The 3D via a HDMI 1.3 AV-Receiver Thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 250 Old 05-24-2010, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys!

I'm planning to buy a Samsung 3D TV.
I already own a Onkyo TX 805 av-receiver and I want to keep it.

Is there any possibility to watch 3D movies via a HDMI 1.3 av-receiver?
I don't need to loop through the hd-sound. Dolby or DTS would be fine.


Thanks in advance!
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post #2 of 250 Old 05-24-2010, 01:40 PM
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I'm also wondering what people have found out about this situation. I know it's possible with the L/R Comcast 3D but for people who have the Samsung combo with MvA have you guys tried playing through an Onkyo receiver? I have the 707 and Onkyo didn't even make a 3D version of it so there is no upgrade path for me. I might have to get a 1.4 splitter or something when I go 3D...
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post #3 of 250 Old 05-24-2010, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrManson View Post

Hey guys!

I'm planning to buy a Samsung 3D TV.
I already own a Onkyo TX 805 av-receiver and I want to keep it.

Is there any possibility to watch 3D movies via a HDMI 1.3 av-receiver?
I don't need to loop through the hd-sound. Dolby or DTS would be fine.


Thanks in advance!

There is no way to watch 3D Blu-ray through a HDMI 1.3 AVR. As soon as you try to start the movie it automatically reverts to the 2D version of the film. The chipset in the AVR cannot process the 3D codec. Your options are to use the analog out from the player to your AVR and run the HDMI directly to the TV. Or you could pickup one of the Panasonic players and utilize the dual HDMI outputs. Otherwise you will have to upgrade to a 1.4 AVR.
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post #4 of 250 Old 05-24-2010, 02:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by THE DU3C3 View Post

Your options are to use the analog out from the player to your AVR and run the HDMI directly to the TV.

Assumed I would plug the HDMI directly to the TV and a digital optical audio cable to my avr, would it be synchronous?
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post #5 of 250 Old 05-24-2010, 03:05 PM
 
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That was my problem,bought a 3d blu ray player with 2 hdmi outs one for sound the other 3d video.
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post #6 of 250 Old 05-24-2010, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LORDLICH View Post

That was my problem,bought a 3d blu ray player with 2 hdmi outs one for sound the other 3d video.

but now everything is fine?
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post #7 of 250 Old 05-24-2010, 03:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MrManson View Post

but now everything is fine?

Yes it is working, the splitter might not work that is why I just decided to buy the panasonic 350,comes with wireless dongle demo disc and once you set up the wireless update asap.
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post #8 of 250 Old 05-24-2010, 11:38 PM
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Are you sure there's "no way" to do it? I know at least some of the players let you force 3D mode. The receiver might not be able to pass say frame sequential, but side by side and checkerboard should pass. I know I've sent checkerboard through my PC through my 1.3 HDMI Yamaha to my Samsung DLP.
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post #9 of 250 Old 05-25-2010, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BioSehnsucht View Post

Are you sure there's "no way" to do it? I know at least some of the players let you force 3D mode. The receiver might not be able to pass say frame sequential, but side by side and checkerboard should pass. I know I've sent checkerboard through my PC through my 1.3 HDMI Yamaha to my Samsung DLP.

Sure the other 3D formats will work, but there is no way of converting the frame sequential 3D Blu-ray into side-by-side or checkerboard. So as far as 3D Blu-ray is concerned you need to use the options I've already mentioned.
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post #10 of 250 Old 05-25-2010, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THE DU3C3 View Post

Sure the other 3D formats will work, but there is no way of converting the frame sequential 3D Blu-ray into side-by-side or checkerboard. So as far as 3D Blu-ray is concerned you need to use the options I've already mentioned.


Actually, the Panasonic 3D Blu-ray players will convert the frame sequential 3D to checkerboard. This how those of us with DLP 3D ready televisions are able to view 3D Blu-ray without a converter.
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post #11 of 250 Old 05-25-2010, 01:35 PM
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yes, thank god for Panasonic. They should get all out business when we decide to upgrade from our dlp's.
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post #12 of 250 Old 05-25-2010, 06:06 PM
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Stupid Onkyo not releasing an update to the 707
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post #13 of 250 Old 05-26-2010, 07:06 AM
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great thread.

