Official Omega 3D passive projection system thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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3D Tech Talk > Official Omega 3D passive projection system thread
InlineTwin's Avatar InlineTwin 04:22 PM 12-13-2013
Actually please tell us you are changing the glasses! I just purchased the filter system and my family rejected wearing the glasses. We have been using a linear polarizer system with nice big lens, lightweight glasses they practically disappear from the viewing frame...The glasses with this kit were unacceptable to the locals here :/ I didn't even get it all the way out the of the box before it was vocally made clear to me I wasted the money on this kit. I still want a better performing system than the polarizers offer, but the human factors must be considered. If there is any opportunity to improve the human interface point I would jump on it.

motorman45's Avatar motorman45 05:29 PM 12-13-2013
the current frame was developed with Panavision for use in theaters and while not pretty to look at functions well. it is not perfect but ive never had a complaint like yours. i am sorry you dont like them. we have sold tens of thousands of these with the only complaint that they dont fit children very well. a new frame mold costs $6k min and we need to test its performance as there are several critical factors in making the optics work correctly. if i can offer a new frame it will have better fit to a wider range of head sizes and possibly folding ear stalks.
the original did not have folding as we do not want the theater goers to steal them. the new frame will be developmental and i will post what i can as it happens.
imbloodyskint's Avatar imbloodyskint 06:31 PM 12-13-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman45 View Post

the current frame was developed with Panavision for use in theaters and while not pretty to look at functions well. it is not perfect but ive never had a complaint like yours. i am sorry you dont like them. we have sold tens of thousands of these with the only complaint that they dont fit children very well. a new frame mold costs $6k min and we need to test its performance as there are several critical factors in making the optics work correctly. if i can offer a new frame it will have better fit to a wider range of head sizes and possibly folding ear stalks.
the original did not have folding as we do not want the theater goers to steal them. the new frame will be developmental and i will post what i can as it happens.

A New designed Pair of glasses would be a hugely welcomed by myself and a Great step forward mate smile.gif
While I can use the ones you sell now, there Just a very bad fit with my rimless prescription glasses. Removing the nose piece helped get them closer to my face which helped abit with the problem of each eye Being able to see the other eyes lens, only downside was the glasses NOW sit further down my nose/face so resulting in my own glasses not covering the whole Length of the Omega Glasses lens area and I can now see the lens lower rim/edge of my own rimless prescription glasses lens.
Getting thumb prints on the lens after a relative was checking out the 3d and mistakenly stood up before removing the glasses, which made the glasses fall off her face, her instant reaction was to grab the glasses, hence the thumb prints. Tried cleaning them with a Screen cloth and even an alcohol wipe (not sure if that was right thing to do or not?) resulted in a very slight foggy look to them when wearing them.
I have got 3 pair, so just means one family member will have to have the slight foggy ones, I just won't tell them wink.gif

Am Still Very greatful ( As much as the above Statement may not sound like it ) for you sharing your expertise AND bringing your Omega kit to the masses mate and it can only get bigger and better when you come out with the "MARK 2" Omega 3d Design kit.
Like you say, the Glasses were made for Cinema goers and not us Fussy home cinema geeks. wink.gif
I've ONLY just FINALLY got my projector shelf fitted to sit both w1070 onto, A temp cheap 113" screen (not bolted upto wall yet)
Once Christmas and New year are out of the way (BAH HUMBUG!!) My Bedroom, come lightly and wrongly coloured Cinema room WILL get finished.
Fingerscrossed your new and better filter and glasses kit will be same or close to the price of the now "MARK 1" KIT?
InlineTwin's Avatar InlineTwin 06:40 PM 12-13-2013
Comfort is only part of the issue. The viewing window in the glasses is very small compared to what, at my house, we are used to. The glasses become an obstacle to viewing. I'm surprised you had not been given this feedback since it is the first thing my wife and daughter commented on and frankly I feel it is not great. The polarized glasses give a much larger viewing window so with the direct comparison it was the most obvious difference, I think. Personally, I like not seeing the frame edges when watching so I can easily forget I am wearing them.

