XpanD X103 vs Monster Vision Max 3D Glasses!? - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 236 Old 11-10-2010, 10:53 AM
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Hi, fellow TVers. I just received the xPand x103 glasses and set it for Samsung UN46C9000. Here is my take on the glasses:


1. Easy to set up
2. Very comfortable especially with the extra nose pieces.
3. Space age case :-).
4. Works as advertised, at least with Samsung.
5. Comes with 3 batteries, common Cr2032.
6. Does 3D as advertised.

Now the bad news (at least for me):

7. No or at least very little improvement in ghosting.
8. No or at least very little improvement in brightness.
9. Head tilt still results in darkening, same as with my other glasses.

Conclusions: If you want or need universal glasses, especially to save money on not having to buy different sets for different TVs, these glasses are for you. In my opinion they perform exactly like the glasses that come with the Samsungs (and probably same for other brands, like Panasonic). If you are thinking that these glasses will improve on ghosting, brightness, or head tilt you will probably be disappointed, at least I was disappointed. I was hoping for improvement on these items, but I was not expecting it.

I tested by watching the US Open tennis tournament demo on N3D. I have watched this program about a million times. This broadcast gives me the worst ghosting problems of any 3D I have watched. I have always thought that ghosting would be less on a totally dedicated 3D channel. I did NOT test the glasses with the included Aliens vs Monsters disk that came with the TV. The ghosting issues for me have been the same with this disk. I also did not test the glasses with 3D conversion on non-3D channels.

I have seen many posts that try to blame ghosting on the glasses, content, TV, cosmic rays, Communism, etc., and my conclusion is ghosting is NOT a glasses problem, at least in the present technology.

I will probably keep the xPand glasses as I will be getting a new main Panasonic TV, when it is upgraded to, say, the "VT30" and the prices drop. I will give it about a year....

Frank (retired vidiot)
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post #62 of 236 Old 11-10-2010, 11:07 AM
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Anyone Interested In Monster Cable's MonsterVision 3D Glasses??

I am

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post #63 of 236 Old 11-10-2010, 11:42 AM
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Frank B,

thanks for the review? since the x103's cost less than the Samsung glasses I'd invest in them for another set

I didn't expect the glasses to resolve the head tilting issue, as that's a known issue with 3D on LED tv's in general
Shame that you didn't notice any difference in terms of ghosting

in terms of brightness I'd think that could be corrected with proper settings in the 3D menu. I have the un46c8000, and after tweaking settings I've very happy with the PQ of 3D and overall. I used the settings from the Home Theater Mag article
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post #64 of 236 Old 11-10-2010, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthJersey View Post

Frank B,

thanks for the review? since the x103's cost less than the Samsung glasses I'd invest in them for another set

I didn't expect the glasses to resolve the head tilting issue, as that's a known issue with 3D on LED tv's in general
Shame that you didn't notice any difference in terms of ghosting

in terms of brightness I'd think that could be corrected with proper settings in the 3D menu. I have the un46c8000, and after tweaking settings I've very happy with the PQ of 3D and overall. I used the settings from the Home Theater Mag article

North, I am quite happy with the PQ of 3D, etc., also. I just wish that I knew how Panasonic glasses get around head tilting problem. I guess that their glasses are not polarized.

Which issue of Home Theater Mag did you see the article about tweaking your 8000? I would like to try some of those settings on my 9000; maybe they will be different, but it would be interesting to try them out. If I cannot find the article, would it be too difficult to write the settings down or if there is a link on AVSforum could you direct me to it?

thanx, Frank
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post #65 of 236 Old 11-10-2010, 01:34 PM
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Link to Samsung calibration


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post #66 of 236 Old 11-10-2010, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Biba View Post

North, I am quite happy with the PQ of 3D, etc., also. I just wish that I knew how Panasonic glasses get around head tilting problem. I guess that their glasses are not polarized.

