Half SBS and Full SBS, can someone explain it? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 124 Old 03-08-2011, 07:06 PM
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So does that means I have to convert my iso file using some program to allow my ac ryan to be able to play that on my tv? If so is there any free ware that is able to do so?
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post #92 of 124 Old 03-08-2011, 07:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yif3ng View Post

So does that means I have to convert my iso file using some program to allow my ac ryan to be able to play that on my tv? If so is there any free ware that is able to do so?

Yes,
there are two, one is free the other cost some.

Check this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1304107

Mathew Orman
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post #93 of 124 Old 03-17-2011, 08:06 AM
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I can use iZ3d MPCplayer and driver to play a half-sbs.mkv --> anaglyph. When I do the same thing in Powerdvd 10X it does the same trick, only it doesn't merge left and right, so I see two small screens, indeed, side by side.

Any thoughts?
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post #94 of 124 Old 10-19-2011, 10:59 AM
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yeah its an old thread i know but i just want to see if i get it,

1.both half and full sbs, are still inferior to the 3d bluray standard
2.you can play all 3d sbs(half or full) mkv's on any media player(with at least hdmi 1.3) that supports hd mkv playback on a 3d tv
3. 3d Bluray standard and 3d bluray iso require hdmi 1.4??
4. Hdmi 1.3 and 1.4 have the same bandwidth (10.2GB)??
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post #95 of 124 Old 10-20-2011, 08:49 AM
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I'll try to answer these... someone please correct me if I'm wrong:

1. Yes. See #2.
2. So far I've found that only VLC can play full sbs. But you may not see the full resolution anyway. All other players I have tried choke on full sbs.
3. Yes... but: Some 1.3 AVRs will pass full 3d. Mine won't so I use 2 outputs from my video card, one directly to the 3d tv (HDMI 1.4) and one to the HDMI 1.3 AVR. Some 3d DVD players have 2 HDMI outputs that will do the same thing.
4. Don't know, but I suspect they are the same.
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post #96 of 124 Old 10-20-2011, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z0p View Post

I'll try to answer these... someone please correct me if I'm wrong:

1. Yes. See #2.
2. So far I've found that only VLC can play full sbs. But you may not see the full resolution anyway. All other players I have tried choke on full sbs.
3. Yes... but: Some 1.3 AVRs will pass full 3d. Mine won't so I use 2 outputs from my video card, one directly to the 3d tv (HDMI 1.4) and one to the HDMI 1.3 AVR. Some 3d DVD players have 2 HDMI outputs that will do the same thing.
4. Don't know, but I suspect they are the same.

The difference in HDMI 1.3 and 1.4 for 3D is not a matter of bandwidth. It is a matter of TV and AVR EDID indicating if and what formats of 3D they support - these were not defind for the EDID until the 1.4 spec so a 1.3 TV or AVR cannot supply this EDID.

This will tell the source device which 3D formats it can send to the TV and through the AVR.

Blu-ray 3D players when trying to send the original HDMI format of frame packing, will require confirmation of support of that format before sending the signal.

In sending checkerboard and SbS Half (frame compatible) this confirmation may not be required (however some source devices will still required the confirmation).

AVRs that have a full pass-thru may allow the TVs EDID pass unaltered to the source device. This also means that the AVR may not process the audio when set to full pass-thur. AVRs that process the signal will change the EDID and if the AVR is not 3D compatible it will strip out this part of the TV EDID.
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post #97 of 124 Old 02-14-2012, 03:11 PM
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Hey there,