I did not try out the system since it was a moot point; and it may be a better technical system but performance of ghosting levels means very little when the viewers won't wear the glasses. I hope this feedback helps you develop a better product and maybe something I can use in the future.
InlineTwin's Avatar InlineTwin 06:48 PM 12-13-2013
I am also trying to be friendly and provide credible feedback. I don't know if that is coming across. I hope you can do some good work from it motorman45. smile.gif
motorman45's Avatar motorman45 08:08 PM 12-13-2013
thank you for being friendly about it. honestly i have not had negative feedback on the eyewear other than it not fitting smaller heads. $40,000 was spent on designing that frame and although not perfect it is quite a challenge to make a reflective optical filter system perform as good as ours dose. some of the features were driven by mass production needs, like the shape of the lens being the same for both eyes to save half a dollar per lens blank. in an ideal situation we were going to make designer eye wear for the system and it would sell for $100 a pair. glad we didnt go that far.
what would be addressed in a re design is quite involved as taking into account a range of head shapes and inter ocular distance for different people and make the optical filters still have no ghosting and minimize reflections all at the same time.
i have volumes of studies and extensive testing data on how to perfect the design given a range of face geometry. i will certainly do my best to make something better just as i am making a better optical system ( a different challenge than the frames )
imbloodyskint's Avatar imbloodyskint 05:58 AM 12-14-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by InlineTwin View Post

I did not try out the system since it was a moot point; and it may be a better technical system but performance of ghosting levels means very little when the viewers won't wear the glasses. I hope this feedback helps you develop a better product and maybe something I can use in the future.

I think you are doing yourself a disservice in not even tryin the omega 3d system mate. While my problem is down to wearing glasses, which will be a problem for me no matter what 3d glasses I wear. The few friends who are not optically challenged as me have tried and can confirm the 3d effect is amazing. If I had Bigger lens on my rimless prescription glasses it wouldn't be as much of a problem.

I even had slight fitment issue's with the optoma 3d glasses (which are rated very high)BUT, What helped was there large lenses. Omega's were made for the mass market and made as cheap as possible for the masses. Imagine tryin to sell them to the cinema owners if the glasses were $100 a pair and they had to buy say 200-300 pair per screen for the odd 3d movie that came out and how would you stop people from taking them home or even breaking them, resulting in having to replace at $100 a pop.

For now and the near future, the tv owners are very lucky when it comes to 3d, in that they will have glasses free 3d ALOT sooner then us projector guys (if we even get it) which I Base on what I have read over the last 2-3months.
Then there is the 4k TV, and even 8k in the Distant future, which can only will go ALONG WAY in helping the acceptance of 3d by the masses. For us of the projector world who are not rich, (SONY 4K PROJECTORS x 2 = £18k/$??k) For me, the omega systems is the best we can have for now. The "MARK 2" Setup can only make it even better.
InlineTwin's Avatar InlineTwin 09:10 AM 12-14-2013
I appreciate what you are saying....but it is not just me here so I need to keep the natives happy. I think if you had the experience the other way round you would understand the perspective here as well. cool.gif
motorman45's Avatar motorman45 11:21 AM 12-14-2013
if you were to try the system out you would find that the field of view is more than enough unless you are sitting too close to a large screen. the frame dose not get in the way of seeing a 110 " screen at 80" from the screen. the main reason people like our system is that the image quality and complete lack of ghosting not only gives an amazing 3d effect it also has the least eye strain of all the 3d systems.
the system was not only good enough from our public testing, it got the approval of Disney, no small task, and we had a deal with Barco, Cristie and Sony. if you got the system off ebay you can return it if not satisfied within the stated time limit.
our lens and fov is actually larger than the one in Dolby / infitec 3d system.
12GAGE's Avatar 12GAGE 04:42 PM 12-14-2013
I wonder if there is any option to take the lenses out of the current glasses and mount them in some custom frames. After 6 months with the system, I can say that the glasses perform very well. The aesthetics however are not the best, but I think you are limited in what can be done. From what I have seen most people have issues with wearing glasses to watch movies period. I think that the glasses although they are the least impressive part of the system; the 3D quality is unmatched.
imbloodyskint's Avatar imbloodyskint 04:49 PM 12-14-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12GAGE View Post

I wonder if there is any option to take the lenses out of the current glasses and mount them in some custom frames. After 6 months with the system, I can say that the glasses perform very well. The aesthetics however are not the best, but I think you are limited in what can be done. From what I have seen most people have issues with wearing glasses to watch movies period. I think that the glasses although they are the least impressive part of the system; the 3D quality is unmatched.
Totally agree. The lenses can be popped out easy. One of those clip systems used to fit tinted lenses to glasses night work for me if I could somehow safely attach the omega lenses to the clip mechanism??
Master Chef's Avatar Master Chef 09:52 PM 12-14-2013
Woohoo! Complete success!

