HDMI 1.4 Switch - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 23 Old 04-26-2011, 07:06 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm looking for an HDMI switch that is rated 1.4 or put another way can pass 3D from a Blu-ray source. I have this switch and it is advertised as 3D capable, but it doesn't pass 3D (at least from Blu-ray).

The issue as I understand it is you need a receiver with HDMI 1.4 inputs to separate the 3D video and HD audio. The switch above will pass 3D from a cable box which is why I believe they are advertising it as 3D capable. I have an HDMI 1.3 receiver than I'm not looking to replace. My 3D blu-ray player has two outputs so I would be fine utilizing a HDMI switch that has one input from the blu-ray player and one input from my receiver. When I want to watch a 3D blu-ray I can still get HD audio from my receiver via the second HDMI output.

Are there any switches that will do this? All of the Atlona switches advertise 3D capable yet also say HDMI 1.3(b) so I'm sure they will suffer from the same thing my current switch does. Actually most of the switches (excluding Crestron DM) seem to advertise the same bandwidth (6.75gbps). Is there something else special about the receiver that can handle this issue meaning that a switch couldn't do what I"m requesting?

Thanks.
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post #2 of 23 Old 04-26-2011, 10:26 PM
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http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1326194
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post #3 of 23 Old 04-26-2011, 11:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by thebard View Post
Thanks for the link but that seems to be a splitter not a switch.
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post #4 of 23 Old 04-26-2011, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ktrdsl23 View Post
Thanks for the link but that seems to be a splitter not a switch.
Read the whole thread. The OP originally asked about a splitter, but turns out he needed a switch.

There are many suggestions for products from monoprice, sewell direct, etc. No need repeating the discussion if the info is already there!
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post #5 of 23 Old 04-26-2011, 11:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by thebard View Post
Read the whole thread. The OP originally asked about a splitter, but turns out he needed a switch.

There are many suggestions for products from monoprice, sewell direct, etc. No need repeating the discussion if the info is already there!
I understand they talk about a switch early in the thread but they don't discuss the issue of passing 3D from Blu-ray through the switch. That is a special feature of HDMI 1.4 and the switch in the thread from monoprice is 1.3b which is the same as what I have from Atlona. The discussion about 3D and blu-ray at the end of the thread deals with a splitter
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post #6 of 23 Old 04-27-2011, 12:36 AM
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The difference between the 1.3 specification primarily involves ethernet capability over hdmi and the audio return channel (ARC) feature. Many 1.3 switches are 3d capable, but don't claim the 1.4 rating because of lack of support for those features.

Two people on that linked thread are using monoprice switches successfully with 3d (I'm one of them). See this post in particular:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post20312586

If you're not sure, shoot an email to monoprice & tell them what your needs are. They are very good about responding and can also verify their return policy, in case it doesn't work as promised.
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post #7 of 23 Old 04-27-2011, 06:54 AM
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Also may need an EDID spoofer. The problem I had was that the BR payer wouldn't recognize the monoprice 4x4 matrix switch as a 3D capable display. Once I added in a Geffen HDMI detective, it worked perfectly. It had NOTHING to do with 1.3 vs 1.4.

I wish all players had an option to push the 3D regardless of what it THINKS the display is capable of. It's the dumbing down of America, I tell ya.

I've been in software design for 25 years and we used to have a saying...

Design a system that even an idiot can use and only an idiot will use it.

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post #8 of 23 Old 04-27-2011, 09:18 AM
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Here ya go... a search for "3d" on monoprice's site brought up 3 hdmi switches with 3d support:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/se...rd=3d&x=25&y=9

Also, as tlogan said, see if your blu ray player has an option to force 3d.
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post #9 of 23 Old 04-27-2011, 10:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


I struggled with this topic a bit, trying to figure out an optimal solution to my particular situation. However, in your situation, since DTV uses HDMI 1.3 to pack the 3D signal, I believe you can just run the signal to your AVR and out to the TV as you would normally for 2D. Switches and splitters get involved when 3D BD is used via HDMI 1.4.

To expound further should you want to get an HDMI 1.4 source, and just to air my current understanding, and if anyone wants to correct any mis-statements, please do.

