DLP Link - nVidia - Optoma HD66 - Stereoscopic Player - Jitter? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 102 Old 12-24-2010, 06:54 AM - Thread Starter
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This rabbit hole called "3D" is getting deeper and deeper. Here is my foray... please bear with me as it sets the tone for the issue I'm having




  • Had HD65. Found 3D and a buyer for my old PJ so I jumped on to the HD66 (~$500).

  • Read a bit more about 3D and then noted my current HTPC running ATI 4200 won't do so got a Asrock ION 3D w GT218 that does 3D. Found a buyer for my old HTPC.

  • Find out that CyberLink PDVD 10 only works with nVidia Vision Kit (!!). Find Stereoscopic Player. Download a few 3D MKV trailers, looks cool in anaglyphic.

  • Purchase 4 x DLP Link glasses (generic Korean). Buy Stereoscopic Player.

  • Set PJ to 3D. HTPC to 720p/120Hz. Fire up Stereoscopic Player in 3D DLP-TV mode... find out need software page flipping. Ok.

  • FINALLY. A bit of 3D. Then find out that Stereoscopic Player in such a mode doesn't use the 3D decoding in the GT218 (!!). With the crappy dual core Atom clocked to 2GHz, some 3D MKVs (even small trailers) are too much for it. Grab my old CoreAVC 2 to decode and all is well. Ok.

  • At this point I'm thinking, if Stereoscopic Player doesn't need the nVidia support, why did I get a new HTPC?

  • Fire up the entire setup and get 3D! Great, except every couple seconds there would be jitter. That is, it looks like the left and right frames are swapped. This is clearly visible when not using the glasses.

  • Suspect 25ft HDMI cable. Use a 6ft certified 1.4 just to be sure. Same issue.

  • Suspect HTPC. Use a Dell Studio XPS 13 with 9400m, Stereoscopic Player, same setup, same issue... but seems to jitter more often.

  • Suspect glasses (yeah getting desperate) but all 4 exhibit same issue (duh).

  • At this point, some more searching brings me upon some settings in the nVidia control panel. Play with vsync (super jittery!), triple buffering etc, but same issue.

  • Finally, I come across a post (here) that says I probably need the nVidia Vision Kit (dongle) to enable 3D.

----

Ok so here is where I'm at. I can get the dongle, no problem. Some folks selling it used relatively cheaply. After I get the dongle and 3D is enabled in the nVidia control panel, what next?

I presume I no longer have to use software page flipping in SP or do I? Set it to something else in SP?

Or... once 3D in nVidia is enabled, am I just able to use CyberLink PDVD 10 to play 3D MKVs using generic DLP Link glasses?

----

I'm at a loss here and it's high time I consult with some seasoned veterans here before jumping in further

Thanks folks!
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post #2 of 102 Old 12-24-2010, 07:14 AM
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Hi, I think we have the same issue, you can see my previous post about "nvidia emitter and DLP Link issue", I just cross the next step of you and bought only the ir emitter in order to activate the quad buffer need it to run page flipping in 120hz, but I have the same results, I used the 3DTV and Nvidia player and used "software pageflipping" and "Nvidia 3D vision", I have the same problem with both settings, It shows some 3D for just few seconds and then it get out of sync, I read a lot and changed a lof ot settings like you in regards the multi gpu, shorter emitter, etc etc and with the same results, I'm thinking about one possibility, that the DLP link glasses are not getting the white code from the Texas instrument DLP link chip, and that we can see some 3D due to a kind of random luck due to the page flipping process, I think the only way to figure it out is if some one with both Nvidia DLP link glasses can help us in the process, I don't want to expend more money buying Nvidia 3D vision glasses and have the same results, regards
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post #3 of 102 Old 12-24-2010, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Well not quite. I just ordered the nVidia Vision Kit

The problem I'm having is VISIBLE without glasses. That is, I get 3D just fine but on the source itself I can CLEARLY see that every couple seconds (not consistent) it appears that the left/right images are swapped for a moment. What this looks like when viewing through the glasses in the setup is the "background" in the 3D image shifts left and right for just a moment...