Using two ViewSonic Pro8200's, two Optoma 3D-XL's, and the Omega 3D system, I now have the ultimate home 3D experience. The Pro8200's work beautifully, as they have a seven segment red, green, blue, red, yellow, cyan, blue color wheel. I used the calibration DVD provided by AVS found here. That calibration DVD actually has a magenta, red, yellow, greeen, cyan, and blue color pattern that ranges from black to said color in 10% increments, and the projectors have individual color calibration each of those colors with hue, saturation, and gain settings. So I was able to fine tune every color across the contrast scale. It was wonderful! It IS wonderful! Boom shakalaka, baby!!!
Vaan Janne's Avatar Vaan Janne 08:20 AM 12-15-2013
When you say motoman you are maby launching a new set of filtters. better for all.
This means even with dlp you propably should get better color balance ?
im battling between older hd82 and never low cost optoma. hd25e ect. I just learned the hd82 does not have the new cms color system
where you can adjust the yellow, cyan + magenta also instead of just red green and blue.
I assume with this omega set it is a great advantage in terms of color balance and getting it closer to a match and having the CMS ?
Im in the same line with blackshark about how critical it is. not in terms of 3d effect but viewing pleasure. If the colors don´t match i for example
have the feeling all the time about, hey this picture is awsome, but there just something off, but i can´t seem to put my finger on it.
Ofcourse every eye is different and some don´t even see the rbe effect.
Vaan Janne's Avatar Vaan Janne 08:41 AM 12-15-2013
im some post here also was discussion about LED projectors. how would the http://www.viewsonic.com/us/pro9000.html
perform with your filtters ? and which set, dlp or lcd ?

by the way, im more exited about the hd82 than the hd25e because of the faster color wheel, i would propably get some results with
the older dlp filtters i own but i would get even better results with the new ones you got comming. ? allthough i would now have nothing but
the color, hue and bias adjustments of the red, green and blu collors.
spectrogj's Avatar spectrogj 11:53 AM 12-15-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by InlineTwin View Post

Actually please tell us you are changing the glasses! I just purchased the filter system and my family rejected wearing the glasses. We have been using a linear polarizer system with nice big lens, lightweight glasses they practically disappear from the viewing frame...The glasses with this kit were unacceptable to the locals here :/ I didn't even get it all the way out the of the box before it was vocally made clear to me I wasted the money on this kit. I still want a better performing system than the polarizers offer, but the human factors must be considered. If there is any opportunity to improve the human interface point I would jump on it.
doubt it the color points will be different

Have you tried the system?
It works much better than anything I have seen.
There is no flicker, no headache, no ghosting.
I recently sat through two hours of 3D Nitro Circus with Omega 3D, and it was AWESOME!!

The glasses were designed to work, not be fashionable, the new frame will be more sleek but cost may increase.
spectrogj's Avatar spectrogj 11:58 AM 12-15-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12GAGE View Post

I wonder if there is any option to take the lenses out of the current glasses and mount them in some custom frames. After 6 months with the system, I can say that the glasses perform very well. The aesthetics however are not the best, but I think you are limited in what can be done. From what I have seen most people have issues with wearing glasses to watch movies period. I think that the glasses although they are the least impressive part of the system; the 3D quality is unmatched.

The glasses were designed to work and create an experience in Movie theaters.
Swapping them into different frames wont work unless you understand the engineering behind them.
They are not Sunglasses from the $ store.
3D Quality unmatched sounds pretty good.
spectrogj's Avatar spectrogj 12:03 PM 12-15-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by imbloodyskint View Post

Totally agree. The lenses can be popped out easy. One of those clip systems used to fit tinted lenses to glasses night work for me if I could somehow safely attach the omega lenses to the clip mechanism??

popping the lenses out and using clips and the like will create problems like back reflections an stray light ,and ocular distance will be changed.
The new frame is in testing as we speak. Cost may be greater
Vaan Janne's Avatar Vaan Janne 02:02 PM 12-15-2013
Idea for the new glasses....
How about integrating holders for perscription lenses inside the omega glasses ?
Maby using some measures from lenses size that is the most used, it would be then easy to
Manufactur prescription lenses into those holders.
Master Chef's Avatar Master Chef 02:05 AM 12-16-2013
Small photo gallery of my set-up. Pretty standard stuff, I think, but it was tricky to fabricate a dual-projector ceiling mount. The screen shot is with both projectors on. Pretty good alignment. It's not perfect, but I don't notice it at all while watching 3d material. Watched World War Z when I was all done setting up. Looked great!







spectrogj's Avatar spectrogj 06:26 AM 12-16-2013
I love the holders you made for your system, how about a close up photo of them
spectrogj's Avatar spectrogj 06:29 AM 12-16-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaan Janne View Post

Idea for the new glasses....
How about integrating holders for perscription lenses inside the omega glasses ?
Maby using some measures from lenses size that is the most used, it would be then easy to
Manufactur prescription lenses into those holders.



