The 3D via a HDMI 1.3 AV-Receiver Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 250 Old 09-12-2010, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

The 3D-1000 is designed to work with all 3D formats; frame packed and frame compatible. It converts both to the needed checkerboard that DLP RPTVs require. It's really just a 3D format converter.

The reason why the PS3 won't work when connected to your Denon is because the HDMI 1.3 RX Input chip doesn't recognize the signal that the PS3 is sending from it's now modified HDMI 1.3/1.4 TX output chip. Think of the HDMI RX and TX chips as language chips. They each have a list of languages that is embedded within them.

For example, before the 3D BD game upgrade was released, the PS3 spoke German. Your Denon can speak German, French, Spanish and English and can cross translate any of the programmed languages that reside in the HDMI RX (Input) chip. Now all of a sudden, Sony added the 3D BD game upgrade, your PS3 now speaks not only German but also Mandarin when it is in 3D BD game mode. Your Denon doesn't speak Mandarin so it doesn't understand what the PS3 in 3D BD mode is saying. It can't pass the signal from the HDMI RX chip into the receiver. There has to be an open communciation between the RX and the TX HDMI chips which isn't happening.

It does happen with the 3DC-1000 because it's HDMI RX chip does speak Mandarin.

Does that help to clarify what is going on?

YES and thank you! I take it this means my AVR speaks Chinese which my HDTiVo speaks w/the 3D signal that allows it to pass through.
So I surmise my only option for 3D BD Movies/games will be to buy a new receiver unless some inexpensive 3D 'splitter' comes out.
I'll have to think long about that since my 3808 was not cheap and isn't that old.

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post #92 of 250 Old 09-12-2010, 09:03 AM
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Lee's analogy is excellent I often though of using lanquages as analogies with resolutions as he has done but never actually tried to as he has done.
When a A/V receiver says it is "3D capable" it means that it will pass though HDMI 1.4 3D resolutions. And since Checkerboard from a PS3 is not a HDMI1.4a resolution a "3D" capable A/V receiver may or may not pass it through
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post #93 of 250 Old 09-12-2010, 09:06 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wryker View Post

YES and thank you! I take it this means my AVR speaks Chinese which my HDTiVo speaks w/the 3D signal that allows it to pass through.
So I surmise my only option for 3D BD Movies/games will be to buy a new receiver unless some inexpensive 3D 'splitter' comes out.
I'll have to think long about that since my 3808 was not cheap and isn't that old.

See EDIT/Addition I made concerning your TIVO. And from this post, it looks like you do understand now.

What you really need is what is on the Panasonic BDT300 and BDT350 3D BD players. It has dual HDMI outputs:




If you have a 1.4 AVR, then you use the MAIN output only. It sends both the 3D video and Audio (HD and Digital). The second HDMI output called SUB only sends the Audio (HD and Digital) and works in conjunction with the MAIN output. This allows you to attach two HDMI cables out from the player, the SUB goes to a 1.3 AVR for audio and the MAIN goes to the 3DTV for video. This way you can decode DTS-MA and Dolby TrueHD (HD) along with DD5.1 and DTS (Digital).

Someone is going to make a seperate box that does this. Maybe at CEDIA (2 weeks away) there will be an announcement or maybe at CES in January.

The "hassel" of having to switch audio and video seperately can be overcome by using a universal remote that can do macros
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post #94 of 250 Old 09-12-2010, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

See EDIT/Addition I made concerning your TIVO. And from this post, it looks like you do understand now.

What you really need is what is on the Panasonic BDT300 and BDT350 3D BD players. It has dual HDMI outputs:




If you have a 1.4 AVR, then you use the MAIN output only. It sends both the 3D video and Audio (HD and Digital). The second HDMI output called SUB only sends the Audio (HD and Digital) and works in conjunction with the MAIN output. This allows you to attach two HDMI cables out from the player, the SUB goes to a 1.3 AVR for audio and the MAIN goes to the 3DTV for video. This way you can decode DTS-MA and Dolby TrueHD (HD) along with DD5.1 and DTS (Digital).

