Long HDMI cable CEC non recognition 3D device - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 18 Old 11-09-2011, 10:16 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
RichBell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hello techs!

I have a recent installation of:

Epson 3D projector 3010
Sony STRDA5600ES 3D compatible receiver
Sony 3D blue ray BDPS780
There is a 60 foot premium HDMI cable run from the receiver to the projector

The 3D message/alert appears on the screen when trying to play 3D movie
(Generally) "Your Blue Ray player does not recognize a 3D compatible display"

This is when the player, receiver and projector all connected.

When I omit the receiver everything works as expected and the 3D movie plays with no artifacts.

AND once the player starts playing 3D I can quickly insert the receiver in the middle of the HDMI chain and everything passes through with no problem.

Sony is saying my HDMI cable is too long to the projector.

My problem seems to be the communication and recognition of the 3D capable projector/device when all three devices are connected.

I am not an expert on HDMI 1.4 (and this is why I am posting :-)

Thoughts....

Is the problem related to CEC communication?

and if it is CEC why is CEC affected over a longer HDMI cable run with the projector, receiver and player plugged in but 3D video works without any noticeable artifacts? I would think CEC would be more robust than the digital video of 3D!

Is CEC a pass through or is CEC buffered with each device added? Is there such a thing as an HDMI terminator for V1.4?

Do HDMI buffers have active buffereing of CEC?


I am not the only one upgrading to 3D projection and there are a ton of us with longer HDMI cable runs for sure that are/may going to see this problem.
I just spent a ton of money (to me) having to upgrade a 5500ES to a 5600ES and no workie right.
RichBell is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 18 Old 11-09-2011, 10:55 AM
GEP
Advanced Member
 
GEP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 677
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
The problem most likely is not CEC related.

The projector, when it is connected to a repeater (the AVR) or a source device (Blu-ray player) supplies an EDID (a statment and list of the capablities of the projector). It is here that the projector lets the other products upstream know that is HDMI 1.4a 3D capable. The when there is a repeater device (AVR) it reads the projector's EDID, compares it the AVR's capablities and then passes a new EDID to the source device that is a combination of video capablites shared by the AVR and projector and audio capablites of the AVR - it is not just a simple pass-thru.

It sounds like the projector's EDID is corrupted when it goes to the AVR and the AVR is not reading the projector's 3D confirmation. Since the AVR cannot read the 3D confirmation, the AVR cannot pass that to the Blu-ray player. When the Blu-ray player does send a 3D signal, it includes in something called the INFO FRAME the type of 3D signal that is being sent. Neither teh EDID or the INFO FRAME are directly tied to CEC.

There might be settings in the AVR that are interfering, such as scaling the 3D signal from 1080p/24 (1080p 3D Frame Packing from the Blu-ray) to 1080p/60 or something like that.
GEP is offline  
post #3 of 18 Old 11-09-2011, 11:20 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
walford's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 16,789
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Your receiver is not passing through the data untouched in one or in both directions.

The maximum reccomended length for a HDMI high speed cable from a 3D BR player is 24 feet. However many users have been able to use an older high quality cable without loss of content.
walford is offline  
post #4 of 18 Old 11-09-2011, 11:46 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tlogan6797's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 4,834
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Agree with GEP. However, you may need to add an EDID spoofer between the player and AVR. That forces the player to think it sees a 3D capable receiver regardless of what the AVR thinks. At least that's how it worked out for me (Sony BDP 3D - spoofer - Denon 3806 - Mits 65").

Tom Logan
Everytime I reply the thread ends
Need motivation? Get LOGANED
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1014847

An as-yet un-named theater designed by Big-WarrenP-BritInVA
tlogan6797 is offline  
post #5 of 18 Old 11-10-2011, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
RichBell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks all so much!

I got more frustrated today and pulled the Epson 3010 projector down. I connected the projector to the STRDA5600ES AVR with 3 feet of HDMI cable.
I had to omit the long cable from the equation!!!

When attempting to play Narnia (the 3D DVD that comes with the projector) the BDPS780 player would crash about 50% of the time at start up when going through the STRDA5600ES AVR.

Next I tried Green Lantern and had similar problems when going through the STRDA5600ES AVR.


So.. next I removed the AVR and went with a 3 foot direct connection from the BDPS780 player to the Epson 3010 projector. Everything worked fine for 10 ea repeats for both disks.

It appears that only when the AVR is inserted are there problems. Now I realize that it may not be that simple but long cable or short..

I'm not sure what to do next? I guess after this last test I am not sure if an HDMI spoofer is the answer?

I know I have to call the ES division of Sony again... I have their number...

Many thanks for those who have replied!
RichBell is offline  
post #6 of 18 Old 11-20-2011, 11:51 PM
Member
 
x-evil-x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 106
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
defninetly the cable. i had a 50 foot cable i was using for years and it was fine for 1080i because my tv was only capable of it. when i got my 3d plasma tv i bought another 3d ready receiver and the ps3 would not pick up 3d for the display. it did once but it dropped out. i tried a 30 foot cable and same problem wouldn't work even though it was high speed ready. i bought a 24 foot cable and all the problems are gone it detects it now and this cable barely reaches.
x-evil-x is offline  
post #7 of 18 Old 11-21-2011, 01:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tlogan6797's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 4,834
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:


I'm not sure what to do next? I guess after this last test I am not sure if an HDMI spoofer is the answer?

