Official Omega 3D passive projection system thread - Page 25 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 10-26-2015, 08:36 AM - Thread Starter
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sorry someone hacked my account and edited my entries. there is no law suit against me, I no longer work at omega optical nor do I support this product I created and developed. I hope those of you who have the system like it, not sure where it will go in the future.
cheers. out
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Old 10-27-2015, 01:28 AM
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So if anyone is interested in a Dolby 3D / Infitec decoder to get passive 3D, here is a rare opportunity:

For Sale: Infitec Dolby 3D passive dual-projector setup
Ag4t likes this.
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Old 10-27-2015, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by motorman45 View Post
sorry someone hacked my account and edited my entries. there is no law suit against me, I no longer work at omega optical nor do I support this product I created and developed. I hope those of you who have the system like it, not sure where it will go in the future.
cheers. out
Thanks for the update. Sorry to hear you aren't with Omega optical anymore. Please do stick around AVS though as you have plenty of knowledge about 3D passive systems!
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Old 10-27-2015, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by motorman45 View Post
sorry someone hacked my account and edited my entries. there is no law suit against me, I no longer work at omega optical nor do I support this product I created and developed. I hope those of you who have the system like it, not sure where it will go in the future.
cheers. out
ROLF i won´t buy that for a second.
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Old 02-25-2016, 09:47 AM
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Anyone know if this system is compatible with the new crop of LED or Laser projectors.

Was looking at getting 2 of the LG1500 LED for a quick 3d setup.
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Old 02-25-2016, 10:02 AM
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When I asked about LED before, motorman said no, since the primaries are too pure (narrow spectrum).
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Old 02-25-2016, 10:59 AM
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Too Bad, Is motorman gone from omega.
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Old 04-25-2016, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by space2001 View Post
Anyone know if this system is compatible with the new crop of LED or Laser projectors.

Was looking at getting 2 of the LG1500 LED for a quick 3d setup.
Won't work with LED or laser projectors

Best spectrum for Omega is with DLP projectors, throw ratio of 1.5:1 or better
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Old 04-29-2016, 12:46 AM
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Won't work with LED or laser projectors
Best spectrum for Omega is with DLP projectors, throw ratio of 1.5:1 or better
To be more precise : Omega is designed for professional DLP projectors with Xenon lamp.
If I remember correctly, the "LCD" version of the Omega filter is a modified filter for one specific professional LCD projector with Xenon lamp (probably a Sony SXRD cinema projector).
The further away from these wide spectrums your projector is, the worse the colour will get.

For consumer projectors which use UHP (Mercury) lamps, there can be huge variations from one projector model and from one lamp model to an other since manufacturers don't care much about their output spectrum. But if you want to try out a new projector nobody tested, the DLP filter with a DLP projector has the best chance of turning out right.

LED projectors change a lot year over year since high intensity LEDs are being constantly improved.
The current LED output spectrum doesn't fare well with Omega but there is no way to predict how future LED technology will improve and how manufacturers will implement them : it is perfectly possible to make a LED arrangement that will output a wide spectrum (like what's done for "natural light" lamps), but there is very little incentive for projector manufacturers to implement one.

Laser direct output provides a single wavelength per primary colour : it is fundamentally incompatible with Omega.
Laser to phosphor is different, it does output a spectrum but I am not familiar with phosphor output spectrum so I'd say all bets are off.

There is a way to turn a direct laser single wavelength output into a spectrum but projector manufacturers will probably never implement this technique because it's completely foreign to this usage domain : it requires high power ultra-short burst lasers (think femto-second) and all research in this area is concentrated in reducing the apparition of spectrums to keep a clear single wavelength (for long-distance fibre optics communication).

