Official Omega 3D passive projection system thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 733 Old 09-24-2012, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
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post #92 of 733 Old 10-02-2012, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
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post #93 of 733 Old 10-03-2012, 02:55 PM - Thread Starter
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post #94 of 733 Old 10-11-2012, 07:49 PM - Thread Starter
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post #95 of 733 Old 10-12-2012, 11:44 AM
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I already have the filters and glasses. Can I purchase the VNS Geobox G-501 seperately? Cost?
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post #96 of 733 Old 10-12-2012, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
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post #97 of 733 Old 11-03-2012, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
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post #98 of 733 Old 11-25-2012, 10:43 AM
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has anyone tried with 2 different projectors ?
i just ask course i have panasonic ax-200 and i was wondering if it would be more wise to buy the second
beamer newer model like pt-ae4000 (fullHD) and run it 720p with the ax-2000. course most of the movies
you watch it 2D.
And one has to do color correction anyway, to get the left and right matching in colors.
And color correction is much bigger with LCD, than DLP ? (motoman)
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post #99 of 733 Old 11-25-2012, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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post #100 of 733 Old 11-28-2012, 12:36 PM
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I bought the system from eBay 2 weeks ago, and they are amazing. I have Optoma HD 20 and HD200x mounted on the ceiling one on top of the other. I just can't make them aligned 100%, just probably 90%. Are you successful aligning them perfectly? And what is your settings for each projector to work best on these filters?
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post #101 of 733 Old 11-29-2012, 06:56 AM - Thread Starter
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post #102 of 733 Old 11-30-2012, 11:54 PM
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Is there a recommended angle or distance when mounting the filters in front of the projectors' lens? Thanks a lot for all the info. This 3d system changed my perception on 3d entertainment! Watched 2 movies with my wife without straining our eyes. I even feel relaxed after watching.!
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post #103 of 733 Old 12-01-2012, 08:36 AM - Thread Starter
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post #104 of 733 Old 12-05-2012, 06:27 PM - Thread Starter
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post #105 of 733 Old 12-17-2012, 02:28 AM
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Is this system different then the 3D-Evolver? http://www.curtpalme.com/3DEvolver.shtm
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post #106 of 733 Old 12-17-2012, 03:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanderdvd View Post

Is this system different then the 3D-Evolver? http://www.curtpalme.com/3DEvolver.shtm

This system would work WITH the 3D Evolver, all the Evolver is doing is splitting the source into two HDMI feeds, one for the "left" projector and one for the "right".... Its nothing new and its way overpriced.
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post #107 of 733 Old 12-17-2012, 03:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcguire525 View Post

This system would work WITH the 3D Evolver, all the Evolver is doing is splitting the source into two HDMI feeds, one for the "left" projector and one for the "right".... Its nothing new and its way overpriced.
thanks for your reply. But the big advantage of the 3D-Evolver is that it support Dolby 3D now so I could use it on my regular 1.0 Gain screen not?
What are the same but cheaper products then the 3D-Evolver?

The reason I m thinking about this is because I own a Sony HW50 atm but I don t like the dim picture and flickering. Could a second HW50 projector with a passive system solve the issues (flicker and brightness) I have?
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post #108 of 733 Old 12-17-2012, 05:56 AM - Thread Starter
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post #109 of 733 Old 12-17-2012, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by motorman45 View Post

as far as i can tell the 3d evolver is just a demultiplexer. and dose not have image alignment / warping ability. the 3D Evolver is no more able to make Dolby 3D function correcty than anything else. there is no access to the projection filters that are key in making Dolby 3D workwith the glasses at all and Dolby 3D still fails in many ways as a 3D system especially with UHP projectors
. read the other thread here about peoples experiance with Dolby... or do you mean that Dolby glasses free thing that dose not exist as of yet. ? or the audio Dolby 3D ???
the Geobox i have been using has digital audio out split off from the HDMI and is more than capable of passing any form of audio
no matter how you put together a dual projector system it will be far better than shutter glasses.
So what will I need for a passive dual projector setup (besides 2x a Sony HW50 which I already have)? And will the colors be perfect? I ve read that there are some problems with not displaying correct colors? And what is the disadvantage of using 2x a Sony HW50 (which is lcos) instead of 2x a DLP pj?
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post #110 of 733 Old 12-17-2012, 11:19 AM - Thread Starter
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post #111 of 733 Old 12-19-2012, 01:26 AM
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Originally Posted by motorman45 View Post

