Official Omega 3D passive projection system thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 772 Old 09-02-2012, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Callsign_Vega View Post

That is what I was afraid of. The frame-syncing disparity between the two outputs for computer gaming sounds like a deal breaker. And $2k-$4k video cards that can do frame locking and are slower than their $500 mainstream counterparts in gaming is unreasonable. mad.gif
Then the eyefinity hack is your solution (just like mine). I use a Radeon HD7970.
When properly connected (identical outputs at the back of the card) the two eye views are properly synchronized.
(will edit the previous post, I forgot to tell about that very important point)

I'd like to insist on this one little thing :
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Be extra careful to provide absolutely identical settings for both projectors, the ATi drivers are very picky about it : if it finds a single difference between the outputs it will either break V-sync or will de-synchronize them (resolution, framerate, bit depth, AND, output plug, converter, projector model). ATi claims they have fixed this problem in a recent driver update, I haven't tested it, but even if it worked It's a very sensitive thing that might break at the next driver version/ next card model. So I'll just stick to identical outputs all the way through.

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)

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post #62 of 772 Old 09-02-2012, 09:04 AM
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So if say I use a 7970, I set each projector to it's own half of Eyefinity and use Tridef, will the 3D work perfectly Synced in all games? IE: not having to jump through a ton of hoops to get it to work. Do the GPU outputs have to be identical (IE 2x DVI)? I don't see any 7970's that have 2x HDMI outputs and only a few have dual DVI outputs. As far as I know HDMI is the same video signal as DVI, but not sure the timings would get screwed up if using 1x HDMI and 1x DVI port on the 7970 or if it's best to stick with a 7970 that has 2x DVI that can be adapted to HDMI for projector use.

Do you know if all of this plays nice with AMD Crossfire?

EDIT: One more thing, is it pretty much required to get projectors with lens shift since the projectors have to be stacked? It's pretty hard to find 1080P DLP projectors (for the smooth motion), that have lens shift and low input lag. I can only find one projector that has lens shift and low input lag, but it's LCD. (Epson 8350). Input lag is a huge concern for a computer gaming 3D setup. Most projectors are horrid when it comes to input lag.
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post #63 of 772 Old 09-02-2012, 09:51 AM
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I previously had an HD5870. I used dual DVI with DVI -> Hdmi passive converters. It was in perfect sync, every time, 100% of the time.
I tried a combination mixing DVI and Hdmi or DisplayPort, it screwed up the sync
In my secondary PC, I had an HD6850, it worked identically to the HD5870, just less performance.

In January of this year (2012) I upgraded to my current HD7970 (nice performance boost), I encountered the output problem though : there are only one DVI and one Hdmi outputs, but there are two mini-DPs.
I had an active mini-DP->DVI in the GPU box, but no matter what combination of Hdmi, mini-DP, DVI and even VGA I tried I could not get proper sync (yes I also have a DP->VGA converter)
I then bought an additional active mini-DP->DVI converter (not the same brand as the one provided in the box, but I suspect they use the same stuff inside), so that I could do dual mini-DP -> DVI -> Hdmi, and the sync worked perfectly again.

Regarding Crossfire.
Sorry I do not have multi-GPU.
I know for sure that iZ3D does not support multi-GPU since I've been following their forums for years people kept asking for crossfire support and got the same answer all the time ("it's not supported yet but we're working on it"), right until they announced their bankruptcy
I don't know about tridef, I don't think they do but I could be wrong. I think ATi made some announcements about that when they released the HD7970 but at that time it only worked under very specific conditions, I guess only for native 3D games using HD3D ouptuts, not Tridef.

My projectors are Epson LCDs, I have the European version of the 8100, the model just before the 8350 (it's called EH-TW3500 on this side of the Atlantic).
Using keystone won't break the 3D, but it will degrade resolution exactly like in 2D.
If you are like me and want true 1080p, then keystone is simply not an option and you'll want lens shift. Using lens shift also makes setting up the picture easier than using keystone since you will be able to tweak each axis of freedom independently. With my Epson projectors I tried both side/by side and stacked configurations, they both work. The lens shift ability of these projectors is flexible enough to accommodate almost any situation. I'm really sad that the newer models didn't inherit of this magnificent lens shift ability.
They work approximately okay with the Omega filters for LCD, but not perfect. I find myself very often frustrated about the colour output. And the brightness cut compared to using polarised filters is significant (I mean the special polarised filters designed to work with the cross-polarised primaries, even if the colours aren't perfect with polarised and ghosts a bit, at least they're the same in both eyes).

