This tells the emitter to turn on. Then, change sources on the display, and turn 3D Mode on in the display. In the end, the emitter is being told to turn on by the PC, and but it's getting the sync signal from another source.

A guy on the nvidia forums tried this with his XBox360 and the Avatar game. He said it worked perfectly.

Currently testing 3D with Sammy DLP, shutter glasses, and HTPC
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post #6 of 854 Old 04-15-2010, 08:37 AM
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I wonder when Disney will make their demo disc available. I already ordered and received a 3D BD Player and am waiting on the 3D TV. I wonder how that will affect those that purchased early? It sounds like a nice disc and I would like to get one.
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post #7 of 854 Old 04-15-2010, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taz291819 View Post

Actually, the emitter is getting the signal from the display, hence the reason it has to be connected to the VESA port on DLPs. The kicker is, the emitter won't turn on unless it's also connected to a PC, and it has to get the "turn on" signal from the PC.

You can trick the nvidia emitter though. On the PC, play a 3D sample video and loop it. This tells the emitter to turn on. Then, change sources on the display, and turn 3D Mode on in the display. In the end, the emitter is being told to turn on by the PC, and but it's getting the sync signal from another source.

A guy on the nvidia forums tried this with his XBox360 and the Avatar game. He said it worked perfectly.

Interesting. Sounds reasonable.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbug View Post

I wonder when Disney will make their demo disc available. I already ordered and received a 3D BD Player and am waiting on the 3D TV. I wonder how that will affect those that purchased early? It sounds like a nice disc and I would like to get one.

Based on the information I found - it looks like November some time:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1235684
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Thanks to Ken H and taz for the insights - although it seems reasonable, it seems like a lot of trouble to me for a work around, so I will sell my 3D vision kit and extra glasses since they are brand new and I will recover my cost.

So my question now is, what emitter/glasses should I get? Should I wait for the Mitsubishi offering with the 3DC-1000 (which would insure compatibility) or is there a good (and hopefully not too high priced) alternative?

Thanks again
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgd18 View Post

Thanks to Ken H and taz for the insights - although it seems reasonable, it seems like a lot of trouble to me for a work around, so I will sell my 3D vision kit and extra glasses since they are brand new and I will recover my cost.

So my question now is, what emitter/glasses should I get? Should I wait for the Mitsubishi offering with the 3DC-1000 (which would insure compatibility) or is there a good (and hopefully not too high priced) alternative?

Thanks again

As far as glasses, you can go with either the XpanD X102 series or the new Viewsonic PGD-150 DLP-Link glasses. Neither require an emitter. Info on both:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1237122

As far as a source component(s) for 3D, you can use the new Panasonic 3D BD player(s). But to get 3D from CBL or SAT, you are going to have to get the Mits 3DC-1000 3D adapter (available June 2010).
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post #11 of 854 Old 04-15-2010, 01:46 PM
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Thanks Lee

I have a Mitsu W73C9 - you say that the XpanD and Viewsonic glasses don't require an emitter? Is that true for my TV?

Sorry for my ignorance, but how do the glasses get the signal if there is no emitter?

Thanks for your time and attention
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgd18 View Post

Thanks Lee

I have a Mitsu WD-73C9 - you say that the XpanD and Viewsonic glasses don't require an emitter? Is that true for my TV?

Sorry for my ignorance, but how do the glasses get the signal if there is no emitter?

Thanks for your time and attention

They get the signal from DLP-Link:

Quote:


Unlike past attempts at bringing 3D to projection systems, T.I.'s new technology uses just one projector coupled with "DLP Link" active shutter glasses--no IR emitters, polarizers, or special screens required. The technology works by dividing a projector's 120 Hz output between the left and right eye (60 Hz each), along with synchronization data coming through during ultra-brief "dark" times between active data transmission. (For computers whose graphics cards are incapable of 120 Hz output, upconversion will be automatic.) 3D projectors will also function normally as 2D projectors without image distortion.

