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post #1 of 34 Old 01-13-2012, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Did anyone who attended CES have a chance to see this product. Was it active; or just on display? If it was active, how was the picture quality and 3D effect? If as advertised, it should be a low cost solution until my HDTV actually needs replacement.

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post #2 of 34 Old 01-13-2012, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clapple View Post

Did anyone who attended CES have a chance to see this product. Was it active; or just on display? If it was active, how was the picture quality and 3D effect? If as advertised, it should be a low cost solution until my HDTV actually needs replacement.

A bit of googling reveals it was there and is an "active' solution. From the below bystanders observation it sounds like its going to be very sensitive to the underlying quality of your display though (or maybe just a no go zone altogether). Looks like it does the same thing as the 3d vip - just not as well.

http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/Wo...ke-3D-No.shtml

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post #3 of 34 Old 01-13-2012, 10:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks TK421. That's the info I was looking for. Guess I can forget that one.

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post #4 of 34 Old 01-14-2012, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clapple View Post

Thanks TK421. That's the info I was looking for. Guess I can forget that one.

I use the Theater at 60hz on a Panasonic AE4000 and at 120hz on an Acer H5360. In spite of the slanted article, motion is fluid on both displays. At 60hz, yes there is some flicker but mainly perceptible in brighter scenes. I've minimized it with careful tuning using RF glasses. The Panasonic proj. uses LCD panels, properly tuned, no ghosting.

Flicker is a subjective argument that varies among individuals but I was fine with it on the Panasonic. Using the Theater at 120hz on the Acer and things are indeed outstanding. At worst there is some color shift because of the various shades shutter glasses are coated. Even tuning the RF transmitter can shift it to a more natural tone if one is patient.

There is a dedicated thread on this forum regarding the VIP3D/3DNow Theater and most of them don't feel like that writer. I never regretted being an earlier adopter of the product last year.

Personally I would rather watch 3D on a projection system over any other video display as it is more immersive than trying to narrow one's visual perception into a smaller area.

The Theater product was never about going against a new 3D video display but opened a sector to those who were happy with what they already owned. Projector owners that were previously non-3D capable especially appreciate that results, add to that side-by-side and top2bottom formats and it made things even better.

Keep in mind there are writers and there are real users. Of course if your goal is to buy "new" then that is not a bad decision either.
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post #5 of 34 Old 01-14-2012, 07:28 AM
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SgtVideo;

thanx for the info. you had mentioned somewhere else you were doing active 3D with a non-3D pj. now i know how. so i just took a closer look at the vip website and i see the theatre has a vesa port for an external emitter.

you're using a RF emitter... i'm assuming it's the bit cauldron variety.

as for the article... to defend 3Dnow's display at CEDIA... they had the worst case scenario for their setup. unlike EVERY other display that had covered/cubicle light controlled display areas... the 3Dnow booth was right out in the middle of the harsh lights of the auditorium floor. and unlike the high dollar display booths... they only used a white roll up screen.

having said that, the 3D was quite decent. ghosting was present... but given the setup... it was to be expected.

was it as good as the 3D setup presented in the epson booth with the 480hz 5010? well.... no.... but then again, neither did any of the other 3D booths compared either.

any chance the new 3Dnow theater will be below 250? as i don't think the 3d-xl will work for my 1080p 2D vivitek... ...not sure it (my pj) can accept a 120hz signal.
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post #6 of 34 Old 01-14-2012, 09:02 AM
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We use our Theater at 60Hz with an older 1080i CRT RPTV. Its 720p signal is being converted to 1080i by the Reon processor in an Onkyo 3007. Even with the 1080i flicker added in, flicker hasn't really been an issue for us. VIP and Optoma RF glasses are being used along with a VIP RF emitter, and the tunability of this combo has gone a long way to minimize flicker and ghosting.

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post #7 of 34 Old 01-14-2012, 04:50 PM
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Fair enough. There's nothing like real user experiences .