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)


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Old 04-29-2016, 10:36 AM
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new name but I decided id see what my old project was up to despite not being at omega anymore. I lost my account access so I made this new account.
I see the discussion is still going on but a lot was done in the last two years. yes the Omega 3D was originally made for xenon and the a version was made for sony sxrd but that is no the product exactly as sold to home theater users. I worked on refining the filters to work with UHP. some Laser phosphor pro AV units work with my filters but due to that lack of deep blue and violet there is a yellow hue in the left eye.
An LED projector could work very well with Omega 3D if more than 3 colors were used in the LED arrays. I was working with someone on this but all that ended. a Laser system is possible with the cooperation of the light engine maker.
the existing 6P laser 3D systems would not work at all for color balance if it were not for digital color processing, ive seen it first hand. there is no native color balance as in the omega filter system with a good broad source UHP or xenon setup.

there are few was to make a passive stereo 3D home system any easier than using omega filters and inexpensive UHP/DLP projectors. with the right projectors in a dark room the extinction and clarity and lack of eye strain is hard to match. ive seen some good polarizing systems but the screen cost, hotspotting, light ghosting and the eye strain that comes with that dosnt compare to a good setup of omega 3d filters.
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Old 05-21-2016, 03:00 PM
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I seem to be missing something... what is splitting the signal out to the two projectors so that each one is only projecting for one eye?
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Old 05-22-2016, 03:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javanpohl View Post
I seem to be missing something... what is splitting the signal out to the two projectors so that each one is only projecting for one eye?
demultiplexer or your choise. Geobox www.vnstw.com or 2 x 3dxl (optoma) or lumagen lut boxes. and others.
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Old 05-30-2016, 01:40 PM
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has anyone tried the cheap epsons ? eu 5210 ect. ?
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Old 12-06-2016, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InlineTwin View Post
<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/480#post_24108699" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>spectrogj</strong> <a href="/t/1407101/official-omega-3d-passive-projection-system-thread/480#post_24108699"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
The human factors were considered for theater, not bed theaters.<br>
Have your children been lying down at the movie theater with you looking through the bottom of the glasses?<br>
I cannot believe that there is no problems with your polarizer system at such an extreme angles either.<br>
They already have ghosting, does it get worse?<br>
Super comfy movie/sleeping glasses would have cost millions of extra dollars for home theater viewing to be perfect.<br>
Shutter glasses are $100.00 a pair and they probably don't work when you lay down either.<br><br>
Sit up a little</div>
</div>
<br>
Taking a step back: I gave the initial feedback from my family to the community. I was encouraged to install the system and try it out by the community so I did. I gave an update on the impression of the system. And it has gone downhill from there...PM from motorman45 the engineer wants me to be quite and not post negative comments. Also, other community members chiming in telling me my opinion is not valid for all the reasons they can come up with.<br><br>
Well, I have been visiting the forum since 2009 and don't feel welcome to post my opinion at all. It seems even modest criticism to provide HELPFUL feedback is not acceptable. The system must be considered perfect! Well it is not.<br><br>
I was motivated by the information I found here to purchase the system thinking it was a huge leap from the linear polar setup I had been using but that was not the case. I believe I gave the overall impression in my posts that It is a least close enough that I would be okay to leave it installed, but as I stated before I am not the only user and my family opinions matter to me.<br><br>
With all that said stop angsting over my posts; I will withhold further comment (good or bad) and you all enjoy yourselves!
I've been holding back making a comment in this thread but now is the time for me. There are going to be differences between people regarding 3d glasses and that is unavoidable. Glasses, in general, are intensely personal and so the diversity in perspective (please pardon the pun) abounds. I'm in the long journey of reading ALL the posting in this thread before I buy any hardware and have reached this now two year old posting. 3D design and 3D printing could solve our 3D glasses problems if we are creative enough. You don't need $5000 vacuum injection molds to make a new design on a 3d printer. One should be able to remove the lenses from an existing omega glasses set and place them in another custom made frame. Multiple iterations should be expected, but if you are a "maker" like me, you will be making something anyway, so why not 3D glasses? Well thats my $0.02. Keep on 3Ding!!

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Old 12-07-2016, 10:27 AM
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The quote failed, I feel like I missed the core of your conversation. What exactly do you think your perfect 3D glasses should be doing exactly ?