Someone is going to make a seperate box that does this. Maybe at CEDIA (2 weeks away) there will be an announcement or maybe at CES in January.

The "hassel" of having to switch audio and video seperately can be overcome by using a universal remote that can do macros

Now I'm confused again by the prior post and yours. The adapter only accepts one input and one output. Unless my AVR can pass-thru the 3D signal I don't know what else to do since I have the HDTivo and PS3 as outputs to connect. An AVR has multiple inputs but the prior post says a 3D ready-AVR may or may 'not' pass it through!?!

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post #95 of 250 Old 09-12-2010, 09:47 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wryker View Post

Now I'm confused again by the prior post and yours. The adapter only accepts one input and one output. Unless my AVR can pass-thru the 3D signal I don't know what else to do since I have the HDTivo and PS3 as outputs to connect. An AVR has multiple inputs but the prior post says a 3D ready-AVR may or may 'not' pass it through!?!

OK, you have a total of 3 inputs to the 3DC-1000:

1. Denon AVR
2. HDTivo
3. PS3

You have already stated that the HDTivo will run through your Denon and transmit both HD and 3D from CBL/SAT. That leaves you with 2 inputs:

1. Denon AVR/HDTivo
2. PS3

You only have one input on the 3DC-1000. That is why I showed you that 4X1 HDMI switch. It expands the single input of the 3DC-1000 to 4 inputs. You only need 2. That leaves 2 for future expansion. The only issue at hand is will that switch accomodate the PS3. Is it's 7.5Gbps fast enough to handle the bandwith of the PS3 in both 3D BD game mode and 3D BD movie mode. I think it will but I am not 100% sure. When they introduced HDMI 1.4, it has the same max speed as 1.3 already had - 10.2Gbps. they didn't change the speed.

As far as that statement: "An AVR has multiple inputs but the prior post says a 3D ready-AVR may or may 'not' pass it through" it won't pertain to you. There has been wild speculation that when the PS3 receives it's 3D BD Movie upgrade it will have an output option that allows the PS3 to convert frame packed 1080x24P 3D BD info to Checkerboard 3d format. the Panasonic BDT300/350 has this feature. So for those DLP-RPTV owners that only have that player, you don't need a 3DC-1000 if all you intend to watch are 3D BDs.

IF the PS3 has that option (highly doubtful), you just don't select it.
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post #96 of 250 Old 09-12-2010, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

OK, you have a total of 3 inputs to the 3DC-1000:

1. Denon AVR
2. HDTivo
3. PS3

You have already stated that the HDTivo will run through your Denon and transmit both HD and 3D from CBL/SAT. That leaves you with 2 inputs:

1. Denon AVR/HDTivo
2. PS3

You only have one input on the 3DC-1000. That is why I showed you that 4X1 HDMI switch. It expands the single input of the 3DC-1000 to 4 inputs. You only need 2. That leaves 2 for future expansion. The only issue at hand is will that switch accomodate the PS3. Is it's 7.5Gbps fast enough to handle the bandwith of the PS3 in both 3D BD game mode and 3D BD movie mode. I think it will but I am not 100% sure. When they introduced HDMI 1.4, it has the same max speed as 1.3 already had - 10.2Gbps. they didn't change the speed.

As far as that statement: "An AVR has multiple inputs but the prior post says a 3D ready-AVR may or may 'not' pass it through" it won't pertain to you. There has been wild speculation that when the PS3 receives it's 3D BD Movie upgrade it will have an output option that allows the PS3 to convert frame packed 1080x24P 3D BD info to Checkerboard 3d format. the Panasonic BDT300/350 has this feature. So for those DLP-RPTV owners that only have that player, you don't need a 3DC-1000 if all you intend to watch are 3D BDs.

IF the PS3 has that option (highly doubtful), you just don't select it.

Thanks for the information however since no one has yet to confirm they have a set-up that works for multiple sources like my need and equipment I'll hold off on buying anything until the PS3 gets the update and then I'll see what works and doesn't (or if someone else has the same/similar set-up and has a working configuration).

