Good Graphics cards for PC to use with Bluray3d and 3d gaming? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 65 Old 12-26-2010, 10:01 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a computer I am pretty sure is powerful enough for 3d blurays and I know is powerful enough for 3d gaming as I have done it with my ati 4350hd. However I want a more powerful graphics card for 3d bluray and for some 3d games as my current card is too weak for games like Street fighter 4. I prefer Nvidia but don't want to use the vision kit. I have a Samsung PN58C7000 and Denon 1611. What current cards do you suggest? Computer uses pci express slot.
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post #2 of 65 Old 12-26-2010, 11:52 PM
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To do comfortable 3D gaming on your TV you need a GTX460 or 5770 or higher. You may as well go with ATI if you don't plan on using 3D vision as the only other 3D option for PC gaming and your TV is IZ3D, which is free to ATI video card users.
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post #3 of 65 Old 12-27-2010, 02:05 AM - Thread Starter
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-What are the benefits of 3d vision over iz3d, and would you say those benefits are worth the money spent?

-Does the GT540 require 3d vision for 3d gaming or can I use iz3d? Anything wrong with the Tridef software? I have used that in the past successfully with my current card.

-Just to confirm, both these cards will give me 3d bluray playback on my PC with FullHD 3d quality?
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post #4 of 65 Old 12-27-2010, 03:27 AM
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I'd say 5850 is the minimum for 720p 3d. (GTX460 is nearly twice as fast as 5770, GTX can be overclocked by 25-30% )

Radeon 58xx and 6xxx have the benefit of MLAA, which is basically anti aliasing for free , thats a huge advantage, because several big name games won't let you use traditional MSAA or its so expensive its not worth it. We wait and hope for nvidias answer to that.
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post #5 of 65 Old 12-27-2010, 04:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disolitude View Post

To do comfortable 3D gaming on your TV you need a GTX460 or 5770 or higher. You may as well go with ATI if you don't plan on using 3D vision as the only other 3D option for PC gaming and your TV is IZ3D, which is free to ATI video card users.

Your info is not up date.
With this tv, both DDD and IZ3D drivers are compatible though ATI's HD3D feature. These drivers are not free. They offer special prices to ATI customers though.
If you go with Nvidia, you could still use both DDD and IZ3D drivers but they don't supprt Nvidia's 3DTV Play output yet, so you will have to use the legacy outputs for now (side by side, etc).
Quality wise, they are almost at the same level they all have some feature that the others lack, or some game that work better than with the others.
However for beginners, 3D Vision is the easiest to use but with minomal tweaking, then comes DDD and IZ3D is the hardest to use. Since you have already tried them, you know which one you prefer.

Passive 3D, forever !

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post #6 of 65 Old 12-27-2010, 05:26 AM
 
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Originally Posted by sfetaz View Post

I have a computer I am pretty sure is powerful enough for 3d blurays and I know is powerful enough for 3d gaming as I have done it with my ati 4350hd. However I want a more powerful graphics card for 3d bluray and for some 3d games as my current card is too weak for games like Street fighter 4. I prefer Nvidia but don't want to use the vision kit. I have a Samsung PN58C7000 and Denon 1611. What current cards do you suggest? Computer uses pci express slot.

If you want the best performance under Windows 7 you must use nVidia and 3D Vision Kit.
nVidia has an agreement with Microsoft which an exclusive deal so competitors like ATI do not get native DirecX support.
If you choose ATI you will have to use third party hackware for games and Blu-ray.
Also the only glasses that support ATI will be the HDMI 1.4 equipped TVs like Plasmas and rear projection DLPs.

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post #7 of 65 Old 12-27-2010, 07:26 AM
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Only two Mits 2010 RP DLP models, the xx738 and xx838 models, are HDMI 1.4 equipped so are you saying that all of the other 3D RP DLP TVs from Mits and Samung which have HDMI 1.3 receiver chips and which only support 720p 3D frame 3D or 3D checkerboard format can not be used with the ATI software and the glasses that work with it?
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post #8 of 65 Old 12-27-2010, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by icester View Post

If you choose ATI you will have to use third party hackware for games and Blu-ray.