with the sony lcos system most any chromatic 3d system will not be perfect. dolby system will suffer the worst as two of their 6 spectral bands will be all but eliminated by the deep spectral notches in the sony lcos system making color balance nearly impossible. the omega filter system fars much better with these systems but it will not be perfect. DLP projectors tend to have a more full spectral output and make for far better color balance. jvc projectors that are lcos also suffer from the same issue as sony. a polarizing system will work better here but you will have some ghosting and need a silver screen.
i have been using two optoma hd20's with great results and no need for a gain screen. the images in this post were from those. nothing wrong with the 3d evolver but for the price it dose not do nearly as much as the geobox. the image alignment is fantastic and makes 2d with both projectors look great. again the images i posted are just that.
Thanks for your reply. I know for sure I m going to be bothered with the black level of a dual HD20 setup so that is not an option for me. What if you want inky black levels (like the JVC and Sony HW50/VW95 produce) but also have a flickerfree and ghosting free picture, is that something that is simply not possible for under 10K atm? ( I know you can solve this all by getting yourself a SIM2 3D SOLO which does tripple flask 144Hz but this one will cost 30-40K).

What I also would like to know: a passive system would eliminate flickering correct? How does it eliminate flickering? Is it some kind of system that does 3:2 pulldown and show @60Hz per eye? Or is it just the non-shutter glasses that take care of a picture without flickering?
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post #112 of 733 Old 12-20-2012, 01:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanderdvd View Post

Thanks for your reply. I know for sure I m going to be bothered with the black level of a dual HD20 setup so that is not an option for me. What if you want inky black levels (like the JVC and Sony HW50/VW95 produce) but also have a flickerfree and ghosting free picture, is that something that is simply not possible for under 10K atm? ( I know you can solve this all by getting yourself a SIM2 3D SOLO which does tripple flask 144Hz but this one will cost 30-40K).
What I also would like to know: a passive system would eliminate flickering correct? How does it eliminate flickering? Is it some kind of system that does 3:2 pulldown and show @60Hz per eye? Or is it just the non-shutter glasses that take care of a picture without flickering?

A passive system will eliminate flicker only if it is displaying both images at the same time, which dual projectors do. There is also a way to make a single projector passive with a z-screen, this method still has flicker.

The cheapest alternative to the 3D Evolver would be 2 Optoma 3D-XL boxes, I have them for sale in the classifieds section but with shipping charges it may be easier for you to get them locally. If you have the money then get the Geobox.
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post #113 of 733 Old 12-20-2012, 08:15 AM
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I'd choose different words : I wouldn't say a passive system eliminates flicker, I'd take the opposite approach and say passive systems avoid creating flicker by not doing stuff that creates it.

The source of all flicker is dark time between frames. The more dark time, the more flicker. The problem with active systems is that they have to create at least 50% dark time in each eye in order to create the 3D effect (they split the light between the eyes over time). The higher refresh rate is there to split these dark times over multiple frames so that you don't get a too long dark time in a row. You'll notice less flicker if you see two short dark times than one long one.
Passive dual projectors avoid this completely, since each projector is 100% dedicated to an eye they don't create new flicker.
This doesn't mean they do not have any flicker at all, because dark times do exist on 2D projectors : Film projectors have a shutter, DLP projectors have a colour wheel which acts like a shutter for each individual primary colour (the source of RBE artefacts with DLP projectors if not fast enough), LCD projectors sometimes emulate a virtual shutter by transitioning to black every frame to reduce the blur effect of LCD projectors (my epson projectors have an option to do that with 2:2 pulldown in 24Hz mode).
Most people don't even know about it because these dark times are designed to be short enough so that people don't notice any flicker in 2D presentations.

So to try to make it more simple, i'll say that :
-passive dual projection keeps the flicker the same in 3D as in 2D. If your projector doesn't flicker in 2D, it won't in 3D
-active projection will create more flicker in 3D than in 2D. It might be fine in 2D but flicker in 3D.