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)


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Old 12-08-2016, 01:54 PM
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The quote failed, I feel like I mess what the core of your conversation. What exactly do you think your perfect 3D glasses should be doing exactly ?
Its really my own fault for replying to a comment that is years old. I should know better. :-) (A bit like commenting on the writings of Benjamin Franklin) I finally made it through all the postings in this thread. (I wish I could have seen many of the deleted motorman ones. :-( )

People were complaining about glasses allowing too much room between the eye-ball and the filter, allowing reflections off the surrounding skin and such. I'm particularly interested in knowing the restrictions for throw ratio and its natural counterpart regarding viewing angle. If I've got a 1.5 throw ratio for the projectors on a 10' wide screen (15' away) I can't stretch the room and want to use all of my screen. I also tend to sit 12' feet away from the screen. If the filters in the eye glasses are smallish and the frame holds them too far away I may have too much tunnel effect for me to see the entire screen. Does any one have some stats on this? If this proved to be a problem I would be compelled to use my "super-maker-powers" and design and 3d print new frames that hold the filters closer to the eyes. They would be less universal (only wearable by me) but they might work. Hopefully I wouldn't have to do that. I'm not sure I could get the wife and family to wear what I might end up creating. :-)

Any knowledge out there about Omega glasses viewing angles? Am I pushing it? I haven't bought anything yet so I can still be very flexible, but am sold on passive 3d and really like the principal behind the Omega system.

Also, people talk about DLP/LCD filter sets and how you should only use DLP Omega filters with DLP projectors and the same with LCD. Does that mean that the glasses are rated for DLP or LCD specifically or are they universal? Supposing you bought a small kit with 5 glasses and later need 5 more. Could you accidentally end up with incompatible glasses if you ordered wrong?

Also, also, I'm a linux head and like using Bino and even SMPlayer media player software so I need to pump out video through a multiheaded graphics card. I've set up three-headed Linux systems before. (currently typing at a 3 headed 4K setup driven with an NVIDIA G-force GTX 960) I'd like to build something like that for the projectors but in 1080p. People seem to think one should go with Quadro cards which are pricey. How much card is appropriate for full 3d 1080p 60hz? I don't want to spend too much or build something lame either.

Also, also, also. Does anyone have any opinions about the ViewSonic PJD836HDL Projector? Its in the front running in my consideration. 3500 lumens, vertical lens shift, lots of digital processing like corner adjustment. I have a high basement ceiling and plan to stack two of them, hopefully for great 3d and even super-bright 2d with the Omega filters slid to the side. (I wonder what size filters I should get.)

Please fling your ideas/opinions/insults my way. I'm all ears. :-)

Thanks for listening. :-)

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Old 12-08-2016, 02:10 PM
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A bit more context for my desired Omega 3d system build. I do have a working passive polarization based system right now with a 7ft silver screen and two old viewsonic 1024x768 projectors. (another 3 headed PC, this time in windows and stereoscopic player) It works pretty well but gives some of the members of my family headaches and they don't want to use it. I always hear "No!! not in 3D!!" I love 3D and want to share it. So whatever I build, it needs to be a significant improvement over that baseline. Generally my interest is playing various video files and don't have a 3d compatible blu-ray player or any of that AV hardware except for 7.1 channels of high power, high S/N ratio class A amplification. Four stereo amps connected to lots of speakers/subwoofers around the room (sweet ONKYO heaven but it sure heats up the room :-) ) In my book the sound makes the movie as much as the visual and I've already got 7.1D sound. I'm trying to get my video up to 3D. :-)

Thanks

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Old 12-08-2016, 02:28 PM
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I gotta share a thought...

I have used my omegas for long time. Couple years..maby more.
I have eeColor boxes for color correction for both projectors.
Dlp and LCD filtters... ( willing to sell my LCD versions if some one
Is interestedPM)
There has been disgussions about color balance issues ect.

BOTTOM LINE i don't think it actually matters if you have LCD or dlp
Atleast i got much better results in terms of color balance with my Sxrd Mitsubishi hc5 than with benq1110 ... ok BenQ1110 do not provide full Rec but that actually kind of proves my point. The projector says if the color balance is ok'ish or Bad.

I just sprayed my screen with silver and tested my old polarizers ...
And they have their benefits, and im definetly gonna use them for movies now on but omegas i keep for games.