Can some tell me, how do these dual HDMI blu-ray players work. Can I seperate the audio and video signals. Can I bitstream HD audio to a 1.3 Receiver, while sending framepacked (sequential) 3D video to a 1.4 3DTV?

Edit: Did some reading, to answer my own question, yes it works, that's exactly the point of the dual hdmi player.

only question now, is cost.
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post #14 of 250 Old 05-26-2010, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obveron View Post

great thread.

Can some tell me, how do these dual HDMI blu-ray players work. Can I seperate the audio and video signals. Can I bitstream HD audio to a 1.3 Receiver, while sending framepacked (sequential) 3D video to a 1.4 3DTV?

Edit: Did some reading, to answer my own question, yes it works, that's exactly the point of the dual hdmi player.

only question now, is cost.

I'm quite curious about this myself - is there any chance that the sound and video might not remain synched by having the two separate outputs? I realize receivers can help compensate difference, but I'd rather not have to mess with that - and I'd like to maintain my lossless HD-Audio.
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post #15 of 250 Old 05-28-2010, 11:08 AM
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I don't have the player to confirm. But seeing as the Panasonic DMP-BDT350 is designed to have dual HDMI outputs for the specific purpose of sending video directly to a HDMI 1.4 display, and audio directly to a HDMI 1.3 receiver. I'd say they're in sync. Otherwise Panasonic would have failed to accomplish the entire purpose of having the dual HDMI outputs.

See here: http://bluray-players.net/panasonic/...bdt350-review/

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluray-players.net View Post


With the DMP-BDT350, you can send the high-bandwidth 3D video directly to the display and the audio directly to the AV receiver. It seems like the best option if you don’t plan on buying a new HDMI 1.4 receiver.


Also read here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1231167
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post #16 of 250 Old 06-07-2010, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrManson View Post

Assumed I would plug the HDMI directly to the TV and a digital optical audio cable to my avr, would it be synchronous?

While it would be synchronous, you would of course lose your HD audio. You'd just get plain vanilla AC3 or DTS.
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post #17 of 250 Old 06-07-2010, 10:50 AM
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Official thread regarding Sony's first HDMI 1.4-compatible A/V receiver is here. Appears to be shipping now.
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post #18 of 250 Old 06-07-2010, 06:07 PM
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If anyone needs to know how to use the Xonar HDAV 1.3 and Arcsoft TMT3 with 3D Plugin to provide both 3D and Lossless Audio through an HDMI 1.3 receiver PM ME!

I am about 90% sure I have a solution that does not require the purchase of additional specialized components.
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post #19 of 250 Old 06-07-2010, 07:15 PM
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Hi,

Longtime reader, first post. I had the same dilema. The new 3D Samsungs have an Audio Return Channel. This can be used to send the lossless HD audio from the TV to the receiver and plug the 3D player directly to the hdmi 1.4 input TV. Then use a third hdmi cable from the AVR to the TV.

My 3D player is enroute so I haven't been able to test it but will try soon. I've been assured this set up will work.
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post #20 of 250 Old 06-07-2010, 07:24 PM
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Peter,
Why are not willing to provide your solution to all of us on this forum?
I never send or recieve PMs on this or any other fourm.
I admit that sometimes my solutions are wrong but I am certainy willing to admit that to all fourm members.
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post #21 of 250 Old 06-09-2010, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

Peter,
Why are not willing to provide your solution to all of us on this forum?
I never send or recieve PMs on this or any other fourm.
I admit that sometimes my solutions are wrong but I am certainy willing to admit that to all fourm members.