Switches and splitters do not examine the HDMI data, they just make sure it all gets handshook via EDIDs. So any switch/splitter that can handle HDMI 1.3 can handle HDMI 1.4 (overall bandwidth is the same), since the switches/splitters don't process the video/audio data.

However:
As alk3997 says, if you use switches and splitters that keep everyone talking together, you get the lowest-common-denominator compatibility, which means that if anything is HDMI1.3 (or less), then your HDMI 1.4 3D components will dumb themselves down to non-3D mode.


Similarly, if you use a splitter to send data from a source to your AVR and the TV, the TV's capabilities (e.g. audio) will dumb-down the HDMI signal so that the AVR gets the same info. I guess this is what happened for you? 2 channel audio only when you used the splitter?

So the trick is to make sure that if you are trying to use HDMI 1.4 3D (i.e. from a BD player), you need to make sure everything from source to display are HDMI 1.4. If you use a discrete switch to select sources then the display will only see the one source. If you use a discrete switch/splitter like the one from Sewell, then the signal only goes to the one display device, and the source is happy to send HDMI 1.4 signals. Any AVR in between must be 1.4-compatible, of course.

If you use the matrix switch from Monoprice it will work, as long as the 3D source going to the 3D display is not also selected for the other output going to a non-HDMI1.4 device (because the matrix switch will share all EDID data amongst the devices sharing the same signals, lowest common denominator, etc).

I have ordered discrete (unpowered) switches from Monoprice, and will do the diode-reversing modification to one of them to make it a manual discrete splitter, since that should solve my situation (I only need to have one source and one display device active at any one time, and I need to bypass my HDMI1.3 AVR for 3D BD but would like to use it for all other times).

I did consider the Sewell product, but went for the Monoprice for price and known performance history (others have done what I need to do).

Sorry for the long-winded explanation, just trying to clear my thoughts on the matter too.

shinksma

Here is a post that I think does a better job of explaining what I am referring to. See the part I bolded. It is from this thread

I think this may be what the problem I'm experiencing. @thebard, I appreciate your help and finding of these switches on monoprice and their claims of 3D support. My point is that the switch I have also claims 3D support. I have spoken with people in tech support at a few companies and none of them really give me a clear answer. They say it "should" work since it is advertised as supporting 3D. I am fairly confident if I got the monoprice switch it would act the same way as my current switch from Atlona does.

I will check and see if I can "force" 3D from my BDP. It's an Oppo 93 so perhaps that is the issue but I suspect it has more to do with the quote in the post about the switch forcing the lowest common denominator which in my world would be my non-1.4 receiver. Theoretically my receiver can claim 3D support. It does pass 3D from my cable box to the TV. What it can't do is pass 3D blu-ray since you need a 1.4 receiver to extract the HD audio from the 3D video in blu-ray.

I'll try reading about the Gefen HDMI detector. Just to be clear you put it in between the blu-ray player and the switch? Did your bdp utilize dual HDMI outputs?

--Edit--

I checked about my blu-ray player and it does seem that Oppo did a firmware update to allow the player to Force 3D. Maybe that will solve the problem. I'll report back after I check it this weekend.
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post #10 of 23 Old 04-28-2011, 09:03 AM
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I'll try reading about the Gefen HDMI detector. Just to be clear you put it in between the blu-ray player and the switch? Did your bdp utilize dual HDMI outputs?
Just for the record,

Yes, the Geffen goes between the BDP and the switch. In order to program the Geffen properly, I had to connect it directly to the display (Mits 65737) first and actually PLAY a 3D BR, and then move it to before the switch. I'm using a SONY 570 so only one HDMI out. I use Optical for audio to my Denon 3806.

Forcing 3D SHOULD solve the issue and you *shouldn't* need the Geffen.

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post #11 of 23 Old 04-28-2011, 11:18 AM
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I believe you will find that using the Oppo HDMI 1.4 output into a basic 4x1 monoprice HDMI switch (LINK) then the output of the switch to your 3DTV will work. A friend of mine is using this setup with his Oppo 93 and a JVC 3D projector and it works. However, I don't know if the monoprice matrix switches will work or not.

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post #12 of 23 Old 04-28-2011, 04:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

I believe you will find that using the Oppo HDMI 1.4 output into a basic 4x1 monoprice HDMI switch (LINK) then the output of the switch to your 3DTV will work. A friend of mine is using this setup with his Oppo 93 and a JVC 3D projector and it works. However, I don't know if the monoprice matrix switches will work or not.

