Official Omega 3D passive projection system thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 631 Old 04-23-2012, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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There has been great detailed talk about passive 3D and especially dual projector passive 3D in this thread

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1280393

and some good talk here as well, but I wanted to start a thread here for any specific questions or talk about this method of passive 3D.

The basic working concept of the Omega 3D passive projection system is based on multiband optical filters similar in a basic way to Dolby but has several advantages over that. Mainly no massive color correction that some here have found out by trying to use the Dolby lenses.
Next is the extinction level that far surpasses polarizing and lastly no need for a silver screen as it is a chromatic optical multiplexing system and not based on polarizing.

the reason Dolby is hard to get native color balance is that three of the six bands ( three left and three right ) are near the limits of color perception leaving three bands in the most sensitive part of color vision ( cyan thru low reds ) leaving one eye seeing mostly green and the other a pink/ mgenta. this also makes for uneven enregy balance. now all this is corrected to a large degree in a cinema with the required Dolby color processor/ server and the right projection filters that are not readily available to consumers.

This makes Dolby almost a split anaglyph system when seen though a photopic response view.
The Omega filter system uses ten bands making for more balanced color perception over the entire visible spectrum and yields more even energy balance that other chromatic filtering systems.

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post #2 of 631 Old 04-24-2012, 10:14 PM
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For anyone wanting to do 3D at home I would highly recommend this system, simultaneous L/R images to each eye is the key to great 3D as is a large screen. For about $3,000 you can have an amazing 3D setup at home on a white screen. When I say $3,000 I mean 1080p bright images using two Panasonic AR100U projectors, it can be done for much less but you will sacrifice resolution or brightness. Until more projectors like the RED projector come out that are able to display simultaneous L/R eye images this is your best bet.
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post #3 of 631 Old 04-26-2012, 12:56 PM
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Speaking as someone using the omega system, it is really quite superior. The extinction really is near zero, no special screen is required and the color is great. Also, the customer service has been spectacular. I mounted the filters internally in my pjs. I know the duct tape is rather unprofessional, but I didn't want to use glue and screw mount, while possible, we're too much work at the present moment. The crappy colors in the picks are due to my failure to calibrate and the camera situation.
LL
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post #4 of 631 Old 04-30-2012, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is a new video about the omega 3d system. its great it is working so well for people who have tried it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10xwn...feature=relmfu

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post #5 of 631 Old 05-06-2012, 11:33 AM
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I ve asked this question in the other thread about the Omega 3D setup but didn t get an answer yet.

How is the 3D compared to eg. the Sony VW95? I know that a Omega dual projector setup will have much more brightness, no ghosting and no flickering but what about other aspects like colour uniformity, motion handling and last but not least black level. The Sony VW95 does a very good job on all these.
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post #6 of 631 Old 05-06-2012, 06:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sanderdvd View Post

I ve asked this question in the other thread about the Omega 3D setup but didn t get an answer yet.

How is the 3D compared to eg. the Sony VW95? I know that a Omega dual projector setup will have much more brightness, no ghosting and no flickering but what about other aspects like colour uniformity, motion handling and last but not least black level. The Sony VW95 does a very good job on all these.

the color uniformity on the omega filters depends on the throw ratio to some degree. if its 1.8:1 or so its as good as the projectors being used. on short throw LCD units ~1.2:1 - 1.4:1 there can be some slight variation to the edges due to angles of light going thru the filters. as far as motion handling and black levels that will be up to the projectors as the filter system dose not alter those aspects at all.

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post #7 of 631 Old 05-13-2012, 03:05 PM
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I'm keeping an eye on 3D projection technology for a public projection project. I needs to be top-notch, with a lot of brightness (I will be projecting ~5m wide) & minimal crosstalk - and it needs to be affordable. The Bryteworks Model 1 projector (brytewerks DOT com) with its 11,000 lumens lamp option looks interesting (pending reviews & reliability), and the Omega filters could be perfect as it makes for a much simpler and less fragile portable projection screen. Only downside is the glasses cost for larger viewer numbers (but I guess cost goes down with volume?).

According to their FAQ, Bryteworks have no interest in 3D, but I think they're very wrong - they are targeting film makers, artists, clubs etc, and there are bound to be a lot of people interested in doing 3D. Maybe they're worth talking to about including your filters in a future model?