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post #8 of 34 Old 01-14-2012, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post

SgtVideo;

thanx for the info. you had mentioned somewhere else you were doing active 3D with a non-3D pj. now i know how. so i just took a closer look at the vip website and i see the theatre has a vesa port for an external emitter.

you're using a RF emitter... i'm assuming it's the bit cauldron variety.

as for the article... to defend 3Dnow's display at CEDIA... they had the worst case scenario for their setup. unlike EVERY other display that had covered/cubicle light controlled display areas... the 3Dnow booth was right out in the middle of the harsh lights of the auditorium floor. and unlike the high dollar display booths... they only used a white roll up screen.

having said that, the 3D was quite decent. ghosting was present... but given the setup... it was to be expected.

was it as good as the 3D setup presented in the epson booth with the 480hz 5010? well.... no.... but then again, neither did any of the other 3D booths compared either.

any chance the new 3Dnow theater will be below 250? as i don't think the 3d-xl will work for my 1080p 2D vivitek... ...not sure it (my pj) can accept a 120hz signal.

Bit Cauldron makes the same RF glasses under Monstervision and Optoma label.

I doubt pricing will be made public until remaining stock of Theaters is reduced to a certain level.

Post your Vivitek model# and I can help you with that.
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post #9 of 34 Old 01-14-2012, 06:16 PM
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SgtVideo;

i have the vivitek h1080fd with a maximum of 85hz....

so there's no doubt i'll be going with the RF emitter & glasses over the Gen2 IR emitter and glasses.

i noticed vip's site lists/has the glasses for sales but not the converters... is it being sold through a different dealer?
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post #10 of 34 Old 01-15-2012, 04:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post

SgtVideo;

i have the vivitek h1080fd with a maximum of 85hz....

so there's no doubt i'll be going with the RF emitter & glasses over the Gen2 IR emitter and glasses.

i noticed vip's site lists/has the glasses for sales but not the converters... is it being sold through a different dealer?

Yes I see the max Vsync at 85hz, in that case whenever the consumer version of TheaterPlus is released you would be able to use the next sync bracket of 72hz. Does that make much of a difference over 60hz? Yes, according to one of the developers I spoke to.

That would help my Panny AE4000 out of the 60hz slot.

Actually the VIP site will be phased out at any time as 3DNOW takes over distribution and 3D-VIP becomes primarily developer and upper tier support. If there are a few Theaters left in Jonathan's hands then you may be able to take advantage of a 30-day evaluation. Email here to find out but don't expect an answer until they have returned and settled back from CES.

support2@3d-vip.com

I hope to be beta testing some new hardware this year plus some possible 3D glasses redesigns.

The only other caveat that comes to mind in using 3D converters that output frame packed video is maintaining frame lock with the signal. My Samsung rear projection DLP set has the issue and so do some of the JVC and Benq projectors. This not the fault of the VIP product but is a weakness of some video designs and if the displays is not of recent vintage the manufacturer generally will not offer a fix.

When the Samsung has sync at 60hz the 3D is excellent but gradually drifts in and out of sync over several minutes and ends up ghosting then looking great then back to ghosting. My AE4000 syncs fine.

I do not know if the Vivitek has that issue but a 30-day test drive would certainly uncover it.
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post #11 of 34 Old 01-15-2012, 06:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the additional replies. Seems like real users have a different opinion, than the writer. When this product becomes available in Feb., or later, I think there will be reports of actual results.

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post #12 of 34 Old 01-15-2012, 11:01 AM
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SgtVideo;

thanx for the info. i'll send them an email and see if i can get an evaluation unit. ...can you put in a good word for me?

i've looked closely at vivitek's 720p dlplink 3d ready pj's... and interestly they too have a max vysnc at 85hz. hmmm... so aside from the dlplink chip (which creates the flashes inbetween frames for the dlp glasses to sync with)...i'm assuming they can accept a 120hz signal but only outputs it up to 85hz vsync max.

as for my own pj... i'm assuming it will have no problem locking to it's default 60hz vsync. obviously, if 72hz locks in and makes a visible difference then amen to that.
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post #13 of 34 Old 01-15-2012, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post

SgtVideo;

thanx for the info. i'll send them an email and see if i can get an evaluation unit. ...can you put in a good word for me?

i've looked closely at vivitek's 720p dlplink 3d ready pj's... and interestly they too have a max vysnc at 85hz. hmmm... so aside from the dlplink chip (which creates the flashes inbetween frames for the dlp glasses to sync with)...i'm assuming they can accept a 120hz signal but only outputs it up to 85hz vsync max.

as for my own pj... i'm assuming it will have no problem locking to it's default 60hz vsync. obviously, if 72hz locks in and makes a visible difference then amen to that.

By evaluation I mean you will place an order with Jonathan, if he has any, after 30 days he will refund your purchase price less shipping if things don't work out. Just want to make sure you didn't think it was a free test drive. When VIP3D started last year they gave us all the 30 day grace period and even extended it for some individuals to work out special problems. I have no idea what 3DNow's policy will be in that regard. Plus other vendors had their own return policies in force as well.

