Support for 3D 1080p @ 60 and 30 frames per second? - Page 3 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #61 of 73 Old 11-23-2010, 03:07 PM
Senior Member
 
obveron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 409
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by obveron View Post

What we should have aside, it's good to know how to deal with what we do have.
With the current limited HDMI standards, should we be gaming at 720p?

By my math, 3D gaming on the current 3DTVs is best done at 1080p side by side or top bottom. Framepacked 720p has slightly less total pixels.
1920X540=1,036,800
or
960x1080= 1,036,800
or
12870x720= 921,600

I sincerely doubt you could ever see any difference between those two numbers.

I suppose thats true, but still it's good to know what's the best. Alot of people are saying 720p is the best gamers can do right now.

Also isn't 1080p SBS supported on older HDMi standards (pre 1.4)?
(not mention 1080p checkerboard which also beats framepacked 720p)
If so, the best standards for 3D gaming on TV , so far, were available before 1.4. That's definitely worth noting in this whole ordeal. HDMI 1.4 strictly brings better standards for movies and broadcast only.

Gamers with 1.3 HDMI AVRs might be interested to know this...
obveron is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 73 Old 11-23-2010, 03:19 PM
Advanced Member
 
BlackShark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Montpellier, France
Posts: 582
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Indeed Checkerboard 1080p beats 720p frame packed.
Especially since checkerboard should use 5-point sampling to create the checkerboard out of a real stereo1080p frame.

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)

BlackShark is offline  
post #63 of 73 Old 11-23-2010, 03:23 PM
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 19,369
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by obveron View Post

I suppose thats true, but still it's good to know what's the best. Alot of people are saying 720p is the best gamers can do right now.

I know that for the PS3 and games off of a 3D BD, FP'd 720P was choosen because that was the limit of the Cell BE's processing power. It can't do 1080x60P. It just isn't powerful enough.

Quote:


Also isn't 1080p SBS supported on older HDMi standards (pre 1.4)?
(not mention 1080p checkerboard which also beats framepacked 720p)
If so, the best standards for 3D gaming on TV , so far, were available before 1.4. That's definitely worth noting in this whole ordeal. HDMI 1.4 strictly brings better standards for movies and broadcast only.

Gamers with 1.3 HDMI AVRs might be interested to know this...

It's isn't just the bandwidth AFAIK. There is also the EDID to deal with.
Lee Stewart is offline  
post #64 of 73 Old 11-23-2010, 05:28 PM
Member
 
supernoob's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
This thread makes me and . I've been thinking about buying a 3DTV because I can afford one now and 3D is awesome, but 1080p 60 didn't cross my mind. No way will I buy a TV now that will be obsolete in 2 years.

On the other hand, my career is on the rise and in two more years I will be able to afford a supremely massive 3DTV (projector or whatever) when 1080p 60 is supported.
supernoob is offline  
post #65 of 73 Old 11-23-2010, 05:33 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
walford's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 16,789
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
All HDMI 1.4a 3D formats can be transmitted by any HDMI 3D transmitter chip and can be received and passed through any A/V receiver that pases though what it receivs. Howver, only the HDMI 1.4a packed double buffer 3D format, can have the audio content can be removed and processed with an HDMI 1.4a receiver.
walford is offline  
post #66 of 73 Old 11-23-2010, 10:29 PM
Senior Member
 
scarabaeus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posts: 319
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post
I sincerely doubt you could ever see any difference between those two numbers.
Also, for this kind of bandwidth calculation, you need to use the total timing size, including blanking. For 720p, this is 1650x750; 1080i/p have 2200x1125 (this is per frame, so there's 30 per second for 1080i, and 60 per second for 1080p): 1650*750*60=2200*1125*30, so 720p has exactly the same bandwidth requirement as 1080i.
scarabaeus is offline  
post #67 of 73 Old 11-24-2010, 05:33 AM
Senior Member
 
obveron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 409
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
OK, but I was just referring to what LOOKS better on screen, regardless of bandwidth. 1080p SBS or T/B or checkerboard offer more resolution on screen than framepacked 720p. Checkerboard is particularly better from my understanding.