But if they don't bite, how would the Omega filters work with their projectors? AFAIK they are using a large-ish LCD panel for the image source (design is based on traditional large-panel DIY projectors). How would your filters cope with that (frame size, spectral balance) and the very high brightness? Would crosstalk become an issue at those light levels?
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post #8 of 631 Old 05-13-2012, 07:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _gl View Post

I'm keeping an eye on 3D projection technology for a public projection project. I needs to be top-notch, with a lot of brightness (I will be projecting ~5m wide) & minimal crosstalk - and it needs to be affordable. The Bryteworks Model 1 projector (brytewerks DOT com) with its 11,000 lumens lamp option looks interesting (pending reviews & reliability), and the Omega filters could be perfect as it makes for a much simpler and less fragile portable projection screen. Only downside is the glasses cost for larger viewer numbers (but I guess cost goes down with volume?).

According to their FAQ, Bryteworks have no interest in 3D, but I think they're very wrong - they are targeting film makers, artists, clubs etc, and there are bound to be a lot of people interested in doing 3D. Maybe they're worth talking to about including your filters in a future model?

But if they don't bite, how would the Omega filters work with their projectors? AFAIK they are using a large-ish LCD panel for the image source (design is based on traditional large-panel DIY projectors). How would your filters cope with that (frame size, spectral balance) and the very high brightness? Would crosstalk become an issue at those light levels?

I would be interested in a review of this Byteworks unit. it dosnt actually sound that good with only 1000:1 contrast. the specs dont add up saying it draws 350 watts when there is a 700 watt lamp ?? the integrated HTPC is interesting. i dont see how it could do 3D well with large LCD pannel like that. the omega filters could work if you have two of these and place a large filter in front of each lens but then ypu still need a separate way od de multiplexing the 3d to the two and they already have a pc in them ?? not sure.
for a good looking large area ( 5m ) passive 3D rig you would be better off with some used Barco light cannons, a pair of them and set them up like one of the recent posters on here. ive seen good used Barcos cheap on ebay. mostly kind of large for most home instalations but look amazing im sure.
you can get glasses from omega in larger quantities and for less than the listings on ebay. you just need to contact directly.

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post #9 of 631 Old 05-14-2012, 02:26 AM
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Originally Posted by motorman45 View Post

I would be interested in a review of this Byteworks unit. it dosnt actually sound that good with only 1000:1 contrast.

They claim it's 'true' contrast rather than 'marketing' contrast. No idea if that's true.

Quote:


the specs dont add up saying it draws 350 watts when there is a 700 watt lamp ??

I suspect they're talking about the PC power supply only, in case you want to add upgrades to it.

Quote:


the integrated HTPC is interesting. i dont see how it could do 3D well with large LCD pannel like that.

Why specifically?

Quote:


the omega filters could work if you have two of these and place a large filter in front of each lens but then ypu still need a separate way od de multiplexing the 3d to the two and they already have a pc in them ?? not sure.

I will actually use custom playback software so that may not be an issue (as long as the frames can be reasonably well synced). Or it may need some hacking so that a single graphics board/chip can drive both projectors in sync.

Of course a dual-light engine single projector with similar specs/price would be way better. I would talk to them about it, they may not see 3D as relevant now, but they're targeting exactly the right crowd & if they get enough requests they may change their mind.

What appeals to me about their specs is the very high lumen count (11,000) with cheap replacement bulbs & reasonable-ish overall cost. BTW their specs only mention a 1:1 throw lens which I know isn't ideal for your filters, but they're actually planning 2:1 and 3:1 lens options.

Quote:


for a good looking large area ( 5m ) passive 3D rig you would be better off with some used Barco light cannons, a pair of them and set them up like one of the recent posters on here. ive seen good used Barcos cheap on ebay. mostly kind of large for most home instalations but look amazing im sure.

This wouldn't be for home but for public exhibition. I don't know the Light Cannons but I'll check them out, thanks. I need at least 720p and very high 'impact' brightness.

Quote:


you can get glasses from omega in larger quantities and for less than the listings on ebay. you just need to contact directly.