That is... the stuff in the foreground is fine (since there is no separation) but the stuff in the back gets shaken left and right for just a moment. Again this is visible without the glasses on so I believe it's a source setup issue, no so much the glasses. Given that, I don't believe the nVidia Vision glasses themselves will have a difference. I'm just hoping that the nVidia Vision dongle will enable something magical that takes away that "jitter" perhaps introduced by "software" page flipping in Stereoscopic Player and/or vsync (?)
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post #4 of 102 Old 12-24-2010, 07:55 AM
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I found an old post, not really if it's true....

Under Windows 7 nVidia has scrambled all source of eye sync when outputting 120Hz frame sequential stereoscopic content.
nVidia also scrambled the quad buffered 120Hz frame sequential output all together.
That is why one has to purchase nVidia's 3D Vision Kit
and use it instead of DLP-Link glasses when connected with DLP-Link projector.

Finally, nVidia is actually corrected the DLP-Link problem
by forcing the 3D Vision Kit requirement.

With nVidias IR glasses the DLP-Link projector works correctly and never looses the eye sync.

Mathew Orman


Maybe I will try to test it under windows XP, and see that it works, when you recieve your Nvidia 3d vision kit please tell me if you had any luck with your 3D DLP link glasses, regards
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post #5 of 102 Old 12-24-2010, 08:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jportillo1956 View Post

I found an old post, not really if it's true....

Under Windows 7 nVidia has scrambled all source of eye sync when outputting 120Hz frame sequential stereoscopic content.
nVidia also scrambled the quad buffered 120Hz frame sequential output all together.
That is why one has to purchase nVidia's 3D Vision Kit
and use it instead of DLP-Link glasses when connected with DLP-Link projector.

Finally, nVidia is actually corrected the DLP-Link problem
by forcing the 3D Vision Kit requirement.

With nVidias IR glasses the DLP-Link projector works correctly and never looses the eye sync.

Mathew Orman


Maybe I will try to test it under windows XP, and see that it works, when you recieve your Nvidia 3d vision kit please tell me if you had any luck with your 3D DLP link glasses, regards

Thanks. I came across that one too. Rebuilding the box as XP will be a pain. I'll try and dual boot.

What I'm going to try is to use a box that doesn't have an nVidia card and has DVI or HDMI out. I've got a Acer Timeline with Intel GMA4300(?) and HDMI out. Will put Stereoscopic Player on that and test. It's not the most powerful thing but we'll see...
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post #6 of 102 Old 12-24-2010, 08:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jportillo1956 View Post

I found an old post, not really if it's true....

Under Windows 7 nVidia has scrambled all source of eye sync when outputting 120Hz frame sequential stereoscopic content.
nVidia also scrambled the quad buffered 120Hz frame sequential output all together.
That is why one has to purchase nVidia's 3D Vision Kit
and use it instead of DLP-Link glasses when connected with DLP-Link projector.

Finally, nVidia is actually corrected the DLP-Link problem
by forcing the 3D Vision Kit requirement.

With nVidias IR glasses the DLP-Link projector works correctly and never looses the eye sync.

Mathew Orman


Maybe I will try to test it under windows XP, and see that it works, when you recieve your Nvidia 3d vision kit please tell me if you had any luck with your 3D DLP link glasses, regards

DLP-Link glasses will only sync with content if you use DLP TVs with checker board mode.
On all DLP-Link projectors you will have to correct the eye order manually using remote.

Simply use only nVidia 3D Vision Kit glasses and you will never have any problems like viewing pseudo-stereo.

Mathew Orman
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post #7 of 102 Old 12-24-2010, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icester View Post

DLP-Link glasses will only sync with content if you use DLP TVs with checker board mode.
On all DLP-Link projectors you will have to correct the eye order manually using remote.

