3D Shutter DLP Glasses: REVIEWS? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 517 Old 06-28-2010, 08:59 PM
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I have some X102's as well, and am wondering whether or not I made the right buying decision or not over the long term. Between their extra weight (quite a bit compared to Samsung SSG-2100AB style=Mits lookalike), and their proprietary battery style, I may not buy more X102's now. I think I may try one of the new Mits glasses when they arrive, and see if I like them better. I can always use both types with my Mits DLP.
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post #92 of 517 Old 06-29-2010, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisHawks View Post

I have some X102's as well, and am wondering whether or not I made the right buying decision or not over the long term. Between their extra weight (quite a bit compared to Samsung SSG-2100AB style=Mits lookalike), and their proprietary battery style, I may not buy more X102's now. I think I may try one of the new Mits glasses when they arrive, and see if I like them better. I can always use both types with my Mits DLP.

My major concern with the Mits/Samsung style glasses is that they don't look like they'd block much light from the sides. The Xpand glasses do a nice job with this.

Currently testing 3D with Sammy DLP, shutter glasses, and HTPC
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post #93 of 517 Old 06-29-2010, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisHawks View Post

I have some X102's as well, and am wondering whether or not I made the right buying decision or not over the long term. Between their extra weight (quite a bit compared to Samsung SSG-2100AB style=Mits lookalike), and their proprietary battery style, I may not buy more X102's now. I think I may try one of the new Mits glasses when they arrive, and see if I like them better. I can always use both types with my Mits DLP.

Has anyone confirmed that x102's work when an emitter is active? Thought I read a post that suggested the x102 loses sync in that situation.
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post #94 of 517 Old 06-29-2010, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by jjknatl View Post

Has anyone confirmed that x102's work when an emitter is active? Thought I read a post that suggested the x102 loses sync in that situation.

They work for me with an external emitter active.

Currently testing 3D with Sammy DLP, shutter glasses, and HTPC
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post #95 of 517 Old 06-29-2010, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taz291819 View Post

They work for me with an external emitter active.

Taz, what is your setup? Are you using the 3D TMT Plugin, Panasonic BDT350 or both systems? I have both of these and I can only get the BDT350 to work well as a checkerboard output for my system. When I use the TMT/3D Plugin with my Intel G45 graphics, my 3d fails even though the DLP link with the 102's is established and the Samsung 3D effect is enabled just fine.

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post #96 of 517 Old 06-29-2010, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhetman View Post

Taz, what is your setup? Are you using the 3D TMT Plugin, Panasonic BDT350 or both systems? I have both of these and I can only get the BDT350 to work well as a checkerboard output for my system. When I use the TMT/3D Plugin with my Intel G45 graphics, my 3d fails even though the DLP link with the 102's is established and the Samsung 3D effect is enabled just fine.

I have the TMT setup, but can't get it to work with 3D Blu-Rays. I'm thinking it's because my graphics card isn't up to par (ATI HD2900XT), thought technically, if I'm using CPU decoding only, it should work. 3D file playback works fine with TMT, just not 3D Blu-Ray.

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post #97 of 517 Old 06-29-2010, 04:33 PM
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What program/driver are you using to send the Checkerboard content from the TMT 3D plug in over HDMI to your TV?
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post #98 of 517 Old 06-29-2010, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taz291819 View Post

I have the TMT setup, but can't get it to work with 3D Blu-Rays. I'm thinking it's because my graphics card isn't up to par (ATI HD2900XT), thought technically, if I'm using CPU decoding only, it should work. 3D file playback works fine with TMT, just not 3D Blu-Ray.

When you say file play back works, is this from a ripped Blu-Ray 3D DVD? I did try a ripped version of my purchased "Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs" but it failed in the same way as playing it from the Blu-ray DVD player. What I did think was interesting is it does a great job of creating anaglyph version of the 3D Blu-Ray but not checkerboard.

As I mentioned in another post, I do have a Diamond 5850 graphic board sitting in its box waiting to be installed. The holdup is making room for the board which will require some rearranging of my hd's. Once I get the ambition, I may try that out.

