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post #1 of 126 Old 10-05-2010, 03:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Those of you with Optoma HD66 or similar DLP Link projectors - Have you created your own 3D videos using twin camcorders? I'd like instruction on that final step: How to create or render a 120 Hz field sequential video from two separate 60 Hz (or 30 Hz even) camcorder sources.

I hoped Sony Vegas would do it, but I don't see that choice in it's menus. I've read Frank's cool thread on making home 3D video in side-by-side format, but DLP Link wants field sequential. So, anyone know how to render 120 Hz field sequential video?
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post #2 of 126 Old 10-05-2010, 04:18 PM - Thread Starter
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So must I render it in a side-by-side format, say totaling 2560 x 720, and use Nvidia 3D vision to separate it into field sequential on the fly?
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post #3 of 126 Old 10-05-2010, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrickMcKaha View Post

So must I render it in a side-by-side format, say totaling 2560 x 720, and use Nvidia 3D vision to separate it into field sequential on the fly?

Yes
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post #4 of 126 Old 10-09-2010, 08:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I've learned (and found) that Stereoscopic Player can also send 120 hz frame sequential video from side-by-side and the other 3D file formats using ATI graphics and a bleeding edge video driver.
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post #5 of 126 Old 10-10-2010, 08:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrickMcKaha View Post

Those of you with Optoma HD66 or similar DLP Link projectors - Have you created your own 3D videos using twin camcorders? I'd like instruction on that final step: How to create or render a 120 Hz field sequential video from two separate 60 Hz (or 30 Hz even) camcorder sources.

I hoped Sony Vegas would do it, but I don't see that choice in it's menus. I've read Frank's cool thread on making home 3D video in side-by-side format, but DLP Link wants field sequential. So, anyone know how to render 120 Hz field sequential video?

I've never heard of frame sequential video.
It would be very hard to encode such since the mpeg encoder would detect extreme amount of motion between consecutive frames. May be it could work as uncompressed stream. Also to play it would require supercomputer.
Finally you would also need a camera that captures images with 60 Hz progressive mode and for HD quality
I do not think that there is one for less than 10k.

May be you are confusing flicker-less shutter switching speed with video frame rate.
120 Hz usually reefers to quad buffer output speed.
The video input rate for quad buffer is usually 3 times less
or 30Hz for stereoscopic pair.

DLP-Link has two versions now:
One, older without quad buffer using VGA D-sub input
and new one with quad buffer inside the projector using HDMI 1.4a.
In both cases the video frame rate should be 30Hz in
SbS, OaU or dual stream. There is no frame sequential video format because it would be very hard to determine which is left and which is right eye frame.

Hope this helps.

Mathew Orman
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post #6 of 126 Old 10-10-2010, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icester View Post

I've never heard of frame sequential video...

Mathew Orman

Really?

http://www.best-3dtvs.com/what-is-frame-sequential-3d/

or

http://www.tru3d.com/technology/3D_M...e%20Sequential

or [insert 3D website here]

"The wise understand by themselves; fools follow the reports of others"-Tibetan Proverb
 
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post #7 of 126 Old 10-10-2010, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icester View Post

I've never heard of frame sequential video.
It would be very hard to encode such since the mpeg encoder would detect extreme amount of motion between consecutive frames. May be it could work as uncompressed stream. Also to play it would require supercomputer.
Finally you would also need a camera that captures images with 60 Hz progressive mode and for HD quality
I do not think that there is one for less than 10k.

May be you are confusing flicker-less shutter switching speed with video frame rate.
120 Hz usually reefers to quad buffer output speed.
The video input rate for quad buffer is usually 3 times less
or 30Hz for stereoscopic pair.

DLP-Link has two versions now:
One, older without quad buffer using VGA D-sub input
and new one with quad buffer inside the projector using HDMI 1.4a.
In both cases the video frame rate should be 30Hz in
SbS, OaU or dual stream. There is no frame sequential video format because it would be very hard to determine which is left and which is right eye frame.

Hope this helps.

Mathew Orman

The Nvidia 3D game player has been usinng 720p frame sequential format since it was introduced. Frist a 720p frame for one eye is sent followed by the 720p frame for the other eye. And the Nvida 3D IR emitter has both a USB connector and a VESA connector so it can be connected to either the PC or to the TV.
See:

http://store.nvidia.com/store?Action...1286736067321#
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post #8 of 126 Old 10-10-2010, 12:55 PM
 
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Those links do not contain a single 3d movie encoded as frame sequential.