Can someone tell me if the MSI 6450 pci card is enough to play fullhd 3d and bluray 3d iso files,and can where i can find these movies?
I ll check my pm if someone sent me..
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post #98 of 124 Old 02-18-2012, 05:17 AM
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Watched a couple of 1080p half-sbs videos through a WDTV Live, as I just got my Samsung PS51D550 and a pair of glasses. I'm wondering if 1080p full-sbs will work too? Or do I understand correctly (from back-reading) that the TV won't be able to handle the resolution (i.e. 1080p x 2) of full-sbs?
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post #99 of 124 Old 06-04-2012, 11:59 PM
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rotfl made my day that.
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post #100 of 124 Old 06-07-2012, 11:43 AM
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Does anybody know why when I play half SBS I can only see a clear picture if I close one eye, otherwise it looks slightly distorted. I am using my computer to play 3D on my Toshiba 42VL863. My GPU is XFX Rasdeon 7970 Black Edition. Any help would be greatly appreciated
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post #101 of 124 Old 06-07-2012, 11:44 AM
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Does anybody know why when I play half SBS I can only see a clear picture if I close one eye, otherwise it looks slightly distorted. I am using my computer to play 3D on my Toshiba 42VL863. My GPU is XFX Rasdeon 7970 Black Edition. Any help would be greatly appreciated
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post #102 of 124 Old 07-08-2012, 04:32 PM
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Can anyone tell me if I'd get any benefit of full SBS compared to half SBS on my tv? It's rear-projection DLP Mitsubishi WD-73640, which only supports half Full-HD in 3d (checkerboard).
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post #103 of 124 Old 07-09-2012, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikehall View Post

Can anyone tell me if I'd get any benefit of full SBS compared to half SBS on my tv? It's rear-projection DLP Mitsubishi WD-73640, which only supports half Full-HD in 3d (checkerboard).
If your TV converts the full SBS content internally to Checkerboard then there is no benefit to using it.
If the TV displays it without converting it to checkerboard then you will get a benefit. Even though checkerboard accepts 1/2R input it does and excellent job of upscaling the contetn to full HD for each eye for display.
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post #104 of 124 Old 07-09-2012, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

If your TV converts the full SBS content internally to Checkerboard then there is no benefit to using it.
If the TV displays it without converting it to checkerboard then you will get a benefit. Even though checkerboard accepts 1/2R input it does and excellent job of upscaling the contetn to full HD for each eye for display.

Here's what my tv's 3D menu says for the 640 is divided into features:
a. “Source Format” is the controls of the internal 3D adapter.
i. OFF is for no 3D even when you have a 3D signal.
ii. AUTOMATIC is for a 3D signal that matches the HDMI 1.4a standards for the Mandatory 3D signals.
iii. SIDE BY SIDE is for s-b-s 3D signals in 720p, 1080i, 1080p/24Hz, 1080p/30Hz, 1080p/60Hz signals that do not perfectly match the HDMI standards but are still available from cable boxes, satellite receivers and other sources. This is a manual setting. Also any 3D signal that would trigger the AUTOMATIC will override this setting.
iv. TOP/BOTTOM is for t-b signals in 720p or 1080p/24Hz that do not perfectly match the HDMI standards but may still be available from cable boxes, sat receivers, and other devices. This is a manual setting. Also any 3D signal that would trigger the AUTOMATIC will override this setting.
v. CHECKERBOARD is for 1080p/60Hz checkerboard 3D signals from external devices such as the external 3D adapter and several computer graphics cards/3D programs. This is a manual setting. Also any 3D signal that would trigger the AUTOMATIC will override this setting.
vi. 2D + DEPTH is to a 2D-to-3D converter of sorts. Gives standard 2D signals a 3D or depth quality and does require the glasses.

Here's what I could find about the resolution of 3d DLP's:
The 3D pixel count is half per eye in a DLP. But DLP is always 1920 x 1080 lines of resolution, 2D and 3D.

The checkerboard 3D format uses half of the pixels for the left eye view, and the remaining half of the pixels for the right eye view. Imagine a checkerboard. The red squares would contain the image for the left eye, and the black squares would contain the image for the right eye. Only the appropriate squares (red or black, not both) are flashed for each eye, leaving "holes" in the picture where the other colored squares would be.

Imagine a checkerboard with 1920 columns and 1080 rows. If you remove all the black squares or all the red squares, it still has the same amount of rows and columns. It's just that those rows and columns have holes at every other pixel location, as those pixels are used for the other eye's view.