Simply use only nVidia 3D Vision Kit glasses and you will never have any problems like viewing pseudo-stereo.

Mathew Orman

Mathew, your name is all over these forums so I appreciate you stopping by. At the very least, you're well traveled

Your post then brings on two questions:

1. Are you saying then the Optoma HD66 in DLP-Link mode + HTPC w/nVidia w/o Vision + HDMI 720p 120Hz + Stereoscopic Player will not provide DLP-Link?

2. Will then adding the nVidia Vision Kit dongle enable DLP-Link use correctly?

Again the issue I have is outlined here:

Quote:
The problem I'm having is VISIBLE without glasses. That is, I get 3D just fine but on the source itself I can CLEARLY see that every couple seconds (not consistent) it appears that the left/right images are swapped for a moment. What this looks like when viewing through the glasses in the setup is the "background" in the 3D image shifts left and right for just a moment...

That is... the stuff in the foreground is fine (since there is no separation) but the stuff in the back gets shaken left and right for just a moment. Again this is visible without the glasses on so I believe it's a source setup issue, no so much the glasses. Given that, I don't believe the nVidia Vision glasses themselves will have a difference. I'm just hoping that the nVidia Vision dongle will enable something magical that takes away that "jitter" perhaps introduced by "software" page flipping in Stereoscopic Player and/or vsync (?)

Oh and FYI there is no pseudo stereo issue, the eye-order is correct. This is a case where it actually does work and it not a losing sync issue -- primarily because I can see the source is causing the "jitter", not the glasses failing to sync.

Image it this for a moment where you're using anaglyph and for one frame the red/blue is swapped then goes back to normal. You can clearly see this happening. Of course in my case here it's happening when using software page flipping in Stereoscopic Player and doesn't in anaglyph
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post #8 of 102 Old 12-24-2010, 09:03 AM
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My problem it's not just pseudo stereo, I can easily correct that with the press of a key in my glasses (reverse key), the problem is that they doesn't sync correctly with the image, I only see 3d sometimes and for a few seconds I think the main problem it's related to the projector not sending the white flashes, so the glasses only syncs due to a kind of random luck, but I think someone with a projector/win7 64 bits setup with both DLP link glasses and Nvidia, can confirm that, regards.
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post #9 of 102 Old 12-24-2010, 09:23 AM - Thread Starter
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I can tell you when it arrives.

Tell me this... Is your source stable w no left right jitter sometimes when you look without glasses?

What's your setup again?
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post #10 of 102 Old 12-24-2010, 09:31 AM
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These are my settings:

CPU AMD Phenom X3 2.9GHz
2GB ram DDR2
GT 240 Geforce video Card 512 MB DDR5
ASUS Mobo
Viewsonic PJD6210-3D projector (VGA input only)
Nvidia IR emitter only
PGD-150 Viewsonic DLP Link Glasses
Win 7 64bits Home Premium
Latest Nvidia 3d Vision drivers (Nov'10)

I can see both jitter and syc problems, but I think they are related, when your glasses stay out of sync they "resync" again but they never knows wich frame is the correct ofr each eye (50/50) chance of wrong eye (pseudo stereo) (very discussed here), that you can correct with the invert key, so I think your problem as mine are related to sync.... regards.
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post #11 of 102 Old 12-24-2010, 09:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ualnosaj View Post

Mathew, your name is all over these forums so I appreciate you stopping by. At the very least, you're well traveled

Your post then brings on two questions:

1. Are you saying then the Optoma HD66 in DLP-Link mode + HTPC w/nVidia w/o Vision + HDMI 720p 120Hz + Stereoscopic Player will not provide DLP-Link?

