1080p60 per eye 3D over HDMI 1.4a will be possible in 2012 - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 149 Old 02-14-2012, 09:41 PM - Thread Starter
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With the February 15 launch of the AMD Radeon HD 7770/7750 graphic cards there are now two more consumer products on the market that support 1080p60 per eye 3D video over HDMI.
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post #92 of 149 Old 02-19-2012, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Onkyo has announced four new AV receivers with the TX-NR616 and TX-NR515 supporting video upscaling/output at 4K. Sadly it seems unlikely that they will support 1080p60 per eye 3D video since the TX-NR616 datasheet notes that pass-through of 4K video isn't supported.
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post #93 of 149 Old 03-06-2012, 07:11 AM - Thread Starter
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The AMD Radeon HD 7870/7850 graphic cards have been announced for a March 19 launch. When that happens there will be six AMD graphic card models on the market ranging from $109 to $549 MSRP that are capable of 1080p60 per eye 3D video over HDMI.
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post #94 of 149 Old 03-07-2012, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post

Here is a link to one of the 300 MHz HDMI 1.4a chips.

The only current source would be a HTPC. Within 3 years though I think it is likely that 1080p60 per eye video will be possible on one or more future game consoles. As for 3D TV channels I wouldn't even guess at when it might happen but I did find a press release from ESPN that shows that they are considering it.

Really that would make my day.... Sports and video games are most of what I watch on my 3D TV. I would probably have to upgrade but resell would be pretty high. That on an Oled would be amazing.
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post #95 of 149 Old 03-24-2012, 05:10 PM - Thread Starter
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The NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 was released on March 22 and it most likely supports 1080p60 per eye 3D (also called 1080p60 Frame Packing or 1080p60 Stereoscopic 3D) over HDMI. I say most likely since NVIDIA doesn't exactly make things clear and on the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 specification page it simply lists a "maximum digital resolution" of 2560x1600 and doesn't give any details on 3D output. In contrast the AMD Radeon 7970 specification page is very clear on those issues.

There is a lot of evidence though that the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 is capable of 4K over HDMI. The GeForce GTX 680 whitepaper says that the display engine was designed for "4k and 3GHz HDMI displays". Also the Zotac press release for the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 states that it "supports 3840 x 2160, or 4K, displays via HDMI 1.4a and DisplayPort 1.2 ports to take gaming beyond HD resolutions" and the Zotac specification sheet states that the HDMI 1.4a connector is "4K ready" and lists "Quad Full HD (4K)" under the HDTV Ready section. If the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 is capable of 4K over HDMI than it almost certainly is capable of 1080p60 per eye 3D over HDMI as well.
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post #96 of 149 Old 03-24-2012, 05:36 PM
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When the ATSC spec is updated to include the 2025x1080 packed buffer 3D format and frame sequential 1080p/60 3D format then we will see a HDMI spec update also for these frame formats and 4K format updates also for the ATSC and HDMI specs we will see content from the suppliers.
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post #97 of 149 Old 03-25-2012, 01:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

When the ATSC spec is updated to include the 2025x1080 packed buffer 3D format and frame sequential 1080p/60 3D format then we will see a HDMI spec update also for these frame formats and 4K format updates also for the ATSC and HDMI specs we will see content from the suppliers.

HDMI 1.4a is capable of 1080p60 Frame Packing and 2160p30 (3840x2160 at 30 fps) it is simply that they require a 300 MHz HDMI chip. At the CES 2012 HDMI press conference (starting at 11:40 in the video) it was announced that the next HDMI specification would be capable of 2160p60. I would mention that DisplayPort 1.2 is already capable of 2160p60 due to its higher bandwidth which also allows for higher resolution 3D video formats such as "2560x1600p60 Stereoscopic 3D" which can be seen on the AMD Radeon 7970 specifications page. I agree that if ATSC is updated to include a video format we would be more likely to see pre-recorded content made for that video format but the ATSC 3.0 standard is years away from being finished.
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post #98 of 149 Old 04-04-2012, 06:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Yamaha recently released 3 new AV receivers capable of 4K pass through over HDMI (3840x2160 at 30 fps or 4096x2160 at 24 fps) which is noted in their user manuals. The user manuals can be downloaded from the USA Yamaha website (it requires registration) though it is easier to download them from the UK Yamaha website. These are the first AV receivers I know of that are capable of 4K pass through over HDMI. Hopefully this means that they are also capable of 1080p60 Frame Packing.
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post #99 of 149 Old 04-05-2012, 10:35 PM
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Onkyo has 3 or more receivers (i don't even know what those are) that have instaprevue, a technology that "can" (perhaps only?) come with 300mhz chips by Silicone Image. But how can you use this with a TV, isn't the TV's input still a bottleneck?