I wanted to have someone test the solution before I posted it on the forums. I was also short on time when I made the post so I did not have enough time to type my proposed solution anyway. I have a bit of free time now so here is my solution for anyone who wishes to try it:

Components needed:
-HDMI 1.4 3DTV, or 3D Vision compatible display (DLP, 120Hz input monitor, etc) and compatible glasses
-HDMI 1.3 Receiver with DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD support
-Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 series audio card
-Two HDMI cables or one DVI>HDMI cable and one HDMI cable depending on GPU model
-Arcsoft TMT 3 with 3D plugin
-second HDMI source component

Configure your system using the following diagram:



Arcsoft TMT 3D Plugin settings:
-If using HDMI 1.4 3DTV, or NVIDIA 3D Vision LCD or DLP using the 3D Vision glasses set TMT 3D to option 2 "Page Flip/Frame Sequential".
-If using DLP 3DTV checkerboard along with DLP Link glasses use TMT 3D option 4 "Checkerboard".

Follow your 3DTV's instructions for enabling 3D mode when required.

Disclaimer:
The setup depicted in these instructions was designed by me. It has not been tested and is not guaranteed to work. If you choose to use this configuration think of yourself as a "beta tester". Any feedback you have would be appreciated so other AVS Forum members can benefit from your findings.
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post #22 of 250 Old 06-09-2010, 08:21 PM
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I have the Onkyo 805 and Samsung 58" 8000 series plasma. Unfortunately, the Onkyo will not pass the 3D signal from the Smasung 6900 Blu Ray player (or any player I'm guessing, but we'll see what the PS3 does...) You need to connect the HDMI cable directly to the TV, and do something else for audio.

The Panasonic player with 2 HDMI outputs is the best/easiest solution. The Samsung player has 7.1 channel analog outputs you can use to get uncompressed audio. Alternatively, that player will convert any of the lossless audio tracks to DTS optical output. I chose this route rather than mess with analog outs. I still use my PS3 for most blu ray playback, so can get uncompressed audio there. Only use the Samsung 6900 for 3D blu ray.


Honestly, I think the DTS is good enough for the majority of content. But, I'm considering getting the Onkyo 608 to simplify my setup. That way I can have the receiver do all HDMI switching with 3D and lossless audio, plus use the audio return instead of an optical out from the TV to the receiver. The TV's built in Netflix app works very well. Picture quality might even be better than PS3's version. It will suck to lose Audyssey MultiEQ though...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrManson View Post

Hey guys!

I'm planning to buy a Samsung 3D TV.
I already own a Onkyo TX 805 av-receiver and I want to keep it.

Is there any possibility to watch 3D movies via a HDMI 1.3 av-receiver?
I don't need to loop through the hd-sound. Dolby or DTS would be fine.


Thanks in advance!

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post #23 of 250 Old 06-09-2010, 09:08 PM
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According to Samsung their ARC feature will allow the lossless audio to pass through the TV (via ARC enabled HDMI #2) and out to a 1.3 AVR, but the catch is that the AVR must support ARC (Audio Return Channel). I will try it later tonight and post my findings.

This is straight from the owners manual of a Samsung C7000...

This product supports the 3D and ARC (Audio Return Channel) functions via an HDMI cable. Note that the ARC function is supported by the HDMI IN 2(ARC) port only.

The ARC function allows digital audio to output via the HDMI IN 2(ARC) port. It can be enabled only when the TV is connected with an audio receiver that supports the ARC function.


Jason
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post #24 of 250 Old 06-09-2010, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

According to Samsung their ARC feature will allow the lossless audio to pass through the TV ...

The passages you quote don't mention "lossless" audio (only "digital" audio) and don't say the audio is passing "though" the TV. Most TVs can produce digital audio from their ATSC tuners, and that could presumably pass out over an HDMI connection using the ARC, but that is not lossless audio (which is not carried by OTA TV), and that audio is not exactly going "through" the TV. So I'm skeptical about this.

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post #25 of 250 Old 06-10-2010, 01:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee View Post

The passages you quote don't mention "lossless" audio (only "digital" audio) and don't say the audio is passing "though" the TV. Most TVs can produce digital audio from their ATSC tuners, and that could presumably pass out over an HDMI connection using the ARC, but that is not lossless audio (which is not carried by OTA TV), and that audio is not exactly going "through" the TV. So I'm skeptical about this.

