Official Monster Vision Max 3D Thread - Page 14 - AVS Forum
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post #391 of 1070 Old 01-18-2012, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post


Used a laptop. The joystick is to touchy and impossible to fine tune.

How were you able to do that while dongle is plugged in? Or did you unplug and then hook it up to pc, change setting, then go back to tv replug check 3d? It will drive me insane. I used joystick while pause on a crosstalk scene but joystick cable was too short.
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post #392 of 1070 Old 01-18-2012, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by JewDaddy View Post


Well, I'll give it a shot. Thanks for the help. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Let us know how it turns out. I didn't use pc to adjust the delay, probably would've been easier to do it on pc.
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post #393 of 1070 Old 01-18-2012, 09:19 PM
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Some things to consider:

1. I set up my Sony 46HX820 with the headphone output as "line" instead "headphone". Maybe it's using less power? Never got that power message.
2. Did you update your firmware? I thought it was a little better after I did that.
3. How far are you sitting to the screen? I had my tv originally set up at 5 feet and later got a stand that is 8 feet away. It seems better when I am further away.
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post #394 of 1070 Old 01-19-2012, 01:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dojoman View Post

How were you able to do that while dongle is plugged in? Or did you unplug and then hook it up to pc, change setting, then go back to tv replug check 3d? It will drive me insane. I used joystick while pause on a crosstalk scene but joystick cable was too short.

Run the proper USB cable ("A" to mini "B", IIRC) from the laptop to the emitter. When you use the PC utility, the emitter should be showing green LEDs with 3D content playing. There is a few second delay between making a change and seeing the result, but as Ronomy says, it's much easier to use the PC utility than to fiddle with the emitter's joystick.

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post #395 of 1070 Old 01-19-2012, 09:26 AM
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I'll wait for JewDaddy to confirm if his crosstalk improves. I never bother to update FW since I might have blew the dongle when I attempted to update.
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post #396 of 1070 Old 01-19-2012, 11:59 AM
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Is there any agreed upon way or set of patterns to tune these?

Duty seems easy enough...white vertical lines on a black background and varying depths should help you to tune between brightness/ghosting. Each line should have two distinct ghosts on each side.

Delay seems trickier though. I suppose if it's off, one side of the vertical line's ghost is probably going to be brighter than the other.

That make sense to anyone? Seems a little crazy to just eyeball it - there has to be a way using a pattern to dial it in to perfection. Duty can come down to personal taste, but there is literally only one correct setting for delay.

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post #397 of 1070 Old 01-19-2012, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Is there any agreed upon way or set of patterns to tune these?

Duty seems easy enough...white vertical lines on a black background and varying depths should help you to tune between brightness/ghosting. Each line should have two distinct ghosts on each side.

Delay seems trickier though. I suppose if it's off, one side of the vertical line's ghost is probably going to be brighter than the other.

That make sense to anyone? Seems a little crazy to just eyeball it - there has to be a way using a pattern to dial it in to perfection. Duty can come down to personal taste, but there is literally only one correct setting for delay.

Duty cycle isnt just personal taste. We would all want 100% for the brightest image which is possible on a DLP display. If the LCD or LCOS panels can't refresh quick enough on the TV a lower duty cycle allows you to block out the portion that is still visible or until the previous image brightness is low enough you don't see it very easily. So there is a trade off for brighter image with more ghosting or darker image with little to no ghosting.
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post #398 of 1070 Old 01-19-2012, 01:30 PM
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Ok. So i've messed around a little bit with the duty cycle and delay and its a little more complicated than I thought it would be. I chose a winter x games scene from direct tv to test this with. I paused it on a part that had alot of crosstalk. I started by adjusting the duty cycle to 60 and then adjusting the delay. I had a little success in reducing some crosstalk but not enough yet to justify buying these glasses over my Sony's. Im gonna try again and see if I can dial the crosstalk down even more. Someone had mentioned to close one of my eyes while doing it. Not sure how that would differ from just looking at the screen with both my eyes open. Oh well, I'll see if i have any better success and let you guys know.