2. Will then adding the nVidia Vision Kit dongle enable DLP-Link use correctly?

Again the issue I have is outlined here:



Oh and FYI there is no pseudo stereo issue, the eye-order is correct. This is a case where it actually does work and it not a losing sync issue -- primarily because I can see the source is causing the "jitter", not the glasses failing to sync.

Image it this for a moment where you're using anaglyph and for one frame the red/blue is swapped then goes back to normal. You can clearly see this happening. Of course in my case here it's happening when using software page flipping in Stereoscopic Player and doesn't in anaglyph

Software page-flipping will always be interrupted unless you
terminate the Windows 7 services which interrupt Stereoscopic Player.
software page-flipping may also get interrupted by insufficient Hard Drive Speed, slow codecs and fragmentation of files that contain the 3D video in use.

With nVidia 3D Vision Kit Stereoscopic Player will use hardware page-flipping using nVidias quad buffer implemented in DirectX.
You still may have problems with interrupted video playback but you will never see depth inverting from normal to pseudo or vice verse.
DLP-Link glasses will never work correctly with any DLP-Link projectors and that is confirmed by TI and OPTOMA. If you use DLP-Link glasses you will have to correct eye order manually at all times you see pseudo-stereo.

Mathew Orman
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post #12 of 102 Old 12-24-2010, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icester View Post

Software page-flipping will always be interrupted unless you
terminate the Windows 7 services which interrupt Stereoscopic Player.
software page-flipping may also get interrupted by insufficient Hard Drive Speed, slow codecs and fragmentation of files that contain the 3D video in use.

With nVidia 3D Vision Kit Stereoscopic Player will use hardware page-flipping using nVidias quad buffer implemented in DirectX.
You still may have problems with interrupted video playback but you will never see depth inverting from normal to pseudo or vice verse.
DLP-Link glasses will never work correctly with any DLP-Link projectors and that is confirmed by TI and OPTOMA. If you use DLP-Link glasses you will have to correct eye order manually at all times you see pseudo-stereo.

Mathew Orman

Mathew,

Thank you!

This is what I was looking for:

Quote:
  • Software page-flipping will always be interrupted unless you
  • terminate the Windows 7 services which interrupt Stereoscopic Player.
  • software page-flipping may also get interrupted by insufficient Hard Drive Speed, slow codecs and fragmentation of files that contain the 3D video in use.

This gives me some more things to narrow down. For example right now the files are coming off a USB2 HDD. I can move it to the local Vertex SSD to test.

Quote:
With nVidia 3D Vision Kit Stereoscopic Player will use hardware page-flipping using nVidias quad buffer implemented in DirectX.

Excellent which means then I just need to emitter to enable it but stick with the DLP Link.

Quote:
You still may have problems with interrupted video playback but you will never see depth inverting from normal to pseudo or vice verse.

I haven't had that problem yet but good to know! Actually... possibly once but that's when I looked away and back.

Quote:
DLP-Link glasses will never work correctly with any DLP-Link projectors and that is confirmed by TI and OPTOMA. If you use DLP-Link glasses you will have to correct eye order manually at all times you see pseudo-stereo.

The Optoma thread is gone. Do you have a link so I can read about it? Not doubting you as I've read this several times over in other threads.

It seems the key here for me is to eliminate those probable causes above then jump into the nVidia Vision Kit and HOPEFULLY stick with it without having to go all out on nVidia ONLY glasses.
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post #13 of 102 Old 12-24-2010, 10:17 AM
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Ok, just to clarify, there are two problems (sync and invert), both related, sync maybe could be fixed at 100% invert will be partially fixed (invert key) as Mathew Orman said, regards.
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post #14 of 102 Old 12-24-2010, 10:31 AM
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Will you stop your Anti-DLP-link propaganda Icester ?
His DLP link system is working fine, the problem lies somewhere between the computer hardware and the projector hardware, not between the projector and the glasses and is not related to DLP-link. (That is why his thread was removed)

The fact that stereoscopic player's software pageflipping manages to keep count and self-correct instantly (no left/right inversion, only freezes) is very unusual.
The frame count is correct but something is holding the graphics card back at key moments.