Just looking at your display keeps the glasses in sync with the embeded sync signal
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post #13 of 854 Old 04-15-2010, 02:30 PM
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Can you see 3D TV with one eye or if you have a dominant eye?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TWD View Post

Can you see 3D TV with one eye or if you have a dominant eye?

With one eye? No - you would be Stereo Blind

To see 3D with 3D glasses, you have to have good binocular vision
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Thanks again Lee

I am a "novice" as to the technical aspects but an "enthusiast" who enjoys the toys!

I appreciate the insight and will continue to monitor the board and learn whatever I can - I guess I have until the 3DC-1000 hits the street before I have to make any decision since I will not have any 3D capability until then.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgd18 View Post

Thanks Lee

I have a Mitsu W73C9 - you say that the XpanD and Viewsonic glasses don't require an emitter? Is that true for my TV?

Sorry for my ignorance, but how do the glasses get the signal if there is no emitter?

Thanks for your time and attention

If I were you, I buy one pair of X102s for the time being. When the X103s are released, I'd buy those and a cheap emitter (~$30). The beauty of this is, with your display, the X102s and X103s will work. If you want to go over to some other persons house (like a football party), you can take the X103s to use on their display (if they don't have a DLP).

That's the route I'm going.

Currently testing 3D with Sammy DLP, shutter glasses, and HTPC
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post #17 of 854 Old 04-15-2010, 04:45 PM - Thread Starter
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I was going to buy the XpanD X102 DLP-Link glasses for my Mitsu, but will wait to see pricing on the Starter Kit. From research and other Mitsu deals (http://www.twice.com/article/449668-...t_Linder_s.php), I have a suspicion that the included glasses will be the XpanD X103s. If so, and if the price is right, they will enable more flexibility for visiting people with other 3DTV brands. While I am a die-hard DLPer and appreciate the DLP-Link solution, there is no reason to limit my viewing options, other than price.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post

I was going to buy the XpanD X102 DLP-Link glasses for my Mitsu, but will wait to see pricing on the Starter Kit. From research and other Mitsu deals (http://www.twice.com/article/449668-...t_Linder_s.php), I have a suspicion that the included glasses will be the XpanD X103s. If so, and if the price is right, they will enable more flexibility for visiting people with other 3DTV brands. While I am a die-hard DLPer and appreciate the DLP-Link solution, there is no reason to limit my viewing options, other than price.

That was a special promotion from Linders. It included a Sony PS3 and Avatar the 3D game. And those glasses are not the X103's. They won't be available until June 2010 according to XpanD. So they are either the X101 with an emitter or the X102 DLP Link.

And notice there are two different X102 models:

http://www.xpandcinema.com/products/glasses/
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post #19 of 854 Old 04-15-2010, 05:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry if I was unclear, Lee.

My point was that Mitsu has already partnered with XpanD, so it is logical that the Starter pack may also contain XpanD glasses.

More specifically, I suspect that they will be X103s. It may only be coincidence that both the X103s and the Starter pack are coming out in June, but I will wait and see.

I would also rule out the X102s in the Starter Pack, as both models are DLP-Link, yet an emitter is included with the glasses in the Starter Pack.

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I sent my contact a Email asking about the Mits Starter Kit:

1. Whose glasses are included?

2. When will it be available?
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post #21 of 854 Old 04-15-2010, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, Lee

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post #22 of 854 Old 04-15-2010, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TWD View Post

Can you see 3D TV with one eye or if you have a dominant eye?

If 3D ends up becoming really huge (doubtful), I'm sure an industry will be born within the Ophthalmologist community for treating folks with dominant eyes, and things like this. I might be completely mistaken, but I thought I heard something about being able to get a contact lens for the dominant eye, that will make it so both eyes are "even" so to speak, just for use with watching stereoscopic images. The problem is, I don't think HMO's will cover this kind of thing, so it can get expensive. Also, I've heard that some people have tried to use this, and that it didn't really work, and they just ended up with a splitting migraine.