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)

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post #114 of 733 Old 12-20-2012, 08:17 AM
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It seems that extensive research has been done to develop the 3D capabilities of the Omega System.
And even the correction for LCD users has been addressed.
I don't think anyone will make the DIY'r system that much better unless you are willing to step up to cinema projectors.
The passive dual projector solution seems the best for extinction and clear 3d and 2d images.
The color balance is very important but not as extremely critical as everyone thinks.
Each eye will experience some color shift difference due to wavelength, but I have yet to see where it matters that much, you don't watch 3D with one eye.
trying to make exact, perfect colors seems to be a little misunderstood.
I know computer servers that address color correction are out there but the cost is outrageous and is not for the retail consumer, but the theater, and they don't get it right all the time either.
The 3D effect is way more important than small color variations that are negligible in content viewing.
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post #115 of 733 Old 12-20-2012, 09:18 AM
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Different people will have different priorities. A colour guru will never be happy with Omega unless it's a Xenon lamp.
But there is quite a difference between "it's only 99% accurate so i'm not happy" and "hey ! something is really wrong with this picture"
My experience with the Omega system and consumer LCD projector is closer to the latter than the former. The LCD special filters do help but can't do miracles.

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)

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post #116 of 733 Old 12-21-2012, 05:00 PM - Thread Starter
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post #117 of 733 Old 12-31-2012, 02:36 PM
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Happy New Year everyone!

After coming across to this thread, I decided instead of trading up my Sanyo PLV-Z2000 (LCD) for a better single projector capable of 3D, I'll get an identical unit (~$500 only) and take the Omega DD3D route. Very happy to do away the active shutter glasses, the impossible color correction with Dolby, and most of all a silver screen!

Motorman, could you please confirm that the small filter set on Amazon is sufficiently large for PLV-Z2000 (a DIY mount will be made to have them right in front of the lenses)? In the spec the filters are described to be 55 X 35 mm, with mounting border - I take it that the border will be in addition to the 55 x 35 mm? Thanks very much in advance!
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post #118 of 733 Old 12-31-2012, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
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post #119 of 733 Old 12-31-2012, 03:36 PM
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Thanks Motorman! I just did an img size mock-up on a piece of paper close to the lens, 55 x 35 mm will work. Interesting that you brought up the aligning filter 90 deg to img point - I'll be doing a horizontal side by side set up since Sanyo PLV Z200 does come with lens shift... now I am excited...biggrin.gif
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post #120 of 733 Old 01-02-2013, 07:17 PM
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Today I tried Nvidias 3D Vision Discover just to get a fresh idea of what it was like to use it, since it had been years since I had. I remember it worked ok, but not great due to the fact that I could never match the colors of the glasses to Nvidias output. I was more curious as to what is being called eye rivalry in the Omega Stereoscopic offering and if I'd experience it using their red/cyan set-up.

Well it seemed to me that the biggest factor was the lack of extinction between the images, besides of course color do to the limitations of such a basic format.

So it seems to me that although I have a 720P LED DLP projector that is not optimal for your filters, that I could still get a fairly enjoyable experience from them due to the claim of 99% extinction. Being that both the lenses and glasses are optimally calibrated to each other.

So the only factor would be a small or moderate loss of color . Which I'm willing to live with in order to ditch the shutter glasses.

So before I buy your system, I'm curious if eye rivalry due to color inbalance becomes a big issue if using a budget LED PJ like the PLED-W500. I would think with good extinction, that it wouldn't matter.

I plan on just gaming, so if the colors aren't as good as in 2D, I'll live.

I do have to say that my projector is a lot of fun for 2D gaimg. I can input a pseudo 2560x1600@60Hz image into it that looks great. It will also accept a full 2560x2048@30Hz signal but due to the diamond pixels of DMD 0.45 chip it uses, text is unreadable unless magnified by 200%. Both are done via VGA.

One other thing, what's minimum Hz output that will work with your system. I can get 1980x1080@29 per eye frame sequential to enable but the shutter glasses do not activate. I can due pseudo 1920x1080 and 1920x1200 at 120Hz, but pseudos are a no go for 3D and even 2D at that Hz will not enable in games.
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