Cool. Actually I would use them in dark rooms, so the big reflection-cutting 'wings' aren't really required right? I find that the similar Dolby glasses isolate you a bit too much from your surroundings - a smaller/lighter frame would be ideal for that scenario.
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post #10 of 631 Old 05-15-2012, 04:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _gl View Post

They claim it's 'true' contrast rather than 'marketing' contrast. No idea if that's true.



I suspect they're talking about the PC power supply only, in case you want to add upgrades to it.



Why specifically?



I will actually use custom playback software so that may not be an issue (as long as the frames can be reasonably well synced). Or it may need some hacking so that a single graphics board/chip can drive both projectors in sync.

Of course a dual-light engine single projector with similar specs/price would be way better. I would talk to them about it, they may not see 3D as relevant now, but they're targeting exactly the right crowd & if they get enough requests they may change their mind.

What appeals to me about their specs is the very high lumen count (11,000) with cheap replacement bulbs & reasonable-ish overall cost. BTW their specs only mention a 1:1 throw lens which I know isn't ideal for your filters, but they're actually planning 2:1 and 3:1 lens options.



This wouldn't be for home but for public exhibition. I don't know the Light Cannons but I'll check them out, thanks. I need at least 720p and very high 'impact' brightness.



Cool. Actually I would use them in dark rooms, so the big reflection-cutting 'wings' aren't really required right? I find that the similar Dolby glasses isolate you a bit too much from your surroundings - a smaller/lighter frame would be ideal for that scenario.

the reason i dont think this will be a good projector for 3d is that the large single LCD pannel may not have a very good refresh rate or response time for 3d with quick movement. the low contrast takes away form the image
what i meant by light cannons is a general term for projectors with a lot of lumens. there are some good 720p used cinema and simulation projectors like the barco sim 6 like this one for $175

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Barco-Realit...item1c271a49ac

with a pair of these you could fill a large screen with more than enough light. if you look in the thread about the ultimate passive 3d system near the end you will see someone else usign these exact units with the omega filters mounted internally behind the lens with great results.
if you have custom software that can split the 3d signal i would be interested to know more about it. there are a few choices but not many that can demultiplex 3d for a dual projector system.

the "wings" on the glasses have been tested and developed as needed to reduce back reflection. they are not pretty but it dose make them work better. besides if your drawn in to the 3d movie you dont notice or want to notice what is around you.

i am working on a design of a dual light engine projector and hope to start working with someone to produce such a unit. but for now the dual projector setup is great.

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post #11 of 631 Old 05-16-2012, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman45 View Post

the reason i dont think this will be a good projector for 3d is that the large single LCD pannel may not have a very good refresh rate or response time for 3d with quick movement. the low contrast takes away form the image

We'll have to wait for the first reviews, they sound pretty confident about their image quality.

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what i meant by light cannons is a general term for projectors with a lot of lumens.

Check.

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there are some good 720p used cinema and simulation projectors like the barco sim 6 like this one for $175

That one claims only 3.4K lumens? With the additional light loss from the filters that won't be anywhere near enough. I'm after 'stage lighting' levels of brightness (after all losses) as this is not a traditional movie projection. And then there's still the issue of expensive proprietary lamps, which bump up the running cost over time. But I'll spend some time researching the models out there.

Quote:


if you look in the thread about the ultimate passive 3d system near the end you will see someone else usign these exact units with the omega filters mounted internally behind the lens with great results.

If you mean 3dmaven, he also says "I would love a little more brightness" .

Quote:


if you have custom software that can split the 3d signal i would be interested to know more about it. there are a few choices but not many that can demultiplex 3d for a dual projector system.

It's not written yet, but I've done similar code for general 3D video processing.

Quote:


the "wings" on the glasses have been tested and developed as needed to reduce back reflection.

Ah, that's what I was missing. I was assuming side reflection was the issue.

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they are not pretty but it dose make them work better. besides if your drawn in to the 3d movie you dont notice or want to notice what is around you.

