3D format confusion: frame packing vs "top and bottom" - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 12 Old 12-27-2010, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Can't seem to find a good answer and I have ideas / plans that need a better answer before I can continue.

Main question: will a program like Stereoscopic Player play a "720p 60" framepacked 3d video stream?


The video stream would be coming from a capture card in my HTPC. Forget about the source of the video outside of the PC for now. I cannot figure out the difference between "top and bottom" and so called framepacking. Is framepacking just the new hdmi 1.4 fancy term for top and bottom?

Very confused, and hoping someone here can point me in the right direction, I do not yet have said capture card to test my idea.

Thanks !
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post #2 of 12 Old 12-27-2010, 02:32 PM
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TopBottom is a regular 1080p30, each frame containing both views, vertically squashed (half vertical resolution).
Frame-packed is both views in full resolution (1280x720 in this case) packed in a single 1280x1455(?) frame, with blank lines separating the two views. I doubt a card can capture this resolution, let alone at 60Hz.
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post #3 of 12 Old 12-27-2010, 02:36 PM
 
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1080P frame Packing (single frame)



720P Top/Bottom




1080i Side-by-Side

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post #4 of 12 Old 12-27-2010, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
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That clears things up nicely.

So based on that, is it crazy to think that a 3d PS3 video stream could be converted to 120hz frame sequential output via stereoscopic players "live view" ?


My crazy idea:

PS3 will only output 3d via hdmi, which is hdcp protected. It will also only switch to 3d mode if it sees the correct 3d EDID info coming from the display. It is my understanding (though this could be wrong) that as long as the EDID info contains the correct 3d format flags it will still work even if its not hdmi 1.4

Following this post here: http://dme.ghost2.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=17726

An HD Fury 2 or 3 can have its EDID info updated to support 3d formats. The post linked even states that it was tested as working with 720p60 PS3 3d output.

The whole idea of an HD Fury is to convert hdmi into vga / component. So if it can indeed trick the PS3 into outputting 3d to the hdfury, I would have component 720p60 framepacked 3d on the other end, HDCP free. Thats all in theory.

If then that component was hooked up to an Avermedia mtvhddvrr capture card (it captures up to 1080i HD via component) I was hopeful I could view the live video stream via stereoscopic player (it has a "live stream" option).

Now in fantasy land if everything up to that point actually works (insert laughing here), I do not know if Stereoscopic player could work with a framepacked stream. If it does I would convert it to 120hz frame sequential just like I do with all my video files, and send it to my 120hz projector.

The whole idea is to use my HTPC and for half the cost of Optoma's new 3d-xl box (around $250 or so)..... Play 3d games from my PS3 on my projector !

Why does this have to be so hard lol

I'm not trying to record anything, just play it live.... at this point I'm not even remotely worried about controller lag and such.... just trying to move the video stream down the path.....

/End crazy idea

Any thoughts ?
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post #5 of 12 Old 12-27-2010, 03:54 PM
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Optoma's 3DXL box allows you to receive any HDMI 1.4a 3D format such as 1080 Frame packed from a 3d BR player or 1080i SbS 3D format or 720p TnB format from a cable or satellite STB and convert that to 720p Frame sequential format and ouput it to a comnpatible projector at 120Hz. It does not have a built in HDD so it can not record anything. It is also designed for those user's that don't want to purchase and integrate into a PC the same functionality and have the responsibiity.
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post #6 of 12 Old 12-28-2010, 04:12 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonthorn View Post
Can't seem to find a good answer and I have ideas / plans that need a better answer before I can continue.

Main question: will a program like Stereoscopic Player play a "720p 60" framepacked 3d video stream?


The video stream would be coming from a capture card in my HTPC. Forget about the source of the video outside of the PC for now. I cannot figure out the difference between "top and bottom" and so called framepacking. Is framepacking just the new hdmi 1.4 fancy term for top and bottom?

Very confused, and hoping someone here can point me in the right direction, I do not yet have said capture card to test my idea.

Thanks !
Because you are comparing apples with pears.
Top and bottom or side by side are stereoscopic frame layouts. The frame packing refers to HDMI 1.4a video communication protocol which is low level hardware only and you have no access to it. It only lives in HDMI 1.4 cable.

Mathew Orman
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post #7 of 12 Old 12-28-2010, 07:49 AM
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The layout of the stacked frame buffer HDMI 1.4a 3D video format and the picures of the HDMI 1.4a SbS 3D video format and of the TnB 3D format in the Lee Stewart above post can all be sent over a HDMI High Speed cable from a device with either a HDMI 1.3 or a HDMI 1.4 transmitter chip to a 3D TV with a HDMI 1.4 receiver chip. The PS3 creates the packed frame format in it's firmware(note in any lowe level hardware) and outputs using it's 1.3 trasmitter chip. Cable and Satellit STBs output in either SbS or TNB format with their HDMI 1.3 transmitter chips.
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post #8 of 12 Old 12-28-2010, 08:08 AM
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Side by side and top bottom 3D content are frame-compatible and can be received with the Avermedia capture device but framepacking is a hdmi1.4 format and requires as hdmi1.4 compatible capture device, conventional capture cards will no work.

People have reported having the Avermedia capture card working with their satellite decoders, but I do not know if the PS3 will accept to output non-framepacked 3D for games. It may or may not work.

I have never seen proprietary PS3 captured 3D footage around the web (Wipeout, Motorstorm, Super Stardust ,etc), so if I were to guess, I'd be cautious and say it doesn't work.

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)

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post #9 of 12 Old 03-17-2011, 10:19 AM
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Quote:


is it crazy to think that a 3d PS3 video stream could be converted to 120hz frame sequential output via stereoscopic players "live view" ?

The Radiance 3D video processors can take 720p frame packed from a PS3 and convert it to frame-sequential 720p-120. We're working on an update to convert side-by-side and top-bottom formats as well.

Patrick Harkin, Lumagen Inc. engineer
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post #10 of 12 Old 03-17-2011, 10:37 AM
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zombie thread!
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post #11 of 12 Old 06-10-2012, 08:04 PM
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There are some screen shots of wipeout and super stardust here: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-sony-hmz-t1-personal-3d-viewer-review

There is also an official sony doc on the PS3 frame packed format here: http://www.thesixthaxis.com/2010/06/17/how-ps3-outputs-3d-video/
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post #12 of 12 Old 06-10-2012, 08:09 PM
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How about going back the other way? Creating a custom resolution of 1280x1470 (or 1280x1440) doesn't register on my sony HMZ... I will continue my quest, I think it could be the cable...
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