Which one matters most? The TV, the Bluray player or the movie itself? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 17 Old 06-10-2012, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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I currently have a Samsung 55" 3D TV ( 55C7000 ) and a Philips 3D BDP9600 bluray player. I am looking to improve my 3D viewing experience.

I'm a bit confused about the inconsistent 3D performance I am getting because some of my 3D movie titles I got sucks in 3D mode, with lots of cross-talk. I thought it must be the TV because it's an older generation but then some titles have extremely good 3D with no cross-talk at all. Then, I recently upgraded my player from a PS3 to a Philips 3D player and the 3D performance appears to have improved across the board.

So it leads me to wonder which one matters most in delivering a 3D experience? Is it the TV? Or a better bluray player? Or actually how the 3D performance of the movie itself? And does the newer generation of TVs claims of better 3D performance really do eliminate cross-talk in all 3D titles?
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post #2 of 17 Old 06-10-2012, 03:59 PM
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The weakest link will determine the PQ you see. For exampl; a great TV can not fix poor quality player output.
A TV with "better 3D performance" may just mean less crosstalk caused by timing issues in the TV's firmware or video chip(s) then last year.
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post #3 of 17 Old 06-10-2012, 05:59 PM
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The TV is the most important link, just as speakers are for a sound system.

TVs that suffer from crosstalk do so at different levels of performance so that only under certain conditions, such as a high contrast scene, will they rat themselves out. In this case, movies with a lot of high contrast scenes will thus appear worse than movies with fewer. A poor anaolgy is a car with a wheel out of balance. You might not notice it at low speeds, but it is still a defect in the wheel, and will rear it's head at higher speeds. Don't blame the speed, blame the wheel balance. That is why you are seeing inconsistent results.

Though there are poor movies and glasses out there, ghosting is still generally the TVs fault, not the movie. This has been illustrated in another forum by comparing the same movie on an early 3D LCD and then a DLP. Because DLP's pixels are so fast, there was no ghosting such as was seen on the LCD. Newer LCDs have been claimed to be improved in that respect, but have yet to completely eliminate ghosting.

I have read of no instances of the player being a problem, except where the player was defective.

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post #4 of 17 Old 06-11-2012, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post

Though there are poor movies and glasses out there, ghosting is still generally the TVs fault, not the movie. This has been illustrated in another forum by comparing the same movie on an early 3D LCD and then a DLP. Because DLP's pixels are so fast, there was no ghosting such as was seen on the LCD. Newer LCDs have been claimed to be improved in that respect, but have yet to completely eliminate ghosting.
I have read of no instances of the player being a problem, except where the player was defective.

Will that mean plasma will potentially be better than LCD at 3D since plasma have even faster response times?
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post #5 of 17 Old 06-11-2012, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Benlee View Post

Will that mean plasma will potentially be better than LCD at 3D since plasma have even faster response times?

A Plasma screen has a MUCH faster response time than an LCD one so in theory will always perform better on 3D. The weakness is of course the glasses which are still LCD!
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post #6 of 17 Old 06-11-2012, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Benlee View Post

Will that mean plasma will potentially be better than LCD at 3D since plasma have even faster response times?

Potentially, yes. It depends on the make and model. DLP beats both hands downs for pixel response and therefore, ghosting. The choice is up to you.

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post #7 of 17 Old 06-11-2012, 11:58 AM
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all the dlps i seen suffer from crap pictures included the new mitsu i owned and i had to sell that one because the picture was just terrible now granted yes you can alway calibrate the picture to be better etc . just saying picture quality is scarficed on dlps
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post #8 of 17 Old 06-11-2012, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by RockmanX View Post

all the dlps i seen suffer from crap pictures included the new mitsu i owned and i had to sell that one because the picture was just terrible now granted yes you can alway calibrate the picture to be better etc . just saying picture quality is scarficed on dlps

You're welcome to your opinion, but many disagree. DLP has an excellent picture, and is comparable to any other TV on the market today. Perhaps you had a malfunctioning set? What was the brand and model?

I've calibrated several DLPs, and the picture quality is excellent, even before calibration. I have the instrument readings to prove it, though one can tell just by viewing. There are minor differences between LCD, DLP and plasmas, and one only has to choose the features they prefer, depending on the room environment, and what one likes to watch. If sports, movies, and/or 3D is your bag, DLP excels because of screen size and lack of ghosting.

Sorry you had a bad experience.

EDIT: After reading some of your other posts about standard def bootlegged 3D attempts, it's obvious to me and others that you're not an expert on picture quality. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1408391/verifying-if-dvd-is-3d#post_22110757

Maybe you should get some HD content. Standard def content looks bad on any large screen TV. There just isn't enough resolution.