Mathew Orman

HA ha ha, Cyberlink PDVD10 3D is hackware???
And we know what games you play.
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post #9 of 65 Old 12-27-2010, 11:23 AM
 
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Originally Posted by walford View Post

Only two Mits 2010 RP DLP models, the xx738 and xx838 models, are HDMI 1.4 equipped so are you saying that all of the other 3D RP DLP TVs from Mits and Samung which have HDMI 1.3 receiver chips and which only support 720p 3D frame 3D or 3D checkerboard format can not be used with the ATI software and the glasses that work with it?

Yes,
the ATI does not output eye sync signals trough VESA so there is no way to plug any LCS glasses like nVidia have.

Mathew Orman
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post #10 of 65 Old 12-27-2010, 11:25 AM
 
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HA ha ha, Cyberlink PDVD10 3D is hackware???
And we know what games you play.

No,
but it requires HDMI 1.4 output and 3D TV.
You cannot use 3D ready monitors like the ones that support nVidia.

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post #11 of 65 Old 12-27-2010, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icester View Post

Yes,
the ATI does not output eye sync signals trough VESA so there is no way to plug any LCS glasses like nVidia have.

Mathew Orman

Please clarify this statement. On my former 65737 with an ATI 4350hd I was able to view videos and games in 3d successfully via hdmi with my pc directly connected. I used tridef for the games and stereoscopic player for the videos. Does this mean on my former setup that the 3d processing is 100% software based? If so what are the advantages to hardware based?
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post #12 of 65 Old 12-27-2010, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icester View Post

Yes,
the ATI does not output eye sync signals trough VESA so there is no way to plug any LCS glasses like nVidia have.

Mathew Orman

But why does that mean that they can not use DLP-Link glasses instead?
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post #13 of 65 Old 12-27-2010, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icester View Post

No,
but it requires HDMI 1.4 output and 3D TV.
You cannot use 3D ready monitors like the ones that support nVidia.

Mathew Orman

Wake up dude, you are way behind the curve. PDVD10 works with HDMI 1.3 120Hz 3D projectors.
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post #14 of 65 Old 12-27-2010, 06:19 PM
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Nvidia 460 or something would be good if you like nvidia.. (as a note I know 3d vision didn't initially support hdmi 1.4, but was supposed to add it when 3dtv play was released. Now I'm hearing they've updated 3d vision to work with hdmi 1.4 directly - is that true? Can anyone confirm if that's correct? If so cool - if it's not, you may have to wait for 3dtv play to work with nvidia.


With ATI, 6xxx and probably 5xxx series are compatible with hdmi 1.4 displays (I don't know anyone who has tested a 5xxx on a 1.4 system). 6xxx has the added advantage of built-in bluray 3d accelleration, so it reduces the cpu load. Probably not critical, but nice enough that I'd recommend a 6850 or 6870. The only issue I'm aware of is 1080p implementation isn't really right yet (users have reported no 24hz support, and the cable won't work properly with frame packed 60hz). But if you use 720p it's all fine, and I'm betting the 1080p thing is just a driver issue, so would likely be corrected in a future revision.

3d vision probably has similar quirks over hdmi 1.4, but having never tried it in that configuration I can't really speak on that.


Either system will work fine with the above caveats. Before you take icester's naysaying into account, do a search for his posts - he's got some kind of vendetta against ati & dlp link. I recommend you confirm that, realize what he is, and treat his posts accordingly (I love the "ATI doesn't get native directx support" bit, that's a good laugh).