Checkerboard maintains the 1920 x 1080 lines. It's not 1920 x 540 nor 960 x 1080. It is still 1920 x 1080. It just has 1920 x 1080 dotted lines. This is why it appears to be more than half resolution, and can compete with other formats.

Because each pixel is produced by a micro-mirror, and the mirrors change the image much faster than Plasma or LCD pixels, no ghosting occurs.

Given that information, would I be getting a better quality image with full SBS?
Also it sounds like full SBS takes more processing power than a regular 3D Blu-ray disc?
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post #105 of 124 Old 07-25-2012, 10:17 PM
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I got a simple question, which I'm having difficulty finding information on.

I have an active 3D TV.
http://www.samsung.com/ca/consumer/tv-video/tv/led/UN46D6420UFXZC

So therefore I need to use active glasses.

Am I able to watch SBS 3D on an active TV with active glasses?

If not, what format do I need to watch on an active TV?

Can I use passive glasses on an active TV?

Thanks
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post #106 of 124 Old 07-25-2012, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vectraat View Post

I got a simple question, which I'm having difficulty finding information on.
I have an active 3D TV.
http://www.samsung.com/ca/consumer/tv-video/tv/led/UN46D6420UFXZC
So therefore I need to use active glasses.
Am I able to watch SBS 3D on an active TV with active glasses?
If not, what format do I need to watch on an active TV?
Can I use passive glasses on an active TV?
Thanks

Yes you can watch SBS 3D.
No you don't use passive glasses.
Just choose 3D on your remote. Different options for 3D are presented. Choose SBS. Your active glasses will work. You're good to go.
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post #107 of 124 Old 07-26-2012, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Robut View Post

Yes you can watch SBS 3D.
No you don't use passive glasses.
Just choose 3D on your remote. Different options for 3D are presented. Choose SBS. Your active glasses will work. You're good to go.

I'm having an issue with the 3d effect working in one scene and then immediately going out of focus in another scene and then back in focus while still on the same, etc etc. This is using half-sbs rips and any player (stereoscopic, powerdvd, vlc, mpc-hc, xbmc) with the tv 3d setting at "side by side". Not sure if my glasses are defective or the emitter is messing up or what. Tried 3 different movies, all exhibit the same sporadic effect. Glasses are Xpand 102's. Any ideas? TV is a mitsu wd-73740.
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post #108 of 124 Old 07-26-2012, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kahmeal View Post

I'm having an issue with the 3d effect working in one scene and then immediately going out of focus in another scene and then back in focus while still on the same, etc etc. This is using half-sbs rips and any player (stereoscopic, powerdvd, vlc, mpc-hc, xbmc) with the tv 3d setting at "side by side". Not sure if my glasses are defective or the emitter is messing up or what. Tried 3 different movies, all exhibit the same sporadic effect. Glasses are Xpand 102's. Any ideas? TV is a mitsu wd-73740.

I'm certainly not sure but maybe your display is set for zoom or wide fit to fill the screen in 2D. This can cut off some of the image. It maybe should be "screen fit" so the image fills the screen pixel for pixel with no cut off. Therefore when the side by side images are combined they align properly for a correct 3D image. The terms I use may not be the same for your display and again this is only a theory.
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post #109 of 124 Old 07-26-2012, 04:43 PM
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Turns out the "DLP Link" setting was off and I hadn't noticed. I assumed the "internal emitter" being set to on was what I needed but apparently not. The glasses were turning on and doing something but definitely not what they were supposed to. Once I turned DLP link on in the TV menu everything works great. The green tint and overall dimmer picture are a bit much with these glasses, think I might try the MonsterVision glasses everyone seems to love.
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post #110 of 124 Old 07-26-2012, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kahmeal View Post

Turns out the "DLP Link" setting was off and I hadn't noticed. I assumed the "internal emitter" being set to on was what I needed but apparently not. The glasses were turning on and doing something but definitely not what they were supposed to. Once I turned DLP link on in the TV menu everything works great. The green tint and overall dimmer picture are a bit much with these glasses, think I might try the MonsterVision glasses everyone seems to love.