It could be an insufficient CPU power, (do you have lower definition videos to try what happens when you have lower CPU usage ?)
Or maybe a software issue. Do you use any software that would modify the hardware frequencies ? (overclocking software ? Energy saving modes that change the CPU frequency)
Or anything with the video decoding software (I have never seen issues with it but would you be using the video software Re-clock ?)

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)

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post #15 of 102 Old 12-24-2010, 10:45 AM
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The following quote from the Optoma Website FAQ section has several interesting statements some of which I have highlighted:
"
Q2: What do you need to view 3D images?
Projector – Optoma projector with 3D compatibility Active lens 3D glasses (DLP® Link™ glasses or NVIDIA 3D glasses / IR emitter) Content – must be created in 3D Drivers to generate 3D graphics Computer Gaming – there are many 3D computer gaming titles available. NVIDIA® 3D Vision™ emitter or similar and active lens 3D glasses are required to view these stereoscopic titles using an Optoma 3D compatible projector. Education – a limited number of companies are developing computer software in 3D stereoscopic format to enhance the learning experience. Content providers include EON Reality, Stereoscopic Media Play, Classroom3, Designmate and Neotek. The program must be capable of generating a 3D image. Special applications – computer programs and content has been developed enabling 3D training for corporate, medical and government applications. Digital images – stereoscopic software enables digital photos to be transformed into 3D and displayed from a compatible computer. A compatible graphics card, drivers and active lens 3D glasses are required to view images. DVD titles - there are a limited number of 3D DVD titles created in HQFS (frame sequential / stereoscopic) format that can be viewed using an Optoma 3D compatible projector and DLP Link glasses. Blu-ray – a standard has been established and equipment and titles should be available in 2010. A set top converter box will be required to view content using a 3D compatible projector and active lens 3D glasses. Broadcast – several stations are being launched to provide sports, movies and other stereoscopic programming. A set top converter box will be required to view content using a 3D compatible projector and active lens 3D glasses.
"
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post #16 of 102 Old 12-24-2010, 10:52 AM
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I really was thinking the same...... about the DLP link conspiracy (joke), for me I just made a fresh install of Win7 and nvidia drivers, and had exactly the same results as before, I tryied also to connect only usb emitter to the MOBO, to don't affect the transfer rate, turned off every possible power saver, and same luck.... , I don't think it's power consumption or cpu usage related because I see more often out of sync results from the image viewer than the media players (nvidia and 3DTV)
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post #17 of 102 Old 12-24-2010, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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There we are. A lot more variables for me to nail down. Thanks so much guys... keep them coming!

Here is someone that appears to have the same issue:
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopi...&t=650&start=0
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post #18 of 102 Old 12-24-2010, 10:59 AM
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I have a friend that's using optoma glasses with the Nvdia IR emitter, I will try to contact him, he used an EDID override, I don't know if that helped him to make that work, but I will try to post usefull information soon, regards.
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post #19 of 102 Old 12-24-2010, 11:03 AM
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One more thing, the Nvidia 3D vision compatibility website does not list the GT218 as capable of 3D BluRay playback at all (even in CPU only). So I don't think this card will ever accelerate any format, even lower definition video.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/3d-visi...uirements.html

The only thing it may do is unlock the quad buffer to stabilise the ouput.

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post #20 of 102 Old 12-24-2010, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShark; View Post

Will you stop your Anti-DLP-link propaganda Icester ?
His DLP link system is working fine, the problem lies somewhere between the computer hardware and the projector hardware, not between the projector and the glasses and is not related to DLP-link. (That is why his thread was removed)

The fact that stereoscopic player's software pageflipping manages to keep count and self-correct instantly (no left/right inversion, only freezes) is very unusual.
The frame count is correct but something is holding the graphics card back at key moments.