I haven't looked at new projector models recently, but as far as my experience goes, if you want to use Omega filters (on a screen similar to mine ~106"), 2000lumen is the absolute minimum you'd want, I strongly recommend a beefier photon canon.

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)

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post #64 of 772 Old 09-03-2012, 02:20 PM
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Would´t it just be easier to output side by side from graphic card and use something like optoma 3dxl or similar box to split the signal to 2 streams than fiddle around with
drivers ect to get the 2 seperate outputs to work without problems and unnessisery fiddling ??
just wondering, course i know how everything with desktop computer relating to audio, video experiences just goes to hell usually when you just wan´t to sit down and
enjoy a movie... you find your self setting up the system for an hour or two. and as the fury grows, you eventually don´t want to watch the movie anymore when you
finally get it playing. or you are just too hyped up in anger that you can´t relax no more.

- just wondering -
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post #65 of 772 Old 09-03-2012, 02:30 PM
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question for motoman !

I see the polarization option no good because of the crostalk (little crostalk is unwatchable) but i think the problem is just white on black.
could you make omega filtters that could use with polarization filtters to cut the highs and lows so we could have near zero crosstalk +
the benefits of polarisation as being the great colours, atleast for lcd projectors.
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post #66 of 772 Old 09-03-2012, 03:43 PM
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That box would be no good for computer gaming. Using two separate outputs on the video card allows 60 Hz image to each projector. This allows 1080P/60Hz to each eye. A box like that would cut it down to 30 Hz per eye and add input lag.
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post #67 of 772 Old 09-03-2012, 04:51 PM - Thread Starter
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post #68 of 772 Old 09-03-2012, 06:46 PM
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I just ordered two Viewsonic 8200pros and the Omega kit from Amazon.com

I have no idea how well these are gonna work since they don't have lens shift, but I love 3D gaming, so I plan on hooking these up to my 7970 MSI lightnings and giving it a go.

I shall report my findings smile.gif
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post #69 of 772 Old 09-03-2012, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
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post #70 of 772 Old 09-03-2012, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman45 View Post

These look like great projectors and will work perfectly with the omega filter set. just make a good mount and mount the projection filters well and at a 90 deg angle to the image beam that is usually ~5 - 7 deg pointing up from the projectors. let us know how it all works for you.

Ya, I figure a visit to Home Depot will be in order...I'm probably going to angle the projectors down 5-7 degrees which should work out well with the filters, but just in case I will probably incorporate the "door hinge" mount for the filters. I have my eye on the BenQW6000s, but I wanna test the waters with these first. I have been very impressed with mainstream DLP 3D, but the cons of 720P resolutions, washed out colors and dim lighting has always been too overwhelming
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post #71 of 772 Old 09-06-2012, 06:50 PM - Thread Starter
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post #72 of 772 Old 09-08-2012, 12:23 AM
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how would this look like if calibrated from projector ?
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post #73 of 772 Old 09-08-2012, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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post #74 of 772 Old 09-11-2012, 06:31 AM
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I found the perfect shelf system @ Target for $11 and matched it with $8 clips from Ebay, which is important because I needed something to hold the filters infront of the lenses. Because these projectors shoot their beam at like a 5 degree upward angle I needed something to hold the filters just right. After looking at $200-$600 solutions I found these clips mentioned in the AVS supertthread and they work great as you can see in the following pic.

This is the best 3D I have ever seen. Both projectors are able to produce full 60hz 1080P and the filters allow each eye to only see what each projector displays. There is no crosstalk, colors are excellent and brightness is perfect, which is amazing considering I am projecting on a WALL!!! Mafia II and Skryim look amazing in 3D on this setup. I have the naked mod on in Skryim and my Hot Nude female character was popping out of the 90" screen like a hologram!!!!

(I never realized her nipples were so big eek.gif )

I have tried many, many types of 3D displays and setups, but hands down The Omega 3D system and DLP projectors are the way to go if you want outstanding crosstalk free 3D while retaining the most picture quality and POP cool.gif

Unfortunately I am having strange problems with BF3 and Crysis 1. Basically, to get 3D, I created a 3840x1920 eyefinity group and have SBS parallel mode selected in TridefDDD. Mafia II and Skryim work perfectly when I select 1920x1080p in game options, but battlefield and Crysis 1 do not.

When I select 1920x1080 in battlefield, one of my eyes shows windows desktop and the other shows the game in 1920x1080p but it shows a split squished image. In order to get 3D with Crysis and BF3 I gotta select 3840x1080 but that gives me super squished 3D as it compresses 3840 down to 1920 mad.gif

I made a thread over at Tridef DDD and sent a support request to their staff. Hopefully a solution can be found.

