It still annoys me! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 13 Old 01-10-2012, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
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I found out last year that if i got a new 3D TV i would have to replace my A/V receiver i paid alot of money for because it isn't hdmi 1.4. While i understand this now i still don't accept it! Think about it, all the devices in my home theater are hdmi 1.3, so if i got a 3D TV only one of my devices (the TV) would now be 1.4. So now even though all but one of my devices is 1.3 i have to replace my expensive receiver? I can't possibly be the only one that finds this annoying. Also, while we are on the subject, to get full HD 3D, you need hdmi 1.4 right, so how come a PS3 which is 1.3 can be used as a 3D blu-ray player? It is all so maddening, even after having it all explained to me.
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post #2 of 13 Old 01-10-2012, 05:42 PM
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In answer to you second question, see here:
http://community.us.playstation.com/thread/2276654

If everything else is 1.3, then just connect your one 1.4 device directly to one of the TV inputs and use an out-of-band audio connection to the receiver for that device. Keep everything else on the receiver. AFAIK a 1.4 3DTV should still display 1.3 signals. You may want to find other people who own your specific receiver and see how far they have managed to push things.

Personally I'm still using an old S-Video/composite receiver, I just bypassed it for the HDMI video sources and only use it to switch audio to the speakers in those cases. Took a bit of programming on the remote control to sync the TV/receiver device switching, buts works well enough.
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post #3 of 13 Old 01-11-2012, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for your reply zkidz but i was merely whining, i already knew about the PS3 update and everything. I also know if i wanted to i can just connect my stuff directly to the tv and send optical audio to the receiver. If i was only going to use a receiver for that though i would have gotten a really cheap receiver that can't even do hdmi instead of the fancy expensive one i have. The 1.4 device i was talking about was the hypothetical new 3D TV. I just find the whole thing stupid that's all. You have a TV that's 1.4, and despite the fact that all of your 3D sources (devices) are 1.3 your receiver still needs to be 1.4. I'm a very logical person, so when someone says to me that for 3D you need 1.4, yet all of my devices i will use for 3D (PS3, cable box, xbox 360) are 1.3, it drives me mad because it doesn't follow logic. If the PS3 can get an update that lets it be a 3D blu-ray player and be 1.4 compliant, that would mean when you are talking about 1.3 or 1.4 you are talking about software, not hardware. Why then can't a reciever receive an update if it is merely software? Thank you again for replying, i hope you are enjoying 3D more than i am. I know i'm stuck and will need to get a new receiver when i buy my new TV, it just bothers me that it doesn't make sense.
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post #4 of 13 Old 01-11-2012, 07:48 AM
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In theory, there is nothing new about HDMI 1.4, compared to 1.3 except for new 3D headers and some other futuristic stuff, not affecting anything now anyway (it's like HDMI 1.3 spec supports 1080p 120Hz input from the beginning and no hardware ever supported it). So without understanding those 3D headers, your receiver may not work properly. Xbox360, PS3 do most of the stuff in software, so it's easy to update. Have you check receiver maker for update, I doubt very much, but it won't hurt. To be honest, I never fully understood the whole receiver concept and your case just prove the point. They have 4K TV displayed at CES this year, could be on the market in a yr or 2 and as a new tech that probably won't work with any receiver sold now as well.
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post #5 of 13 Old 01-11-2012, 09:30 AM
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I bought the 310 panny Blu-ray with dual HDMI (one for 3D signal to TV the other to legacy A/V) for around $175. Sold my free copy of avatar for $100 on EBAY and then sold my old Blu ray player for almost $75 on EBAY. Problem solved.
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post #6 of 13 Old 01-11-2012, 10:25 AM
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You only need a need as new receiver if you are going to pass Blu-Ray 3D content through it from a 3D BR player or from a PS3 and want to remove the audio and play it with the receiver. You do not need a new receiver if you are going to play 3D from cable or satellite.
However, if your receiver alters in any way the content that it passes through to your TV you may in fact need a new receiver.
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post #7 of 13 Old 01-11-2012, 10:41 AM
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You might try your current AVR to make sure it won't pass 1.4. I have an old Harman Kardon and it passes through the signal fine even though the signal wasn't even thought of when it was manufactured.

I would say that if your AVR basically just passes through the HDMI signal, you have a higher liklihood of it working to pass through the 1.4 signal. It's the receivers that use video processing on the image that are stuck.
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post #8 of 13 Old 01-13-2012, 09:57 AM - Thread Starter
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My receiver isn't the "pass-thru" kind. If it was it wouldn't be able to use hdmi to give me the HD audio. It is definately getting the signal from hdmi and processing it, at least on the audio side of hdmi. For all that decoding Dolby truHD and DTS HD master, it is definately doing more than just passing the signal along untouched. To put it simply: anyone that bought a nice, expensive av receiver just before the 3D craze hit, got screwed. Manufacterers probably paid others companies off to get a new hdmi standard released (1.4) so people would have to re-purchase everything in order to get 3D.
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post #9 of 13 Old 01-13-2012, 04:27 PM
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Pass Through means that the signal leaving the AVR is exactlhy the same as the signal that was received it. The fact that an AVR copies the audio portion of the signal for it's own use does not prevent the entire signal from being passed through also.
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post #10 of 13 Old 01-13-2012, 04:33 PM
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To answer the original post, yes, it is annoying, and yes, it is maddening.

It's quite confusing until you brush up on several topics, like 1080p frame packing at 24 fps, how 3D Blu-ray affects HDMI audio, etc.

I was able to avoid buying a new receiver, since I ended up doing a direct connection from my PC (with an HDMI 1.4 video card and Blu-ray drive) to my TV, and I have the audio going to my old receiver via separate analog cables for 5.1.

So that works for 3D Blu-ray and 3D PC games.

The only 3D game I have on Xbox is Gears of War 3, but that uses side-by-side so it works anyway. I do have a few games that support 3D on the PS3, but I'm willing to give up 3D on those...
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post #11 of 13 Old 01-16-2012, 07:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

Pass Through means that the signal leaving the AVR is exactlhy the same as the signal that was received it. The fact that an AVR copies the audio portion of the signal for it's own use does not prevent the entire signal from being passed through also.

Sounds like what you're saying is just because my AVR is using the signal to decode my loss-less audio doesn't mean it's altering it? How then does someone tell if their AVR is changing the signal. If it's just using the signal to process the audio but not changing it i shouldn't have to replace it, because it would be like plugging my devices straight into the 3D TV, no?
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post #12 of 13 Old 01-18-2012, 06:06 AM
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Years ago I could understand the o/p's complaint but not so much now to be honest because we have the option of re-selling our 1.3 receivers on Ebay and getting a fairly good price for them!

Then we can add a bit more cash to the money the ebay sale raises to buy the 1.4 receiver. I did this with my Onkyo. Easy!
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post #13 of 13 Old 01-18-2012, 07:12 AM
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The manufacturers kept the legacy digital audio connection. So from their point of view they maintained backward compatibility with most any AVR.
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