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post #399 of 1070 Old 01-19-2012, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post


Duty cycle isnt just personal taste. We would all want 100% for the brightest image which is possible on a DLP display. If the LCD or LCOS panels can't refresh quick enough on the TV a lower duty cycle allows you to block out the portion that is still visible or until the previous image brightness is low enough you don't see it very easily. So there is a trade off for brighter image with more ghosting or darker image with little to no ghosting.

Well yeah, if there's a point where you could say ghosting is all gone even in the worst case scenario, then you'd never want to go below that. Dunno how you'd get to that point for sure without a pattern though.

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post #400 of 1070 Old 01-19-2012, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JewDaddy View Post

Ok. So i've messed around a little bit with the duty cycle and delay and its a little more complicated than I thought it would be. I chose a winter x games scene from direct tv to test this with. I paused it on a part that had alot of crosstalk. I started by adjusting the duty cycle to 60 and then adjusting the delay. I had a little success in reducing some crosstalk but not enough yet to justify buying these glasses over my Sony's. Im gonna try again and see if I can dial the crosstalk down even more. Someone had mentioned to close one of my eyes while doing it. Not sure how that would differ from just looking at the screen with both my eyes open. Oh well, I'll see if i have any better success and let you guys know.

Not sure I would use Directv to do this with. Better to use a Bluray. Broadcast might have ghosting in the source.

You can use both eyes but I can fine tune better closing one eye and look for the double image in one eye. Sometime I find looking at a 3D image paused my eyes will cross more than they need and I see double myself. LOL
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post #401 of 1070 Old 01-19-2012, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JewDaddy View Post

Ok. So i've messed around a little bit with the duty cycle and delay and its a little more complicated than I thought it would be. I chose a winter x games scene from direct tv to test this with. I paused it on a part that had alot of crosstalk. I started by adjusting the duty cycle to 60 and then adjusting the delay. I had a little success in reducing some crosstalk but not enough yet to justify buying these glasses over my Sony's. Im gonna try again and see if I can dial the crosstalk down even more. Someone had mentioned to close one of my eyes while doing it. Not sure how that would differ from just looking at the screen with both my eyes open. Oh well, I'll see if i have any better success and let you guys know.

yeah i was gonna say you should do this on a good source like a Bluray 3D disc. I always have a reference scene in Avatar 3D BD to do this kind of tweak. Downloaded and streaming contents have lots of crosstalk.
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post #402 of 1070 Old 01-19-2012, 03:28 PM
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If anyone is looking for the Monster glasses and emitter Amazon has them at the lowest price I have even seen today.
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post #403 of 1070 Old 01-19-2012, 11:22 PM
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Alright. So after almost an hour of adjusting, which I actually had a friend come over and help. He sat back with the glasses on while I changed the different settings on my laptop. No matter what I tried, I could not improve the ghosting and crosstalk. Which sucks because these are so much more comfortable than my Sony's. So im gonna send them back to amazon for my money back. Its not only because it didnt improve the 3d picture but i also didnt like the hassle of the emitter. Oh well, I tried......

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post #404 of 1070 Old 01-20-2012, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JewDaddy View Post

Alright. So after almost an hour of adjusting, which I actually had a friend come over and help. He sat back with the glasses on while I changed the different settings on my laptop. No matter what I tried, I could not improve the ghosting and crosstalk. Which sucks because these are so much more comfortable than my Sony's. So im gonna send them back to amazon for my money back. Its not only because it didnt improve the 3d picture but i also didnt like the hassle of the emitter. Oh well, I tried......

Its possible that the Sony sync output for the emitter triggers differently from how most emitters work. Sounds like you are stuck with the Sony glasses.
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post #405 of 1070 Old 01-20-2012, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post


Its possible that the Sony sync output for the emitter triggers differently from how most emitters work. Sounds like you are stuck with the Sony glasses.

I guess thats a possibility. I was really hoping they would work better than my Sony's because they're so much more comfortable. Oh well..........

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post #406 of 1070 Old 01-20-2012, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by JewDaddy View Post

I guess thats a possibility. I was really hoping they would work better than my Sony's because they're so much more comfortable. Oh well..........