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post #97 of 250 Old 09-12-2010, 07:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wryker View Post

Thanks for the information however since no one has yet to confirm they have a set-up that works for multiple sources like my need and equipment I'll hold off on buying anything until the PS3 gets the update and then I'll see what works and doesn't (or if someone else has the same/similar set-up and has a working configuration).

What magical solution are you expecting from next months PS3 3D BD movie upgrade?
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post #98 of 250 Old 09-13-2010, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

What magical solution are you expecting from next months PS3 3D BD movie upgrade?

Nothing "magical" at all - just wait to see what other people do with their set up since I know many people have the same AVR as I, HDTivo, and a PS3 so I'll see if anyone comes up with a workable solution before spending big coin on anything new.

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post #99 of 250 Old 09-15-2010, 09:16 PM
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I went thru all 4 pages, but couldnt figure out if theres a solution for this or not. My setup.

bd-c5900/ps3/360/uverse STB/htpc -> HK AVR254-> PN50c7000
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post #100 of 250 Old 09-16-2010, 07:08 AM
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I ve read all 4 pages of this topic but can t find a answer:

I own a Marantz AV8003 receiver with a option in the settings that says HDMI THROUGH. I also own the PS3. Will it be possible with this receiver to connect a 3d display to my Marantz and enjoy 3d? Or do a need a player such as the Panasonic BTD300?
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post #101 of 250 Old 09-16-2010, 01:57 PM
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if you just want the tv speaker on samsung a750 serie...if you plug blu-ray to 3d adapter to gefen to tv does the tv speaker will work??

thanks....

update....now my tv speaker work...with the 3dc-1000+gefen+HL61A750...
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post #102 of 250 Old 09-16-2010, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

What magical solution are you expecting from next months PS3 3D BD movie upgrade?

I have a SC-25 AVR (HDMI 1.3) and my comcast box and ps3 goes into it as well as my samsung c7900 (dual hdmi's).

My ps3 plays 3d games fine, and my comcast box does 3d tv fine.. but the samsung won't play 3d movies fine without me hooking up dual hdmi's.

Now i haven't read the whole thread but that sounds weird. I am also waiting to see if hte PS3 3D movie update allows for me to play 3d movies with my HDMI 1.3 receiver.
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post #103 of 250 Old 09-18-2010, 06:10 AM
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would it be possible to collect a rough list of TVs that allow for 3d GAMING to be displayed via hdmi 1.3 receivers? I do not think I would be the sole representation of people who don't really care about 3d movies, but is excited about 3d gaming.

So far... panny vt25... right?
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post #104 of 250 Old 09-18-2010, 08:13 AM
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My samsung pnc8000 does. Even an option for that in the options but not sure what it does.
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post #105 of 250 Old 09-18-2010, 11:48 AM
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The Samsung 3D TVs and all 3D ready RP DLPs support Checkerboard 3D format from PS3 games. The Panasonic 3D TVs do not and I don't beleive the Sony's do either
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post #106 of 250 Old 09-20-2010, 03:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanderdvd View Post

I ve read all 4 pages of this topic but can t find a answer:

I own a Marantz AV8003 receiver with a option in the settings that says HDMI THROUGH. I also own the PS3. Will it be possible with this receiver to connect a 3d display to my Marantz and enjoy 3d? Or do a need a player such as the Panasonic BTD300?

No ideas anyone?
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post #107 of 250 Old 09-20-2010, 04:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanderdvd View Post

I ve read all 4 pages of this topic but can t find a answer:

I own a Marantz AV8003 receiver with a option in the settings that says HDMI THROUGH. I also own the PS3. Will it be possible with this receiver to connect a 3d display to my Marantz and enjoy 3d? Or do a need a player such as the Panasonic BTD300?

Are you talking about this?

HDMI ASPECT
Set HDMI ASPECT in accordance with the screen
size of the television connected to this unit.
Select THROUGH or 16:9NORM using the 1 or 2
cursor buttons.
THROUGH:
Output is in the same screen size as the input.
16:9 NORM:
Output includes black bands on the left and right of
the television screen.
Notes:
This setting is enabled only when a 480i/576i signal
is input and HDMI RESOLUTION is set to other
than THROUGH, or when a 480p/576p signal is
input.
The aspect ratio cannot be changed when the input
video signal is 720p or 1080i.
This setting depends on network settings when a
network is selected.