It depends on what's being shown. For movies you're mostly right, but I'm considering other scenarios, like (say) art installations, audience participation, that kind of thing. But even for a movie, if you go with a friend (or someone you want to get close too : ), those types of glasses are too isolating.
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post #12 of 631 Old 05-16-2012, 07:26 PM - Thread Starter
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there is no real limit i have seen to the amount of lumens you can put through the omega filter set. in large cinema instalations we have had done with these filters a wheel of left and right filters is placed at the focal point of 7k watt xenon lamps with no issues. to illuminate the largest screen used with our filters so far, two 2k 3chip DLP projectors were used with 7k watt lamps in each and a 90mm dia filter was placed in front of each unit. i dont know how many lumens that was but its clearly possible.
large displays of other kinds like art instalations sounds very cool.

glasses are something i would love to change and improve. but it takes funds i dont have at the moment. we have a lot of these frames made for mass production and cinema use. it was not my first choice in design either. i know how to make a far better frame for the eye optics and have it be less bulky and atractive but it will take time.
i have re-fitted the lenses to other frames for my own testing. in fact there is a post in the other thread with pictures where i did this. back reflections, side reflections and light leaking in from exit signs are all parts of what we designed to block. these being dielectric filter coatings have reflection as part of the high performance function. the right geometry of the optics can go a long way at reducing the issues and minimize the ammount of plastic needed.
it is a goal that i am working on.
if you want a set of larger filters we have them for placing out in front of larger optics. just look for the large kit on ebay or we can customize a set.

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post #13 of 631 Old 05-17-2012, 02:03 AM
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Cool, your filters sound very promising. My project isn't ready to go yet, but I'll certainly keep my eye on them until then.
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post #14 of 631 Old 05-19-2012, 10:09 PM
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I currently use two seven year old Panasonic PT-AE700U LCD projectors with StereoBright 90% efficient polarizers and portable 84 square Da-Lite Silver Lite 2.5 projection screen to show 3D videos which I make to audiences of up to 200 people.

I'm interested in creating a 3D home theater space in a 13.5' by 30' by 7' high basement. I have some questions about how to use your Omega system with my projectors in this space. My projectors are only 1000 lumens. They work well with my polarizers since they are highly efficient. I don't know the equivalent efficiency of your system but need to know:

1. Will my projectors be bright enough?
2. What gain will my painted projection surface require?
3. Do you have any recommendations to follow from the AVS DIY Screen Section?
4. How large can I make the screen? I'm planning to paint the entire 13.5' by 7' wall and use black velvet fabric masking for whatever screen size and aspect ratio I desire. I'd also like to use this wall as a photographic background.

As a side note, there is a small art theater (~200 seats in each of two theaters) in my home town which is interested in showing 3D movies on their non-silver screens. They are talking about using a system that sounds like it might be from Omega but wonder if you do commercial 3D installations with just a single projector. They have just purchased a new Barco projector and the 2D shows are fantastic (just attended a Film Fest of 8 movies there).
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post #15 of 631 Old 05-20-2012, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Tiede View Post

I currently use two seven year old Panasonic PT-AE700U LCD projectors with StereoBright 90% efficient polarizers and portable 84 square Da-Lite Silver Lite 2.5 projection screen to show 3D videos which I make to audiences of up to 200 people.

I'm interested in creating a 3D home theater space in a 13.5' by 30' by 7' high basement. I have some questions about how to use your Omega system with my projectors in this space. My projectors are only 1000 lumens. They work well with my polarizers since they are highly efficient. I don't know the equivalent efficiency of your system but need to know:

1. Will my projectors be bright enough?
2. What gain will my painted projection surface require?
3. Do you have any recommendations to follow from the AVS DIY Screen Section?
4. How large can I make the screen? I'm planning to paint the entire 13.5' by 7' wall and use black velvet fabric masking for whatever screen size and aspect ratio I desire. I'd also like to use this wall as a photographic background.

As a side note, there is a small art theater (~200 seats in each of two theaters) in my home town which is interested in showing 3D movies on their non-silver screens. They are talking about using a system that sounds like it might be from Omega but wonder if you do commercial 3D installations with just a single projector. They have just purchased a new Barco projector and the 2D shows are fantastic (just attended a Film Fest of 8 movies there).

