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post #1 of 65 Old 01-20-2011, 08:50 AM - Thread Starter
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good article about how 3D causes headaches in as many as 1 in 4 viewers but the companies push on betting this is the future. I don't wear glasses and will not wear glasses to watch 3D.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20110120/D9KS1FDO1.html

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post #2 of 65 Old 01-20-2011, 09:15 AM
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I have gotten headaches in the past at movie theaters, but not at home even after 3 hours of continuous 3d viewing. I think it is something your brain becomes accustomed to after a little bit of 'training'.
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post #3 of 65 Old 01-20-2011, 09:51 AM
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Lets look at the part of the article that gives the 25% statistic:

Based on an unscientific, online survey, the American Optometric Association estimates that 25 percent of Americans have experienced headaches, blurred vision, nausea or similar problems when viewing 3-D.

Note it says "unscientific", it says "estimates", and that the study was performed by an Optometric association.

Other reported complaints from 3D movies include people complaining that they cannot see the 3D. They are not getting headaches or eyestrain. Others do, of course, so 3D may not be for everybody.

Some people get more uncomfortable from active glasses systems than passive glasses, while others have more discomfort from passive glasses, such as are in the theaters. Also, that mismatch between the focus point and the convergence point of our eyes is clearly a real and valid issue, although it is debatable how important it is in the context of a limited entertainment activity.

I contend that 25% is a wild overestimate for the number of Americans that have "problems" with 3D. I am a 3D fan, so consider this source as well. But, I personally have suffered a lot more from too loud sound systems in theaters than I have from 3D - once I learned to sit further back.

It is fun enough to read and perhaps discuss problems with 3D. However, I liken it to people complaining about Rock and Roll in its early days.
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post #4 of 65 Old 01-20-2011, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by TrickMcKaha View Post

I contend that 25% is a wild overestimate for the number of Americans that have "problems" with 3D. I am a 3D fan, so consider this source as well.

I would think it is a fair approximation of how many people have had some kind of problem while watching 3D at some point, whether it was related to the 3D or not. Its not a fair approximation of how many people will have ongoing problems with 3D. The article also quotes manuals, which is nice and unscientific, as most disclaimers are just there to cover their asses. A group of optometrists have actually challenged that there is any evidence for Nintendo's warning for the 3DS.
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post #5 of 65 Old 01-20-2011, 11:12 AM
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Yes. I'm expecting to go to a store someday and find a warning label on a 3D TV: "Do Not Try This At Home."
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post #6 of 65 Old 01-20-2011, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taxman48 View Post

good article about how 3D causes headaches in as many as 1 in 4 viewers but the companies push on betting this is the future. I don't wear glasses and will not wear glasses to watch 3D.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20110120/D9KS1FDO1.html

That's a shame, 3D is so much better than 2D, that you should not allow a foolish prejudice to deny you it.
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post #7 of 65 Old 01-20-2011, 03:50 PM - Thread Starter
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good replies, wonder how far we are from glass-less 3D sets like 52" range?

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post #8 of 65 Old 01-20-2011, 04:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taxman48 View Post
good article about how 3D causes headaches in as many as 1 in 4 viewers but the companies push on betting this is the future. I don't wear glasses and will not wear glasses to watch 3D.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20110120/D9KS1FDO1.html
I have being for 30 years now.
I had a headache but only ones.
The future 3D and 2D is screen-less technology not glasses-less one.


Mathew Orman
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post #9 of 65 Old 01-20-2011, 04:29 PM
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... only the weak minded experience headaches.

Last Watched 3D: Oz the Great and Powerful

It should be called Violet-Ray

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post #10 of 65 Old 01-20-2011, 04:38 PM
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The headaches or other discomfort some people experience will not be affected by glasses or no-glasses. The problem is a disconnect between the eyes and the brain about where to focus. In a 3D presentation, the actual image is on a flat screen. That is where the eyes need to focus. But parts of the 3D image appear closer to the viewer, causing the eyes to focus on the near image. This actually makes the image, which is really on that flat screen, go out of focus. This is what it says in the article in the first post of this thread.

There isn't any way around this. Most people aren't overly sensitive to it. But if you are, going glasses-free isn't going to help.
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post #11 of 65 Old 01-20-2011, 05:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by bweissman View Post

The headaches or other discomfort some people experience will not be affected by glasses or no-glasses. The problem is a disconnect between the eyes and the brain about where to focus. In a 3D presentation, the actual image is on a flat screen. That is where the eyes need to focus. But parts of the 3D image appear closer to the viewer, causing the eyes to focus on the near image. This actually makes the image, which is really on that flat screen, go out of focus. This is what it says in the article in the first post of this thread.