You can get pretty good results with the omegas. The color uniformity is all over the place and there is balance issues but the crosstalk is about zero, even white on
Black. And glasses are bulky. But Also the none grainines of regular white screen gives smoooth image.
I would recommend Try Sony for example if you have not yet bought projectors.
You wanna remember with dual projector system there is noise from 2 projector so it would be nice to have pretty silent duo
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Old 12-08-2016, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by foxpup View Post
A bit more context for my desired Omega 3d system build. I do have a working passive polarization based system right now with a 7ft silver screen and two old viewsonic 1024x768 projectors. (another 3 headed PC, this time in windows and stereoscopic player) It works pretty well but gives some of the members of my family headaches and they don't want to use it. I always hear "No!! not in 3D!!" I love 3D and want to share it. So whatever I build, it needs to be a significant improvement over that baseline. Generally my interest is playing various video files and don't have a 3d compatible blu-ray player or any of that AV hardware except for 7.1 channels of high power, high S/N ratio class A amplification. Four stereo amps connected to lots of speakers/subwoofers around the room (sweet ONKYO heaven but it sure heats up the room :-) ) In my book the sound makes the movie as much as the visual and I've already got 7.1D sound. I'm trying to get my video up to 3D. :-)

Thanks
Trust me you wanna use bd only all mkvs and **** are total crap.
And for the sake of usability buy a desktop bd player.
I use Panasonic dmp-bdt500 great "cheaper" player
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Old 12-08-2016, 03:16 PM
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Regarding the throw ratio :
Your 1.5 throw ratio is very similar to my configuration (2.40m wide at 3.5m distance). You need to know that this configuration is not optimal. You're a bit short.

If you put your filters in front of the projector, you'll get colour drifts on the edges of the image (and a very tiny bit of crosstalk) due to the light rays out of the projector going through the filters at too steep angles. You can see it in the pictures I took on the first page.
The amount of colour drift is similar to what I get with my polarized setup with LCD projectors and SPAR filters (crossed polarized primaries), just different colours.
The polarized system has green drift in the center and magenta drift on the edge.
The Omega system has yellow drift in the center and blue drift on the edge.
However if you open your projector and find a place where the light rays are perfectly parallel and put the filter there, you won't get this issue. (I never found the courage to open my projectors, I'm terrible at DIY hacking and I am scared of breaking them)

The glasses do not suffer from this issue because the glass is slightly curved.
Regarding field of view :
I wear prescription glasses under the 3D glasses and hate when my eyelashes touch the glass, so I keep the entire assembly (prescription + 3D glasses) at a normal comfortable distance.
On my system, I'm right at the limit where I can see the entire screen in my field of view, but not anything more. If I turn my head just slightly, I loose the opposite edge of the screen.
On your system, you're a tiny bit closer to the screen than me, so if you push the glasses as close as possible to your eyes it might be just at the limit (but the omega glasses don't want to stay there, they tend to slip down easily), but your guests wearing prescription glasses will probably be too much.

Regarding LCD vs DLP : it's only about matching the filters to the projector's light spectrum and intensity. There is only one Omega glasses model. (Omega glasses are not compatible with Dolby or Infitec though)

As one of the very early customers, I tried the DLP filters on my LCD projectors and I obtained a very strong light intensity difference between the eyes. I had to max out pretty much every brightness/contrast/colour correction setting to barely obtain matched intensity in both eyes, and colour correction was hell (touch one setting for one primary colour and all the others break).
With the matched LCD filters, the light output was almost perfectly balanced from the get go, I only needed to do minor tweaks and then I could focus on the colour correction.
However, even with the matched LCD filters, there were some colours that were simply no longer reachable and could not be fixed and other people with LCD projectors also reported difficulties obtaining acceptable colour match between the eyes. People with DLP projectors have reported better success rates.

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)

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Old 12-08-2016, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaan Janne View Post
There has been disgussions about color balance issues ect.

BOTTOM LINE i don't think it actually matters if you have LCD or dlp
Atleast i got much better results in terms of color balance with my Sxrd Mitsubishi hc5 than with benq1110 ... ok BenQ1110 do not provide full Rec but that actually kind of proves my point. The projector says if the color balance is ok'ish or Bad.

...

You can get pretty good results with the omegas. The color uniformity is all over the place and there is balance issues but the crosstalk is about zero, even white on
Black. And glasses are bulky. But Also the none grainines of regular white screen gives smoooth image.