Which issue of Home Theater Mag did you see the article about tweaking your 8000? I would like to try some of those settings on my 9000; maybe they will be different, but it would be interesting to try them out. If I cannot find the article, would it be too difficult to write the settings down or if there is a link on AVSforum could you direct me to it?

thanx, Frank

Plasma and DLP sets do not dim when the head is tilted since the panel technology is not polarized. LCD sets do dim.
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post #67 of 236 Old 11-10-2010, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Biba View Post

North, I am quite happy with the PQ of 3D, etc., also. I just wish that I knew how Panasonic glasses get around head tilting problem. I guess that their glasses are not polarized.

Which issue of Home Theater Mag did you see the article about tweaking your 8000? I would like to try some of those settings on my 9000; maybe they will be different, but it would be interesting to try them out. If I cannot find the article, would it be too difficult to write the settings down or if there is a link on AVSforum could you direct me to it?

thanx, Frank

here's the article on the un46c8000 in HTM. Since the 9000 doesn't appear to have all the PQ options that the 8000 have, who knows if you'll be able to use all the settings
http://hometheatermag.com/3d-flat-pa...dtv/index.html
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post #68 of 236 Old 11-10-2010, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Biba View Post

North, I am quite happy with the PQ of 3D, etc., also. I just wish that I knew how Panasonic glasses get around head tilting problem. I guess that their glasses are not polarized.

Which issue of Home Theater Mag did you see the article about tweaking your 8000? I would like to try some of those settings on my 9000; maybe they will be different, but it would be interesting to try them out. If I cannot find the article, would it be too difficult to write the settings down or if there is a link on AVSforum could you direct me to it?

thanx, Frank

The Panasonic VT2x TV's is a PDP. The Samsung LED TV's are LCD. As all LCD's have polarizing filters on them the LCD glasses block the light that is polarized in one direction as it comes from the TV.
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post #69 of 236 Old 11-11-2010, 03:40 AM
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Hi to all.

Ghosting is not caused only by glasses but also by LCD screens that are too slow to change crystal position. That's the main reason why plasma screen is a bit better choice for 3D at this moment.

Tilting your head while watching TV also influences on 3D perception. The best 3D image is seen with straight head position. At this moment only Sony glasses don't dim the LCD TV image when tilting, however they produce large amount of ghosting when tilted. It seems that they use different lenses.

That was already said before, however I wanted to sum that in one post
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post #70 of 236 Old 11-11-2010, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthJersey View Post

here's the article on the un46c8000 in HTM. Since the 9000 doesn't appear to have all the PQ options that the 8000 have, who knows if you'll be able to use all the settings
http://hometheatermag.com/3d-flat-pa...dtv/index.html

Thanks, NJ. I think that the 9000 has all the PQ settings that the 8000 has. I did look at the setting changes, and I think that their recommendations are individualized. I probably will do my own calibrations and change the settings accordingly. But this is off topic for this thread on 3D glasses, so I will try to do a search on AVS to see what others are doing. I would love to get the service menu hack for this TV at least to see what is offered. Nice article, mainly a review of the 8000, and I am glad that they gave it a thumbs up review.
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post #71 of 236 Old 11-11-2010, 02:24 PM
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Is this a XpanD x103 thread only? No one Is curious on the Other 3D Glasses In the thread title. MonsterVision 3D???

Video Games, 3D, and Home Theater Forever! ^_^

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post #72 of 236 Old 11-11-2010, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Biba View Post

Hi, fellow TVers. I just received the xPand x103 glasses and set it for Samsung UN46C9000. Here is my take on the glasses:

................[
B]9. Head tilt still results in darkening, same as with my other glasses[/b].

................. (retired vidiot)

It is inherent when using LC shutter glasses with any LCD display since both the LCD display and the LC shutter glasses inherently require a polarizing layer. In the case of the Samsung LCD 3DTV and the Xpand X103 both include a horizontal polarizer and thus when you tilt your head you will always see a dimming effect. In fact when the glasses are rotated 90 degrees the TV image should go black. When using LC glasses with a plasma 3DTV you don't have this effect since plasma display technology does not require a polarizing later. In any case you cannot rotate you head very much and still maintain the correct 3D effect since the 3D technique uses a horizontal offset of the right and left images .