Clipsinaction.jpg






I even tried stacking my dogs, but that still did not help BF3 or Crysis 1 tongue.gif
Doublestack.jpg
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post #75 of 772 Old 09-11-2012, 12:16 PM
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i see only lcd filtters sold on ebay, are the filtters now compatible with both, lcd and dlp ?


Anyone not finding omega filtters good for their purposes im interested on changin omega filtters for high quality linear polarizers, send me private message.
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post #76 of 772 Old 09-11-2012, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
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post #77 of 772 Old 09-21-2012, 09:41 AM
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I'm late in jointing this thread.

I am familiar with the Dolby system. I have used it, on a test basis.

I am familiar with dual projectors; I run a homemade 3D system I made for a community theater using Real circular polarizers, dual projectors, and a 25' wide silvered screen since October 2010. It's big enough that I have 100 pair of glasses....

I did NOT know about the Omega system. Now it looks like the rug has been pulled out. Does anyone have any contacts where I could get a few dozen pair of glasses and some filters to try this out? I also run a 3D Drive-In (summer only) and I can tell you polarization doesn't do too well through windshields. Besides, I have an idea system to test with.

I do use DDD for the theater by the way. I do wish they would support a thrid display as a terminal view... perhaps someday.

Any contacts I can get would be appreciated. I doubt very much all the glasses were sold.
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post #78 of 772 Old 09-21-2012, 09:42 AM
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BTW, my current theater is at www.friendsfamilytheater.com
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post #79 of 772 Old 09-21-2012, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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post #80 of 772 Old 09-21-2012, 11:23 AM
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I have differing projectors depending on the application. For the Drive-In I use a Christie LW40 with a long throw lens. I'm looking for a second, but the lenses for large venue Sanyo based projectors are very expensive. For the 3D, I have been using a matched pair of Proxima 9270's. They are a LOT dimmer (2500 vs. 4000 lumens) but in a real theater situation, they are bright enough. I use a pair of 4" circular polarizers (square, plastic), and Real glasses. There are guidelines on lumens per square inch of filter for projection, and with the 4000 lumen projector I would be at the limt. The screen was donated; it is 25' wide and 16' high, and $7 US a square foot. Without a silvered screen, Real won't work. The low cost of Real glasses was what pushed me that direction instead of Dolby/Infitec or the Korean company with 6 color Anaglyph (I can't remember that company name). When you work with the tiny budget, you use what you can afford. I find about 5% of my glasses are damaged each showing. The rest are machine washed and reused. I assume your glasses are washable too. They are expensive enough. smile.gif The system you are selling has is interesting, but expensive.

I am curious of any more info on your system. Papers on the system, or a patent would tell a lot. I tried to patent a general multi-color anaglyph photo system, but they only granted it for auto use. Hey, it's Ford; what can you expect. It worked OK for Dolby. US20090033910 if you want a look.

Larry Elie
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post #81 of 772 Old 09-21-2012, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
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post #82 of 772 Old 09-21-2012, 02:37 PM
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So I've got a question, a couple weeks a go I went to a 3D movie at a (former?) IMAX, to see Tornado Alley 3D (somewhat disappointing IMO). But they were using a Dolby 3D system, and I was less than impressed with that:
It seemed to have color shift depending on how you looked through the glasses.
The glasses didn't fit well and I had to hold up.
The lenses in the glasses were too small.

Basically if I had my eye glasses on, they wouldn't stay high enough on my face so I'd have to hold them up, and the added distance from my eyes meant they were actually too small to fit the whole screen. So I actually watched most of the movie without my eye glasses (my astigmatism is slight enough that I don't need glasses but I have them for important stuff like watching movies biggrin.gif).

I guess I'm kind of curious how the Omega DD3D compares, does the color appear different as you look around the glasses (different angles to the glass/filters)? Looking at the pictures on Amazon, it looks like there's some color shift towards the edges.
How do the glasses physically compare to Dolby 3D glasses, they look similar, similarly small glass and similarly uncomfortable perhaps?

I'm mainly curious because I keep hearing good things here on AVS, and forgive me if someone already did this more practical (as opposed to the technical explanation earlier in the thread) comparison.


Oh, and any though about making some glasses with both left and both right filters to allow the dual-fullscreen multiplayer gaming that people are starting to talk about?
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post #83 of 772 Old 09-21-2012, 05:58 PM - Thread Starter
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post #84 of 772 Old 09-21-2012, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
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not sure what you mean about both left and both right for gaming. do you mean so one can watch a 3D in 2D ?