I would recommend Try Sony for example if you have not yet bought projectors.
You wanna remember with dual projector system there is noise from 2 projector so it would be nice to have pretty silent duo
Your projector Gammut theory makes some sense but does not explain everything. The output spectrum of each primary colour of a 3-chip LCoS (SXRD, D-ILA etc...) should still be sharper than the equivalent single chip DLP and run the risk of a spectum cut at the wrong place. Since the spectums are never published and no website tests them, I believe that it's still a lottery.

Regarding the graininess : I have a special screen without sparkles... well ok I admit it has very poor crosstalk characteristics and I am still searching for a better screen for my polarized setup.
The compatibility with any screen is really the strong point of the Omega system.

The Sony suggestion is a great suggestion. The VW45ES is a killer projector for dual projector 3D. If I were to buy new projectors today, these are the projectors I'd take.
There's just the issue of *cough* price *cough*. (2200€ each)
I think I'll keep running my Epsons as long as I can (2x300€ lamp change beats new projectors easily).

I don't know much about the Viewsonic PJD7836HDL. On paper it looks like great value for money. But no lens shift so I wouldn't buy it (I go through the hassle of dual projection to get full resolution, I want to make sure I keep it all the way to my eyes). An other thing is the product geometry : the top of the projector housing is flat but bumpy. You 'll probably need some work to stack the projectors on top of one another. And if you use a shelf for stacking, make sure the shelf has openings because the air input in on the side.
Apart from that, if you're on a budget, they look decent enough.

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)


Last edited by BlackShark; 12-08-2016 at 04:09 PM.
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Old 12-08-2016, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxpup View Post
A bit more context for my desired Omega 3d system build. I do have a working passive polarization based system right now with a 7ft silver screen and two old viewsonic 1024x768 projectors. (another 3 headed PC, this time in windows and stereoscopic player) It works pretty well but gives some of the members of my family headaches and they don't want to use it. I always hear "No!! not in 3D!!"


I love 3D and want to share it. So whatever I build, it needs to be a significant improvement over that baseline. Generally my interest is playing various video files and don't have a 3d compatible blu-ray player
If your friends have a strong negative feelings about 3D, then the Omega glasses won't reassure them : they are bulky and look particularly dorky, and there's no way around it.
Will you friends be polite enough to accept sitting with you when they see the glasses, or will they start running for their lives ?

Since you already have a silverscreen, then you'll have the same dilemma as Van Jaane and myself.
Polarized offers better colour, better glasses, better comfort, more predictability... in short it's better. The big reason why you'd want to use Omega is the bloody silverscreen.
I find the small amount of crosstalk of a high performance silverscreen acceptable, but not the other characteristics (hotspot, strong shimmering effect) which is why I am spending a lot of money trying new materials and I believe I have found some good enough compromises, but I am still searching for the golden gem (the magic silverscreen with high view angles and low shimmering), but so far I haven't found it.
For a while I have been alternating between the polarized and the Omega filters on my system, but I have done the operation less and less frequentily. Nowadays, I hardly use the Omegas anymore.

So ask yourself this question : do I like the picture of my silverscreen or not ?
If yes : don't bother with Omega, it won't solve all your problems
If no : Omega looks like a good opportunity to try something different

Regarding the headaches your friends are having :
Whenever my friends watch a 3D movie on my system, they praise it as the only 3D system that does not give headaches. So I am surprised that your friends are telling you the opposite.

This is because I have spent a huge amount of time and effort on my PC to avoid mis-synchronization issues (which hurt a lot).
That's what the Quadros are : GPU manufacturers only guarantee output sync (frame-lock) on professional cards (because frame-lock tends to be used with genlock : a professional TV/Cinema camera syncrhonization system, so they know they can charge a lot of money for this feature). When using consumer cards, you have to use tricks to get perfect sync and you're only a hair away from breaking sync.
Do you have a reliable way of getting perfect sync ? If you don't, that may be the source of your friends headaches.