I was hoping some one else using Intel G45 graphics was successful with the 3D Plugin since it is on the list of working graphics chips. So far no one has reported any success.

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post #99 of 517 Old 06-29-2010, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by bcterp View Post

I received a pair of X102SUD's. Tested them with a 3D game and some videos, no problems at all.

After further testing I retract my statement. Once again this substitute pair loses sync during dark scenes, just not as bad as the pair it replaced. I tested out some 3D videos from my PC. The replacement pair will consistently lose sync when a very dim image is on screen such as a small amount of white text on a black background. My original pair will never lose sync under the same conditions. I repeated this test several times to ensure it wasn't a fluke. I now have 3 pairs of X102's with varying degrees of performance; one pair never loses sync, the second pair constantly loses sync during any dim scene, the third pair loses sync only during very dim scenes as mentioned above. This is starting to piss me off, I would like a total of 4 pairs of glasses but can't imagine going through this crap to find 4 fully working pairs. I only have a 3 month old set and I can't imagine the problems that I'll run into once the bulb starts dimming. I think I'll be going the emitter route and get the starter pack from Mitsubishi.

Something to note is that this latest dysfunctional pair will not lose sync when viewing avatar the game or invincible tiger because (I presume) these games don't get dim enough. I wonder if a bunch of DLP owners have tested only these games for 3D performance and will be disappointed with their X102's once more content is available.
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post #100 of 517 Old 06-30-2010, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

What program/driver are you using to send the Checkerboard content from the TMT 3D plug in over HDMI to your TV?

Not sure I understand your question. The Arcsoft 3D plug-in basically turns TMT into "Stereoscopic Player", plus with 3D BD support. I can play a 3D file in TMT and it works just like playing it in Stereoscopic Player.

The problem is playing a 3D BD disc. It plays in 2D mode just fine, but if I try 3D mode, the audio is fine, but just a black screen for video.

Currently testing 3D with Sammy DLP, shutter glasses, and HTPC
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post #101 of 517 Old 06-30-2010, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhetman View Post

When you say file play back works, is this from a ripped Blu-Ray 3D DVD?

No, not file playback from a 3D BD, but an actual SbS or Top/Bottom file I've downloaded. Like a movie trailer or demo.

Currently testing 3D with Sammy DLP, shutter glasses, and HTPC
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post #102 of 517 Old 06-30-2010, 11:19 AM
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AFAIK you need a program like the Nvdia 3D player or 3DTV player to send 3D content to your 3D TV
See the following link and note at the very bottom that needs a program from a company such as ArcSoft to supply it with the 3D content.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/3d-vision-3d-blu-ray.html
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post #103 of 517 Old 06-30-2010, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

AFAIK you need a program like the Nvdia 3D player or 3DTV player to send 3D content to your 3D TV
See the following link and note at the very bottom that needs a program from a company such as ArcSoft to supply it with the 3D content.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/3d-vision-3d-blu-ray.html

No, you don't need that at all. That would basically say that TMT w/3D requires nvidia hardware, which isn't true. There are several with ATI cards that have it working now, albeit the 5000 series cards.

It still doesn't make sense, since the TMT software plays 3D media files just fine, and it looks great, just not 3D BD.

I got a response from Jason (whom works for Arcsoft) over on their forums. He basically said that the minimum requirements for ATI users are the 4000 series of cards, and why it doesn't work on cards below that isn't important. I like Jason, he helps out a lot of people (even on this site), but from a curious standpoint, I didn't care for that answer.

Currently testing 3D with Sammy DLP, shutter glasses, and HTPC
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post #104 of 517 Old 07-01-2010, 02:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcterp View Post

After further testing I retract my statement. Once again this substitute pair loses sync during dark scenes, just not as bad as the pair it replaced. I tested out some 3D videos from my PC. The replacement pair will consistently lose sync when a very dim image is on screen such as a small amount of white text on a black background. My original pair will never lose sync under the same conditions. I repeated this test several times to ensure it wasn't a fluke. I now have 3 pairs of X102's with varying degrees of performance; one pair never loses sync, the second pair constantly loses sync during any dim scene, the third pair loses sync only during very dim scenes as mentioned above. This is starting to piss me off, I would like a total of 4 pairs of glasses but can't imagine going through this crap to find 4 fully working pairs. I only have a 3 month old set and I can't imagine the problems that I'll run into once the bulb starts dimming. I think I'll be going the emitter route and get the starter pack from Mitsubishi.