Jonathan felt strongly about his product so he went the extra mile to satisfy the customer.

The current Theaters will operate at 60 or 120hz, so in your case you would use the 60hz setting. The new Theater+ models when they become available for consumers will have a few other frequency brackets. That's the only reason I mentioned 72hz earlier. You can see what I mean on the 3DNow site.

http://3dnow.com/product.html

The unit on the left is the current Theater, just rebranded with their logo. There is an error in regards to 1080P, it should read 720P. The TheaterPlus unit on the right is the one I mentioned with frequency brackets and it does 1080P. There will also be a Pro version for the CI folks (installers).

BTW, DLP-link glasses operate at 120hz.
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post #14 of 34 Old 01-15-2012, 08:18 PM
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thanx for explaination on the different models and possible evaluation policy.

BTW, DLP-link glasses operate at 120hz.
which is why i'm confused about the specs of vivitek's 720p 3D ready pjs and how they differ from my vivitek 1080p 2D pj.
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post #15 of 34 Old 01-16-2012, 06:45 AM
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I'm a little confused here, last year i saw reviews for this VIP theatre product and they were good. Now 3D-VIP has switched to 3D-now to sell it for them and all the suddent the product is crap as seen in the link in the 2nd post? Why would a product become less capable just because reseller or distributor has changed?
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post #16 of 34 Old 01-16-2012, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blaket81 View Post

I'm a little confused here, last year i saw reviews for this VIP theatre product and they were good. Now 3D-VIP has switched to 3D-now to sell it for them and all the suddent the product is crap as seen in the link in the 2nd post? Why would a product become less capable just because reseller or distributor has changed?

It didn't. The demo setup was in a less-than-optimal area, under bright lighting, with a white screen (which reflects back more light, exascerbating any flicker present). That was one person's opinion based on a few minutes' viewing. Remember that the reporter had to cover a lot of ground in order to report on as many of the products being shown at CES as possible, so a lengthy eval in a proper environment wasn't in the cards.

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post #17 of 34 Old 01-16-2012, 12:27 PM
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Ok i understand now, after reading your reply and re-reading the rest of them. It's the same product with the same performance. It doesn't sound like you can trust this reporters review as everyone is stating this wasn't an ideal environment to test.
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post #18 of 34 Old 01-17-2012, 08:53 AM
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I wouldn't say not trust. Chris is an OK guy and a past contributor to these forums. Just take into account the environment he was viewing in and his tight time constraints and balance it with the positive reports you've read here.

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post #19 of 34 Old 01-19-2012, 07:39 AM
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I have one of the old 3D shutter glasses systems that worked with a CRT tv, along with a number of 3d dvds. Anyone know if those 3d dvds will work with this system?
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post #20 of 34 Old 01-23-2012, 02:47 PM
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There was some discussion earlier relating to a problem the Theater product had maintaining frame lock with some projectors. Has this issue been addressed in the Theater and Theater plus models? Is this a projector issue for which there may not be a workaround?

I don't exactly understand the details of what the problem is, but think I understand the outcome. Can someone explain?



Home Theater: Acer H9500BD 3D Projector, 120" Elite Screen, Sony BDP-S780 3D Blu-Ray Player, Logitech Z-5500 5.1 Surround

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post #21 of 34 Old 01-23-2012, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InCali View Post

There was some discussion earlier relating to a problem the Theater product had maintaining frame lock with some projectors. Has this issue been addressed in the Theater and Theater plus models? Is this a projector issue for which there may not be a workaround?

I don't exactly understand the details of what the problem is, but think I understand the outcome. Can someone explain?



It's a display issue. The display needs to lock itself onto the incoming signal or the 3D image will wander in and out of L/R sync. This manifests itself as increasing then decreasing ghosting and the speed of this cycling varies from display to display. Since the amount of sync disparity is variable, it's likely that nothing can be done on the Theater's side to stabilize things.

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post #22 of 34 Old 01-23-2012, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post

It's a display issue. The display needs to lock itself onto the incoming signal or the 3D image will wander in and out of L/R sync. This manifests itself as increasing then decreasing ghosting and the speed of this cycling varies from display to display. Since the amount of sync disparity is variable, it's likely that nothing can be done on the Theater's side to stabilize things.