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)


Last edited by BlackShark; 12-08-2016 at 04:14 PM.
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Old 12-08-2016, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Vaan Janne View Post
Trust me you wanna use bd only all mkvs and **** are total crap.
And for the sake of usability buy a desktop bd player.
I use Panasonic dmp-bdt500 great "cheaper" player
I hear you Vaan Janne. Thanks for your candor and thoughtfulness. I'll look at the Panasonic dmp-bdt500 and see what it is like. Its kind of wierd having a dozen good 3d blu-rays and no player to go with it, but I have been very computer-centric and have preferred using general purpose products (like computers) over special overpriced boxes that do fancy tricks that quickly become outdated. :-) If the Panasonic dmp-bdt500 is what you say, then that description would not apply to it. :-) It would be simple to hook up video wise but a bit of a trick for 7.1 channel sound. I'm using a THX certified 7.1 channel sound card that is pretty good. I suppose I could feed the Blu-Ray audio output into it. Over time the computer-centric way to doing home-video has served me well in getting me the most out of limited $$$. :-)

Again, thanks for giving me your time and thoughts. It is much appreciated.

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Old 12-08-2016, 08:03 PM
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BlackShark - I'd really like to thank you for ALL THAT TYPING! :-) Its a bit like drinking from a firehose. :-) Thank you. I'll end up reading the whole set of postings multiple times, mulling over the subtleties as I think about my situation. Thanx.

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I don't know much about the Viewsonic PJD7836HDL. On paper it looks like great value for money. But no lens shift so I wouldn't buy it (I go through the hassle of dual projection to get full resolution, I want to make sure I keep it all the way to my eyes). An other thing is the product geometry : the top of the projector housing is flat but bumpy. You 'll probably need some work to stack the projectors on top of one another. And if you use a shelf for stacking, make sure the shelf has openings because the air input in on the side.
Apart from that, if you're on a budget, they look decent enough.
Actually it does have vertical lens shift with a knob/screw on top. I don't think it has horizontal. As for mounting things, I have traditionally used 3/8 inch plyboard but thought I'd go with 1/4 inch aluminum this time to add some thin/cool strength and keep the aluminoty happy. My current projector pair is sort of stacked with one projector one foot closer than the other so it looks more like a tandem install with different amounts of zoom. I thought I'd try that again or truly stack them if I must. If I make the support rigid enough and can work all the adjustments, both physical and electronic, I'm hoping to be able to allign all the pixels within a half pixel precision.

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If your friends have a strong negative feelings about 3D, then the Omega glasses won't reassure them : they are bulky and look particularly dorky, and there's no way around it.
Will you friends be polite enough to accept sitting with you when they see the glasses, or will they start running for their lives ?
They won't be running for the door, but if they are unhappy, I might wish they could. We're talking about family here, my wife and my four kids. :-) And if Momma's not happy, nobody's happy, right? :-) As for looking dorky, I think they are used to that concept, living around me and its not like we're out in public looking dorky, but we do live in a small town. Everybody already knows we're a nerdy family anyway. :-)

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Since you already have a silverscreen, then you'll have the same dilemma as Van Jaane and myself.
Polarized offers better colour, better glasses, better comfort, more predictability... in short it's better. The big reason why you'd want to use Omega is the bloody silverscreen.
I find the small amount of crosstalk of a high performance silverscreen acceptable, but not the other characteristics (hotspot, strong shimmering effect) which is why I am spending a lot of money trying new materials and I believe I have found some good enough compromises, but I am still searching for the golden gem (the magic silverscreen with high view angles and low shimmering), but so far I haven't found it.
For a while I have been alternating between the polarized and the Omega filters on my system, but I have done the operation less and less frequentily. Nowadays, I hardly use the Omegas anymore.
Somehow I imagine you painting your projection screen every month or so with some new concoction, hoping to find the holy grail that you seek. Success to you!! My wife read this and suggested metallic corduroy, a concept that not only should chill one to the bone, it would also have directional artifacts like the "grooves" of a CD. I would think that sparklynes comes from the reflective particles being too big. It seems to me that the best particle size would be just a small multiple bigger than the wavelength of a photon and I would hope would be too small to make things sparkly. I haven't done the math but I bet you have. :-)