There's been talk from a few manufacturers this year of flat panels implementing "full screen" multiplayer modes. Since those TVs are active, they basically take two fullscreen feeds and alternate them, and then in the glasses, instead of alternating each eye, they flash both at the same time, so two people can play side by side, but each see their own full screen image. It would actually be more compatible with a dual projector setup, since you could just run two sources, one to each projector, and then you each just wear the correct filters for your projector and you both get a full screen instead of a split screen.
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that is easily done by swithching a set of lenses.

Cool to know, not that I'll probably do it since I'd need a second Xbox and an extra copy of whatever games.

I was thinking when I saw the info on the new Acer K750 that a dual K750+DD3D system could be a pretty sweet, and relatively inexpensive system.
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post #85 of 772 Old 09-21-2012, 09:57 PM - Thread Starter
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post #86 of 772 Old 09-22-2012, 06:30 AM
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the Christie is a great unit if you could find another, the throw is somewhat important with our filter system, its best at a 2:1 ratio, it can work in shorter throw down to 1.5:1 but you can get slight edge color variation in short throw setups.
i realize that polarizers are appealing due to the price of glasses, with our chromatic 3d system one dosnt need a silver screen saving one there, the glasses are designed to be washed in a dishwasher. just dont have hard water. the lenses are anneled saftey glass with the dielectric coating on them. the glasses should last a very long time.
here is a couple of videos that have some info.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiWf_69xHW0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ziuTZQx7dg
the system is a ten band chromatic separation filter system that has even energy balance, total extiction , no ghosting and full color in each eye depending on the projector source. with the xenon lamps you have it will function very well.
i have never seen the Korean 6 band sysem. i will have to look for that. as for your patent its interesting but im not sure i understand it. i guess i would need to understand the spectral performance to see how it works. very cool though.
setting you up with a 100 sets of glasses could be done reasonably. if youd like to try it the kit would get you there and we could work out something for more glasses. PM me if you like.
B

In house (indoor) theater is 25' wide at 48' projection distance. I can't change that. We already have the silver screen. BTW, I've been doing theater for 11 years and this is my 4th real theater screen. Silver screens are FRAGILE! They scratch EASILY! They have lifetime issues; 1/2 brightness in 10 years. But, I still already have one.
Can you tell me the 10 band widths? I ran a Cary photo spectrometer on the Dolby glasses (part of the patent), and have good band pass data on their 6 colors. That's how the patent works; I match the illumination to the right and left bands; assume there is no other illumination-- vola; instant 3D photo with one camera. The patent search is also how I ran into the Korean system, which appeared to be full theatrical. I can find the data at work. I could have a Cary run on your glasses or filter if you like.

My lenses are 3" to 4" OD; your filter appears smaller. That's a light loss issue. Again, do you or do you not have issues with filter life at high lumens per square inch?

Down the road; say 5 years... I will never afford the Kodak laser projection system, but Sony demonstrated a small scale laser system to the OEM's. To even see if you have a chance with such a system, you need to publish your band pass data, for each eye. I suspect the Kodak will hurt Dolby's future unless they can match the spectra to each eye. Your system will be even harder to match.

We might want to cary some of these to private e-mail; your call. My home e-mail is ldelie@comcast.net My work e-mail is lelie@ford.com

We might be able to pull some of this off.
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post #87 of 772 Old 09-22-2012, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
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post #88 of 772 Old 09-22-2012, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman45 View Post

that sounds like a very cool setup. i had not seen that. it would be very easy to make a system like that with my filters. no crosstalk at all would give amazing two player viewing on the same screen. i will look into that.

The first thing that came to my mind though, is "what about the audience? When I get a chance to game side by side with someone, it's usually a group over to eat, play some games and watch a movie and probably half the fun is watching other people play, with split screen viewers can see both players but with a "2x2D" setup they'd either see both (no glasses and unwatchable) or only one, seems like you'd really need a third display almost tongue.gif

Anyway, that's OT.

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i feel LED is the way personally.

Speaking of, have you had a chance to try your filters with any of the LED DLPs out there?
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post #89 of 772 Old 09-22-2012, 02:33 PM - Thread Starter
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post #90 of 772 Old 09-24-2012, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
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as far al the current LED, no i have not tried them as they are not good as color and if they use the 3 LED/RGB setup it wont work well with my filters

Are you talking the Phlatlight based ones? I'm guessing the "not good" color you're talking about is the oversaturated gamut (which is easily tamed with a CMS) that puts the peak output outside of the passbands of your filters?
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