Something to note is that this latest dysfunctional pair will not lose sync when viewing avatar the game or invincible tiger because (I presume) these games don't get dim enough. I wonder if a bunch of DLP owners have tested only these games for 3D performance and will be disappointed with their X102's once more content is available.

I agree. I received the replacement pairs Tuesday. after testing on the demo disk that came with the Panasonic BR player. 1 replacement is rock solid on the grand canyon clip. the other replacement is worse than the 1st two i bought. it lost sync on the train taking off scene and the white water rafting scene. my original pair just lost sync on the rafting scene. i tried it multiple time with the same results. The sad thing is these scenes are not dark at all.

I would like to go with the starter pack but i think the wife would give me more than the look if i spend more money on this 3D thing. especially when she sees the rainbow effect on the sides of the screen.
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post #105 of 517 Old 07-01-2010, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Dintkin View Post

I agree. I received the replacement pairs Tuesday. after testing on the demo disk that came with the Panasonic BR player. 1 replacement is rock solid on the grand canyon clip. the other replacement is worse than the 1st two i bought. it lost sync on the train taking off scene and the white water rafting scene. my original pair just lost sync on the rafting scene. i tried it multiple time with the same results. The sad thing is these scenes are not dark at all.

I would like to go with the starter pack but i think the wife would give me more than the look if i spend more money on this 3D thing. especially when she sees the rainbow effect on the sides of the screen.

I'm not asking too much am I? I'm new to 3D but I feel that if these glasses were to lose sync "only" a couple of during a movie that is not acceptable. When it happens it's very distracting and kills the immersive experience.

These glasses may work fine in a movie theater environment but it seems that dlp-link may not be robust enough to handle the wide range of home setups. In my case I had almost all the lights off, no CFL's and was sitting only slightly off center about 12 feet back.

I did look for the rainbow effect that has been mentioned but fortunately my pairs don't seem to have that problem.
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post #106 of 517 Old 07-01-2010, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taz291819 View Post

No, not file playback from a 3D BD, but an actual SbS or Top/Bottom file I've downloaded. Like a movie trailer or demo.

Ok, I downloaded some also and tried to play them. Got the same effects that I get with a 3D Bluray disk using the 3D Plugin, No 3D. Oh well...If there was a way I could play them with my Panasonic 3D player I could add them to my slim 3D library of 2 Disks.

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post #107 of 517 Old 07-01-2010, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by mhetman View Post

Ok, I downloaded some also and tried to play them. Got the same effects that I get with a 3D Bluray disk using the 3D Plugin, No 3D. Oh well...If there was a way I could play them with my Panasonic 3D player I could add them to my slim 3D library of 2 Disks.

This player works for me on my Mitz DLP:

http://www.3dtv.at/Products/Player/index_en.aspx
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post #108 of 517 Old 07-01-2010, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhetman View Post

Ok, I downloaded some also and tried to play them. Got the same effects that I get with a 3D Bluray disk using the 3D Plugin, No 3D. Oh well...If there was a way I could play them with my Panasonic 3D player I could add them to my slim 3D library of 2 Disks.

That is very odd, because clips play back perfectly for me in TMT and Stereoscopic Player. Try playing the clips in Stereoscopic Player, this will help nail down your issue. The trial version is available in the post directly above mine.

Currently testing 3D with Sammy DLP, shutter glasses, and HTPC
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post #109 of 517 Old 07-01-2010, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dintkin View Post

I agree. I received the replacement pairs Tuesday. after testing on the demo disk that came with the Panasonic BR player. 1 replacement is rock solid on the grand canyon clip. the other replacement is worse than the 1st two i bought. it lost sync on the train taking off scene and the white water rafting scene. my original pair just lost sync on the rafting scene. i tried it multiple time with the same results. The sad thing is these scenes are not dark at all.

