A call to all JVC users wishing to use the VIP 3D Theatre device - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 189 Old 06-02-2011, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

OK! Decided to just do it and build the emitter driver for my RS1u. Ordered some of the parts tonight. Will use a JK flip flop with dual polarity outputs. Install a switch to change polarity. I'll tap off Vsync which is already passed through a gate. Probably just solder on to that output (actually a test point) and signal ground with a small coax to bring it out of the projector. The RF emitter will plug into my little circuit via a bulk head mounted female 3 pin mini din. I need to hit the local electronics store and get a small project box and project circuit card so I can build it. I have some extra 5 volt power supplies kicking around in work I can grab. Hopefully be up and running soon enough.

Ron

How did you get schematics for your PJ? So far I don't need to crack open any of my units but I think I would have a hard time to get the schematics if I needed any. Good luck with your project.
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post #92 of 189 Old 06-02-2011, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by mkoss View Post

How did you get schematics for your PJ? So far I don't need to crack open any of my units but I think I would have a hard time to get the schematics if I needed any. Good luck with your project.

I purchased the shop manual for my RS1u back when I first purchased the projector. It is the Vsync after the processor board that feeds the three color panels so this should work. Plus I'll have an easy way to change polarity. Debating how I will handle that part. Toggle switch or push button for now but if it happens enough I may have to come up with a way to change it remotely.
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post #93 of 189 Old 06-08-2011, 07:59 AM
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Ronomy, how is the mod coming?
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post #94 of 189 Old 06-08-2011, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by chriscic View Post

Ronomy, how is the mod coming?

Some parts have arrived but I need to hit the local electronics shop to find a small project box. I need some small toggle switches too. Just haven't had any time to work on it.
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post #95 of 189 Old 06-09-2011, 01:46 PM
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I'm happy to report that my JVC HD250 might be ok with frame locking. I watched 1 h 15 mins of Avatar with no problem. No offset in image, no drifting and no ghosting increased during watching. Also polarity didn’t reverse.

Can anyone confirm that after more than an hour in the movie, that means my HD250 is fine?

Pitou!
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post #96 of 189 Old 06-10-2011, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Pitou View Post

I'm happy to report that my JVC HD250 might be ok with frame locking. I watched 1 h 15 mins of Avatar with no problem. No offset in image, no drifting and no ghosting increased during watching. Also polarity didn't reverse.

Can anyone confirm that after more than an hour in the movie, that means my HD250 is fine?

Pitou!

This is good news for some newer model JVC owners. It is posible that frame lock is not turned on but the timing is in sync with the VIP product. Every display will be slightly different. JVC did say that they don't support frame lock on any of the there projectors. My RS1 drifts but I tried directv and didn't see any frame drop. It may have been chapter skipping that changed polarity on Blurays. Still need to check on that...if i ever get any time.
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post #97 of 189 Old 06-10-2011, 08:47 AM
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It may have been chapter skipping that changed polarity on Blurays.

Played around with chapter next/previous, FF, Rew, and it always stayed in sync.

I guess I'm lucky with my JVC then!
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post #98 of 189 Old 06-10-2011, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Pitou View Post

Played around with chapter next/previous, FF, Rew, and it always stayed in sync.

I guess I'm lucky with my JVC then!

It also could mean that it is in frame lock since JVC doesn't write the software for their projectors they have no clue if frame lock or genlock is turned on or not. Maybe its just the projectors with Gennum processing that is not in frame lock. Maybe only the RS1 is not frame locked!
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post #99 of 189 Old 06-10-2011, 03:33 PM
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I understand. I hope Jonathan will be able to have clear answers from JVC about their product lines.
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post #100 of 189 Old 06-10-2011, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Pitou View Post

I understand. I hope Jonathan will be able to have clear answers from JVC about their product lines.

My answer was the JVC answer! Came from Jonathan but actually from the head of Engineering in the DILA division of JVC.

Maybe they said that so people wouldn't buy the VIP converters! Be happy Man! LOL
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post #101 of 189 Old 06-10-2011, 04:05 PM
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Maybe they said that so people wouldn't buy the VIP converters! Be happy Man! LOL

Especially since they sell 3D PJ already. I guess they want to push their own models instead and that would be understandable.