There isn't any way around this. Most people aren't overly sensitive to it. But if you are, going glasses-free isn't going to help.

Sorry,

but that is total crap.
Focus have no effect on eye strain and is strictly convergence driven. The only signal that brain sends to eyes is to control convergence and focus is simply coupled in parallel to the same signal. It is not possible to just control focus alone.
Also blurry pictures are not a source of any headaches.

Mathew Orman
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post #12 of 65 Old 01-20-2011, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icester View Post

I have being for 30 years now.
I had a headache but only ones.
The future 3D and 2D is screen-less technology not glasses-less one.


Mathew Orman

Say what??

bweissman wrote:

Quote:


The headaches or other discomfort some people experience will not be affected by glasses or no-glasses. The problem is a disconnect between the eyes and the brain about where to focus. In a 3D presentation, the actual image is on a flat screen. That is where the eyes need to focus. But parts of the 3D image appear closer to the viewer, causing the eyes to focus on the near image. This actually makes the image, which is really on that flat screen, go out of focus. This is what it says in the article in the first post of this thread.

There isn't any way around this. Most people aren't overly sensitive to it. But if you are, going glasses-free isn't going to help.

Perfectly reasonable, and in keeping with the logic of the article, even if the 25% number comes out of a hat..although 25% seems like a perfectly sensible estimate...and I don't know why that would preclude success. Personally, I'm with a significant minority that thinks cell-phones are the most obnoxious inventions of all time. It doesn't stop the technology from marching on.
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post #13 of 65 Old 01-20-2011, 06:45 PM
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So I'm guessing you're not familiar with icester's posts...
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post #14 of 65 Old 01-21-2011, 12:35 AM
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I had read a study that said 3 out of 4 people make up 75% of the population.
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post #15 of 65 Old 01-21-2011, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Spoodily View Post

I had read a study that said 3 out of 4 people make up 75% of the population.

Total crap!
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post #16 of 65 Old 01-21-2011, 07:58 AM
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So far I've shown 14 different people 3D in my HT and after watching I have asked every single person if they have experienced eyestrain or headache. Not one person has complained and everyone has stated how much they liked the 3D! I was originally afraid that I would suffer from eyestrain because I have had problems with passive 3D. I've had no problems with active shutter glasses at all. 3D is the most impressive improvement I've seen in my HT - much better than going from upconverted 480p to real 1080p source material!
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post #17 of 65 Old 01-21-2011, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoodily View Post

I had read a study that said 3 out of 4 people make up 75% of the population.



That is really funny, but the response it got was hilarious.

And I read that 80% of statistics are made up on the spot.
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post #18 of 65 Old 01-21-2011, 08:42 AM
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Yep, 75% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
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post #19 of 65 Old 01-21-2011, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by TrickMcKaha View Post



That is really funny, but the response it got was hilarious.

And I read that 80% of statistics are made up on the spot.

60% of the time I am right every time
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post #20 of 65 Old 01-21-2011, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

So far I've shown 14 different people 3D in my HT and after watching I have asked every single person if they have experienced eyestrain or headache. Not one person has complained and everyone has stated how much they liked the 3D! I was originally afraid that I would suffer from eyestrain because I have had problems with passive 3D. I've had no problems with active shutter glasses at all. 3D is the most impressive improvement I've seen in my HT - much better than going from upconverted 480p to real 1080p source material!

I completely agree about the biggest improvement in HT. However, I occassionally get eye strain when I'm really tired.
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post #21 of 65 Old 01-21-2011, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrickMcKaha View Post



That is really funny, but the response it got was hilarious.

And I read that 80% of statistics are made up on the spot.

You guys are using "old" math. In 2d world 80% of statistics are made up on the spot...in 3d it is 120% so things are getting crazy


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post #22 of 65 Old 01-21-2011, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by icester View Post

Sorry,

but that is total crap.
Focus have no effect on eye strain and is strictly convergence driven. The only signal that brain sends to eyes is to control convergence and focus is simply coupled in parallel to the same signal. It is not possible to just control focus alone.
Also blurry pictures are not a source of any headaches.

Mathew Orman

Most people when they discuss focusing their eyes are talking about convergence, on that I agree. Blurry images are a source of headaches though, watching TV without my glasses on can cause major headaches, either due to the effort of trying to bring things into focus (in the true sense) or due to the mental processing of the unfocused image.
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post #23 of 65 Old 01-21-2011, 11:45 AM
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That 25% figure isn't very shocking, considering is includes :
-bad content that gives headaches to everybody
-variability due to the type of theatre presentation
-people with bad health conditions when they went to the cinema
-people with prescription glasses who don't use them when they go to the cinema
-people with eye condition who could get treatment but don't know about it
-people with eye incurable condition who really cannot see 3D

All that adds up, so 25% of people having experienced at least once discomfort or headaches during 3D presentation is credible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

I was originally afraid that I would suffer from eyestrain because I have had problems with passive 3D. I've had no problems with active shutter glasses at all.