It could be an insufficient CPU power, (do you have lower definition videos to try what happens when you have lower CPU usage ?)
Or maybe a software issue. Do you use any software that would modify the hardware frequencies ? (overclocking software ? Energy saving modes that change the CPU frequency)
Or anything with the video decoding software (I have never seen issues with it but would you be using the video software Re-clock ?)

CPU power should be more than sufficient as the laptop runs a Core2Duo at 2.8GHz. I will certainly try something lower and something "official".

Software. The HTPC is overclocked from 1.8 to 2GHz Atom but the laptop is not... The laptop is on max performance.

Again the easiest way to describe what I THINK it appears like is when you're playing anaglyphs and for a moment the red/blue is switched.

What I haven't nailed down is if it happens with any consistency in the same clip. I don't believe so but hey, it's a check.

Is there any type of Live CD to use to cut out Windows? Too bad XBMC won't software page flip or use nVidia HW to do so.

Is the nVidia dongle which unlocks the hardware page flipping the magic bullet? I don't know, but I certainly hope so... If not, at the very least I should be able to use PowerDVD 10 in DLP Link mode to cut out the Stereoscopic Player portion as well (and I just bought it too)...
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post #21 of 102 Old 12-24-2010, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShark; View Post

One more thing, the Nvidia 3D vision compatibility website does not list the GT218 as capable of 3D BluRay playback at all (even in CPU only). So I don't think this card will ever accelerate any format, even lower definition video.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/3d-visi...uirements.html

The only thing it may do is unlock the quad buffer to stabilise the ouput.

The GT218 is specifically capable and advertised for 3D Vision (not Blu-ray). The driver allows for 3D selection so it should work for 3D media (and VERY light gaming). In contrast the 9400m on my laptop doesn't expose the 3D option in the nVidia panel.

Sorry I'm on the iPad but a quick search for "Asrock ION 3D" would give you an idea on that one.

Right here: http://www.asrock.com/nettop/overvie...%203D%20Series
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post #22 of 102 Old 12-24-2010, 11:20 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShark View Post

Will you stop your Anti-DLP-link propaganda Icester ?
His DLP link system is working fine, the problem lies somewhere between the computer hardware and the projector hardware, not between the projector and the glasses and is not related to DLP-link. (That is why his thread was removed)

The fact that stereoscopic player's software pageflipping manages to keep count and self-correct instantly (no left/right inversion, only freezes) is very unusual.
The frame count is correct but something is holding the graphics card back at key moments.

It could be an insufficient CPU power, (do you have lower definition videos to try what happens when you have lower CPU usage ?)
Or maybe a software issue. Do you use any software that would modify the hardware frequencies ? (overclocking software ? Energy saving modes that change the CPU frequency)
Or anything with the video decoding software (I have never seen issues with it but would you be using the video software Re-clock ?)

The thread was removed becasue I've posted a solution to the problem in form of commercial product of mine and that is not allowed here.

The DLP-Link glasses will sync with frames but not with frame content.

Here is the statement from TI:

-------------------------------
Dear Mathew,

Thank you for your interest in DLP(r) Link.

You are correct that DLP 3D Ready projectors do not support the DLP HDTV
checkerboard input as the display devices used in our projectors and our
HDTVs are made differently. The DLP 3D Ready projectors do, however,
support 120 Hz or 60 Hz inputs as well as 120 Hz output frequencies.

The native format for the DLP 3D Ready projectors is frame sequential 3D
(as opposed to checkerboard, side-by-side, or over/under). The benefit
of using this format is that there is no compression of the image as in
the other 3D formats, but the drawback is that the projector must know
how to decode which frame is used for the left eye and which frame is
used for the right eye. There are many proprietary encoding and decoding
formats that will allow the frame sequential source material to insert
metadata into the content to mark each frame and have the display device
decode it correctly, but unfortunately, there is no mainstream standard
of how to do this with current 3D content. Current DLP 3D Ready
projectors, therefore, do not automatically support this type of
automatic left/right detection. Most, if not all, DLP 3D Ready
projectors have a menu control to invert the L/R sequence if a pseudo
stereoscopic condition exists. The same control also exists on most 3D
software and 3D compatible PC graphics cards.