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post #73 of 236 Old 11-11-2010, 03:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyabusha View Post

Is this a XpanD x103 thread only? No one Is curious on the Other 3D Glasses In the thread title. MonsterVision 3D???

Are they available yet at retail?
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post #74 of 236 Old 11-11-2010, 04:13 PM
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Are they available yet at retail?

Not yet, and Monster has no Info on them. I was just wondering If anyone else has heard anything.

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post #75 of 236 Old 11-11-2010, 08:43 PM
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the monster vision max 3d were supposed to be out in sept, but thats monster for you, hopefully they will be out before black friday and at the latest xmas. im hoping to pick up at least 4 pair. the technology that these glasses have built in is way better than standard IR. theres no crosstalk and bleeding from other sources. i found this website months ago before monster partnered with them, theyre the ones that are supplying monster with the actual tech for the monster vision max 3d.

http://www.bitcauldron.com/index.html

if anyone has any other info about a release date, please let us know. Ive been waiting years for this tech to hit the market, lets hope they deliver on there product and at an affordable or reasonable price.
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post #76 of 236 Old 11-11-2010, 09:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rene.aric View Post

the monster vision max 3d were supposed to be out in sept, but thats monster for you, hopefully they will be out before black friday and at the latest xmas. im hoping to pick up at least 4 pair. the technology that these glasses have built in is way better than standard IR. theres no crosstalk and bleeding from other sources. i found this website months ago before monster partnered with them, theyre the ones that are supplying monster with the actual tech for the monster vision max 3d.

http://www.bitcauldron.com/index.html

if anyone has any other info about a release date, please let us know. Ive been waiting years for this tech to hit the market, lets hope they deliver on there product and at an affordable or reasonable price.

The prices have already been announced:

http://quejoder.com/2010/06/new-mons...h-any-3d-hdtv/
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post #77 of 236 Old 11-12-2010, 08:12 AM
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I noticed that the x103 turns on and off randomly even though pointed right at the TV. Sometimes it appears as though the TV picture is flickering, as in a shutter effect. I think I found the culprit; I have a fluorescent bulb in a table lamp right next to my sitting area. If I turn it off, the flickering and intermittent on/off sequence of the glasses never happens. This problem NEVER occurs with my Samsung brand glasses!

Motto: xPand does not like fluorescent. Samsung glasses coexist with fluorescent. Incandescent is not a problem for either glasses.

To Ron Jones: Thanks for the succinct explanation of head tilt/polarization.

Frank Biba
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post #78 of 236 Old 11-12-2010, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter0328 View Post

Plasma and DLP sets do not dim when the head is tilted since the panel technology is not polarized. LCD sets do dim.

Some of us unlucky DLP owners have static polarization rainbows (not the typical DLP rainbows) that appear with head tilt for some glasses, and the rainbow goes away with head tilt for other glasses, depending upon the orientation of the polarizer in the glasses. Shutter glasses are so much fun, huh?
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post #79 of 236 Old 11-12-2010, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rene.aric View Post

the monster vision max 3d were supposed to be out in sept, but thats monster for you, hopefully they will be out before black friday and at the latest xmas. im hoping to pick up at least 4 pair. the technology that these glasses have built in is way better than standard IR. theres no crosstalk and bleeding from other sources. i found this website months ago before monster partnered with them, theyre the ones that are supplying monster with the actual tech for the monster vision max 3d.

http://www.bitcauldron.com/index.html

if anyone has any other info about a release date, please let us know. Ive been waiting years for this tech to hit the market, lets hope they deliver on there product and at an affordable or reasonable price.


I called Monster today and they said it has been delayed until Dec. 15th in order to make changes for horizontal polarization support (original spec was for VP only).

Kevin

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post #80 of 236 Old 11-12-2010, 07:34 PM
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I called Monster today and they said it has been delayed until Dec. 15th in order to make changes for horizontal polarization support (original spec was for VP only).

Kevin

Thanks for the Info.

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post #81 of 236 Old 11-13-2010, 01:42 AM
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I called Monster today and they said it has been delayed until Dec. 15th in order to make changes for horizontal polarization support (original spec was for VP only).