Do you know if your friend has the other Oppo HDMI output to a 1.3 receiver? I also have the output of the switch to an HDMI over Cat6 balun but I doubt that would change anything. This is the balun I'm using and it's rated 1.4. It works fine if the BDP output goes straight into the balun without the switch (and the other output into the receiver).
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post #13 of 23 Old 04-29-2011, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktrdsl23 View Post

Do you know if your friend has the other Oppo HDMI output to a 1.3 receiver? I also have the output of the switch to an HDMI over Cat6 balun but I doubt that would change anything. This is the balun I'm using and it's rated 1.4. It works fine if the BDP output goes straight into the balun without the switch (and the other output into the receiver).

He has the other Oppo HDMI output connected to a HDMI 1.3 equipped preamp/processor.

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post #14 of 23 Old 05-01-2011, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

I believe you will find that using the Oppo HDMI 1.4 output into a basic 4x1 monoprice HDMI switch (LINK) then the output of the switch to your 3DTV will work. A friend of mine is using this setup with his Oppo 93 and a JVC 3D projector and it works. However, I don't know if the monoprice matrix switches will work or not.





I just had a live chat with a support person, he told me this would work providing the receiver has HDMI
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post #15 of 23 Old 05-04-2011, 01:21 PM
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I am looking to connect my receivers HDMI to a switch and my PS3 to a switch. I will use optical from PS3 to receiver for audio, which I can live with for time being. I have to go around the receiver for 3D. Would the monoprice 4 x 1 3D capable switch work for this. My display is an RS40 3D Projector with an HDMI 1.4 input.
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post #16 of 23 Old 08-22-2013, 11:29 AM
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Hi Guys,

You can use a simple and inexpensive 4x1 HDMI v1.4 Switch With Ethernet, 3D Support and a Optical Output to upgrade your Old AV Receiver to work hand in hand with modern day Electronic AV Equipment.

The HDMI Switch enables you to connect multiple (4) HDMI sources with a single HDMI TV. The 7.1 channel audio signal can be sent to the AV receiver through the SPDIF/COAX output using a Optical/ COAX cable.

The Audio Return Channel: Allows you to connect an HDMI TV to an audio receiver via HDMI. This allows you to send audio from your TV to the receiver "upstream" without giving up the "downstream" video from a video source connected to your receiver (like from a Blu-Ray player or gaming console)

Check out the following link to find more details.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005XB17GM/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Thanks smile.gif

Milinda
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post #17 of 23 Old 08-26-2013, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Bigmilicool View Post

Hi Guys,

You can use a simple and inexpensive 4x1 HDMI v1.4 Switch With Ethernet, 3D Support and a Optical Output to upgrade your Old AV Receiver to work hand in hand with modern day Electronic AV Equipment.

The HDMI Switch enables you to connect multiple (4) HDMI sources with a single HDMI TV. The 7.1 channel audio signal can be sent to the AV receiver through the SPDIF/COAX output using a Optical/ COAX cable.

The Audio Return Channel: Allows you to connect an HDMI TV to an audio receiver via HDMI. This allows you to send audio from your TV to the receiver "upstream" without giving up the "downstream" video from a video source connected to your receiver (like from a Blu-Ray player or gaming console)

Check out the following link to find more details.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005XB17GM/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Thanks smile.gif

Milinda

With respect to HDMI signals and versions... apart from the quote above, the rest is just confusing.

The only difference between HDMI 1.3 and 1.4 is the ARC or Audio Return Channel. Notice that it is AUDIO, not video. This extra facility in the 1.4 standard (and the output/cable) allows the viewing device (TV) to send the audio from it back to your AV receiver and send that sound to your sound system.

When you hook up your TV to your receiver via HDMI 1.4, (and remember that the TV, receiver and interconnecting cable must ALL be HDMI 1.4), and your are watching the TV, via a broadcast or a player connected directly to the TV, (you wouldn't do that normally, the player would be connected to your receiver), AND you enable the ARC option on your receiver for that connector, then the soundtrack from the show on display will now be sent to the receiver and out to your surround sound speakers, giving you full-bodied surround sound instead of the crappy stuff you normally get from a TV.