I would like to go with the starter pack but i think the wife would give me more than the look if i spend more money on this 3D thing. especially when she sees the rainbow effect on the sides of the screen.

I have experimented to try and figure out the cause of the rainbow effect. I believe it is the interaction of the x102 with the DLP process. I've noted that the rainbow doesn't move on screen when you move closer to the TV and if you get close enough, far too close to actually watch TV, the rainbow is outside your field of view. So, it appears the rainbow shows up at a specific place on the screen which leads me to believe it is partially the DLP process to blame.

Also, the rainbow shows up anytime the glasses are on, regardless of source. Blocking the DLP-link receiver for a few minutes to force the glasses off seemed to cause the rainbow to gradually fade rather than disappear immediately, so I think it is more a result of the liquid crystal lens coupled with the DLP process rather than the shuttering action itself. I'm hoping that liquid crystal lenses of other glasses do not produce this effect as it is a major distraction.

Does anyone with non-DLP link shutter glasses see a prism/rainbow effect?

dintkin and bcterp, which DLP set do you have and which x102 do you have? the rainbow may be dependent upon either or both models. I have the Mits C9 and the SUD.

Regarding the glasses losing sync, one day the grand canyon raft scene works fine, the next day it loses sync. I've tried to reproduce conditions to force loss of sync on the good days and can't make it happen. Also, I've notced that the glasses maintain sync for about 5-6 seconds after losing the DLP-Link signal. So the initial scene causing the glasses to lose sync is likely a few seconds before sync is lost during the raft scene, possibly the reverse fly-over scene which is actually a fairly bright scene. Can a screen that is too bright, or at least too bright in certain areas of the screen, possibly interfere with dlp-link sync?
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post #110 of 517 Old 07-01-2010, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taz291819 View Post

No, you don't need that at all. That would basically say that TMT w/3D requires nvidia hardware, which isn't true. There are several with ATI cards that have it working now, albeit the 5000 series cards.

It still doesn't make sense, since the TMT software plays 3D media files just fine, and it looks great, just not 3D BD.

I got a response from Jason (whom works for Arcsoft) over on their forums. He basically said that the minimum requirements for ATI users are the 4000 series of cards, and why it doesn't work on cards below that isn't important. I like Jason, he helps out a lot of people (even on this site), but from a curious standpoint, I didn't care for that answer.

I stated "AFAIK you need a program like the Nvdia 3D player or 3DTV player to send 3D content to your 3D TV"

Thank you for pointing out that ATI also has as solution for user's with 4000 or higher series cards.

Mhetman's problem is that he currently using a 2900 series ATI card.
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post #111 of 517 Old 07-01-2010, 11:30 AM
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About 2% of people with recent genertion DLPs see the rainbow effect. It appears that displaying 3D content may increas the percentage of people who see it.
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post #112 of 517 Old 07-01-2010, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

About 2% of people with recent genertion DLPs see the rainbow effect. It appears that displaying 3D content may increas the percentage of people who see it.

A lot of this depends on the Colorwheel speed. Most of the "business grade" 3-D DLP models appear to be using the slower 2X mode, while the home theater 2D models use 4X or, in some cases 6X, speeds.
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post #113 of 517 Old 07-01-2010, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by walford View Post

About 2% of people with recent genertion DLPs see the rainbow effect. It appears that displaying 3D content may increas the percentage of people who see it.

It may be a DLP issue, period. But, I see the rainbow effect any time the glasses are turned on, even for 2D content. Also, I believe I see it even when the glasses are recently turned off while the lenses are slowly returning to green and no longer shuttering. I never see a rainbow when not wearing the glasses and neither does my wife. However, my wife also sees the rainbow with the glasses on. I'll try the viewsonics and some emitter glasses before I give up.
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post #114 of 517 Old 07-01-2010, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjknatl View Post

I have experimented to try and figure out the cause of the rainbow effect. I believe it is the interaction of the x102 with the DLP process. I've noted that the rainbow doesn't move on screen when you move closer to the TV and if you get close enough, far too close to actually watch TV, the rainbow is outside your field of view. So, it appears the rainbow shows up at a specific place on the screen which leads me to believe it is partially the DLP process to blame.