You may be correct, I tried it with an AVR that is not ARC supported and got nothing (not even 2 channel). The stupid thing here is that only the new 3D pass through AVR's offer ARC, at least from what I have found. I guess basically it allows you to use an HDMI cable from the tv vs. an optical/coaxial for audio. I do however recall reading an article (that I can no longer find, of course ) that stated that ARC would allow audio signals to pass through the tv and it was not just for the built in tuner.

Who knows... it's all so new .

Jason
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post #26 of 250 Old 06-10-2010, 10:03 PM
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I recently purchased a 3d TV (VT25) and to my surprise, my PS3 detected the fact that it supported 3d, even though I'm connecting it through a 1.3 HDMI receiver (Denon 1909).

I just finished playing Wipout HD, Motorstorm and Super Stardust HD in 3d, and everything worked perfectly. The TV detected the 3d signal and switched modes automatically.

I didn't expect it to work going through my receiver, but it did.
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post #27 of 250 Old 06-10-2010, 10:22 PM
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That's funny, because my PS3 screws up in 3D when switching through my Sony 5400ES receiver to my C7000 (either no picture or no sound, depending on the game). Works great directly connected, but I'm out of inputs! Anybody know of a 1.4 HDMI switch (preferably with remote, though an autoswitch would work)?
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post #28 of 250 Old 06-11-2010, 03:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by padlock View Post

I recently purchased a 3d TV (VT25) and to my surprise, my PS3 detected the fact that it supported 3d, even though I'm connecting it through a 1.3 HDMI receiver (Denon 1909).

This is what I would expect. 3D capability is written in display's EDID, in some bytes of the 1.4 VSDB (Vendor Specific Data Block) that in the previous 1.3 version were reserved. The receiver simply "routes" the VSDB from the display to the PS3, bytes it doesn't understand included.

Quote:
Originally Posted by padlock View Post

I just finished playing Wipout HD, Motorstorm and Super Stardust HD in 3d, and everything worked perfectly. The TV detected the 3d signal and switched modes automatically.

This is what I would expect, too. If the games are (as I suspect) Frame Sequential at 60Hz, the frame is compatible with 1.3 standard and the information about 3D is stored in some bytes of the InfoFrame that the receiver simply routes to the display, even if it doesn't understand. The display, though, understands it and plays it in 3D.

But the thing would be completely different if the 3D format were Frame Packing 1920x2205@24Hz (3D Blu-ray). In this case the receiver can't understand the video format and is not able to pass-through it.
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post #29 of 250 Old 06-11-2010, 04:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike5 View Post

This is what I would expect, too. If the games are (as I suspect) Frame Sequential at 60Hz, the frame is compatible with 1.3 standard and the information about 3D is stored in some bytes of the InfoFrame that the receiver simply routes to the display, even if it doesn't understand. The display, though, understands it and plays it in 3D.

But the thing would be completely different if the 3D format were Frame Packing 1920x2205@24Hz (3D Blu-ray). In this case the receiver can't understand the video format and is not able to pass-through it.

Would it not be possible for the PS3 (or any other 3d Blu-ray player for that matter) to convert the Frame Packed content into Frame Sequential before sending it out, thus allowing it to work through 1.3 receivers?

Isn't it possible to convert a 24Hz frame packing signal to 60 hz frame sequential without loosing any information?
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post #30 of 250 Old 06-11-2010, 04:32 AM
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It is certainly possible and it is what 3D software players (like PDVD, TMT, etc...) do in HTPCs.

There are two problems. The first is that if you use a HDMI you are limited to 720p@120Hz, because the bandwidth needed for 1080p@120Hz (297Mhz) is not supported by any HDMI chip (at least today).

The second is that AFAIK Sony doesn't foresee such a feature for PS3. I haven't heard no 3D blu-ray player either.
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