So the bottom line is.... a standard HDMI 1.3 output/cable/input WILL transport a 3D signal to your display device (TV or projector). You DO NOT need HDMI 1.4.
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post #18 of 23 Old 09-01-2013, 12:37 PM
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Hi Murbella7,

To answer your question

"The only difference between HDMI 1.3 and 1.4 is the ARC or Audio Return Channel. Notice that it is AUDIO, not video. This extra facility in the 1.4 standard (and the output/cable) allows the viewing device (TV) to send the audio from it back to your AV receiver and send that sound to your sound system.

When you hook up your TV to your receiver via HDMI 1.4, (and remember that the TV, receiver and interconnecting cable must ALL be HDMI 1.4), and your are watching the TV, via a broadcast or a player connected directly to the TV, (you wouldn't do that normally, the player would be connected to your receiver), AND you enable the ARC option on your receiver for that connector, then the soundtrack from the show on display will now be sent to the receiver and out to your surround sound speakers, giving you full-bodied surround sound instead of the crappy stuff you normally get from a TV.

So the bottom line is.... a standard HDMI 1.3 output/cable/input WILL transport a 3D signal to your display device (TV or projector). You DO NOT need HDMI 1.4."

Yes, you are absolutely right my friend, I 100% agree with you. I was concentrating on how to overall upgrade an Old AV Receiver rather than just talking about the HDMI versions.

Other than ARC, HDMI 1.4 also carry Ethernet signals. You can use either 1.3 or 1.4 Versions of the HDMI Cables depending on what type of signal you want to pass through each cable in to what devices.

Of course, nowadays there is no issue with the new AV receivers because all of them comes with built in HDMI switching, 3D support and Ethernet, etc.

What I'm trying to say is that If you have an Old AV Receiver like mine (Yamaha DSP- A1) that does not have built in HDMI inputs, You can use this external HDMI switch to make it work like a modern day AV Receiver.

Just connect your HD cable box and the BD player with Wi-fi & 3D support to the inputs of the External 4x1 HDMI Switch using 2 HDMI cables.
Connect your HD Television to the output of the External 4x1 HDMI Switch using a HDMI Cable.
Connect your AV Receiver to the External 4x1 HDMI Switch using an Optical cable.

Then you have a perfect HD AV System. I'm not telling that It is Super good, but it is value for your money and it get the job done.

This a cheap and easy way to upgrade the old but hardy and reliable AV receivers without spending $$$ on a new Flaky Chinese made AV Receiver.

I hope this helps to clear your mind biggrin.gif
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post #19 of 23 Old 09-01-2013, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigmilicool View Post

...the...interconnecting cable must...be HDMI 1.4...
BS. Any HDMI cable will work with 3D just fine if it can handle the bit rate. If it can handle 1080p60 2D, then it can handle 1080p24 3D.
Quote:
You can use either 1.3 or 1.4 Versions of the HDMI Cables depending on what type of signal you want to pass through each cable in to what devices.
There is no such thing as a HDMI 1.4 cable. Any manufacturer labeling a cable HDMI 1.4 is violating the HDMI trademark owner's labeling requirements. There are standard cables and high speed cables, with or without Ethernet (there is also an automotive cable which is irrelevant here). There have only been two significant changes in HDMI cables since day one: high speed which required a change in the twist of the differential pairs, and Ethernet which required repurposing and reconfiguring three of the wires in the cable. The usual solution today is to just go straight to a high speed HDMI cable for anything up to 25'. Ethernet is irrelevant because there isn't a significant base of gear that requires it. But even a HDMI 1.0 cable will work fine for 3D if it can handle the bandwidth.

FWIW the current labeling requirements don't even allow the version number on electronics. The manufacturers and retailers are supposed to be referring to supported feautres. Even if the literature or packaging does say HDMI 1.4 it does not necessarily mean the device supports 3D. 3D is an optional feature under HDMI 1.4 Look for 3D.

A "pre-HDMI 1.4" switch or repeater is electrically capable of handling a 3D signal. If there is a problem, it is with what the switch does to the E-EDID from the sink before passing it on to the source.
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post #20 of 23 Old 09-01-2013, 03:56 PM
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Bigmilicool - it's all cool. I was not having shots at anything, just stating a few facts that often get hidden, forgotten or are simply not known.