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Regarding the headaches your friends are having :
Whenever my friends watch a 3D movie on my system, they praise it as the only 3D system that does not give headaches. So I am surprised that your friends are telling you the opposite.
My wife stated that the reason why people were complaining of headaches was that we started watching too late in the evening and tired eyes were suffering from being kept OPEN too long, not for being made to watch 3D. Actually that announcement is encouraging for someone who wants to make 3D video work well. I just need to start earlier. :-) I'm the night-owl of the family. :-)

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This is because I have spent a huge amount of time and effort on my PC to avoid mis-synchronization issues (which hurt a lot).
That's what the Quadros are : GPU manufacturers only guarantee output sync (frame-lock) on professional cards (because frame-lock tends to be used with genlock : a professional TV/Cinema camera syncrhonization system, so they know they can charge a lot of money for this feature). When using consumer cards, you have to use tricks to get perfect sync and you're only a hair away from breaking sync.
Do you have a reliable way of getting perfect sync ? If you don't, that may be the source of your friends headaches.
So the situation DOES demand a Quadro for good sync. I was looking at this on Ebay (or something like it)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DELL-Nvidia-...H/122249194913

~$150 and used but I could go with a bit more for something new. I've kind of met my limit of pain and suffering from ATI/AMD so I have a bias towards Nvidia. I used to be a Microsoft person over the last five years I've been pushing hard towards Linux and try to use it in as many contexts as possible (where reasonable) so whatever I get will need to be Linux compatible, unless I encounter an immovable obstruction. With the Quadros I read somewhere that Active DVI to hdmi converters were vital and not to use the cheap ones that make the graphics card do the work. Is that true? I'd be tempted to go cheap and then add if compelled by sync problems.

Thanks so much for all your effort. :-)

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Old 12-08-2016, 08:16 PM
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For a long time, I couldn't play BluRay 3D movies on the computer because there is no software that support dual projectors for BluRays.
I had to rip every movie to a mkv before I could watch them. It kind of worked, you can get transparent picture quality if you set the bitrate high enough, but it required a lot of work : configure the ripping software properly, set the subtitles, make sure to choose the proper language and associated subs (forced) depending on the language I desired ( I noticed that many BluRays use the forced subtitles for illustrative text rather than burning it in the picture). Let the computer crunch the movie all night long, and then when you try to play it back you get bugs because the stereoscopic subtitle feature of my software crashes with BluRay bitmap subs, it needs them in text format to work properly etc.. etc...

Then I bought a VNS Geobox demultiplexer that can convert the hdmi 1.4 signals to the dual projector dual outputs and it changed the way I play movies.
I bought a small Sony BDP S4500 player, I plugged it to my small Yamaha V675 5.1 Home cinema amp (definitely not high power but sufficient for my usage), and then an hdmi out to the demultiplexer.
Plug and play BluRays, finally !
Also as a bonus, if a friend comes by with a game console, a laptop or anything video related, he can just plug it to the amp and get instant access to the big screen without having to rewire everything.

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)


Last edited by BlackShark; 12-08-2016 at 08:21 PM.
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Old 12-08-2016, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by foxpup View Post
Somehow I imagine you painting your projection screen every month or so with some new concoction, hoping to find the holy grail that you seek. Success to you!! My wife read this and suggested metallic corduroy, a concept that not only should chill one to the bone, it would also have directional artifacts like the "grooves" of a CD. I would think that sparklynes comes from the reflective particles being too big. It seems to me that the best particle size would be just a small multiple bigger than the wavelength of a photon and I would hope would be too small to make things sparkly. I haven't done the math but I bet you have. :-)