Page 37

http://us.marantz.com/AV8003_DFU_U_EN.pdf

If so, that isn't going to help with 3D bluray, either games or movies
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post #108 of 250 Old 09-20-2010, 05:39 AM
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thxz for your reply Lee.

So no 1.3 HDMI receiver owners will be able to have 3d when connecting a 3d capable display to the receiver?

Only option is to get eg. the Pana 350?
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post #109 of 250 Old 09-20-2010, 05:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanderdvd View Post

thxz for your reply Lee.



Quote:
So no 1.3 HDMI receiver owners will be able to have 3d when connecting a 3d capable display to the receiver?

For 3D games and movies from Bluray - pretty much.

Quote:
Only option is to get eg. the Pana 350?

Or the 300 if you want to have HD audio (DTS-MA and Dolby TrueHD)

Have you given Marantz a call and discussed this with them? That is a very expensive piece of equipment (IMO).
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post #110 of 250 Old 09-20-2010, 06:40 AM
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3D Checkerboard format from your PS3 uses 1080p/60 resolution.
From the manual it appears that 16:9 HDMI Auto Through mode should work.
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post #111 of 250 Old 09-20-2010, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

3D Checkerboard format from your PS3 uses 1080p/60 resolution.
From the manual it appears that 16:9 HDMI Auto Through mode should work.


I dont understand......sorry

Should I give Marantz a call like Lee said maybe
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post #112 of 250 Old 09-20-2010, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

3D Checkerboard format from your PS3 uses 1080p/60 resolution.
From the manual it appears that 16:9 HDMI Auto Through mode should work.

But the PS3 uses the 720p frame packed for games. Avatar the game itself is programmed for checkerboard, but there's no guarantee that the other games will be, and I doubt the Sony games will.

My 1.3 AVR (pioneer something 919) plays PS3 3D games; I doubt it will play 3D blu rays but I'll find out tomorrow for sure.
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post #113 of 250 Old 09-20-2010, 11:04 AM
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My error I guess I thought that the PS3 used 720p frame sequential format when not using 3D Checkerboard mode,
The games discussed in the following link are no available:

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/04/15/3d...via-purchases/
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post #114 of 250 Old 09-21-2010, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THE DU3C3 View Post

There is no way to watch 3D Blu-ray through a HDMI 1.3 AVR. As soon as you try to start the movie it automatically reverts to the 2D version of the film. The chipset in the AVR cannot process the 3D codec.



This is not entirely true in my case. Although I don't have everything 100% either.

I am processing 3D Blu-ray via PS3 (fw update 3.50) and I can process 3D through my Yamaha 1.3 HDMI receiver (which routes to the Mitsu 3d adapter then to my tv). But I cannot get any sound. 3D Video works fine however.

If I instruct the receiver to send audio to both the amp + Tv I can get the tv speakers to play the audio but of course only 2 channel. It also causes the video to skip and not play smoothly. If I go back and set HDMI audio to receiver only, the video doesn't skip but no audio. No audio is even being sent to the receiver.

Thoughts?


edit- to further elaborate on this "no sound but 3d video is fine issue"-

When playing the Disney 3D Blu-ray demo disc via PS3 with 3.5 FW,
routed as such - PS3 > 1.3 AVR > 3DC-1000 > 3D TV

when checking the signal info from the receiver (the front panel shows no audio being sent) - but the "Signal Info" screen states-


Format - (Blinking) PCM , ---, PCM, No Signal, PCM, ---, No Signal, etc.
Channel - (Blinking) 3/2/0.1, ---, etc
Sampling Freq. - (Blinking) 48kHz, ---, etc
Bitrate (solid) ---


IN - 1080p
OUT - 1080p

edit 2-

By limiting the ps3 display output to 720 I am able to play the disney 3d demo with SOUND , but no 3d video..