With regard to HDMI cables, it is easier to market a label such as HDMI 1.4, that implies something different over HDMI 1.3, than it is "HDMI 1.3 High Speed" and still sell the same message that it is both 3D capable and has the additional Audio Return Channel.

In fact, I think ARC is a feature which most people don't appreciate, understand or will ever need. If broadcast sound ever reaches the quality of that on disc then the more discerning listener might consider using it, but honestly, piping broadcast audio through your surround sound system is a waste of good equipment and cabling. The only thing that this quality of audio deserves is a cheap sound bar - IMO. If you are sending audio from your disc player(s) or TIVO/AVR direct to your TV and not through your receiver, then why have you got a receiver? Then again, your are probably using a Bose sound setup anyway (oops).
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post #21 of 23 Old 09-01-2013, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murbella7 View Post

...it is easier to market a label such as HDMI 1.4, that implies something different over HDMI 1.3, than it is "HDMI 1.3 High Speed" and still sell the same message that it is both 3D capable and has the additional Audio Return Channel.
There is absolutely no difference between a high speed cable under HDMI 1.3 and HDMI 1.4. Both are 3D and ARC capable. What you refer to is nothing more than a marketing ploy to separate you from your hard earned money.

ARC is simply a way of reducing the number of cables between the TV an the AVR. It lets you eliminate the Toslink or Coax S/PIDF cable used to get digital audio from the TV to the AVR. Saying that piping broadcast audio through a surround system is a waste of good equipment and cabling is a bit short sighted, I would say. The Dolby Digital AC-3 signal delivered via ATSC certainly sounds a lot better played through a decent surround system than through two tiny speakers on a TV.
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post #22 of 23 Old 09-02-2013, 09:38 AM
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Hi Colm & Murbella7,

I think you guys have misunderstood me. I never intended to focus on the capabilities of the HDMI 1.4 cables. What you guys are saying might be true, regarding the marketing gimmicks, but whatever it is, these cables are there out for sale in the market and they are selling like hot cakes. if I'm right HDMI V1.4 comes with a HEC, ARC, 3D, 4K support, Etc... People with Bigger 3D and Wifi enabled LED screens and Projector Screens will start to use them sooner than you think. I went to the www.hdmi.org and what you are saying is true, They have banned the use of HDMI version numbers. But the fact remain the same even though its not legal to print the version number on the cable, different cables have different capabilities whether its numbered or not.

No use of HDMI Version Numbers:
http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/trademark_logo_pub.aspx

Finding the Right Cable:
http://www.hdmi.org/consumer/finding_right_cable.aspx

Introducing HDMI Specification Version 1.4a:
http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_1_4/index.aspx

Anyway, Since the topic of this thread was "HDMI 1.4 Switch" I only intended to give my 2 cents on a 4x1 HDMI Switch with a Toslink Output that I found on Amazon.com for a reasonable price that actually does a good job.

Like I stated on my earlier comment, I never intended to discuss anything about HDMI Cables or its various versions or their capabilities.

My Yamaha DSP-A1 is 15 years old and it doesn't have any HDMI inputs, hence I needed to find a way to connect my new Blu Ray Player to get 5.1 Surround Sound from my Receiver. The Sony Blu Ray player didn't come with any digital audio output and it only had a single HDMI output to send both audio and video signals. So this was the solution I found to connect it with my receiver.

The Switcher came with 3D support, 4K upscaling, HEC and ARC capabilities and it had 4 HDMI inputs, 1 HDMI Output, 1 Toslink Output and 1 Ethernet Input.

As far as I know, not many of the more expensive Switch makers have been able to bring out this type of products into the market. If someone does, they cost almost same as buying a new low end receiver. This might be due to the fact that almost all modern receivers comes with HDMI Switching, HDMI Pass Through Technology, 3D support, 4K upscaling, HEC and ARC Built-in to the receiver.

But guys like me who still enjoy using old receivers like Yamaha DSP- A1 can use these types of external 4x1 HDMI switches to connect new HD devices to our existing receivers using Toslink optical cables and enjoy excellent 5.1 Surround Sound.
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post #23 of 23 Old 09-19-2013, 03:23 AM
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Hi,
Maybe this one from cyp can work CYP EL-41X 4-1.

I am planning to buy one and would be nice to hear if anyone have tested it?

Br
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