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post #9 of 17 Old 06-12-2012, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post

You're welcome to your opinion, but many disagree. DLP has an excellent picture, and is comparable to any other TV on the market today. Perhaps you had a malfunctioning set? What was the brand and model?
I've calibrated several DLPs, and the picture quality is excellent, even before calibration. I have the instrument readings to prove it, though one can tell just by viewing. There are minor differences between LCD, DLP and plasmas, and one only has to choose the features they prefer, depending on the room environment, and what one likes to watch. If sports, movies, and/or 3D is your bag, DLP excels because of screen size and lack of ghosting.
Sorry you had a bad experience.
EDIT: After reading some of your other posts about standard def bootlegged 3D attempts, it's obvious to me and others that you're not an expert on picture quality. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1408391/verifying-if-dvd-is-3d#post_22110757
Maybe you should get some HD content. Standard def content looks bad on any large screen TV. There just isn't enough resolution.

hmmm nope i have blue ray 3d movies like everybody(avatar drive angery underworld captain america etc) else and picture was still junk. in that thread i was claiming they could be burned on a dvd disc i never said thats all i owned i have 3d blue ray titles straight from the store as everybody else. Thats the problem with forums people assume instead of asking i guess i should have stated that i burned a couple just to see if i could put one together then again instead of asking one assumes i already stated if you calibrate the picture im sure it will get better like anything i had the mitsu 73" and nope i did not pay to have it calibrated i played around with the options myself never could get that picture good enough out the box my lg 60 pz750 was beasting again that can be calibrate for better picture as well along with my sharp 80"(working on that) even my friends sharp 70" was better out the box etc so compared to those touching no options at first i was not impressed with dlps i went to the stores(high end tv dealers) to view other dlps projectors etc and ask questions etc and in general the picture quality was bad yes i know they are not set to steller settings i understand little to no ghosting in DLP etc fact remains all version dlp plasma lcd suffer from something there is no perfect tv just in my experience lcd and plasma produce better picture quality with just minor tweaks and i dont doubt you have set up some dlps to produce better pictures. i just joined this this forum and again never said im a expert etc again was assumed instead of asking i have owned and will continue to own more and more tvs and continue to learn along the way so far all the dlps i have owned have been ok. i joined this forum to learn how to calibrate better more knowledge is always good
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post #10 of 17 Old 06-17-2012, 02:25 AM
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Originally Posted by cbcdesign View Post

A Plasma screen has a MUCH faster response time than an LCD one so in theory will always perform better on 3D.
Some plasmas have more crosstalk than some LED displays.
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The weakness is of course the glasses which are still LCD!
If the shutterglasses were the weakness, then DLP would have the same bottleneck and therefore the same amount of crosstalk as plasma.

LCD shutters aren't perfect, no, but the flaws are so minor they can only be definitively measured on systems like DLP where the display is 100% flawless and can therefore isolate the blame to the glasses. From viewing crosstalk tests I have found that LCD shutterglasses' only flaw is that they don't cover the outer region of the lens, it's more like 100% coverage in the center and 99.9999999% coverage off center.
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post #11 of 17 Old 06-17-2012, 01:35 PM
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There is no crosstalk caused by DLP RP timing since the DLP chip is so fast,
Early on there were some DLP glases that were too slow and therefore caused crosstalk problems. Other DLP glases were not 100% opaque when closed and also caused crosstalk to occure especialy with vvery bright scenes also containing dark objects.
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post #12 of 17 Old 06-17-2012, 04:14 PM
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Which has less crosstalk in 3D, passive or active glasses systems?
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post #13 of 17 Old 06-17-2012, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Joxer View Post

Which has less crosstalk in 3D, passive or active glasses systems?
DLP+Active is the most flawless system for crosstalk. But if you aren't going for DLP, then you will find passive to be probably slightly better.
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post #14 of 17 Old 06-18-2012, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by cakefoo View Post

DLP+Active is the most flawless system for crosstalk. But if you aren't going for DLP, then you will find passive to be probably slightly better.

but i thought with passive you also dont get a full 1080p per eye etc so unless you get headaches etc active still remains the path to go. I read over the weekend the new 4k tvs with 3d passive will of course do a full 1080p per eye. no telling how expensive those sets will be
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post #15 of 17 Old 06-18-2012, 11:51 PM
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but i thought with passive you also dont get a full 1080p per eye etc
Sure. That's not what the question was though wink.gif
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so unless you get headaches etc active still remains the path to go.
Not necessarily. Passive has its benefits aside from just the side-effects of flicker.
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post #16 of 17 Old 06-19-2012, 10:31 PM
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And people have reported headaches with passive as well. It has to do more with 3D than glasses type. 3D can really give your eye muscles a workout, and some people just can't watch it. On another tack, my daughter gets motion sickness no matter the glasses type. She has the same trouble with IMAX in 2D. In her case, it's the increased immersion itself that bothers her and makes her nauseous.

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post #17 of 17 Old 06-20-2012, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post

And people have reported headaches with passive as well. It has to do more with 3D than glasses type. 3D can really give your eye muscles a workout, and some people just can't watch it. On another tack, my daughter gets motion sickness no matter the glasses type. She has the same trouble with IMAX in 2D. In her case, it's the increased immersion itself that bothers her and makes her nauseous.

sorry to hear that about your daughter one misses out on some good movies in 3d like megamind etc. But if you cant do it you cant do it right. LOL monsters vs aliens has a sweet scene in the begining with the paddle and ball as well in 3d
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