Too bad I cannot manually set the PS3 to enable 3D display.. you have to go through the Automatic command which then it will set the res at 1080... wtf.. sony.. If I were able to set the display to 720 AND enable 3D display....
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post #115 of 250 Old 09-21-2010, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

For 3D games and movies from Bluray - pretty much.

I'm playing 3D games via PS3 through my 1.3 HDMI receiver just fine. What are you saying is the issue? 3D games on Blu-ray? Everything I'm playing so far has been hdd based off of the PSN. And it works flawlessly in 3D.
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post #116 of 250 Old 09-21-2010, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by illthreat View Post

I'm playing 3D games via PS3 through my 1.3 HDMI receiver just fine. What are you saying is the issue? 3D games on Blu-ray? Everything I'm playing so far has been hdd based off of the PSN. And it works flawlessly in 3D.

I play games just fine as well, but I don't have any 1080p 3d game demos. I am wondering if thats where my issue lies, trying to watch a 1080p 3d movie. I wish Sony would let me state that my TV is only a 720p3d TV and then see if it would work that way.
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post #117 of 250 Old 09-21-2010, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrok View Post

I play games just fine as well, but I don't have any 1080p 3d game demos. I am wondering if thats where my issue lies, trying to watch a 1080p 3d movie. I wish Sony would let me state that my TV is only a 720p3d TV and then see if it would work that way.


Can you not simply un-check 1080 from your display options menu via PS3?

I'm not sure I follow your "try playing a 1080 3d game" statement.

Sony knocked down their 3d res to 720. Although I believe Super Star Dust was 1080p prior to that happening (regardless it's 720p now). I'm not sure which games are what resolution b/c I'm upconverting to 1080 anyway through my avr.
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post #118 of 250 Old 09-21-2010, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by illthreat View Post

Can you not simply un-check 1080 from your display options menu via PS3?

I'm not sure I follow your "try playing a 1080 3d game" statement.

Sony knocked down their 3d res to 720. Although I believe Super Star Dust was 1080p prior to that happening. I'm not sure which games are what resolution b/c I'm upconverting to 1080 anyway through my avr.

So there aren't any 1080p 3d video games? Ok that makes me feel better.

And no, the only way to get 3D recognized by the PS3 is to do the "automatic" resolution settings in the Display options. If you modify that at all your 3d games will only play in 2d and your 3d movies will play in 2d because the system doesn't give you the option to select your "3d" resolutions independant of your 2d video resolutions.
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post #119 of 250 Old 09-21-2010, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrok View Post

So there aren't any 1080p 3d video games? Ok that makes me feel better.

And no, the only way to get 3D recognized by the PS3 is to do the "automatic" resolution settings in the Display options. If you modify that at all your 3d games will only play in 2d and your 3d movies will play in 2d because the system doesn't give you the option to select your "3d" resolutions independant of your 2d video resolutions.

I just ran into the same problem.. WHY on earth can't sony simply allow us to select manually that we have a 3d display. Then we could choose 720 and 3d.

I just set it to 720 and I had sound on the blu ray which leads me to believe it's a limitation on the ps3. Hence why they limited the 3d down to 720.
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post #120 of 250 Old 09-21-2010, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrok View Post

If you modify that at all your 3d games will only play in 2d and your 3d movies will play in 2d because the system doesn't give you the option to select your "3d" resolutions independant of your 2d video resolutions.

ps. I believe all 3D games are 720 now.

I can play games through my 1.3 AVR just fine. (I'm guessing because they are forcing the ps3 to output 720 3d.)

I cannot play 3d blu-ray (1080) because the ps3 sees 1080 and forces it to stay there. Once the 3d is active, I lose all audio. (not enough bandwidth? AVR not 3d capable?, HDMI not high speed?)

Therefore I can play 720 3d and have audio, but not play 1080 3d (blu-ray) and have audio.


Am I making sense or just confusing myself further?

Would us folks with 1.3 AVR's be able to play 3d Blu-ray if we could limit teh res to 720 and manually select 3d display type?
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