I haven't seen any LCD 3DTV's that do 1080p60 yet. Im worried that they might not list the spec explicitly or at all do to the relatively low demand for the feature.
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post #100 of 149 Old 04-06-2012, 10:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tory40 View Post

Onkyo has 3 or more receivers (i don't even know what those are) that have instaprevue, a technology that "can" (perhaps only?) come with 300mhz chips by Silicone Image.

As mentioned in this earlier post the two Onkyo AV receivers that were recently released can only upscale to 4K and do not support 4K pass through. My guess is that it is a cost issue and that Onkyo decided to use slower 225 MHz HDMI chips for the inputs and only use a faster 300 MHz HDMI chip for the output. Currently as far as I know only Yamaha has released AV receivers capable of 4K pass through over HDMI. There is the possibility that they support 1080p60 Frame Packing and that Yamaha simply didn't mention that in the user manuals (Yamaha listed the 4K video formats but only mentioned support for 3D video) but there is also the possibility that they don't support it.


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Originally Posted by tory40 View Post

But how can you use this with a TV, isn't the TV's input still a bottleneck?

Until 3D TVs are released that can accept a 1080p60 Frame Packing signal the only devices I know of that can even test for it would be professional HDMI testing equipment.


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Originally Posted by tory40 View Post

I haven't seen any LCD 3DTV's that do 1080p60 yet. Im worried that they might not list the spec explicitly or at all do to the relatively low demand for the feature.

Just my opinion but I think that if a CE company released the first 3D TV capable of 1080p60 Frame Packing they would mention that especially now that there are graphic cards capable of it.
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post #101 of 149 Old 04-07-2012, 09:42 AM
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Are there published specs for 4K and/or 1080p60 packed frame 3D video that fully describe the sound location and size so the audio can be extracted by AVR's and TVs?
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post #102 of 149 Old 04-07-2012, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

Are there published specs for 4K and/or 1080p60 packed frame 3D video that fully describe the sound location and size so the audio can be extracted by AVR's and TVs?

The HDMI 1.4 specification (and more recent versions) would have that information but the last version of the HDMI specification that was available for public download was the HDMI 1.3a specification.
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post #103 of 149 Old 04-07-2012, 10:48 PM
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1080p60 3D is a secondary format under the HDMI 1.4a specification. 4K is not covered.
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post #104 of 149 Old 04-08-2012, 01:11 PM
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If I remember from the HDMI web site the alternate 3D HDMI 1.4a spec for side by side 1080p frames is for frame sequential frames also known as page flipping and not for a packed frame 3D format?
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post #105 of 149 Old 04-08-2012, 02:22 PM
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1080p60 3D frame packing and side-by-side (half) are secondary 3D formats under the 1.4a specification.
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post #106 of 149 Old 04-08-2012, 10:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm View Post

1080p60 3D is a secondary format under the HDMI 1.4a specification. 4K is not covered.

I am certain that the 4K formats (4096x2160 at 24 fps and 3840x2160 at 24, 25, and 30 fps) are in the HDMI 1.4a specification. Those 4K formats are mentioned in the press release for the HDMI 1.4 specification and there are HDMI products that support them. I think you may have read the 3D portion of the HDMI 1.4a specification which is available for public download on the HDMI website.


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Originally Posted by walford View Post

If I remember from the HDMI web site the alternate 3D HDMI 1.4a spec for side by side 1080p frames is for frame sequential frames also known as page flipping and not for a packed frame 3D format?

From what I have read there is no Page Flipping 3D method in HDMI 1.4a. The Page Flipping 3D method is used by NVIDIA 3D Vision (and NVIDIA use a proprietary method to do it). Though it is different than the Page Flipping 3D method you may be thinking of the Side-By-Side (Full) 3D method. A figure for Side-By-Side (Full) can be seen on page 23 of the 3D portion of the HDMI 1.4a specification. Side-By-Side (Full) is similar to the Frame Packing 3D method except instead of the left eye and right eye frames being on the top and bottom they are side by side.
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post #107 of 149 Old 04-09-2012, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post

I am certain that the 4K formats (4096x2160 at 24 fps and 3840x2160 at 24, 25, and 30 fps) are in the HDMI 1.4a specification.