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post #9 of 126 Old 10-10-2010, 12:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

The Nvidia 3D game player has been usinng 720p frame sequential format since it was introduced. Frist a 720p frame for one eye is sent followed by the 720p frame for the other eye. And the Nvida 3D IR emitter has both a USB connector and a VESA connector so it can be connected to either the PC or to the TV.
See:

http://store.nvidia.com/store?Action...1286736067321#

Do you have a sample of such movie?
Just one second long sample would be great.

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post #10 of 126 Old 10-10-2010, 01:32 PM
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The only video I've ever seen that was in frame-sequential format is the Sony E3 game demo from PSN. The native 3D Vision video format is dual stream WMV.
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post #11 of 126 Old 10-10-2010, 01:58 PM
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The followiing link from 2006 poinits out that with thr Nvidia 3D player that you can use either Page Flippinng( frame sequential) format or anaglyph 3D format. There is no reference at all to WMV format which is an encoding format and not a 3D presentation format.

http://download.cnet.com/nVidia-3D-S...-10163709.html
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post #12 of 126 Old 10-10-2010, 02:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter0328 View Post

The only video I've ever seen that was in frame-sequential format is the Sony E3 game demo from PSN. The native 3D Vision video format is dual stream WMV.

Wow,
how did Sony make left frame go to left eye and vice verse?
Or may be it was field sequential?

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post #13 of 126 Old 10-10-2010, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

The followiing link from 2006 poinits out that with thr Nvidia 3D player that you can use either Page Flippinng( frame sequential) format or anaglyph 3D format. There is no reference at all to WMV format which is an encoding format and not a 3D presentation format.

http://download.cnet.com/nVidia-3D-S...-10163709.html

Yes WMV dual stream is a video format. That is what we are discussing, not the output format.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icester View Post

Wow,
how did Sony make left frame go to left eye and vice verse?
Or may be it was field sequential?

Mathew Orman

The PS3 recognizes it as a 3D format because of a special tag in the MP4 meta-data. It knows that the first frame is left eye and the second is right eye and so on.
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post #14 of 126 Old 10-10-2010, 06:15 PM
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I am confused I though that the OP was trying to find a 3D video display format that he/she could send to her PJ and not a compresed 3D transmission format such as WMV that he/she could receive 3D progrming in for each eye and then have a program to convert that to a 3D video display format.
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post #15 of 126 Old 10-10-2010, 06:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

I am confused I though that the OP was trying to find a 3D video display format that he/she could send to her PJ and not a compresed 3D transmission format such as WMV that he/she could receive 3D progrming in for each eye and then have a program to convert that to a 3D video display format.

You can only do that with real time scene and action creations such as games or Machinima script driven movies all using GPU power.
There are no movies in uncompressed format due to insufficient storage memory and or required transfer bandwidth.

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post #16 of 126 Old 10-10-2010, 06:41 PM
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So
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post #17 of 126 Old 10-10-2010, 08:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icester View Post

Wow,
how did Sony make left frame go to left eye and vice verse?
Or may be it was field sequential?

Mathew Orman

Frame sequential, field sequential and page flip all mean the same thing.:

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post #18 of 126 Old 10-11-2010, 06:13 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter0328 View Post

Yes WMV dual stream is a video format. That is what we are discussing, not the output format.



The PS3 recognizes it as a 3D format because of a special tag in the MP4 meta-data. It knows that the first frame is left eye and the second is right eye and so on.

If this is true then who needs BluRay 3D player,
just buy PS3 and you get all the extras.
Do you have a sample of such mp4 video?
What is the frame rate?

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post #19 of 126 Old 10-11-2010, 06:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Frame sequential, field sequential and page flip all mean the same thing.:


Sorry,
I do not get it.
May be you meant that those are all time sequential methods
of presenting stereoscopic volume.
Frame sequential is full resolution stereo and field sequential is only half resolution so how can you say that
they are the same?
Also frame sequential requires frame indexing but field sequential is self index by even and odd fields.

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post #20 of 126 Old 10-11-2010, 08:49 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter0328 View Post

Yes WMV dual stream is a video format. That is what we are discussing, not the output format.



The PS3 recognizes it as a 3D format because of a special tag in the MP4 meta-data. It knows that the first frame is left eye and the second is right eye and so on.

Just found out that there is no 120 Hz mode on PS3
and the HDMI 1.4 does not support frame sequential mode.


Here are the only modes supported by HDMI 1.4:

Value Meaning
-------------------------
0000 Frame packing
0001 Field alternative
0010 Line alternative
0011 Side-by-Side (Full)
0100 L + depth
0101 L + depth + graphics + graphics-depth
0110 ~ 0111 Reserved for future use.
1000 Side-by-Side (Half)
1001 ~ 1111 Reserved for future use.