Meanwhile, plenty of us are using ati for 3d and loving it. I've used both ati and nvidia (6870 vs. gtx 285) and both work well, but I just sold my 3d vision kit, so you know what I liked better. ATI had a rough launch of their 3d driver integration, but they've got it worked out now and it works like a dream.
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post #15 of 65 Old 12-27-2010, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by defiancecp View Post

Nvidia 460 or something would be good if you like nvidia.. (as a note I know 3d vision didn't initially support hdmi 1.4, but was supposed to add it when 3dtv play was released. Now I'm hearing they've updated 3d vision to work with hdmi 1.4 directly - is that true? Can anyone confirm if that's correct? If so cool - if it's not, you may have to wait for 3dtv play to work with nvidia.

I just bought a Palit 1gb GTS 450 (hasn't arrived in the mail yet). I bought it specifically because of the 1.4 HDMI support (read below) w/ TrueHD and DTS/MA sound support (won't need a sound card, or the stock motherboard sound card), 3D Vision compatibility across the board, and a low cost of $109 after rebate. Easy to overclock and it'll be the same as the "platinum" factory-overclocked model that sells for about $20 more. I currently have a 4850/1gb and attempted to replace it with a 5770/1gb, but when I ran the PassMark benchmark software on the 5770, it was only faster (slightly) than the 4850 in only the 3D rendering, but only slightly. Not much of an upgrade, so I sold it at a loss on Ebay (next time I'll RMA at 15% restocking loss). Hopefully this GTS 450 fairs better. All the reviews I've read shown that it's on par with the 5770 before overclocking, but pales in comparison to the GTX 460. Unless I can really see the difference, I don't really care, but I do care about cost.


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GeForce® GTS 450 Sonic (1024MB GDDR5)
With up to 17% higher the DirectX 11 geometry processing power over the competing GPUs, Palit GeForce® GTS450 Sonic Overclocking Edition dominates the competition and offers amazing game realism on the latest title like Civilization V. Equipped with the latest industry leading technologies including NVIDIA 3D Vision and NVIDIA PhysX, Palit GeForce® GTS450 Sonic is the most cost effective model.


Specifications
  • Bus interface: PCI Express 2.0 Support
  • NVIDIA GeForce® Driver
  • Microsoft DirectX11 support
  • NVIDIA 3D Vision Ready
  • NVIDIA PhysX technology
  • NVIDIA CUDA technology
  • NVIDIA SLI Ready
  • Hardware Video Decode Acceleration
  • OpenGL 4.0 Support
  • Dual-link DVI Support
  • HDMI 1.4a Support
  • TrueHD and DTS-HD Audio Bitstreaming Support

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post #16 of 65 Old 12-27-2010, 08:51 PM
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Report: Majority of Consumers Not Interested in 3DTV
Posted by Shane Smith on Dec 21, 2010 under news

Backers and buyers of 3DTVs may be disappointed by recent data released by research giant Nielsen, which reveal that the majority of consumers both worldwide and in the US are unlikely to buy 3DTV sets.

According to Nielsen's numbers, only 3% of surveyed consumers in the US expressed interest in purchasing a 3DTV during the next 12 months. That number goes up to about 10% when worldwide consumers are factored in.

Still grimmer for the 3DTV movement is the percentage of American respondents who declared that they would not be purchasing 3D sets, which stands at nearly 60%.

3D in the home, at least at this point, still comes across as an overpriced gimmick to the majority of consumers, especially Americans. Do you think that perception will ever change, Insiders, or will 3DTV join the ranks of the Laser Disc and DAT in a few years?

(via GigaOm)
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post #17 of 65 Old 12-27-2010, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j007m View Post

Report: Majority of Consumers Not Interested in 3DTV
Posted by Shane Smith on Dec 21, 2010 under news

Backers and buyers of 3DTVs may be disappointed by recent data released by research giant Nielsen, which reveal that the majority of consumers both worldwide and in the US are unlikely to buy 3DTV sets.

According to Nielsen’s numbers, only 3% of surveyed consumers in the US expressed interest in purchasing a 3DTV during the next 12 months. That number goes up to about 10% when worldwide consumers are factored in.

Still grimmer for the 3DTV movement is the percentage of American respondents who declared that they would not be purchasing 3D sets, which stands at nearly 60%.