Sorry if my comment was too terse. I was referring to a 3D format.
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post #108 of 149 Old 04-09-2012, 03:10 PM
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OP,
You are correct I was assuming that the HDMI 1.4a optional 1080p SbS Full 3D format was the same as the Stereoscopic Player page flipping format which AFAIK is also what Nvidia uses.
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post #109 of 149 Old 04-13-2012, 11:49 PM
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The Sony HX850 of 2012 is listed as doing 1080p60, but didn't specify whether or not it will do that in 3D so i went down to a local store and checked it out with the monitor resource manager utility and to my dismay it uses the old 225mhz chips.

On a side note, I also loaded up a 3D game with the HX929 in 1080p24 and it doubled or tripled the framerate (and thus flicker rate) and the input lag was very close to making it usable. I'd couldn't try the HX850 in an actual game because Nvidia requires approval or something for all new displays they will support. I would have liked to try it because it supposedly has new faster chips for the 3D processing.
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post #110 of 149 Old 04-14-2012, 08:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tory40 View Post

The Sony HX850 of 2012 is listed as doing 1080p60, but didn't specify whether or not it will do that in 3D so i went down to a local store and checked it out with the monitor resource manager utility and to my dismay it uses the old 225mhz chips.

That is unfortunate news and so far I haven't even heard of one 3D TV capable of 1080p60 Frame Packing. Based on current information I think it is likely that the vast majority of 3D TVs released this year won't support 1080p60 Frame Packing.
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post #111 of 149 Old 04-24-2012, 06:57 PM - Thread Starter
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The AMD Radeon HD 7700M series, AMD Radeon HD 7800M series, and AMD Radeon HD 7900M series have been announced today and they support 1080p60 Frame Packing (AMD uses the term "1080p60 Stereoscopic 3D" ).
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post #112 of 149 Old 04-24-2012, 08:59 PM
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Nvidia has no monopoly on page flipping. The Acer H5360 works quite well with AMD also.
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post #113 of 149 Old 04-26-2012, 06:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob7145 View Post

Nvidia has no monopoly on page flipping. The Acer H5360 works quite well with AMD also.

From what I have read NVIDIA uses a patented/proprietary method of Page Flipping with NVIDIA 3D Vision. As such displays that only support 3D video using NVIDIA 3D Vision won't work with the 3D video from graphic cards made by other companies. I checked the user manual for the Acer H5360 projector and it supports both NVIDIA 3D Vision and DLP Link. Since that projector supports DLP Link it would work with 3D video from AMD graphic cards.

The vast majority of the 3D displays that only supported 3D video using NVIDIA 3D Vision were older 3D computer monitors. Most of the 3D computer monitors released in the last year support 3D video using DisplayPort and/or HDMI as well as supporting NVIDIA 3D Vision. I think in the long term NVIDIA 3D Vision will fade away since from both a consumer and manufacturer viewpoint it really isn't needed now that there are standard ways to send 3D video using DisplayPort and HDMI.
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post #114 of 149 Old 04-27-2012, 09:06 AM
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I would never want to use 3D on an LCD anything. Why buy into crappy LCD tech when for about the same money or less in some instances you can get a much faster DLP projector and make the screen any size you want? The larger the screen the better the 3D effect. Using a monitor for 3D is like eating bits of steak the size of Cherrios.
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post #115 of 149 Old 04-28-2012, 11:26 AM
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I checked out the Samsung ES8000 and it does not have the new HDMI chips. That makes Sony's and Samsungs top end not having it. I'll be trying the active 3D Panasonic, Sharp and Phillips when they come out.
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post #116 of 149 Old 07-08-2012, 09:06 PM
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Any updates :-/
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post #117 of 149 Old 08-23-2012, 08:41 PM
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"LG Has Announced an 84-inch 4K Ultra Definition 3D-capable HDTV"

http://3dvision-blog.com/8301-lg-has-announced-an-84-inch-4k-ultra-definition-3d-capable-hdtv/
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The good thing from all this is that we are probably also going to have support for 1080p 60Hz frame packaged 3D mode sooner than later, so while 4K TV sets at every home is something still in the not so near future, we may all benefit from that even in the next generation of Full HD 3D-capable solutions.
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post #118 of 149 Old 09-01-2012, 04:20 PM
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post #119 of 149 Old 09-01-2012, 07:32 PM
 
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The Sony, Toshiba and LG 84" 4K 3DTVs will sell for $20,000+ each. eek.gif
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post #120 of 149 Old 09-11-2012, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
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I recently checked on the price of 300 MHz HDMI chips and they tend to cost about $2 more than 225 MHz HDMI chips. As such hopefully the lack of 3D TVs this year that could accept 1080p60 Frame Packing was due to their development time.
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