Are there a list of "problem" displays out there? Or displays that do work? The projector I have has a v-sync spec which states a range of 50-100Hz). This would "seem" to imply that it can lock on to a signal within that range. It seems like some clever person would be able to come up with some sort of a device using predefined inputs which would test a display. If people knew for sure that their display would work, they would certainly be more inclined to shell out the money to buy this particular product. If there are known displays which won't work, however, it would work the other way. In any case, I'm sure the consumer would want to know.....

So, a Pre factum/A priori test would be nice....ideas??

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post #23 of 34 Old 01-29-2012, 10:56 AM
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I'm exited about the product, just wish it was passive.
LL
LL
LL
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post #24 of 34 Old 01-31-2012, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAdude View Post

I have one of the old 3D shutter glasses systems that worked with a CRT tv, along with a number of 3d dvds. Anyone know if those 3d dvds will work with this system?

I emailed the company and heard back from them. As I expected, it will not play the older 3D format, only blue ray.
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post #25 of 34 Old 01-31-2012, 10:39 AM
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Has there been a price set yet? Or just the same as the 3dVIP Theater version.
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post #26 of 34 Old 01-31-2012, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InCali View Post

Are there a list of "problem" displays out there? Or displays that do work? The projector I have has a v-sync spec which states a range of 50-100Hz). This would "seem" to imply that it can lock on to a signal within that range. It seems like some clever person would be able to come up with some sort of a device using predefined inputs which would test a display. If people knew for sure that their display would work, they would certainly be more inclined to shell out the money to buy this particular product. If there are known displays which won't work, however, it would work the other way. In any case, I'm sure the consumer would want to know.....

So, a Pre factum/A priori test would be nice....ideas??

Well when Jonathan first released the converters last year that was not a problem as he gave you 30 days with a return guarantee. So if you were one of the few with a frame lock problem you could at least get your money back.

I do not know if 3DNOW would have that policy since they become distributor which leaves it up to each vendor to establish their own policy in that regard.

Best of my recollection is that only a few Benq and JVC projectors had the frame lock issue besides my Samsung RP DLP. The JVC's were like single digit models, i.e.: RS1, HD1.
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post #27 of 34 Old 01-31-2012, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post

SgtVideo;

i have the vivitek h1080fd with a maximum of 85hz....

so there's no doubt i'll be going with the RF emitter & glasses over the Gen2 IR emitter and glasses.

i noticed vip's site lists/has the glasses for sales but not the converters... is it being sold through a different dealer?

Your correct on the 85hz. So if you jump in now then you looking at 60hz 3D.

If you don't mind holding out then you have a chance for 72hz plus 1080P in the Plus version. The unknown for now is pricing.

VIP's site is running at minimum and will eventually be phased out to my understanding. I will private message you a contact email address to you and then you can find out if you can get a direct sale. Last I heard they only had a few RF glasses and they were substituing Optomas for now to satisfy any warranty issues. All their new glasses will be rebranded to 3DNow.

Personally I would hold off until pricing on both the Theater and Plus version is made known. At that point you might decide the Plus version would be the best choice.
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post #28 of 34 Old 01-31-2012, 02:21 PM
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With some of the commentary and literature regarding the 3DNow upcoming product line I was able to make contact to get better clarification regarding the Theater product line for 2012.

Either a representative from either 3DNow or 3DVIP will hopefully post information that will help clear up some of discussions in the past threads. So I look forward to that as I am getting a little confused myself between the capabilities of Theater and Theater+

It sounds like there is a revision of the current Theater that I am not clear about, so I look forward to what is revealed on that subject in a few days.
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post #29 of 34 Old 01-31-2012, 06:57 PM
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yeah... if my understanding is that a 72hz lock will make a significant difference in minimizing ghosting. then i think i'll opt for the plus.
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post #30 of 34 Old 02-01-2012, 04:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post

yeah... if my understanding is that a 72hz lock will make a significant difference in minimizing ghosting. then i think i'll opt for the plus.

That's why I want one of their representatives to straighten things out on here as it seems what I discussed over the phone back in December is different compared to what the new literature is showing.

So evidently they keep revising things before final release. If indeed the 3DNow 2012 Theater (that's what I'm calling it for now) has been upgraded to 1080P and HDMI 1.4a, then I would prefer they state in these threads the new specification.

So I am hoping either 3DNow or Jonathan will give us a clearer picture of their first quarter plans in the Theater threads.
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