I am happy and wish you good luck with your circuit project!
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post #102 of 189 Old 06-10-2011, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Pitou View Post

Especially since they sell 3D PJ already. I guess they want to push their own models instead and that would be understandable.

I am happy and wish you good luck with your circuit project!

Thank you! I have to pick up a few more items. I am sure it will work and I will have an easy way to flip polarity with the circuit. I'll get it working and it will always be in sync. The higher native contrast ratio with the JVC's just gives the image a lot of depth. I am sure it must look good for you. Have you tried tweaking with the Bit Cauldron program to fine tune it? If not you have to. It really works well.

Best to use a little delay and a lower duty cycle to eliminate all of the ghosting. The panels will retain a bit of the previous image so selecting a lower duty cycle like between 60 to 80% and then shift the glasses lens open time a little using delay you can eliminate that slight image from the previous frame. That is the trick to get the delay such that you eliminate ghosting and max out your duty cycle as much as possible so the image is not too dim.

Cheers,

Ron
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post #103 of 189 Old 06-10-2011, 04:28 PM - Thread Starter
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So, it's now reasonable to think my RS2 will indeed work?!

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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post #104 of 189 Old 06-10-2011, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by plissken99 View Post

So, it's now reasonable to think my RS2 will indeed work?!

Except that it uses the same processing chip as my RS1. BUT! There was that 3D setup with RS2's at some show way back when. Hard to say until somebody tries it.
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post #105 of 189 Old 06-11-2011, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

Except that it uses the same processing chip as my RS1. BUT! There was that 3D setup with RS2's at some show way back when. Hard to say until somebody tries it.

Wasn't that a dual projector setup though? Lack of frame lock would be less of an issue in that case...
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post #106 of 189 Old 06-11-2011, 06:36 AM
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Wasn't that a dual projector setup though? Lack of frame lock would be less of an issue in that case...

Would that also be true for a single projector and polarity rotator used in conjunction with passive glasses since it gets its sync from the output of the theater/displayer or does the same frame lock issue arise?
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post #107 of 189 Old 06-11-2011, 07:20 AM
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Wasn't that a dual projector setup though? Lack of frame lock would be less of an issue in that case...

Both projectors would still need to be in sync and if one has slightly different timing than the other it wouldn't work.
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post #108 of 189 Old 06-11-2011, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

Both projectors would still need to be in sync and if one has slightly different timing than the other it wouldn't work.

Well, that's essentially what should happen with the Optoma 3DXL solution; when you run the signal through an hdmi splitter, there is nothing locking the two 3DXLs or projectors to each other. But the drift would be limited to what results from time of transmission from the source, 3:2 pulldown, etc.

I imagine this could result in some smearing & other artifacts, but you certainly wouldn't get to the point where the L/R views are reversed in a polarizing filter setup.
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post #109 of 189 Old 06-11-2011, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by mkoss View Post

Would that also be true for a single projector and polarity rotator used in conjunction with passive glasses since it gets its sync from the output of the theater/displayer or does the same frame lock issue arise?

The same issue would arise, but in my thinking it would not arise (to a fatal degree, anyway) in a dual projector setup. See my post, above.

BTW, I don't know of anyone who has implemented a polarity rotator, I'm very curious as to feasability!
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post #110 of 189 Old 06-11-2011, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by thebard View Post

I imagine this could result in some smearing & other artifacts, but you certainly wouldn't get to the point where the L/R views are reversed in a polarizing filter setup.

If you have a two-projector passive setup that was not frame locked you would end up with depth problems whenever anything pans. If the left projector was ahead of the right projector, for instance, during left to right pans everything would pop out of the screen, and vice-versa for the opposite direction. And since the sync would be drifting, the effect would be changing constantly. A single frame off during a pan would result in a huge depth difference for even moderate pan speeds.

All that being said, for static images there would be no effect at all.
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post #111 of 189 Old 06-11-2011, 10:42 AM
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If you have a two-projector passive setup that was not frame locked you would end up with depth problems whenever anything pans. If the left projector was ahead of the right projector, for instance, during left to right pans everything would pop out of the screen, and vice-versa for the opposite direction. And since the sync would be drifting, the effect would be changing constantly. A single frame off during a pan would result in a huge depth difference for even moderate pan speeds.