Still, if 3D really catches on in a major, major way, you might want to find out more about it.
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post #23 of 854 Old 04-16-2010, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

If 3D ends up becoming really huge (doubtful), I'm sure an industry will be born within the Ophthalmologist community for treating folks with dominant eyes, and things like this. I might be completely mistaken, but I thought I heard something about being able to get a contact lens for the dominant eye, that will make it so both eyes are "even" so to speak, just for use with watching stereoscopic images. The problem is, I don't think HMO's will cover this kind of thing, so it can get expensive. Also, I've heard that some people have tried to use this, and that it didn't really work, and they just ended up with a splitting migraine.

Still, if 3D really catches on in a major, major way, you might want to find out more about it.

I'm enthusiastic about 3D; however Blu-Ray hasn't caught on in a major way after 4 to 5 years so I'll be surprised if 3D does. Hopefully there will be enough support for it to allow us to pursue it and obtain enough content to keep us semi-happy.
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post #24 of 854 Old 04-16-2010, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

If 3D ends up becoming really huge (doubtful), I'm sure an industry will be born within the Ophthalmologist community for treating folks with dominant eyes, and things like this. I might be completely mistaken, but I thought I heard something about being able to get a contact lens for the dominant eye, that will make it so both eyes are "even" so to speak, just for use with watching stereoscopic images. The problem is, I don't think HMO's will cover this kind of thing, so it can get expensive. Also, I've heard that some people have tried to use this, and that it didn't really work, and they just ended up with a splitting migraine.

Still, if 3D really catches on in a major, major way, you might want to find out more about it.

There may be conditions needing treatment, but "dominant eye" won't be one of them. Pretty much everyone has a dominant eye, with about 2/3 of people being right-eye dominant, the remaining 1/3 being left-eye dominant.

If you'd like to do a quick test, make a diamond with your hands and center a distant object in the diamond. Then close one eye. If the object "moves", that is your dominant eye. If it doesn't move, your other eye is dominant.
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post #25 of 854 Old 04-16-2010, 08:38 AM - Thread Starter
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I received this answer from my local Mitsu dealer

Quote:


The 3D starter pack will include:
2 pairs of XpanD active shutter glasses
emitter
disney blu ray 3d showcase
3d signal adapter
3d signal adapter remote control
one hdmi cable

For now they do not have a price exactly in place, however they are looking at around $399-$499 and availability around July. These 3d kits will work with the legacy models as well as the new models.


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post #26 of 854 Old 04-16-2010, 10:45 AM
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^^^
Is that the same as the 3DC-1000 adapter kit for legacy 3D-ready models?
If so, I've heard it was going to be around $100 and available in June......
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post #27 of 854 Old 04-16-2010, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mds54 View Post

^^^
Is that the same as the 3DC-1000 adapter kit for legacy 3D-ready models?
If so, I've heard it was going to be around $100 and available in June......

Yep, same adapter. I can see it costing ~$399, if they're including X103s and not X101s.

Currently testing 3D with Sammy DLP, shutter glasses, and HTPC
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post #28 of 854 Old 04-16-2010, 11:05 AM
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i heard through the grapevine that the only way to get the 3d-1000 is with a kit. The kit is gonna be $399.99 with 2 pairs of xpand x102 glasses. the adapter will not be sold stand alone only .
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post #29 of 854 Old 04-16-2010, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golferbradbest View Post

i heard through the grapevine that the only way to get the 3d-1000 is with a kit. The kit is gonna be $399.99 with 2 pairs of xpand x102 glasses. the adapter will not be sold stand alone only .

Makes perfect sense. They know that enough people desperate for this adapter will do what they need to do to get their hands on it. I'm sure eventually, once they've exhausted all the early adopters with DLP's desperate for 3D, they will start selling the adapter separately.
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post #30 of 854 Old 04-16-2010, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golferbradbest View Post

i heard through the grapevine that the only way to get the 3d-1000 is with a kit. The kit is gonna be $399.99 with 2 pairs of xpand x102 glasses. the adapter will not be sold stand alone only .

I don't believe this is correct. As soon as I know more I'll post.

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