In recent months, this 3D standard situation has changed with the
adoption of the HDMI v1.4a standard. This standard defines 7 different
3D formats that all display devices must support. Since it is a digital
interface, the content is in a fixed format and it is very easy for the
display device to know which frame is used for left eye and which is
used for right eye. Our more recent home theater 1080p DLP projectors
that support HDMI v1.4a (including BluRay) formats do not have the
problem of pseudo stereoscopic image display. As more and more of the
DLP 3D Ready projectors adopt support for the HDMI v1.4a standard, the
pseudo stereoscopic issue will no longer be an issue.

Sincerely,

DLP(r) Call Center
Texas Instruments
888-357-2984
www.dlp.com


-------------------------------

Mathew Orman
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post #23 of 102 Old 12-24-2010, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ualnosaj View Post

The GT218 is specifically capable and advertised for 3D Vision (not Blu-ray). The driver allows for 3D selection so it should work for 3D media (and VERY light gaming). In contrast the 9400m on my laptop doesn't expose the 3D option in the nVidia panel.

Sorry I'm on the iPad but a quick search for "Asrock ION 3D" would give you an idea on that one.

Right here: http://www.asrock.com/nettop/overvie...%203D%20Series

I see a big "3DTV play" logo on that web page (these computers are also listed as supported in the Nvidia 3DTV play hardware requirement page).
But I do not see any mention of Nvidia 3D Vision. (these computers are not listed as supported and neither are these graphics cards in the Nvidia 3D Vision hardware requirement page))

3D Vision and 3DTV play are two different products.
The HD66 works with 3D vision as it requires the 120Hz output, 3DTV play does not support this projector : it uses hdmi1.4 instead.

You may get lucky and have 3D Vision working if you plug the emitter but there's no guarantee it will work.
If it does not, you are stuck with software mode only.

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)

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post #24 of 102 Old 12-24-2010, 11:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ualnosaj View Post

CPU power should be more than sufficient as the laptop runs a Core2Duo at 2.8GHz. I will certainly try something lower and something "official".

Software. The HTPC is overclocked from 1.8 to 2GHz Atom but the laptop is not... The laptop is on max performance.

Again the easiest way to describe what I THINK it appears like is when you're playing anaglyphs and for a moment the red/blue is switched.

What I haven't nailed down is if it happens with any consistency in the same clip. I don't believe so but hey, it's a check.

Is there any type of Live CD to use to cut out Windows? Too bad XBMC won't software page flip or use nVidia HW to do so.

Is the nVidia dongle which unlocks the hardware page flipping the magic bullet? I don't know, but I certainly hope so... If not, at the very least I should be able to use PowerDVD 10 in DLP Link mode to cut out the Stereoscopic Player portion as well (and I just bought it too)...

Sorry,
I've missed that.
Here is an explanation.
Software page-flip used to work when Stereoscopic Player had blue-line code for making left and right frames.
Now Peter Wimmer says it is no longer there becasue of some patent issues. In any case it will never work correctly as any glitch can flip the eye order giving pseudo-stereo since DLP-Link on projectors does not use blue-line code or any other method of tagging left and right images.
See the TI statement.

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post #25 of 102 Old 12-24-2010, 11:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShark; View Post

I see a big "3DTV play" logo on that web page (these computers are also listed as supported in the Nvidia 3DTV play hardware requirement page).
But I do not see any mention of Nvidia 3D Vision. (these computers are not listed as supported and neither are these graphics cards in the Nvidia 3D Vision hardware requirement page))

3D Vision and 3DTV play are two different products.
The HD66 works with 3D vision as it requires the 120Hz output, 3DTV play does not support this projector : it uses hdmi1.4 instead.