light levels will be different with the omega filters. the stereo-bright fitlers are an interesting and somewhat efficient idea. but the ghositng levels are far greater than with most other stereoscopic systems. and green channel crossing is hard with some setups. even in their own technical info they state ghosign levels will be greater than other systems.
so to cut to the chase i would say 1000 lumens will not be enough for a screen the size of your wall ( 13') the omega filters may work ok on the 84" Da-lite.
so 1. maybe not for a screen larger than 84"
2. you dont need a gain screen but with low light maybe Da-lite cinema vision 1.3 gain would be good
3. i dont have any threads ive followed on screens yet as most of my rigs are on matt white or even painted walls with no issues. i will start following some screen threads though to keep up more,
4. how large depends on the lumens. ive been showing my passive system on a 14' white screen with two 2700 lumen DLP projectors and even with some ambient light its great.

its hard to beat the numbers of the stereo-bright system but you will trade lumens for no ghosting at all and on a white screen with no hot spots. in another thread back some time all the cinema system efficiencies were posted. i would have to look but the omega system when tested as the panavison 3D measured 18%- 20% compared to RealDz at 15% and Dolby3D at 12% so in that mind we are better on efficiency than most with no ghosing but you will need more lumens as you would with any of the cinema 3D systems like ours.
i hope this hepls your choice. i know buying higher output projectors is not a great thought but for a 13' wall it would be best.

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post #16 of 631 Old 05-20-2012, 06:34 PM
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if i got 2 x projectors (HD33) that has 1800 lumes and 1.3 gain screen (100inches). will it be okay with Omega 3d passive kit or not.
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post #17 of 631 Old 05-20-2012, 06:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by audionewer View Post

if i got 2 x projectors (HD33) that has 1800 lumes and 1.3 gain screen (100inches). will it be okay with Omega 3d passive kit or not.

Yes. i just built a new rig with two optoma HD20's 1700 lumens each and it looked great on a 120" 1,0 gain screen and it was even ok on my 177" screen but that was with no ambient light.

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Yes. i just built a new rig with two optoma HD20's 1700 lumens each and it looked great on a 120" 1,0 gain screen and it was even ok on my 177" screen but that was with no ambient light.

do i have to buy any kind of screen or i can use the same one.
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post #19 of 631 Old 05-20-2012, 08:24 PM - Thread Starter
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do i have to buy any kind of screen or i can use the same one.

any kind of screen will work with our filter system. if you have a silver screen it will just have the normal hot spotting. the nice thing about the filter kit i make is it dose not need a silver screen but it works fine on them.

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okay, that mean i can still use my 1.3 gain screen. if i want a passive 3d , then i just need another hd33 and ur kit. is that correct?

can i use the 3d glasses in the theatre or i have to buy other kind of glasses for it.
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post #21 of 631 Old 05-21-2012, 05:29 AM
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Yes, you just need two projectors and the omega kit. You can use any type of screen you want.
I tried with my old silverscreen and with a regular white wall, they both work properly.

You need to use Omega's glasses, there are at the moment no other compatible glasses.

The light output is strongly affected. I previously used Advisol SP polarising filter to take advantage of the internal polarisation of my Epson 3LCD projectors and the drop in light output is clearly visible. I do not have a light-meter but I compared them side by side.
-Advisol SP (1st gen) rated at 80% transmission
-Regular polarising filter rated at 46% transmission
-Omega
The Omega picture looks slightly darker than the one with regular polarising filters.

I am taking a few pictures of my setup, I'll show them later today.

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)

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post #22 of 631 Old 05-21-2012, 05:38 AM
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where do u buy 3d glass in usa?
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post #23 of 631 Old 05-21-2012, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audionewer View Post

where do u buy 3d glass in usa?

Directly from Omega Optical or their ebay reseller.

edit : here are the pictures :
Projectors : 2x Epson EH TW3500 (euro equivalent to the Epson 8100)
Filters : Omega Optical for LCD
Glasses : Omega Optical glasses
Screen type : Harkness Spectal 240 (silverscreen)
Screen size : 106" diagonal, 16:9 (230x130cm)

The silverscreen isn't required for the Omega system but I lack some lumen so I kept the screen.
Here are a few pics from the Omega Optical system, I removed the silverscreen for these pictures and projected against the white wall.
Sorry for the poor quality, it's a cell phone camera.
All those pictures would need commenting, there's a lot to say but I don't have the time to write a long essay today, I'll do it in my thread (see mi signature) whenever I get the time.


The Omega filters are very reflective, a lot of light is reflected back inside the projectors, make sure the projectors are well cooled to prevent them from overheating.
The glasses are of "theme park" style : they look very dorky and the plastic feels cheap but also feels durable.


