question about High Speed rated hdmi cable - AVS Forum
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys,

So i just bought the Sony HW50ES projector, very good, but i am having trouble in 3d as the Ghosting is just out of control, and when i play a HSBS video from ( file located on PC, but streamed to PS3 over the local network ) > 1.3 rated Receiver > 1.4 rated Projector the result is an image that looks like the resolution is 480i, but in 3d, i mean it is just terrible. The depth of the 3d is great, all of that works fine, but the ghosting and detail almost looks blurred over again as if i was looking at a 480i image.


Now again, I have confirmed the hdmi cables i am using are 1.3a but they are NOT rated as high speed. I am wondering if that could be the cause of the potentially low resolution, crazy ghosting issues?


The ghosting is so bad that when I close one eye, i see that eye's image, with another ghost image CLEARLY there... like the worst ghosting i have seen.


I work in the IT field with a lot of tasks in AV as well so i feel i can accurately describe what i am seeing. Does it matter that i am not using a high speed rated cable ?


After playing the movie, i need to manually set the projector into 3d SBS mode for it to pull the two images together on the screen. If i do not, you just see both images side by side on the screen until that time.



basically, can someone explain what happens in this scenario if you try to push 3d HSBS through these devices and NOT using a high speed cable, should it just display a black screen, or would i get the lesser resolution that i am seeing here?


I have seen my friends EPSON 5020, and i can say in the EXACT same setup, his displays the HSBS GREAT, the picture resolution does not look dummed down like on mine, no ghosting issues unless you REALLY look for it., so i hope my issue is as simple as the cables i am using. I will be going to his house later to confirm after work.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:17 AM
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For good 3D support, you need a receiver which supports the features of HDMI v1.4. When a receiver supports only v1.3, the HDMI video cable needs to bypass the receiver and go directly from the video source to the projector. This why many of the higher-end standalone Blu-ray players have two HDMI outputs: one for video to the display and one for audio to the receiver.

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Old 01-18-2013, 10:35 AM - Thread Starter
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from what i understand that is technically not true...


anyone feel free to chime in, but from what i understand, the high speed capability that 3d needs, was introduced to the 1.3 high speed line, the only thing you need 1.4 for is ethernet over hdmi. the 4k, 3d, highspeed is all still in the 1.3 line

Reference the wiki for proof



part of my questions was if you need the high speed rated cable 1.3 and if that may be causing my issue ( thought i dont think it is because its usually an all or nothing type deal ).

so my receiver can pass 1.3 just fine. I am going to do a little more testing tonight.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:47 AM
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Your personal experience is one of the indications that 1.3 isn't good enough. Try connecting your computer directly to the projector. I suspect most of the video crosstalk will go away.

Cables rated "high speed" are supposed to be adequate for 3D. Long cable runs often cause problems when the cable is inadequate.

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Old 01-18-2013, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
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I was using a 6 foot cable, but tonight i am going to test at my friends house and see if there is any change.. to be honest i hope it is just a matter of the cable not being rated as high speed. I would love for an easy fix here lol.

I will find out later tonight and report back as i know his setup works fine.
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:44 AM
 
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We've helped with a lot of this confusion in the HDMI section of the AVSForum. First, let me give you the standard link to the HDMI Org. The HDMI Org owns the trademarks, copyrights, patents, standards and first borns of anything having to do with HDMI. This link explains the differences in HDMI cables: http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/faq.aspx#49

What you want to take away from that FAQ is that there is no such thing as a 1.3a cable or a 1.3c cable and particularly nothing known as a 1.4a cable. There are only High Speed and Standard Speed HDMI cables, with some options. All of the passive HDMI cables are dumb. They don't change bits (unless it is an error) and they don't manipulate resolution. The resolution is select by the source component based on inputs from the sink (the TV in this case). The message packet is called the EDID. The EDID tells the source what it can send based on the capabilities of the sink. The HDMI cable will certainly not hold bits so as to lower the resolution, no matter what version of HDMI cable you are using. And, ghosting has nothing to do with HDMI cables (although letting the projector warm up for 30 minutes before playing a 3D movie can have an effect).

So, when you talk about resolution changes, the cable has nothing to do with that. BTW, the pinouts between a Standard Speed and High Speed cable are exactly the same. The only changes over the years have been for the cable manufacturers to connect *all* of the pins. Before some of the latest options, some manufacturers saved 2 cents by not connecting every line but that would only effect your ability to use ARC and Ethernet over HDMI (which no one has implemented yet). So, those are irrelevent to this discussion.

Bit errors in HDMI show up as sparkles, lines, large sections of the screen changed to one color or no picture at all. They do not show up as color or resolution changes or subtle changes. You get a bit error, you'll know it. The odds of a random bit error improving your picture are equal to that of 20 trained monkeys on typewriters accidentally writing Shakespeare. Since the data is uncompressed but encoded, the error effects more than one pixel when the encoding fails due to the bit error.

Finally, to get 3D, everything in your HDMI chain must be 3D compatible. If it isn't then, then no 3D. Just because something says it is 1.4a-compatible doesn't make it 3D compatible. And, in the case of the PS3, it uses a 1.3c chipset and yet is still 3D compatible (as are some Denon receivers, which pass 3D video using a 1.3c chipset). There are many 1.4a-chipset TVs that cannot show 3D. 3D is an option in the HDMI 1.4 and HDMI 1.4a spec.

So, I'm betting that your difference in preceived quality is either 1) based on the stream speed allowed by your network or 2) use of SbS 3D format when the other source used frame packed 3D. Just a guess, since I don't have enough information to say anything else.

Hope that helps your understanding.
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Old 01-18-2013, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
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a lot of good info thanks for that post


All will be revealed in a few hours here.... if i have to i will send it back Monday morning if it turns out to just be the projector that cannot handle this content...
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:15 PM
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HDMI Org recommends High Speed HDMI cables for use with the packed double buffer Blu-Ray 3d format, at 15 feet or longer this is probably a valid recommendation. At 6 feet a standard HDMI cable should be fine. I believe that you are using Frame sequential 3D format which is not a standard HDMI 3D format The HDMI 1.4a sbs 3D format uses 1920x1080 video buffer containing two 960x1080 fields (one for each eye). These are then up scaled for display.
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Old 01-20-2013, 08:58 PM
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I didn't even realize they made "standard" cables. I just had to double-check the Monoprice order I made yesterday to make sure those were high-speed cables I ordered (they were). I always figured a cable was a cable (that's why I buy 'em for three bucks apiece instead of thirty).

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