3D in the home, at least at this point, still comes across as an overpriced gimmick to the majority of consumers, especially Americans. Do you think that perception will ever change, Insiders, or will 3DTV join the ranks of the Laser Disc and DAT in a few years?

(via GigaOm)

Surveys and polls are like a-holes; They're everywhere. I just heard on the radio that Pres. Obama has been named (for the 3rd time in a row) the Most Admired Man in the world. And Hillary Clinton is Most Admired Woman. Link Here In other words, I don't know who they're polling and where they're getting their data, but if you listen to most people, these two rank pretty low on the admiration list -- unless the list you had to select from was very short.

So I take that survey about 3D tv with a grain of salt. It's only a general survey, and what does Nielsen tend to gain by the 3D movement? Sales numbers and other factors are the bigger indicator and besides, this thing has just begun. I mean, when has any "new" technology taken off with a BANG? They haven't even ironed out the compatibility issues or came up with a "standard". Sure, 1.4 HDMI is the new kid on the block, but for how long? Not long ago we had Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD, and we just went to an all Digital (no analog) TV signal. Give it time. I mean, look at the cost of flat panel monitors. I never thought you'd see a 17 or 19" LCD monitor in the sub $100 range, but there they are. Soon enough, every TV will be capable of 3D and not long after that, they probably won't even need TV's to project the image, just some hologram.

Even myself, I was against 3D and decided to buy a 1080p projector instead of the 720p 3D projector I really wanted, but here I am, 4 months later and I'm really looking forward to buying a 720p 3D projector. People change... I mean, I really hated FPS games, but 3 weeks ago I got sucked into playing Fallout 3 on my Xbox and man... if only it was in 3D... and the rest is history. Hopefully by next weekend I'll be playing this game via my HTPC instead of the Xbox.
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post #18 of 65 Old 12-27-2010, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j007m View Post

Report: Majority of Consumers Not Interested in 3DTV
Posted by Shane Smith on Dec 21, 2010 under news

Backers and buyers of 3DTVs may be disappointed by recent data released by research giant Nielsen, which reveal that the majority of consumers both worldwide and in the US are unlikely to buy 3DTV sets.

According to Nielsen’s numbers, only 3% of surveyed consumers in the US expressed interest in purchasing a 3DTV during the next 12 months. That number goes up to about 10% when worldwide consumers are factored in.

Still grimmer for the 3DTV movement is the percentage of American respondents who declared that they would not be purchasing 3D sets, which stands at nearly 60%.

3D in the home, at least at this point, still comes across as an overpriced gimmick to the majority of consumers, especially Americans. Do you think that perception will ever change, Insiders, or will 3DTV join the ranks of the Laser Disc and DAT in a few years?

(via GigaOm)

More FUD under an assumed name (two posts, and exactly the same "info" in both posts)

Here's the actual link. http://www.insideredbox.com/report-majority-of-consumers-not-interested-in-3dtv/#more-4467 which links to another link, http://gigaom.com/video/home-3d-is-doa/ which links to the study itself http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/consumer/purchase-intent-for-3dtv-varies-around-the-globe/

Quote:


After watching the 3DTV content reel, six in ten participants agreed that the content was better than their current 2DTV viewing, and nearly half (48%) found it more engaging. They also stated that it made them feel like they were part of the action (57%) and closer to the characters (48%).

27,000 online consumers surveyed to represent the entire world. The summary gives this reason for the lack of enthusiasm:

Quote:


“Our research shows that, despite positive perceptions towards 3DTV programming, consumers are still hesitant to invest in 3DTV sets – opting to take a ‘wait and see’ approach,” said Frank Stagliano, EVP/GM of TV Primary Research for Nielsen. “Recent technology battles between plasma and LCD or blu-ray and HD DVDs have trained consumers to wait until widespread adoption is more likely. This drives down cost, making technology more affordable.”

Nowhere in the actual study do you find this quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by j007m View Post

[snip] ... 3D in the home, at least at this point, still comes across as an overpriced gimmick to the majority of consumers, especially Americans. ... [snip]

Seems to me that the author is biased and making his own conclusions. Read it yourself.