The famous DDD alignment chart. There is zero visible crosstalk, regardless of the view angle.

Colours are different between the eyes but with the glasses on, but they're close enough that the brain can merge them surprisingly well without creating eye rivalry or headaches.
However I still do recommend to use projectors with decent colour correction features.
I found this article explaining why and how this happens and how to counter it (I believe Motorman wrote it)
https://sites.google.com/site/passiv...tioninprolog20
Some colours have more problems than others. Here are a bunch of pictures taken through the glasses lenses with a few hue corrections on some colours.
The left eye appears almost colour balanced, the right eye has the most problems.
The most noticeable issues are :
-Cyan is desaturated in the right eye, almost white (mainly due to LCD projectors' output spectrum, the camera picks it up as a brighter cyan, it actually looks white to the eye)
-Red is too dim in the right eye (mainly due to UHP/UHE lamp output spectrum)
-Green is very bright and it's hue drifts toward yellow (probably due to a spike in the projector's output spectrum)
-Magenta hue drifts toward blue (probably tied to the red issue mentioned above, 99% fixable with the Epson's individual colour hue settings)





An improvised colour chart test with the default projector colour settings (just "dynamic" mode for highest lumen output)
Notice the purple drift at the bottom of the left eye : it's due to the high amount of lens shift, the light passes though the filter at a steep angle, I need to tilt the filter to make the light pass through at a more reasonable angle.

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)

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post #24 of 631 Old 05-22-2012, 07:20 AM
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You have recommended a higher output projector for my proposed 12' by 7' screen size for my basement home theater. I must say I really appreciate the horizontal and vertical lens shift feature of my current Panasonic LCD projectors as I plan to mount the projectors upside-down and side-by-side on the ceiling. The DLP projectors don't seem to have this feature and I'm not sure how you align the left and right images without using the dreaded digital keystone adjustment feature.

I'd appreciate your evaluation of the following proposed projectors:

Epson Home Cinema 8100 (1800 lumens)
Panasonic AR100U (2800 lumens)
Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 8350 (2000 lumens)

I can find the Epson 8100 projectors for about $750 (remanufactured). A Projector Central comparison of the Panasonic AR100U versus the Epson 8350 favored the Epson basically because the Panasonic projector was too bright. It seems the brighter the better for use with the Omega 3D System and a large screen width. I'd love to hear your recommendation.
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post #25 of 631 Old 05-22-2012, 07:43 AM
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12'x7' (365x213cm) That is a large screen surface for a home theatre.
Mine is 230x130cm with 2.4 gain, and I reckon I'm just a little dim, a few extra lumen would be welcome. (I like bright pictures, who cares about black levels when my living room has white walls !)
My projectors claim to be 1800 lumen but they're actually a bit lower, the reviews I can find on the web measure it's output between 1200 and 1600 lumen in max brightness mode (which I use). I don't have a light metre, but my projectors aren't exactly new and I'm using a small amount of zoom, so let's assume my projectors actually output 800 lumen but I'd wish I had 1000 lumen.
Your projected screen area is 2.6 times bigger than mine, so you'd need about 2600 lumen.

The Panasonic projector appears to be the ideal candidate, but let's not forget that's the highest lumen output mode with a brand new lamp. It will dim out over time, so for this screen size you might want something a little bit more powerful, or might want to reconsider the screen size just to make sure you'll get enough lumen over the life time of the lamps.

I'm not about to change my projectors anytime soon (unless they get broken somehow), but whenever I'll change them, I'll switch to these Panasonics (or their equivalent at that time) and take advantage of the extra lumen to remove the silverscreen and spread the picture on a larger surface. Probably the white wall first and a proper screen when I find the proper lumen/size ratio.

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)

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Hi folks I have gone through various threads on dual projection system aiming at achieving 3D video through polarisation. Every thing looked complicated with high tech terminologies. People tried to make the things simple but yet the installation was complicated and the pic quality through polarisation lose quality as
1. the polarisation filters are dark
2. brightness is likely to be lost when projected on silver screen
3. The polarised glasses are also dark

Thus the above three factors minimise brightness, colors and overall picture quality. Here comes Omega 3D kit.