I have two pair of Monsters and of the eight pair I own they are my favorite, go to glasses. Get them here http://www.monsterproducts.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=5938&id=9132. The Monster thread has additional discount codes.

Glad you solved your problem.
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post #111 of 124 Old 08-21-2012, 10:56 AM
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I've read through this thread, and I think I understand enough about the tech, but my question is how do I play it?

I have a Samsung 55ES7500 LED TV which can display full HD 3d Content, and I also have some Full SBS 3840x1080 content in file form.

Now I know enough now to understand that I can't just shove 3840x1080 at the display and expect it to sort it out, I need some sort of player to properly decode that and push it down the HDMI cable in the correct form for the TV to understand/use.

I have gathered I can build a nice HTPC with the correct software and video card, and achieve this, but my question is:

1.) Does a nice preferably compact player exist to do this for me, either via DLNA from my storage solution or via direct attached like a USB drive. I currently have a WDTV live and don't have any complaints about it except not being able to solve this problem Would love to see something in that form factor and price point.

2.) Does anyone know anything out my TV, specifically since it can stream DLNA content, is there someway for it to process the full SBS content directly?

Thanks.
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post #112 of 124 Old 09-10-2012, 06:19 PM
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Hi! like scrumi i too have a similar build. i have the Samsung UE32ES6300 which says it supports FULL HD3D. What ive come to understand from reading all the posts is that concerning my build in order to get FULL SBS 3D all i need is a player? one that deals with all the technical stuff like encoding and such. Stereoscopic Player should handle this right? I have a GTX 560 ti as my GPU which is connected to my HDTV. The player will handle sending two 1080p images right?

A breakdown of my understanding:

1) Stereoscopic player
2) Load Full SBS file
3) Enable 3D > SBS
4) Glasses on
5) Enjoy

Correct? I shouldnt require any additional requirements right? I know theres no harm in testing but the thing is i dont have my glasses yet. they should arrive in a day or twos time.

Thanks!
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post #113 of 124 Old 09-18-2012, 05:12 PM
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*UPDATE*

Thanks guys! all works well! and i can use windows media player 12 which i prefer over all other players. Loving the experience! Great TV the ES6300
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post #114 of 124 Old 03-28-2013, 12:50 AM
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I made a post when I was having these issues and then fixed my own problem and made a mini-guide. It's for people wanting to set up an HTPC with a DLP-Link ready projector.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1454962/stereoscopic-player-v-about-to-lose-my-s#post_22917168
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post #115 of 124 Old 04-01-2013, 02:43 PM
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Hello people.

I'm a new member and very new to this 3D business.

I just spent hours and read through this 2 year old thread. As a newbie I'm still quite confused!

If I want to see a full quality 3D movie with either a PC or an HTPC, what type/types of 3D files will do the job? What type of hardware and software (media player) do you need?

Can somebody please sum up the whole conclusions up until now in a very short and easy tutorial for us newbies??

I mean from what I have understood HSBS or HOU only lose quality when they become 3D on the screen. How about full SBS? Does it exist?

Iso files seem a bit complicated with mounting into powerdvd, etc.

I would be very thankful if somebody could sum everything up in a very short and easy text for both PC and HTPC users.

Best regards...
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post #116 of 124 Old 04-02-2013, 02:50 PM
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Your least expensive solution is to buy a standalone 3D Blu-Ray player and rent or buy Blu Ray's. ISO file will give you the best quality but as you stated a pain to mount etc. MKV sbs is the most common file you will encounter in down loads and do look very good (better than cable or VUDU etc). If you want to use a HTPC just buy a Blu Ray burner ($60 on sale) and get power DVD 10 or better or any other one of the players out there. This will keep you above the law and get the best picture available.