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post #19 of 65 Old 12-28-2010, 04:00 AM
 
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Wake up dude, you are way behind the curve. PDVD10 works with HDMI 1.3 120Hz 3D projectors.
Yes,
I am awake. 120 Hz quad buffer output is only supported trough nVidia USB IR emitter. ATI does not output eye sync in any form at all.

Mathew Orman
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post #20 of 65 Old 12-28-2010, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
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Yes,
I am awake. 120 Hz quad buffer output is only supported trough nVidia USB IR emitter. ATI does not output eye sync in any form at all.

Mathew Orman

120hz quad buffer output is supported by ATI or Nvidia. Please stop trying to confuse people by implying that quad buffer requires an eye specification, the two features are completely different things. While I agree with you that DLP functionality would be better with sync, the current implementation works brilliantly with the only caveat being a need to set eye sync when starting 3d. Further, ATI does support eye output sync via hdmi 1.4 - which unlike your 120hz post, actually relates to this post.

I understand you're not going to give up on your spam crusade, but could you at LEAST keep that crap out of unrelated threads?



Anyway, back to topic: a 450 should be OK. I used a 5750 for a while, which is similar-to-slower than a 450, and it wasn't optimal (had to turn down settings sometimes to get good speed), but it would play just about anything fine.
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post #21 of 65 Old 12-28-2010, 03:33 PM
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I am using a GTX 470 and I am happy with the performance. Its not super-fast, but its adequate if you adjust the settings. It also supports 3DBD. If you go with AMD make sure to get a 6000 series as those are the ones with 3DBD support. Personally I think Nvidia is a better way to go, but it should work with either brand.


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post #22 of 65 Old 12-28-2010, 08:07 PM
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Palit GTX 460 1GB (NE5X460SF1102), $129 AR http://slickdeals.net/permadeal/4364...video-card-120
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post #23 of 65 Old 12-28-2010, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok say i get the gtx460. Do I need to pay for 3d vision kit to get 1080p 3d gaming and fullhd 3d bluray support? I dont need more glasses so I dont want to spend an extra $200 for nothing if there are free or cheap options.
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post #24 of 65 Old 12-28-2010, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfetaz View Post
Ok say i get the gtx460. Do I need to pay for 3d vision kit to get 1080p 3d gaming and fullhd 3d bluray support? I dont need more glasses so I dont want to spend an extra $200 for nothing if there are free or cheap options.
Depends on which display you're using it with. I can only assume with LCD/LED 3D TV's this is possible, but I'm going to use mine with a projector, and that PJ is only capable of doing 720p, so i'm kind of out of luck on the full HD resolution, but at this price, I think it'll be great for gaming without having to worry about any dropped frames (i'll return the GTS 450 locally once it arrives in the mail. Not sure why I had it mailed, but at least I can return it locally).

You can get the ATI cards (5000/6000 series) and run 3D using 3rd party drivers like iZ3D. But if you use a Nvidia card, yeah, you'll need Nvidia 3D Vision. Most games are already "made for" Nvidia games, so having the 3D Vision and update drivers is pretty seamless. I tried a trial version of iZ3D and used the cheap yellow and blue paper glasses and it looked pretty decent, but I didn't like the driver utility. I'm willing to give Nvidia a shot.