Simple to install and the results are WOW
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post #27 of 631 Old 05-25-2012, 10:02 AM
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It is great to hear that someone appreciates technology and what it can do if properly researched.
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post #28 of 631 Old 05-25-2012, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arshad0312 View Post

Hi folks I have gone through various threads on dual projection system aiming at achieving 3D video through polarisation. Every thing looked complicated with high tech terminologies. People tried to make the things simple but yet the installation was complicated and the pic quality through polarisation lose quality as
1. the polarisation filters are dark
2. brightness is likely to be lost when projected on silver screen
3. The polarised glasses are also dark

Thus the above three factors minimise brightness, colors and overall picture quality. Here comes Omega 3D kit.

Simple to install and the results are WOW

Cool! Let's hear more details. What equipment are you using with it?
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post #29 of 631 Old 05-26-2012, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arshad0312 View Post

Hi folks I have gone through various threads on dual projection system aiming at achieving 3D video through polarisation. Every thing looked complicated with high tech terminologies. People tried to make the things simple but yet the installation was complicated and the pic quality through polarisation lose quality as
1. the polarisation filters are dark
2. brightness is likely to be lost when projected on silver screen
3. The polarised glasses are also dark

Thus the above three factors minimise brightness, colors and overall picture quality. Here comes Omega 3D kit.

Simple to install and the results are WOW

There is a good reason why polarisation is technical : it's been used for decades and there's a lot of knowledge that allows fine-tuning the system, and the cases where things don't work properly have already been found.
The complexity increases also because there are some tricks to keep as much brightness as possible which only work on certain type of projectors.
There are also a high number of projection experts who have tried it and published their findings over the years.
You could still try it the simple way by taking a random pair of projectors, a pair of filters and a 3D certified silverscreen, it would work, but not be optimal.

The omega system is new, we start with a clean slate : so we just put the filters in front of the projectors and see how it goes. You seem to believe the results are perfect and that Omega is all great : it isn't the case, there are some problems which have to be identified, understood and corrected.
From what we have currently discovered, the Omega system is going to require technical knowledge that is much more difficult to grasp than polarisation mainly due to the price of the measuring instruments.

You can understand polarisation and find out how the projectors will behave with 10$ worth of polarising plastic sheets.
In order to understand how a projector interacts with the Omega system before buying, you need a 1000$~4000$ spectrometer.

Regarding your 1-2-3 assumptions :
1 - standard linear polarised filters and the Omega filters transmit roughly the same amount of light, but polarising filters do have an advantage if the projector's light is already polarised (LCD or LCoS projectors), you can leverage this internal polarisation and make the polarising system significantly more efficient than Omega, it require more technical knowledge to use it though.

2 - Silverscreens are high gain, directive screens, they focus the light on axis at the expense of the sides, in a normal home theatre environment (seats roughly on axis) a silverscreen is much brighter than a standard matte screen

3 - the glasses have very little effect on brightness, barely a few percent, since the light is pre-filtered by the filters in front of the projector, this is worth for both polarising filters and the Omega filters.

Overall : polarised has better colour than Omega (just look at those Reds in my pictures above). Brightness depends on whether or not you intend to use the tricks to boost polarised efficiency. If you do : polarised is significantly brighter than Omega, if you don't : polarised and Omega are roughly the same brightness.
The place where Omega really shines is crosstalk (Zero crosstalk with Omega, but lots of it with polarised) and the ability to work with any type of screen (many people don't like high gain directive screens and prefer matte screens).

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)

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post #30 of 631 Old 05-26-2012, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShark View Post

There is a good reason why polarisation is technical : it's been used for decades and there's a lot of knowledge that allows fine-tuning the system, and the cases where things don't work properly have already been found.
The complexity increases also because there are some tricks to keep as much brightness as possible which only work on certain type of projectors.
There are also a high number of projection experts who have tried it and published their findings over the years.
You could still try it the simple way by taking a random pair of projectors, a pair of filters and a 3D certified silverscreen, it would work, but not be optimal.

The omega system is new, we start with a clean slate : so we just put the filters in front of the projectors and see how it goes. You seem to believe the results are perfect and that Omega is all great : it isn't the case, there are some problems which have to be identified, understood and corrected.
From what we have currently discovered, the Omega system is going to require technical knowledge that is much more difficult to grasp than polarisation mainly due to the price of the measuring instruments.