That is weird, passive usually causes less eyestrain than active shutter systems.
Was it a RealD presentation ? (Many people confuse RealD with passive systems, it's actually an active shuttering system that uses passive glasses, but the system itself is active)

Passive 3D, forever !

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post #24 of 65 Old 01-21-2011, 03:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BlackShark View Post

That is weird, passive usually causes less eyestrain than active shutter systems.
Was it a RealD presentation ? (Many people confuse RealD with passive systems, it's actually an active shuttering system that uses passive glasses, but the system itself is active)

Active means using LCD shutter glasses while passive means using either polarized or color frequency (Dolby 3D) glasses.

Time/Frame Sequential (showing first the left frame, then the right frame) is the method for both active shutter glasses and single projector 3D with passive glasses. Time/Frame Parrallel is showing both frames at the same time and is used for passive glasses where there are twin projectors or for Xpol/FPR LCD displays.
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post #25 of 65 Old 01-21-2011, 04:55 PM
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You are correct, the use of the words "active/passive" traditionally only used to only describe the glasses. (active LCD shutter glasses, passive polarised glasses, etc...)
I extend the term and add "active/passive system" as synonyms for "time parallel" and "time sequential".

I make the same analogy as for the glasses, if the glasses have to do something special (they flicker) they are called active, if they don't they're called passive.
Similarly, if the display or projector flicker I call it active, if it doesn't I call it passive.

Passive 3D, forever !

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post #26 of 65 Old 01-22-2011, 04:38 AM
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I have had a problem with motion sickness my entire life. When PC games became 3D like, I could not play them due to headaches. So I was not optimistic that I could handle 3D with active shutter glasses. I demo'd it at Best Buy on a 50" plasma and the result was inconclusive. I purchased a JVC Rs40 (100" screen) about a month ago as an upgrade, but went ahead and purchased the emitter and glasses just to try it out and to demo to friends. I was pleasantly surprised that I have no problem - no headaches & no motion sickness. So I too doubt that the 25% figure is accurate.

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post #27 of 65 Old 01-22-2011, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by DennisBP View Post
I have had a problem with motion sickness my entire life. When PC games became 3D like, I could not play them due to headaches. So I was not optimistic that I could handle 3D with active shutter glasses. I demo'd it at Best Buy on a 50" plasma and the result was inconclusive. I purchased a JVC Rs40 (100" screen) about a month ago as an upgrade, but went ahead and purchased the emitter and glasses just to try it out and to demo to friends. I was pleasantly surprised that I have no problem - no headaches & no motion sickness. So I too doubt that the 25% figure is accurate.
I hope I'm in the same boat as you as my 3D glasses are on the way this week. I have become more sensitive to motion sickness (especially while playing some 1st person games) as I have gotten older. I'm really not sure what has caused this. I'm hopefully optimistic I won't have any problems.
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post #28 of 65 Old 01-22-2011, 07:04 AM
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"Not now dear, I've been watching 3D movies..."

Not one headache here, not one person who has watched 3D movies at my house has complained of getting a head ache.

E.B. White said, "I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day."
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post #29 of 65 Old 01-22-2011, 03:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisBP View Post

I have had a problem with motion sickness my entire life. When PC games became 3D like, I could not play them due to headaches. So I was not optimistic that I could handle 3D with active shutter glasses. I demo'd it at Best Buy on a 50" plasma and the result was inconclusive. I purchased a JVC Rs40 (100" screen) about a month ago as an upgrade, but went ahead and purchased the emitter and glasses just to try it out and to demo to friends. I was pleasantly surprised that I have no problem - no headaches & no motion sickness. So I too doubt that the 25% figure is accurate.

I agree with you. I have read numerous articles that state about 10 to 12% of the population has issues with 3D. That includes medical conditons, people with just one eye, etc. AFAIK, the biggest issue is eye muscle imbalance which can be corrected through threapy.
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post #30 of 65 Old 01-22-2011, 03:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poppabk View Post

Most people when they discuss focusing their eyes are talking about convergence, on that I agree. Blurry images are a source of headaches though, watching TV without my glasses on can cause major headaches, either due to the effort of trying to bring things into focus (in the true sense) or due to the mental processing of the unfocused image.

That is irrelevant becasue we are not talking about vision defects but normal human vision DOF of a screen object in regular or home theater.

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