All that being said, for static images there would be no effect at all.

Then how does optoma get around this? What keeps the two 3DXLs / projectors locked to each other?

There is a single source (blu-ray, for instance), and the signal is split before it even gets to the problematic projectors, so each projector in a dual setup is only getting either left or right eye views. So I don't see how the passive glasses polarity could ever flip, even with a drift of several frames. For that to happen, the lock would need to be lost at the player, or the splitter, and this would affect all attempts at dual projector setups.

Perhaps I am missing something in my thinking...?
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post #112 of 189 Old 06-11-2011, 12:48 PM
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If they're locked to the source, then they will be locked to each other.

You are correct that the glasses polarity will never flip. If they do, then the 3DXL is broken.
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post #113 of 189 Old 06-11-2011, 12:59 PM
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What I could see happening is video smearing/blurring as the frame drift between left & right views became too great; or uncomfortable "jumps" when camera edits occur (with one eye seeing the previous shot & the other seeing the new shot).

So there you go, Ronomy, no need to perform your mod... just spend $2000-$4000 extra on a two-pj setup!
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post #114 of 189 Old 06-11-2011, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebard View Post

What I could see happening is video smearing/blurring as the frame drift between left & right views became too great; or uncomfortable "jumps" when camera edits occur (with one eye seeing the previous shot & the other seeing the new shot).

You would never see smearing because each eye sees a different projector. Instead, you will see depth changes that were not intended, but only when the camera is moving from side to side. On fast camera moves it creates a "jello-like" effect because it's only the horizontal motion that causes problems. For vertical differences your eyes will automatically compensate.

If you're familiar with the CMOS camera rolling shutter effect, it's looks very similar.
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post #115 of 189 Old 06-11-2011, 01:36 PM
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I think we're talking about the same thing, I just didn't know what it was called. I imagine we will probably start hearing from dual-3DXL owners who hadn't anticipated this with certain projectors.

I can only imagine that the sensio processors & other pre-hdmi demuxers somehow addressed this potential issue?
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post #116 of 189 Old 06-12-2011, 10:59 AM
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So, it's now reasonable to think my RS2 will indeed work?!

So I see you are selling your projector! What do you plan to get to replace it?

Ron
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post #117 of 189 Old 06-12-2011, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, IF I can sell it, I am aiming for the JVC RS40. It's already 3D ready, and if I can sell mine at what I'm asking(which is a reasonable price btw everyone ), the price gap I can get the RS40 at is about the same as buying the 3D VIP device with 2 pairs of glasses.

My Pioneer FPJ1 RS2 clone is for sale here, Videogon and Ebay. It's well cared for and has a fresh bulb.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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post #118 of 189 Old 06-12-2011, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by plissken99 View Post

Well, IF I can sell it, I am aiming for the JVC RS40. It's already 3D ready, and if I can sell mine at what I'm asking(which is a reasonable price btw everyone ), the price gap I can get the RS40 at is about the same as buying the 3D VIP device with 2 pairs of glasses.

It's for sale here, Videogon and Ebay.

You will still have to buy glasses and emitter for the RS40. I just finished a bathroom remodel in my house so I can focus on building the emitter driver for my RS1 now. If I can just get my RS1 in sync with the glasses I'll be happy enough with this for a while. The RS40 puts out about the same amount of lumens as my RS1 based on what i have seen in test reports. The higher wattage bulb doesn't seem to give you any more lumens after calibration.
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post #119 of 189 Old 06-12-2011, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by plissken99 View Post

Well, IF I can sell it, I am aiming for the JVC RS40. It's already 3D ready, and if I can sell mine at what I'm asking(which is a reasonable price btw everyone ), the price gap I can get the RS40 at is about the same as buying the 3D VIP device with 2 pairs of glasses.

My Pioneer FPJ1 RS2 clone is for sale here, Videogon and Ebay. It's well cared for and has a fresh bulb.

I had a thought! My buddy has an RS1x which should have the same video processing card as your RS2/Pioneer. Maybe I can setup a test on his projector to see if it frame locks.
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post #120 of 189 Old 06-12-2011, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Well the RS40 does have 20k more contrast. But yeah if your work around can work I'd be happy to keep the Pioneer.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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