You may get lucky and have 3D Vision working if you plug the emitter but there's no guarantee it will work.
If it does not, you are stuck with software mode only.

You had me going there until I remember reading on the 3D requirements matrix on nVidia that any GT200 series is capable of 3D movie (not bluray) and 3D play. One sec...

I don't mind building a super PC to do this but this is getting crazy The biggest problem is my HTPCs are small form factor or half height which precludes the use of new vid cards :|


HERE: http://www.nvidia.com/object/3d-visi...uirements.html

Under the 100/200 series for 3D movie file playback... am I off base here? If it is, do tell me so I'm not going down the wrong rabbit hole



@ Mathew, thanks for the explanation!

@ All, thanks for keeping this thread clean from big arguments
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post #26 of 102 Old 12-24-2010, 11:34 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ualnosaj View Post

The GT218 is specifically capable and advertised for 3D Vision (not Blu-ray). The driver allows for 3D selection so it should work for 3D media (and VERY light gaming). In contrast the 9400m on my laptop doesn't expose the 3D option in the nVidia panel.

Sorry I'm on the iPad but a quick search for "Asrock ION 3D" would give you an idea on that one.

Right here: http://www.asrock.com/nettop/overvie...%203D%20Series

For 3D Blue-ray playback on PC all is required is the TDvision's MVC decoder such as one that comes with
PowerDVD 10 and TotalMedia Theatre 3.
Those do not require GPU power but only CPU one.

Mathew Orman
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post #27 of 102 Old 12-24-2010, 11:41 AM
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There was an other quote from your email conversations with TI you published in your precious thread with TI that said it's up to the projector to sync with content and pass the info to DLP-link.

If you want to blame someone : blame the projector manufacturer for choosing blind frame alternate transmission with manual invert, don't blame TI, because DLP-link is only doing what it's designed to do, and it' doing it just fine.

The DLP statement you quoted says it clearly, the new DLP projectors (the expensive 1080p ones which use hdmi1.4 inputs) do not have the sync issues.

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)

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post #28 of 102 Old 12-24-2010, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ualnosaj View Post

Under the 100/200 series for 3D movie file playback... am I off base here? If it is, do tell me so I'm not going down the wrong rabbit hole

Unfortunately it's like in insurance contracts, the devil is in the small details :

Your graphics card is a :
Quote:


NVIDIA® GT218-ION Graphics

What is stated in the compatible chart is a :
Quote:


GeForce 200/100 series

(you showed this to me 10 minutes ago, I didn't notice it before)

The Nvidia ION series of graphics card is different from the Nvidia Geforce series of graphics cards, it's a different line of specialized chips designed specifically for low power portable applications.
If it works, you're really lucky.

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)

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post #29 of 102 Old 12-24-2010, 11:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShark View Post

There was an other quote from your email conversations with TI you published in your precious thread with TI that said it's up to the projector to sync with content and pass the info to DLP-link.

If you want to blame someone : blame the projector manufacturer for choosing blind frame alternate transmission with manual invert, don't blame TI, because DLP-link is only doing what it's designed to do, and it' doing it just fine.

The DLP statement you quoted says it clearly, the new DLP projectors (the expensive 1080p ones which use hdmi1.4 inputs) do not have the sync issues.

It is only you who speaks about blaming for the defect.
My post are simply to inform that problem exist and provide the remedy.

Mathew Orman
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post #30 of 102 Old 12-24-2010, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok folks. Here is my action plan:

1. rebuild more powerful box with XP and use SP with software page flip
2. try lower res 3D file with existing setup
3. try as is with 3D Vision Kit coming (hope this is the key)
4. throw more money down a new rabbit hole and build a super power for 3D with the nVidia Vision Kit -- using DLP Link

This was supposed to be easy... :|
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