Sounds like a spoofer should fix it if you want to keep the AVR in the chain.

Tom Logan
Everytime I reply the thread ends
Need motivation? Get LOGANED
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1014847

An as-yet un-named theater designed by Big-WarrenP-BritInVA
tlogan6797 is offline  
post #8 of 18 Old 11-26-2011, 02:08 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
RichBell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Sony sent a new 5600es... I installed it and there was no change.

I have called Epson because there could still be a problem on that end. I am guessing that since the 5600es has been out for over a year there are 1000s of 3D installs working without problems. The 3010 projector is very new to Epson

Spoofer... would you guys reccomend the Geffen HDMI Detective?
RichBell is offline  
post #9 of 18 Old 11-28-2011, 08:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tlogan6797's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 4,834
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:


would you guys reccomend the Geffen HDMI Detective?

That's the one I use and the only one I know of. In order to get it to work with my Sony 3DBR, I had to go BR--Geffen-TV, THEN go back and go BR--Geffen--4x4 matrix switch---TV. I couldn't get it to work by programming according the directions. But I think it's more of Sony thing than a Geffen thing.

Tom Logan
Everytime I reply the thread ends
Need motivation? Get LOGANED
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1014847

An as-yet un-named theater designed by Big-WarrenP-BritInVA
tlogan6797 is offline  
post #10 of 18 Old 11-28-2011, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
RichBell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thank you Tom! I have ordered a Geffen and will get back here after a play around a bit with it. Cheers!
RichBell is offline  
post #11 of 18 Old 12-06-2011, 11:49 AM
Member
 
mcnizzel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 158
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'm installing a 3010 next week and I'm worried I'll have the same thing happen to me.

I'm looking at a long cable run and can't find much info about what is and isn't working, I can only find the recommend high speed specs of 25 feet or less.

first I asked some monoprice support folks and they said none of their hdmi over cat6 adapter supports 3d, so that was out.

then I figured I'd order a 22AWG 50 foot HDMI cable and a passive or powered if needed extender repeater box.

I am hoping this works, I also bought a 35 foot and 40 foot cable of the same specs to see if I can drill down a distance that is acceptable.

I'll be using a pioneer 921 if anyone has any suggetsions on what to do here?

I don't mean to hijack the thread but I'm rocking an epson 3010 and wondering if there is a solution I haven't found yet, or if there is a way I can contribute to one.

thank in advance, and good luck OP let us know what happens??
mcnizzel is offline  
post #12 of 18 Old 02-24-2012, 10:50 AM
Senior Member
 
charlievoviii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 312
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
i have my HTPC using 40feet High Speed HDMI to my Onky TX-NR709 Receiver, and from the receiver to my Epson 5010 with another 40feet High Speed HDMI. No issue here playing 2D/3D contents. Dont buy cheap cable if you're going over 25feet. Cause i have tried buying a cheap cable from monoprice.com "Epic FAIL"
charlievoviii is offline  
post #13 of 18 Old 02-24-2012, 10:53 AM
Member
 
mcnizzel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 158
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
If I were you I'd think about getting new hdmi's from monoprice, soon they'll have redmere tech in them and I plan on using them regularly to prevent any of these issues.
mcnizzel is offline  
post #14 of 18 Old 02-26-2012, 06:48 AM
Senior Member
 
charlievoviii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 312
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnizzel View Post

If I were you I'd think about getting new hdmi's from monoprice, soon they'll have redmere tech in them and I plan on using them regularly to prevent any of these issues.

why would i get a new cable, when my working perfectly now? I will let someone else be the guinea pig for the Redmere stuffs.
charlievoviii is offline  
post #15 of 18 Old 08-17-2012, 01:36 PM
Newbie
 
meiya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi Rich, We are having similiar problem. 3D not working with 5010e,sony blue ray player and Onkyo TX NR-1009 receiver. When we call EPSON technical support, they said that SONY blue ray player does not work with EPSON 5010e and recommended to buy samsung 3D blue ray player. Is that the way you solved your problem. I am not a techie guy, the installation guys also not aware of this. Please help.
meiya is offline  
post #16 of 18 Old 08-17-2012, 01:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Augerhandle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,701
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 73
What's the model number of your Sony player?

"The wise understand by themselves; fools follow the reports of others"-Tibetan Proverb
 
Augerhandle is offline  
post #17 of 18 Old 08-17-2012, 03:40 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
walford's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 16,789
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
What sequence are you using to turn on the 3 devices, TV, RCVR, Player?
walford is offline  
post #18 of 18 Old 08-18-2012, 12:11 PM
Newbie
 
meiya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
It is BDP-S580

Thanks
meiya is offline  
Reply 3D Tech Talk

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off