Those were available formats before HDMI 1.4. So in reality, 3D gamers shoudn't have had to wait for HDMI 1.4, it has offered nothing better.
What we had before 720p framepacking was just as good, if not better. This is why the Xbox 360 has not needed HDMi 1.4 for 3D. Because it just uses SBS and that's not any worse than 720p framepacked, and SBS can also work over component, vga, dvi etc.

Now, what the consoles can actually render is a different story. Obviously both the PS3 and the 360 struggle to render 720p at decent frame rates in 2D, let alone 3D.
But that doesn't make this discussion moot.


As far as I can tell, PC gamers using 3DTV play might benefit slightly from using 1080p SBS rather than framepacked 720p.
obveron is offline  
post #68 of 73 Old 11-24-2010, 07:14 AM
 
icester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,175
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by obveron View Post

OK, but I was just referring to what LOOKS better on screen, regardless of bandwidth. 1080p SBS or T/B or checkerboard offer more resolution on screen than framepacked 720p. Checkerboard is particularly better from my understanding.

Those were available formats before HDMI 1.4. So in reality, 3D gamers shoudn't have had to wait for HDMI 1.4, it has offered nothing better.
What we had before 720p framepacking was just as good, if not better. This is why the Xbox 360 has not needed HDMi 1.4 for 3D. Because it just uses SBS and that's not any worse than 720p framepacked, and SBS can also work over component, vga, dvi etc.

Now, what the consoles can actually render is a different story. Obviously both the PS3 and the 360 struggle to render 720p at decent frame rates in 2D, let alone 3D.
But that doesn't make this discussion moot.


As far as I can tell, PC gamers using 3DTV play might benefit slightly from using 1080p SBS rather than framepacked 720p.

PC Games have no limitation and can reader at 4K UHD 3D Stereo using dual nVidia QUATRO professional adapters.

Mathew Orman
icester is offline  
post #69 of 73 Old 11-24-2010, 08:53 AM
Senior Member
 
obveron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 409
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
ok, i'm talking about how to best play PC games on current 3DTVs.
obveron is offline  
post #70 of 73 Old 11-24-2010, 11:34 AM
 
icester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,175
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by obveron View Post

ok, i'm talking about how to best play PC games on current 3DTVs.

DLP TV HD 1080p 60 Hz will give you 30 Hz per eye
ghost free performance.

Mathew Orman
icester is offline  
post #71 of 73 Old 11-24-2010, 12:06 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
walford's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 16,789
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
The Mits 3D ready DLP TVs are 1080p 120Hz models and give you you 960x1080@ 60fps per eye when in 3D mode and the TVs them selves have no video crosstalk since the are so fast.
However, glases have video crosstalk problems. The New Xpand 103 glases have been reported to have a lot less crosstalk then the Mits IR glases in the Mits 3D kit.
walford is offline  
post #72 of 73 Old 11-24-2010, 12:48 PM
 
icester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,175
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

The Mits 3D ready DLP TVs are 1080p 120Hz models and give you you 960x1080@ 60fps per eye when in 3D mode and the TVs them selves have no video crosstalk since the are so fast.
However, glases have video crosstalk problems. The New Xpand 103 glases have been reported to have a lot less crosstalk then the Mits IR glases in the Mits 3D kit.

I was referring to non 3D ready DLP TVs running FULL HD 1920x1080p at 60Hz or 30 Hz per eye.

Mathew Orman
icester is offline  
post #73 of 73 Old 11-24-2010, 05:22 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 173
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Why not disassemble two of those RPTV's, and use a polarization preserving RP screen, maybe brighter bulb too. Are polarization preserving RP screens that bad? (heard so).

Maybe hardware frame lock wouldn't hurt either.
gain3 is offline  
Reply 3D Tech Talk

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off