So, PS3 must have a special version of stereoscopic player
that decodes mp4 frame sequential and formats the HDMI 1.4 output.

Does any one know of such PS3 capabilities?

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post #21 of 126 Old 10-11-2010, 09:25 AM
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True, frame sequential is not a HDMI 1.4a 3D display format it is format for outputing 3D 720p video content developed years ago by Nvidia for 3D games to 3D capable displays. that can refresh at 120fps(60fps per eye) and which used Active Shutter Glases.
It is no a format for comnpressing video for transmisson or storage such as MPEG2 or H.264 for HD or MVC for 3D.
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post #22 of 126 Old 10-11-2010, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, so all 3D video files are encoded at 30 fps. (in NTSC countries)

I have a HD Hero camcorder that can record 720p at 60 fps, though. They say it is for getting smooth slow motion, but I thought I could use a pair of them to generate smooth 3D. I still will, but I'll be recording at 1080p 30 fps instead and rendering files in top/bottom format for now.

Thanks for the help and discussion on this so far.
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post #23 of 126 Old 10-11-2010, 04:20 PM
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1080i 3D HDMI 1.4a SbS video is 30 fps.
720p 3D HDMI 1.4a TnB video is 60 fps.
1080p 3D HDMI 1.4a dual frame packing video is 24 fps.
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post #24 of 126 Old 10-11-2010, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Frame sequential, field sequential and page flip all mean the same thing.:

Frame sequential and field sequential are two totally different things. Frame sequential is also known as page-flipping, meaning each view is shown in succession: L-R-L-R-L-R, etc. Field sequential is also known as horizontal line-interleaved, when both left and right views are encoded onto a single frame. With field sequential each alternating field (line) corresponds to a different eye.
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post #25 of 126 Old 10-12-2010, 10:13 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybereality View Post

Frame sequential and field sequential are two totally different things. Frame sequential is also known as page-flipping, meaning each view is shown in succession: L-R-L-R-L-R, etc. Field sequential is also known as horizontal line-interleaved, when both left and right views are encoded onto a single frame. With field sequential each alternating field (line) corresponds to a different eye.

Sorry,
slight mistake.
Field sequential are encoded into two separate fields
(half resolution frames) and at playback they are displayed one after another shifted vertically by one line relative to each other.
Line sequential is when left and right eye images are
encoded on one even lines and the other on odd in single frame. The separations is done by passive glasses and micro strip polarizes with alternating polarity for odd and even lines. The separation can also be done by line blanking method which I have invented in 1985, British patent pending but never finalized.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybereality View Post

Frame sequential and field sequential are two totally different things. Frame sequential is also known as page-flipping, meaning each view is shown in succession: L-R-L-R-L-R, etc. Field sequential is also known as horizontal line-interleaved, when both left and right views are encoded onto a single frame. With field sequential each alternating field (line) corresponds to a different eye.

Nope - that is called Line-By-Line

http://www.jvc.eu/3d_monitor/technology/video.html
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post #27 of 126 Old 10-12-2010, 03:41 PM
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I have some frame sequential test clips in this link: Link.

icester asked before so I reinstalled windows and updated my pc then dl'd the photoshop and built the test patterns and then made the frame sequential pattern frame by frame.

It took a few days but there you go. I imagined that maybe he would use it to test his 3D TV he made so I figured he should have it.


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post #28 of 126 Old 10-12-2010, 07:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8:13 View Post

I have some frame sequential test clips in this link: Link.

icester asked before so I reinstalled windows and updated my pc then dl'd the photoshop and built the test patterns and then made the frame sequential pattern frame by frame.

It took a few days but there you go. I imagined that maybe he would use it to test his 3D TV he made so I figured he should have it.

Well,
with zero parallax it is no different then regular 2d movie clip.
All 2D movies are frame sequential.
Nice joke:-)

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post #29 of 126 Old 10-13-2010, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icester View Post
Well,
with zero parallax it is no different then regular 2d movie clip.
All 2D movies are frame sequential.
Nice joke:-)

Mathew Orman
I have made two new 1080p frame sequential patterns, this time it is not zero parallax, the right frame is 34 pixels more to the right than the left frame.

I don't have a 3D tv so I was unaware that zero parallax wouldn't work in 3D, I have nothing to test to see for myself. it was a honest mistake, I'm sorry. Anyway, here is some proper tests.

The frame sequential 1080p patterns are in the folder attached. I have made them today to correct the error I made before. I was not joking, it was a error.

 

Video.zip 266.4951171875k . file


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post #30 of 126 Old 10-14-2010, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
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I have some frame sequential test clips in this link: Link.

I made some new tests today, available in the link.


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