You can understand polarisation and find out how the projectors will behave with 10$ worth of polarising plastic sheets.
In order to understand how a projector interacts with the Omega system before buying, you need a 1000$~4000$ spectrometer.

Regarding your 1-2-3 assumptions :
1 - standard linear polarised filters and the Omega filters transmit roughly the same amount of light, but polarising filters do have an advantage if the projector's light is already polarised (LCD or LCoS projectors), you can leverage this internal polarisation and make the polarising system significantly more efficient than Omega, it require more technical knowledge to use it though.

2 - Silverscreens are high gain, directive screens, they focus the light on axis at the expense of the sides, in a normal home theatre environment (seats roughly on axis) a silverscreen is much brighter than a standard matte screen

3 - the glasses have very little effect on brightness, barely a few percent, since the light is pre-filtered by the filters in front of the projector, this is worth for both polarising filters and the Omega filters.

Overall : polarised has better colour than Omega (just look at those Reds in my pictures above). Brightness depends on whether or not you intend to use the tricks to boost polarised efficiency. If you do : polarised is significantly brighter than Omega, if you don't : polarised and Omega are roughly the same brightness.
The place where Omega really shines is crosstalk (Zero crosstalk with Omega, but lots of it with polarised) and the ability to work with any type of screen (many people don't like high gain directive screens and prefer matte screens).

You know i agree with some of what you say. there is so much history with polarization so a lot of knowhow surrounds it. the color is better on a lot of the small mercury lamp home systems overall. polarizers are kind of less expensive if you go the linear method.
with the right screen and ideal polarizing filters matched to the right kind of projector you can get very satisfying 3D. but to do this you would spend more on the right projection polarizing filters and screen than the Omega filter system, or close to it depending on your setup.
I guess to some degree all of the issues with color and the omega system are with certain LCD based projectors, some LCD and DLP units fair better than others depending on how the color is produced. it is usually an issue with little yellow to red performance and large notches in the higher spectrums that cause the greens and reds to look different.
the system was developed extensively on cinema 3DLP xenon projectors with none of these issues. the only cinema LCD system if was refined for was the Sony 4k SXRD system and that needed correction to be good, still not as good as any of the DLP systems.
i have the spectrometers to test and refine this approach to 3D, if i had a large selection of projectors i could probably solve the color issues. at one point i made a 14 band system that would probably fair better for the LCD issues we see, and an older revision of the system that had different band placement of the 10 band designs may be better for the low red/yellow output.
when we started to sell surplus optics for this new area i guess i lucked out with my first DLP projectors having such full spectral output. i am able to adjust the color some to eliminate most of the color difference between eyes but most high end home theater units are not DLP, learning curve for me moving from cinema to home theater.
from careful testing in theaters we actually have better throughput than linear polarizing system 18-20% vs realD 15%from my own spectral tests this holds true on the DLP systems ive got but still this is a lot of loss and dose not compare to using pre-polarized light of some projectors and wave plates to make circular systems as far as lumens goes but as you state where we have it is in crosstalk or extinction. its hard to beat the levels we can get.

i know that with some DLP home cinema projectors ( some with lens shift ) our filter system works very very good on color. i am nearing finish of building a new dual stack using two Optoma HD20's built into an studio 19" 12U rack with the Geobox 501 demultiplexer and our filters. from the tests i just ran looking at color reproduction it is very good to where only the most trained eye can see hue difference and they are subtle.
there is little that can be done with some projectors when using a chromatic separating S3D system when the spectrum dose not match with the filter system. on this page

https://sites.google.com/site/passiv...tioninprolog20

you can see some of the issues that can come from all of the color separating filters on LCD system. some DLP wheels also create some problems as well but not to the degree some of the LCD units have at least for this filtering system. it is not perfect for all rigs but it could be given the right partners for developing a new set of bands and locations just as i did for cinema. for a lot of people it is a great option and im glad for all that have tried it an offered feedback good and bad.

by the way BlackShark great post with the pictures ! i think the test pattern showing color differance side by side is good. i would like to try that type of pattern as well so i can take some shots of the different projectors i can get my hands on. where did you get that?

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