Did you have all other processing turned off on the Sony? Motion flow can screw up frame rates.
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post #407 of 1070 Old 01-20-2012, 09:12 AM
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Where are you located? I'd trade you two pairs of Sony glasses for your set
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post #408 of 1070 Old 01-20-2012, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JewDaddy View Post

Alright. So after almost an hour of adjusting, which I actually had a friend come over and help. He sat back with the glasses on while I changed the different settings on my laptop. No matter what I tried, I could not improve the ghosting and crosstalk. Which sucks because these are so much more comfortable than my Sony's. So im gonna send them back to amazon for my money back. Its not only because it didnt improve the 3d picture but i also didnt like the hassle of the emitter. Oh well, I tried......

I felt the same way about these glasses. it was a hassle and a mess to leave the dongle hanging with tape next to my Sony external emitter. If the crosstalk improves I was thinking it was worth the hassle but that was not the case. I don't think there's a quick fix for our crosstalk problem. I'm surprise HX820 has the same issue with NX810. Get a different TV or call Sony and complain. Some people have success with getting their 3D circuit board replaced but I haven't heard if the crosstalk is the same.
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post #409 of 1070 Old 01-20-2012, 09:57 AM
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Did you have all other processing turned off on the Sony? Motion flow can screw up frame rates.

Nope. In 3D mode most of the settings are greyed out. Can't change them.
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post #410 of 1070 Old 01-20-2012, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dojoman View Post

Nope. In 3D mode most of the settings are greyed out. Can't change them.


If you drop duty cycle down below 50% and still have ghosting its something with the TV. Under 50% should be enough to eliminate ghosting unless some internal TV processing is interpolating frames.
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post #411 of 1070 Old 01-20-2012, 01:54 PM
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Can someone please verify the LED response I should see on the emitter when I successfully do a factory reset? As per the manual, I press and hold the joystick to the left for at least 10 seconds and then release when the unit next cycles to 5 simultaneous green LEDs. The only visual response I then see is, about a second later, a resumption of the back-and-forth sweeping pattern of the red LED.

Is this what the manual means by "The factory Reset is complete when all LEDs flash really fast."?
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post #412 of 1070 Old 01-20-2012, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamel View Post

Can someone please verify the LED response I should see on the emitter when I successfully do a factory reset? As per the manual, I press and hold the joystick to the left for at least 10 seconds and then release when the unit next cycles to 5 simultaneous green LEDs. The only visual response I then see is, about a second later, a resumption of the back-and-forth sweeping pattern of the red LED.

Is this what the manual means by "The factory Reset is complete when all LEDs flash really fast."?

Yes it is exactly what they mean and from what you describe you are following the correct procedure. I had the exact same question myself when I first got it. The manual is unclear because I was expecting the lights to "flash". But by flash they mean go back to scrolling.

You can double check you did things correctly by making the settings really bad on purpose, then doing a factor reset and confirming that things look back to normal following the reset.
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post #413 of 1070 Old 01-20-2012, 04:42 PM
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Initial impressions are disappointing. Doesn't do a significantly better job controlling crosstalk than the stock samsung glasses. At least not $99 worth of difference.

I think Im just going to give up on active tech. Sucks with any flat panel.