Also, the rainbow shows up anytime the glasses are on, regardless of source. Blocking the DLP-link receiver for a few minutes to force the glasses off seemed to cause the rainbow to gradually fade rather than disappear immediately, so I think it is more a result of the liquid crystal lens coupled with the DLP process rather than the shuttering action itself. I'm hoping that liquid crystal lenses of other glasses do not produce this effect as it is a major distraction.

Does anyone with non-DLP link shutter glasses see a prism/rainbow effect?

dintkin and bcterp, which DLP set do you have and which x102 do you have? the rainbow may be dependent upon either or both models. I have the Mits C9 and the SUD.

Regarding the glasses losing sync, one day the grand canyon raft scene works fine, the next day it loses sync. I've tried to reproduce conditions to force loss of sync on the good days and can't make it happen. Also, I've notced that the glasses maintain sync for about 5-6 seconds after losing the DLP-Link signal. So the initial scene causing the glasses to lose sync is likely a few seconds before sync is lost during the raft scene, possibly the reverse fly-over scene which is actually a fairly bright scene. Can a screen that is too bright, or at least too bright in certain areas of the screen, possibly interfere with dlp-link sync?

I have 4 102SUD's right now and all show the rainbow. my set is a Mits 65835. I was going to try to clean off the lower mirror(there is no lower mirror) just for kicks thinking it might be that, I have had the set for about 2 years so it might be a bit dirty.

I will have to move closer to the screen to see what that does.

Thank You

Dan
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post #115 of 517 Old 07-01-2010, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

I stated "AFAIK you need a program like the Nvdia 3D player or 3DTV player to send 3D content to your 3D TV"

Thank you for pointing out that ATI also has as solution for user's with 4000 or higher series cards.

Mhetman's problem is that he currently using a 2900 series ATI card.

Actually, I'm the one using the 2900 series card, which is why I can't play 3D BDs, so I think anyway.

Mhetman has an onboard G45, which is in the minimum requirements. I think he should try his 5000-series ATI card.

Currently testing 3D with Sammy DLP, shutter glasses, and HTPC
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post #116 of 517 Old 07-02-2010, 07:26 AM
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Was able to capture the rainbow in a photo. Would post but local uploads appear to be disabled.
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post #117 of 517 Old 07-02-2010, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregK View Post

A lot of this depends on the Colorwheel speed. Most of the "business grade" 3-D DLP models appear to be using the slower 2X mode, while the home theater 2D models use 4X or, in some cases 6X, speeds.

What is "business grade" as opposed to "home theater."
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post #118 of 517 Old 07-02-2010, 08:36 AM
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Business Grade (aka: classroom) typically refers to projectors that are optimized more towards a brighter image vs tweaking for optimal contrast. (This is desired for projecting large images in less than ideal lighting situations.) This typically done by including a white segment in the DLP colorwheel.

Colorwheel speeds also tend to be lower in classroom/business grade projectors when compared to home theater optimized projectors. A 2X speed colorwheel tends to be the norm for business grade models while 4X (and on occasion 6X) is the norm for home theater projectors.
The slower the colorwheel speed, the more likely one will see "rainbow" artifacts. To what degree varies from person to person.

To make matters more confusing, some manufacturers often neglect to list the colorwheel speed, leaving one to guess or rely on second hand testing to find out. Andrew Woods, who chairs the SD&A, has also had trouble getting colorwheel speeds. http://www.3dmovielist.com/projectors.html

I've had luck on occasion from the projector centeral website, but all of the specs for Viewsonics rarely are complete.
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post #119 of 517 Old 07-02-2010, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taz291819 View Post

That is very odd, because clips play back perfectly for me in TMT and Stereoscopic Player. Try playing the clips in Stereoscopic Player, this will help nail down your issue. The trial version is available in the post directly above mine.

Downloaded the trial version and I get exactly the same results. Must be an incompatibility with Intel G45 Graphics.

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post #120 of 517 Old 07-02-2010, 10:24 AM
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Anyone have experience with the optoma zd101 glasses?
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