Kevin
Thanks for contacting them, I looked at their site, but couldn't find anything about the glasses, Just a press release saying something about Sept, I should have just called them, . I have some more questions, So i'll find their contact info and get in touch with them on Monday. Now with the integration of both VP and HP, will it be the first universal 3d set of glasses? I'm not sure if the Xpand will do both VP and HP, but i think that these glasses will be a step above them.
I have a Samsung HL t7288w 72 in HDTV, and just like 500,000 other users with older 3d HDTV's, I dont want to upgrade to a new tv. I plan on integrating this into my HTPC. Does anybody know what the tranasmitter will be, Either 3d sync 3pin transmitters, or USB. Hopefully they give us the option to pick between them.

heres some info on the transmitters, http://www.bitcauldron.com/products/transmitters.html but in monsters press release, it says nothing about the actual transmitters that will be bundled with these glasses, thanks in advance
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post #82 of 236 Old 11-13-2010, 04:21 AM
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Here's what I found out for the 3D JVC thread although Ron Jones thinks this "universal" polarization support could hurt both types (i.e. - it would have been better to have a model for each type instead; but Yes a universal model):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post19478819

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post #83 of 236 Old 11-13-2010, 07:55 AM
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What does adding "HP" do?

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post #84 of 236 Old 11-14-2010, 06:58 PM
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Some display devices are polarized vertically (most micro display TV's today are), and some, like front projection are polarized horizontally (HP vs. VP).

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post #85 of 236 Old 11-15-2010, 03:51 PM
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A couple things I've noticed comparing the X103's to the Samsung glasses using my Mitsubishi DLP (73738):

There is less ghosting with the X103 glasses. Ghosting is pretty rare on my DLP but I did find a few scenes on 3D blu-rays and paused them to compare. Ghosting that is very obvious with the Samsung glasses is very faint with the X103 glasses.

The X103 glasses have a warmer tone to the colors. The Samsung glasses almost look like I turned down the "Color" setting several notches. Not a big deal but I do prefer the X103 glasses in this regard. I'm not sure if this would translate to a Samsung LCD or plasma.
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post #86 of 236 Old 11-16-2010, 08:06 AM
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Interesting, Xpand has stated that the X103s have a very fast response time the same as their X102s which reduces ghosting/crostalk.
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post #87 of 236 Old 11-16-2010, 10:39 AM
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I just received my XpanD X103 Glasses and have tested them on everything 3D I have on my Samsung 50 PN7000. The tiniting is alot brighter than the Glasses that come with the starter kit and there is a lot less ghosting. The biggest difference for me is COD Black Ops. So much ghosting/crosstalk with the starter kit glasses but with the X103, it looks like a different game. I know alot of people are on the fence about these as I was but, they really are that much better.
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post #88 of 236 Old 11-16-2010, 11:59 AM
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I've noticed a lot of ghosting on Motorstorm 3D, but that was due to parallax issues that can be adjusted by dialing the 3D effect down slightly.

In high contrast scenes of Black Ops, and even the Panny demo disc, there is some noticeable ghosting at times.

Once these arrive I'll post my findings. If anyone has the new rechargeable Panasonic glasses, please let us know how these compare to the old design, and Xpand.
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post #89 of 236 Old 11-17-2010, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

Interesting, Xpand has stated that the X103s have a very fast response time the same as their X102s which reduces ghosting/crostalk.

I think it's the lens design that allows some ghosting with the Xpand glasses. I've noticed that if I tilt my head down, the ghosting goes away.

Currently testing 3D with Sammy DLP, shutter glasses, and HTPC
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post #90 of 236 Old 11-21-2010, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonae View Post

I just received my XpanD X103 Glasses and have tested them on everything 3D I have on my Samsung 50 PN7000. So much ghosting/crosstalk with the starter kit glasses but with the X103, it looks like a different game. I know alot of people are on the fence about these as I was but, they really are that much better.

Could you do this test with original glasses and with the XPands:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1291751
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