I'll assume you already have a 3D capable TV with shutter glasses. You're probably better off getting an ATI card and using the 3rd party drivers if you don't want to spend another "$200" on the Nvidia kit and buying an Nvidia video card (GTX460). You'd save more money as well. I bought my kit the other day on Ebay for $140. I just hope the seller (thenerds) comes through as they're notorious for selling stuff they don't have in stock.
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post #25 of 65 Old 12-28-2010, 08:55 PM
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Depends on which display you're using it with. I can only assume with LCD/LED 3D TV's this is possible, but I'm going to use mine with a projector, and that PJ is only capable of doing 720p, so i'm kind of out of luck on the full HD resolution, but at this price, I think it'll be great for gaming without having to worry about any dropped frames (i'll return the GTS 450 locally once it arrives in the mail. Not sure why I had it mailed, but at least I can return it locally).
Actually he won't be able to do 1080p gaming if the has a new LED/LCD/Plasma 3D TV no matter which card he has. The new 3D TVs only do 1080p at 24 frames, which is meant for bluray playback. Anything over 24 frames per second is done at 720p. ITs the limitation on the TVs themselves...
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post #26 of 65 Old 12-28-2010, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disolitude View Post
Actually he won't be able to do 1080p gaming if the has a new LED/LCD/Plasma 3D TV no matter which card he has. The new 3D TVs only do 1080p at 24 frames, which is meant for bluray playback. Anything over 24 frames per second is done at 720p. ITs the limitation on the TVs themselves...
Will he be able to achieve this if he has the DLP tv's?
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post #27 of 65 Old 12-28-2010, 09:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disolitude

Actually he won't be able to do 1080p gaming if the has a new LED/LCD/Plasma 3D TV no matter which card he has. The new 3D TVs only do 1080p at 24 frames, which is meant for bluray playback. Anything over 24 frames per second is done at 720p. ITs the limitation on the TVs themselves...
I have the samsung pn58c7000. I dont understand what you are saying. The ps3 outputs uncharted 2 from my ps3 to my tv at 1080p with 60 frames per second. So what exactly are you saying regarding a 24 fps limit at 1080p?
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post #28 of 65 Old 12-29-2010, 12:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok so I ran the powerdvd 3d advisor and it says my Samsung 3d tv is not compatible but my ati 4350 is compatible. Why is this? Is this saying I cannot use my TV for 3d bluray at all? What woukld happen if i tried? If i wanted to get an ati card do i need the 6800 at a minimum for this to work on my TV, or is it currently impossible to get fullhd quality bluray 3d to work? If I have no option for 1080p fullhd quality 3d bluray movies, then what is the minimum Ati card I would need for 1080p 3d gaming?

EDIT - Is there anyway to convert a 3D bluray movie into 2 seperate 1080p left and right video files to use in stereoscopic player to view off my pc onto my TV?
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post #29 of 65 Old 12-29-2010, 04:11 AM
 
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Originally Posted by defiancecp View Post

120hz quad buffer output is supported by ATI or Nvidia. Please stop trying to confuse people by implying that quad buffer requires an eye specification, the two features are completely different things. While I agree with you that DLP functionality would be better with sync, the current implementation works brilliantly with the only caveat being a need to set eye sync when starting 3d. Further, ATI does support eye output sync via hdmi 1.4 - which unlike your 120hz post, actually relates to this post.

I understand you're not going to give up on your spam crusade, but could you at LEAST keep that crap out of unrelated threads?



Anyway, back to topic: a 450 should be OK. I used a 5750 for a while, which is similar-to-slower than a 450, and it wasn't optimal (had to turn down settings sometimes to get good speed), but it would play just about anything fine.

This has nothing to do with then fact that TI and DLP-Link was denaided support from nVidia and Microsoft.

It is simply pointed that ATI is not serious about stereoscopic performance and thus not even implemented a simple VESA port on any of their products under windows 7.

If you think my post are spamming then why are you adding to it?

Instead there is a little button saying report this post.



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post #30 of 65 Old 12-29-2010, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by BishopLord View Post

Will he be able to achieve this if he has the DLP tv's?

No but DLP TVs do take the 1080p signal at 60 hz for 3D. They show it in checkerboard format to the gamer. So you are seeing 1/2 of 1080p pixels per eye in 3D since every second pixel is left blank for the second image...
This image has been shown many times to explain this best - http://cdn.hometheaterforum.com/4/4e...dlpchecker.jpg

While checkerboard 3D does look better than new 3D TV 720p frame packing for pc gaming...the only way to get true 1080p 3D gaming is to get nvidia 3D vision and a 3D capable 120 hz monitor.
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