So the situation DOES demand a Quadro for good sync. I was looking at this on Ebay (or something like it)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DELL-Nvidia-...H/122249194913
~$150 and used but I could go with a bit more for something new. I've kind of met my limit of pain and suffering from ATI/AMD so I have a bias towards Nvidia. I used to be a Microsoft person over the last five years I've been pushing hard towards Linux and try to use it in as many contexts as possible (where reasonable) so whatever I get will need to be Linux compatible, unless I encounter an immovable obstruction. With the Quadros I read somewhere that Active DVI to hdmi converters were vital and not to use the cheap ones that make the graphics card do the work. Is that true? I'd be tempted to go cheap and then add if compelled by sync problems.
I wish I could just grab the first piece of cloth and just apply some paint on it to get a good screen. But no, I just buy the material from professionals who do that much better than I ever could. And it gets expensive very quick so I can't buy a new screen whenever I please.
The current screen I am using (XtremScreen Daylight 1.1) has a projection surface made of a dozen layers of micron thin films, it's made in by a satellite manufacturer's component sub-contractor. I have absolutely ZERO hope of ever competing with it with DIY paint.
I'll soon test a new material by the same manufacturer which I believe should provide crosstalk on par with silver paint without the drawbacks.

Regarding sync :
A quadro is not mandatory, there are ways to extract perfect sync of consumer cards, but they require a lot of painful trial and error. Basically you need to find a way to make your GPU render the screen buffer as a single surface using the surround gaming multi-monitor functions (not the regular multi-monitor system, these drive the displays independently).
In theory it should also be possible to emulate the same thing if you use a Matrox DualHead2Go.

On the other hand, if you have a quadro, it's as simple as a checkbox.

I have been using AMD Radeons for years, mainly because I needed the Eyefinity feature : it can be enabled with only 2 screen, whereas Nvidia's "surround" gaming mode requires 3 screens (according to the Nvidia website, I haven't tried to force it with 2 screens).
I only very recently switched to Nvidia because I wanted to use the NVidia 3d Vision software for games, and I could only do it because I bought the Geobox demultiplexer. I would not have tried the switch to Nvidia without it.

I have no idea about Linux support. I have always been using Windows for 3D, mainly because I play lots of games.

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)


Last edited by BlackShark; 12-08-2016 at 08:51 PM.
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Old 12-11-2016, 10:21 AM
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I currently have found out a great paint mix for polarized image. i think it´s about as good as any commersial screen that´s made with 1 layer.
Those multilayered screen materials are a whole different matter. The one i have now has no sparkles, low hotspot ( don´t know how my my curved frame affects that)
great extinction. Only minor down side is the small shimmery pattern that´s visible on pannings at a one colored surfaces.
ofcourse i would like to have a screen that has zero flaws but it´s another thing how much im willing to pay, as the great multilayer screens Blackshark is talking about are about 3000 euros (my size 130") with shipping and my current screen costed under 200 (after several tests and search i was manage to cook up an awsome mix) , and like i said it´s as good as or better than any of my current samples in terms of crosstalk (and i have many) and it has no sparkles and almoust every
sample i have has atleast low amounts of sparkles and every sample has that "shimmering". So i don´t know am i ready to pay 15 times for "small" improvement.... maby, but i would like to see a sample !

I was gonna use my omegas for games, but i shurely don´t know now. I love the fact they have zero ghosting but now as i have a "shimmery" silver screen, i can´t no longer enjoy the smoothness of
omega picture as there is the same shimmering as with polarizers, due to the silver screen. And the polarizers give me lot´s more light and the crosstalk is only barely seen with black on white even on the darker games.

The inside fitting might do some improvement..but i don´t know do i wanna risk my projectors as i totally love them and there is not many left.
I bet one would strougle to find 2 x HC5´s or 9000 from anywhere now days.
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Old 12-11-2016, 02:41 PM
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I currently have found out a great paint mix for polarized image. i think it´s about as good as any commersial screen that´s made with 1 layer.
:-) I'm very glad for you that you found a great polarization compatible paint. :-) Any chance you might let the rest of us know what it is and how much it cost?

Yes, this is a bit off subject I know. That's why I'm keeping this brief. Still, I am comparing active vs polarized vs omega in an effort to make the "best" decision. ("best" being a very subjective term in this case.) :-)

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Old 12-11-2016, 03:05 PM
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No i can't as its my own mix.
Maby ill sell it.
I have some left to make samples as soon as i have time.
Its about 100€/L without profit.
I used 2L total for my 3x1.7m screen

With eye there is even less hotspot.
No Sparkle
High extinction / low crosstalk
Some noise/shimmering

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Old 12-11-2016, 03:08 PM
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Blackshark did you have some crosstalk test pattern to "measure" the amount off ?
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