Smart enough to know better, to old to care
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post #117 of 124 Old 04-02-2013, 05:18 PM
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^^Thanks for your reply.

But how about full sbs and half sbs? What are the full sbs files usually called? Because I only find half sbs everywhere.

Moreover, I hear that even if you have half sbs (or half ou), you will receive half the total picture information with each eye, so in total with both eyes, you will still experience the 3D quality in full 1080p! So hsbs and full sbs don't really differ in quality! Is that true?
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post #118 of 124 Old 04-03-2013, 03:00 PM
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No it's not true. Half sbs has half the horizonal resoltuoin per eye compared to full sbs, or Blueray 3d. The amount of data is equivalent to a full 1080p 2d video stream, but it is half that of bluray 3d.

Full SbS has a resolution of 3840x1080p. No TV's will accept an input of that resolution. The SbS mode of your TV will only accept up to 1920x1080 half SbS input.
The only way to display a Full SbS file without loss in resolution is render and output as a 3D framepacked HDMI 1.4 signal.
Stereoscopic player can do this if you have a compatible video card.


In the end, in order to encode a Full SbS x264 from a bluray source without noticable quality loss you need a bitrate that is pretty much the same as the original bluray MVC stream.
If your desire is to keep the full resolution you are better off with 3d Bluray ISOs.
(when MVC gets the full x.264 treatment we may see something more useful for full resolution re-encodes with decent file sizes)

Half sbs (or half over under) is popular due to the reasonable bitrates and the fact that it is a widely compatible HDMI 1.3 format that needs no special player.
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post #119 of 124 Old 04-03-2013, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obveron View Post

No it's not true. Half sbs has half the horizonal resoltuoin per eye compared to full sbs, or Blueray 3d. The amount of data is equivalent to a full 1080p 2d video stream, but it is half that of bluray 3d.

Full SbS has a resolution of 3840x1080p. No TV's will accept an input of that resolution. The SbS mode of your TV will only accept up to 1920x1080 half SbS input.
The only way to display a Full SbS file without loss in resolution is render and output as a 3D framepacked HDMI 1.4 signal.
Stereoscopic player can do this if you have a compatible video card.


In the end, in order to encode a Full SbS x264 from a bluray source without noticable quality loss you need a bitrate that is pretty much the same as the original bluray MVC stream.
If your desire is to keep the full resolution you are better off with 3d Bluray ISOs.
(when MVC gets the full x.264 treatment we may see something more useful for full resolution re-encodes with decent file sizes)

Half sbs (or half over under) is popular due to the reasonable bitrates and the fact that it is a widely compatible HDMI 1.3 format that needs no special player.

Perfect. That's the information I needed. Thanks a lot for that.

However some questions remain. Sorry for being ignorant.

1. So you're saying if your HTPC has the right graphic card and an HDMI 1.4 format (with a compatible TV), you can install a Stereoscopic player and watch full sbs resolution films. Now the question is, do they exist? and I'm not talking about ISO files. Just big a$$ files with full resolution (rendered or what ever it's called).

2. So with H-sbs and H-ou files, you can just use ordinary VLC or windows media player and watch 3D films on your 3D TV?

3. If you burn an ISO file as an image on a bluray disc, you should be getting a full resolution 3D quality, right?
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post #120 of 124 Old 04-07-2013, 10:34 AM
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1. Yes, stereoscopic player will output framepacked 3D over HDMI 1.4. It will accept full SbS files. Yes those big Full SbS files do exist, but they are rare for the reasons I mentioned. If you mount a 3D bluray iso, sterescopic player can also play that at full resolution (minus bluray menus).

2. Yes H-SbS and H-OU play fine on any player (the player treats it as 2D). Put your TV in SbS or OU mode and voila.

3. Yes 3D bluaray ISOs can be burned, or they can be simply mounted (no burning necessary) and played with steorescopic player or powerdvd etc. Also many media boxes such as the Mede8er player will playback 3D bluray ISOs at full resolution via HDMI 1.4 framepacked 3D.
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