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post #414 of 1070 Old 01-20-2012, 05:56 PM
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I've tried a ton of different displays and came to the same conclusion. I prefer DLP for 3D. I had a Mits 1080p DLP slim rear projection display (60") and it was amazing w/ PC on Nvidia 3D Vision 1080p checkerboard. 100% depth setting and still no ghosting. It wasn't great for console games in 3D since these are all 720p, and scaled to 1080p on this set looked pretty ragged. I switched to a Sony LED, bad. Then a Samsung LED flat panel (got this since it also supported checkerboard 1080p from a PC with the "rollermod"), and while 2D on the consoles @ 1080p looked amazing, 3D was a ghost-fest. I now have an LG passive, and it's loads better. Still not as good on PC as the Mits. I also have in another area an Acer 720p DLP projector and the 3D on that is ghost-free and amazing, either w/ DLP-Link, or these glasses (even better than DLP-Link.)
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post #415 of 1070 Old 01-20-2012, 07:03 PM
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I've tried a ton of different displays and came to the same conclusion. I prefer DLP for 3D. I had a Mits 1080p DLP slim rear projection display (60") and it was amazing w/ PC on Nvidia 3D Vision 1080p checkerboard. 100% depth setting and still no ghosting. It wasn't great for console games in 3D since these are all 720p, and scaled to 1080p on this set looked pretty ragged. I switched to a Sony LED, bad. Then a Samsung LED flat panel (got this since it also supported checkerboard 1080p from a PC with the "rollermod"), and while 2D on the consoles @ 1080p looked amazing, 3D was a ghost-fest. I now have an LG passive, and it's loads better. Still not as good on PC as the Mits. I also have in another area an Acer 720p DLP projector and the 3D on that is ghost-free and amazing, either w/ DLP-Link, or these glasses (even better than DLP-Link.)

Well, the plasma is better than LCD by far - the crosstalk is only evident in really dark scenes. But I could say the same about the stock glasses. I guess the phosphor glow takes too long to completely go away. Seems to still be there even if I drop the duty down to almost nothing. It's probably better on a third generation set, but on my first gen it really spoils the fun.

I'm gonna fiddle with it for a little while longer to see what else I can do. Theyre def night and day more comfy than the stock samsungs, but performance-wise, they don't seem that much better.

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post #416 of 1070 Old 01-20-2012, 09:20 PM
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Did a little more tweaking, and got them to the point where they definitely make some difference over stock. I had to reduce the duty down to 65, and then fiddle with the delay to avoid any color shifting. Lowering duty below 65 produced unavoidable color shifts. The brightness is basically equivalent between the two sets at duty 65.

When I quickly swap back and forth between stock and these, there's a definite reduction in the intensity of the ghosting in dark, high contrast areas. The really obvious ghosting is still really obvious, but the minor cases are reduced noticeably. It's still not as big a difference as I'd hoped.

If you're willing to take an hour or so to fiddle, they're definitely better. For me, I'm not quite sure if they're $100 better.

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post #417 of 1070 Old 01-21-2012, 11:33 AM
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These were a must for me since I use an ir blaster for components in another room and the ir emitter and glasses would have made the ir baster useless. Plus I love that you can turn your head away from the screen and not lose sync. Very happy with these glasses!
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post #418 of 1070 Old 01-22-2012, 05:27 PM
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One thing that is a MAJOR drag and poor R&D about these glasses is the rubber attatchment that goes over your nose. It falls off easily and lost mine and with out it, it's painful to wear after 15 min.

My suggestion is to glue it on with crazy glue.

Now I have to go order that little piece.
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post #419 of 1070 Old 01-22-2012, 09:11 PM
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Can anyone recommend a good USB hub that plugs in to an outlet that has enough power to charge these Monster 3D glasses. I bought this one from amazon and after 24 hours, the glasses were still not charged. I can't tell by reading the descriptions of the hubs whether they will charge the glasses or not. If someone has personal knowledge of one that works, please let me know. Thanks.
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post #420 of 1070 Old 01-23-2012, 05:33 AM
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Can anyone recommend a good USB hub that plugs in to an outlet that has enough power to charge these Monster 3D glasses. I bought this one from amazon and after 24 hours, the glasses were still not charged. I can't tell by reading the descriptions of the hubs whether they will charge the glasses or not. If someone has personal knowledge of one that works, please let me know. Thanks.

Newegg and Amazon have a few good ones. You need one with higher output.

This is the one I used. I have several and I use it with my Blackberry and with the Monster glasses. Buy a few they are very inexpensive. I have also found that the ones with dual output do not have enough power to charge glasses.

http://www.amazon.com/Universal-Char...321653&sr=8-12

The charger from Belkin is good but you can only charge one item at a time since the power drops when you charge two at a time.

http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Mini-Su...7322121&sr=8-3
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