Money, Money, Money.........Money
I think it would be impractical considering all the shapes and sizes of glasses in the entire world.
Vaan Janne's Avatar Vaan Janne 08:45 AM 12-16-2013
What. How could it be so expensive, i bet professonal that is gonna 3d model those glasses anyway spends an extra hour draving simple hlders for the lenses then mold is made. Ofcourse i understand if the v2 is already in pre production and the mold for the new version is already made
spectrogj's Avatar spectrogj 11:22 AM 12-16-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaan Janne View Post

What. How could it be so expensive, i bet professonal that is gonna 3d model those glasses anyway spends an extra hour draving simple hlders for the lenses then mold is made. Ofcourse i understand if the v2 is already in pre production and the mold for the new version is already made



New Molds cost $6000.00 for prototypes and then production is usually in the 1000's if not 10,000's for glasses.

not likely to happen any time soon
Vaan Janne's Avatar Vaan Janne 12:23 PM 12-16-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by spectrogj View Post

Money, Money, Money.........Money
I think it would be impractical considering all the shapes and sizes of glasses in the entire world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spectrogj View Post

New Molds cost $6000.00 for prototypes and then production is usually in the 1000's if not 10,000's for glasses.

not likely to happen any time soon

You propably missed the post where motoman talks about maby releasing new version of the filtters and the old glasses are not compatible with his maby upcoming new filters. You think he is gonna release just the filtters and then we stare t those filtters instead of 3d because we don't have compatible glasses ? Yeah i know everything nowdays costs a small fortune.
spectrogj's Avatar spectrogj 01:04 PM 12-16-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaan Janne View Post


You propably missed the post where motoman talks about maby releasing new version of the filtters and the old glasses are not compatible with his maby upcoming new filters. You think he is gonna release just the filtters and then we stare t those filtters instead of 3d because we don't have compatible glasses ? Yeah i know everything nowdays costs a small fortune.

The new glasses version will fit in the existing frames as well as the new frame and the projector filters will also fit in their existing mounts.
Vaan Janne's Avatar Vaan Janne 01:58 PM 12-16-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by spectrogj View Post

The new glasses version will fit in the existing frames as well as the new frame and the projector filters will also fit in their existing mounts.

i was under the impression motoman blabed something about pissible new frames.
well never mind.
Vaan Janne's Avatar Vaan Janne 01:59 PM 12-16-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaan Janne View Post

im some post here also was discussion about LED projectors. how would the http://www.viewsonic.com/us/pro9000.html
perform with your filtters ? and which set, dlp or lcd ?

by the way, im more exited about the hd82 than the hd25e because of the faster color wheel, i would propably get some results with
the older dlp filtters i own but i would get even better results with the new ones you got comming. ? allthough i would now have nothing but
the color, hue and bias adjustments of the red, green and blu collors.

MOTOMAN any comment ?
motorman45's Avatar motorman45 03:20 PM 12-16-2013
yes there is a new frame possible . no way to custamize to prescriptions thogh as there is no common lens shape. clip ons of our filter wont work. we thought of that a long time ago. the lens blank we have has to stay the same. re tooling that would cost 40,000$
as far as LED. its the same deal as before. it all depends on what way the maker makes use of LED's. the new Sony "laser" projector should work very well with the new system. it makes a near full spectrum by using a laser diode in the blue to excite a phosphor disk. if you try to use a system like ours on an LED or laser projector that just uses 3 color RGB narrow spectrum sources it wont be great. UHP still is very good and although led's offer 20k hours you cant replace them for less than a new projector. at least UHP a bare bulb costs 100$ and you get 3000 to 5000 hours. xenon is nearly ideal but too costly for most.
from what ive seen the phosphore excited laser system may be the best alternative to uhp coming up.
motorman45's Avatar motorman45 04:30 PM 12-16-2013
faster color wheels and csm are always good to have. i have no release date on a new version but i will always keep posting news
Master Chef's Avatar Master Chef 11:28 PM 12-16-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by spectrogj View Post

I love the holders you made for your system, how about a close up photo of them

You mean the holders for the filters? They still need some work. I tried using the omega system with two mismatched projectors before, and one of the holders in the picture is recycled from an earlier project and the other one I measured incorrectly, which is why if you look close, there is a gap at the top of the lower filter. But when I fabricate my next one, I will take a few pictures. And if you meant the projector mount, well, it is a lot junkier than I planned out and barely works, not worth a closer look. :/

Motorman, I want to check on something: I believe I read somewhere that the filters are supposed to be positioned so that the projected image fills the entire filter area (or as close as possible) to achieve maximum efficiency, is that correct?
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